D claws or Ags

[1dhunter]

A whip and defender have lower slash bonus and much lower strength, while hitting 1.5x as fast. When solo'ing with a GS, you might be able to use your specs on the first kill, and if you get lucky, the third kill, but even without the specials, the Godsword still outperforms a whip against most boss monsters. I just can't see how a whip is in anyway superior to a Godsword against bosses.

 

Math doesn't help a lot, it's all experience. But since you seem to want to compare, I'll use a typical bandos outfit as an example. Bonus items:

 

 

 

Nezy helm +3 strength

 

Fire Cape +4 strength, +1 attack

 

Fury +8 strength, +10 attack

 

Bandos Tassets (K top or plate, I see K top more often so we'll use that) +2 strength

 

Dragon Boots +4 strength

 

Berserker Ring +4 strength

 

Dark Gloves +12 strength, +12 attack

 

 

 

Standard outfit for a 130+ team. Now, with godsword we get:

 

37 strength + 132 strength = +169 strength, 23 + 132 attack = +155 attack

 

 

 

With whip we get:

 

37 strength + 82 strength = 119 strength, 23 + 82 = +105 attack

 

Now, multiplying both of those by 1.5 compared to godsword gives us (same attack speed):

 

Godsword: +169 Strength, +155 attack

 

Whip (sim):+179 Strength, +158 attack

 

 

 

Whip has HIGHER stats, any way you look at it. Specials are meaningless, d claws are being used for specials.

 

 

 

Learn something new everyday! But what about a monster like the KQ's second form, where the defense is very high? Surely a Godsword's superior initial accuracy would be the wisest choice? Sure, a whip should POTENTIALLY have more accuracy, but that doesn't sound feasible when every hit is a 0, no matter how fast it's hitting.

 

 

 

breaking news!!! compfreak made a mistake:)

 

 

 

hitting faster doesnt increase yor strength or attack:S whips bonus is (with that outfit) 119 str, 105 attack no matter how fast it is...

 

Your average hit with a whip will be lower then when using a gs and you'll also hit more zero's. With high attack lvl the speed could outperform the lower accuracy of the weapon when facing an opponent which has a high def lvl... (don't know about that. my attack isnt really high^^)

[compfreak847]

 

 

 

breaking news!!! compfreak made a mistake:)

 

 

 

hitting faster doesnt increase yor strength or attack:S whips bonus is (with that outfit) 119 str, 105 attack no matter how fast it is...

 

Your average hit with a whip will be lower then when using a gs and you'll also hit more zero's. With high attack lvl the speed could outperform the lower accuracy of the weapon when facing an opponent which has a high def lvl... (don't know about that. my attack isnt really high^^)

 

You completely missed it -.-

 

 

 

Whip hits 1.5 times as often as a godsword does; it has 1.5 times the chances to hit and leverage its attack\strength bonus. Therefore, for a mathematical comparison, multiply the numbers by 1.5.

 

 

 

Math cannot be used for stats precisely, though. In this case, it boils down to experience - and I can tell you, from experience, that whip is better. Pure was just trying to argue about the math side of it; I figured I might as well prove that wrong and return the focus to experience.

[1dhunter]

As I said, at higher attack levels whip could be a good choice (Can't test it yet).

 

 

 

max hit with a whip (99 str, super str and piety. no slay assignment and no specials) is 45.

 

max hit with a gs (also, 99 str, super str and piety. no slay or specials) is 57.

 

 

 

Whit whip your average hit will be 22/23 if accuracy doesnt matter.

 

with gs your average hit will be around 28/29.

 

 

 

If accuracy matters (at high defence it surely does^^).

 

whip has 105 attack

 

gs has 155 attack.

 

your attack bonus is about 47,6% higher. That means that your having a 47,6% chance MORE then with the whip to actually hit the 22/23 or 28/29 on average. So with the godsword you have(roughly) 50% chance MORE to hit your average hit and with the whip your having 50% more CHANCES to hit your average hit.

 

 

 

If you'll deal damage in only 1 of 15(pretty low:S) attacks with the whip, you'll pretty much hit 1 time in 10 attacks with the godsword. If you hit say 100 times (that means 1500 attacks with the whip, 1000with gs which is 50% slower) that adds up to about 100*28,5 with the gs and 100*22,5 assuming your not very (un)lucky.

 

 

 

If your able of hitting almost everytime the advantage of the higher accuracy disappears and the speed will be a lot better.

 

 

 

What i'm trying to say is that there's a certain point (depending on your attack and the opponents defence) where the accuracy outdoes speed...

[Obtaurian]

breaking news!!! compfreak made a mistake:)

 

 

 

hitting faster doesnt increase yor strength or attack:S whips bonus is (with that outfit) 119 str, 105 attack no matter how fast it is...

 

Your average hit with a whip will be lower then when using a gs and you'll also hit more zero's. With high attack lvl the speed could outperform the lower accuracy of the weapon when facing an opponent which has a high def lvl... (don't know about that. my attack isnt really high^^)

 

 

 

I was not implying that he was wrong. I was simply inquiring as to whether or not the higher initial accuracy of a Godsword would be more beneficial against an opponent with extremely high defense, regardless of the speed. If I'm interpreting Comp correctly, it seems to be a little ambiguous, but according to his experience, a whip is better. Seeing as how I have zero experience with a Godsword, I can make no further comment. I did however, learn something, as I've stated.

[compfreak847]

 

As I said, at higher attack levels whip could be a good choice (Can't test it yet).

 

 

 

max hit with a whip (99 str, super str and piety. no slay assignment and no specials) is 45.

 

max hit with a gs (also, 99 str, super str and piety. no slay or specials) is 57.

 

 

 

Whit whip your average hit will be 22/23 if accuracy doesnt matter.

 

with gs your average hit will be around 28/29.

 

 

 

If accuracy matters (at high defence it surely does^^).

 

whip has 105 attack

 

gs has 155 attack.

 

your attack bonus is about 47,6% higher. That means that your having a 47,6% chance MORE then with the whip to actually hit the 22/23 or 28/29 on average. So with the godsword you have(roughly) 50% chance MORE to hit your average hit and with the whip your having 50% more CHANCES to hit your average hit.

 

 

 

If you'll deal damage in only 1 of 15(pretty low:S) attacks with the whip, you'll pretty much hit 1 time in 10 attacks with the godsword. If you hit say 100 times (that means 1500 attacks with the whip, 1000with gs which is 50% slower) that adds up to about 100*28,5 with the gs and 100*22,5 assuming your not very (un)lucky.

 

 

 

If your able of hitting almost everytime the advantage of the higher accuracy disappears and the speed will be a lot better.

 

 

 

What i'm trying to say is that there's a certain point (depending on your attack and the opponents defence) where the accuracy outdoes speed...

 

But you messed up your numbers. The fact is, whip has HIGHER accuracy and HIGHER strength. Any way you look at it mathematically shows the whip to be significantly better.

[1dhunter]

 

As I said, at higher attack levels whip could be a good choice (Can't test it yet).

 

 

 

max hit with a whip (99 str, super str and piety. no slay assignment and no specials) is 45.

 

max hit with a gs (also, 99 str, super str and piety. no slay or specials) is 57.

 

 

 

Whit whip your average hit will be 22/23 if accuracy doesnt matter.

 

with gs your average hit will be around 28/29.

 

 

 

If accuracy matters (at high defence it surely does^^).

 

whip has 105 attack

 

gs has 155 attack.

 

your attack bonus is about 47,6% higher. That means that your having a 47,6% chance MORE then with the whip to actually hit the 22/23 or 28/29 on average. So with the godsword you have(roughly) 50% chance MORE to hit your average hit and with the whip your having 50% more CHANCES to hit your average hit.

 

 

 

If you'll deal damage in only 1 of 15(pretty low:S) attacks with the whip, you'll pretty much hit 1 time in 10 attacks with the godsword. If you hit say 100 times (that means 1500 attacks with the whip, 1000with gs which is 50% slower) that adds up to about 100*28,5 with the gs and 100*22,5 assuming your not very (un)lucky.

 

 

 

If your able of hitting almost everytime the advantage of the higher accuracy disappears and the speed will be a lot better.

 

 

 

What i'm trying to say is that there's a certain point (depending on your attack and the opponents defence) where the accuracy outdoes speed...

 

But you messed up your numbers. The fact is, whip has HIGHER accuracy and HIGHER strength. Any way you look at it mathematically shows the whip to be significantly better.

the numbers i used are the numbers you posted.. Just the equipment bonuses. (ill reply tomorrow, need some sleep now:p)

[compfreak847]

the numbers i used are the numbers you posted.. Just the equipment bonuses. (ill reply tomorrow, need some sleep now:p)

 

I meant you messed up in your calculations, you basically confused yourself and got lost. The bottom line is that with a HIGHER attack and a HIGHER strength, whip mathematically beats godsword in every way.

[1dhunter]

the numbers i used are the numbers you posted.. Just the equipment bonuses. (ill reply tomorrow, need some sleep now:p)

 

I meant you messed up in your calculations, you basically confused yourself and got lost. The bottom line is that with a HIGHER attack and a HIGHER strength, whip mathematically beats godsword in every way.

 

 

 

Why don't you tell me where I messed up? Ive used the LOWER bonuses from the whip to show why the higher accuracy sometimes is better then the higher speed from the whip.

[gongusan]

i didnt ask for a [bleep] debate

 

 

 

I am sorry but I just can't resist pointing out that smd is not a good thing to say to anybody, especially a Jmod. It stands for suck my ....

 

 

 

OT: Dragon claws is better than Ags, and the reasons have been stated for countless times by compfreak and others. :)

 

dont you think i know what it means lol

 

 

 

Also EDIT: I asked for a debate about d claws and ags in pvp i see you guys talking about whips and pvm up there somewhere :S

[compfreak847]

the numbers i used are the numbers you posted.. Just the equipment bonuses. (ill reply tomorrow, need some sleep now:p)

 

I meant you messed up in your calculations, you basically confused yourself and got lost. The bottom line is that with a HIGHER attack and a HIGHER strength, whip mathematically beats godsword in every way.

 

 

 

Why don't you tell me where I messed up? Ive used the LOWER bonuses from the whip to show why the higher accuracy sometimes is better then the higher speed from the whip.

 

And I'm saying you ended up proving the already proven. The whip has HIGHER accuracy and HIGHER strength. You were using MY numbers, and there is NO way to make the godsword look better mathematically.

[Howdydee2003]

And I'm saying you ended up proving the already proven. The whip has HIGHER accuracy and HIGHER strength. You were using MY numbers, and there is NO way to make the godsword look better mathematically.

 

 

 

Where are those pics at huh? and all those test u said u did... where they on people with 99 defense?.....full rune?....no armor at all?... what? You act like you made these weapons lol.

 

And yes, I've tried both weapons for sometime... and Godswords > D claws.

[Calzer101]

D claws

 

 

 

nuff said kthxbai

[Reded]

It entirely depends on your opponents. If you're mostly killing people with 1-45 defence and wearing nothing better than Rune, I'd get Claws.

 

 

 

However, from the tests I've done (And I did quite alot of them) I have to say AGS Hits better than Claws vs. people with high defence and Barrows armour.

 

 

 

So I guess if you're killing high level Dharok/Torag-wearers, get an AGS. If you're killing anyone else, get Claws. of course wait a while until they stop dropping though :)

 

 

 

The fact that AGS Isn't normally considered a 'PJing' Weapon is a fair point aswell though. If you walk around wearing Dragon Claws everyone will pile you, thinking you're only there to PJ people. But if they're staying in your inventory until the crucial moment, then I guess that doesn't matter :)

[compfreak847]

 

 

 

Where are those pics at huh? and all those test u said u did... where they on people with 99 defense?.....full rune?....no armor at all?... what? You act like you made these weapons lol.

 

And yes, I've tried both weapons for sometime... and Godswords > D claws.

 

I don't recall you posting any pictures of your tests. I'd estimate around 50 hours on no armor, 30 hours on rune, at least 70 on 99 defence, every single type of armor.

 

 

 

 

However, from the tests I've done (And I did quite alot of them) I have to say AGS Hits better than Claws vs. people with high defence and Barrows armour.

 

That's simply not true. D claws are far more accurate then AGS; AGS misses around 60% of the time on a tank, d claws less then 20.

[Reded]

 

 

 

 

However, from the tests I've done (And I did quite alot of them) I have to say AGS Hits better than Claws vs. people with high defence and Barrows armour.

 

That's simply not true. D claws are far more accurate then AGS; AGS misses around 60% of the time on a tank, d claws less then 20.

 

 

 

Well it seemed true for me, maybe I was just incredibly unlucky with my Claws and incredibly lucky with my AGS, but of course people will see a few YouTube videos of someone hitting 120 with a Dragon Claws special and assume it's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

[compfreak847]

 

Well it seemed true for me, maybe I was just incredibly unlucky with my Claws and incredibly lucky with my AGS, but of course people will see a few YouTube videos of someone hitting 120 with a Dragon Claws special and assume it's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

 

How much testing have you done? If it's only a few hours worth, that might be why :P

[Howdydee2003]

I don't recall you posting any pictures of your tests. I'd estimate around 50 hours on no armor, 30 hours on rune, at least 70 on 99 defence, every single type of armor.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

D Claws

 

 

 

Stab 41 Stab 13

 

Slash 57 Slash 26

 

Crush -4 Crush 7

 

Magic 0 Magic 0

 

Range 0 Range 0

 

Summoning 0

 

------------------------------------------

 

Godsword

 

 

 

Stab 0 Stab 0

 

Slash 132 Slash 0

 

Crush 80 Crush 0

 

Magic 0 Magic 0

 

Range 0 Range 0

 

Summoning 0

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So your telling me a weapon with +57 Slash hits MORE than a weapon with +132? Wow what have you've been smoking? And i NEVER said i did any tests.... I just used them both. You said you have but cannot prove it. Hmmmmmmm.... and You are also saying those Fancy claws can hit a guy with 99 defense with torag better than a godsword? Drugs are bad

[compfreak847]

 

So your telling me a weapon with +57 Slash hits MORE than a weapon with +132? Wow what have you've been smoking? And i NEVER said i did any tests.... I just used them both. You said you have but cannot prove it. Hmmmmmmm.... and You are also saying those Fancy claws can hit a guy with 99 defense with torag better than a godsword? Drugs are bad

 

Here's one idea: Do yourself a favor and try testing things before making grand proclamations.

 

 

 

AGS spec is much more accurate then a normal hit; ANYONE who has ever used AGS, even for a short time, can attest to that. Normal hits hit maybe once every 5-6 times; the special hits around half the time. D claws has an even stronger effect. Notice how they hit 4 times instead of the regular once? It's a cool thing Jagex put in, a 'special' attack that hits far harder and more accurately then the regular attack.

 

 

 

Now, having tested these two weapons longer then you've spent training combat your entire rs carrier, I can with assurance say that dragon claws are indeed more accurate then an armadyl godsword.

[Howdydee2003]

Here's one idea: Do yourself a favor and try testing things before making grand proclamations.

 

 

 

AGS spec is much more accurate then a normal hit; ANYONE who has ever used AGS, even for a short time, can attest to that. Normal hits hit maybe once every 5-6 times; the special hits around half the time. D claws has an even stronger effect. Notice how they hit 4 times instead of the regular once? It's a cool thing Jagex put in, a 'special' attack that hits far harder and more accurately then the regular attack.

 

 

 

Now, having tested these two weapons longer then you've spent training combat your entire rs carrier, I can with assurance say that dragon claws are indeed more accurate then an armadyl godsword.

 

 

 

Lol, you have a grand total of 700k exp past lvl 99's in combat stats. With that said, how long did you say you've used and tested these weapons?? and cannot show any proof for? uh huh... I bet you got 99 attack last week lol.

 

 

 

"Four very quick attacks performed at once, with a good chance of inflicting a lot of damage." Does it say anything about being accurate? No, it just hits 4 times. All it is, is a glorified Dragon Dagger. Which hit low most of the time.

 

 

 

Do you think if you do not ko with dragon claw special you'll still be alive against any godsword? Think again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit: Sorry, your a 99 cooker.... My bad for ever doubting your skills LOL.

[SirHartlar]

Edit: Sorry, your a 99 cooker.... My bad for ever doubting your skills LOL.

 

 

 

Someone with 1657 total isn't really in any position to start mouthing off other players. Compfreak is a reliable source of information and if you can't see that you need to reconsider what he has shown us.

[Howdydee2003]

Someone with 1657 total isn't really in any position to start mouthing off other players. Compfreak is a reliable source of information and if you can't see that you need to reconsider what he has shown us.

 

 

 

Already reconsidered buddy, when does skill total ever matter? When you have any Hard skills Maxed out, then we can talk......99 cooking and combat stats do not impress me lol. Getting every stat to 80 is real easy if you have the time for it.

 

 

 

"Reliable source with no proof", sounds like an oxymoron if I ever heard one...

[SirHartlar]

Someone with 1657 total isn't really in any position to start mouthing off other players. Compfreak is a reliable source of information and if you can't see that you need to reconsider what he has shown us.

 

 

 

Already reconsidered buddy, when does skill total ever matter? When you have any Hard skills Maxed out, then we can talk......99 cooking and combat stats do not impress me lol. Getting every stat to 80 is real easy if you have the time for it.

 

 

 

I wouldn't call him reliable source with no proof, sounds like an oxymoron if I ever heard one...

 

 

 

It is all just opinion of course, one persons idea of an impressive set of skills is different to another. Disregarding what compfreak has said because he is a "99 cooker" is ridiculous. He is alwas extremely helpful in H&A, he is great with maths and working things out and as far as I'm aware he has never made a mistake without owning up to it. Check out his rant about slayer if you don't believe me.

[Howdydee2003]

It is all just opinion of course, one persons idea of an impressive set of skills is different to another. Disregarding what compfreak has said because he is a "99 cooker" is ridiculous. He is alwas extremely helpful in H&A, he is great with maths and working things out and as far as I'm aware he has never made a mistake without owning up to it. Check out his rant about slayer if you don't believe me.

 

 

 

I disregarded it because he has 0 Proof even though he says he has tons of it. I just do not like liars lol. And I'm sure he has all the time in the world for all the "maths" Runescape has to offer and can see claws hit 8 times with 2 specials and ags only hits twice..8 > 2..WOW, i am good at "maths" too. I just find it funny when people talk like they made the game. lol

 

 

 

Btw, Ill fight ya any day,Claws vs Ags, just dont go running away when those manly specials do not hit lol.

[Lets_3ekout]

I don't recall you posting any pictures of your tests. I'd estimate around 50 hours on no armor, 30 hours on rune, at least 70 on 99 defence, every single type of armor.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

D Claws

 

 

 

Stab 41 Stab 13

 

Slash 57 Slash 26

 

Crush -4 Crush 7

 

Magic 0 Magic 0

 

Range 0 Range 0

 

Summoning 0

 

------------------------------------------

 

Godsword

 

 

 

Stab 0 Stab 0

 

Slash 132 Slash 0

 

Crush 80 Crush 0

 

Magic 0 Magic 0

 

Range 0 Range 0

 

Summoning 0

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So your telling me a weapon with +57 Slash hits MORE than a weapon with +132? Wow what have you've been smoking? And i NEVER said i did any tests.... I just used them both. You said you have but cannot prove it. Hmmmmmmm.... and You are also saying those Fancy claws can hit a guy with 99 defense with torag better than a godsword? Drugs are bad

 

 

 

The fact that you compare d claw and ags like this is enough to make me think you've never touched a pair of d claws. If you have half a brain with which to think with and have used a d claw spec, you would realise that the spec has an insane buff on attack. But hey, you've used them both, go run some tests of your own and compare non spec d claw hits to specs. Then talk.

 

 

 

Here's one idea: Do yourself a favor and try testing things before making grand proclamations.

 

 

 

AGS spec is much more accurate then a normal hit; ANYONE who has ever used AGS, even for a short time, can attest to that. Normal hits hit maybe once every 5-6 times; the special hits around half the time. D claws has an even stronger effect. Notice how they hit 4 times instead of the regular once? It's a cool thing Jagex put in, a 'special' attack that hits far harder and more accurately then the regular attack.

 

 

 

Now, having tested these two weapons longer then you've spent training combat your entire rs carrier, I can with assurance say that dragon claws are indeed more accurate then an armadyl godsword.

 

 

 

Lol, you have a grand total of 700k exp past lvl 99's in combat stats. With that said, how long did you say you've used and tested these weapons?? and cannot show any proof for? uh huh... I bet you got 99 attack last week lol.

 

 

 

"Four very quick attacks performed at once, with a good chance of inflicting a lot of damage." Does it say anything about being accurate? No, it just hits 4 times. All it is, is a glorified Dragon Dagger. Which hit low most of the time.

 

 

 

Do you think if you do not ko with dragon claw special you'll still be alive against any godsword? Think again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit: Sorry, your a 99 cooker.... My bad for ever doubting your skills LOL.

 

First, you made a complete fool of yourself with that last sentence. What the hell does cooking have to do with d claws? I bolded out what you clearly missed: "with a good chance of inflicting a lot of damage". This suggests increased accuracy, because chance of inflicting a lot of damage in any one attack do not come just from strength, but accuracy. It's not rocket science.

 

Now, it may be a glorified dagger (and lol at you saying it hits low most of the time. Yet more proof you've never used a d claw or play blindfolded), but what does that make an AGS? It does extra damage with an accuracy boost. Wow, not really that much of a step up from a DDS spec either, huh?

 

 

 

Someone with 1657 total isn't really in any position to start mouthing off other players. Compfreak is a reliable source of information and if you can't see that you need to reconsider what he has shown us.

 

 

 

Already reconsidered buddy, when does skill total ever matter? When you have any Hard skills Maxed out, then we can talk......99 cooking and combat stats do not impress me lol. Getting every stat to 80 is real easy if you have the time for it.

 

 

 

Why does anyone need to impress you to prove a point? Combat stats are ALL relevant skills here and the rest of anyone's stats doesn't say crap in this arguement. "Hey look at me, I have 99 herb I know how d claws and ags work now!". Sound wrong? I thought so.

 

 

 

It is all just opinion of course, one persons idea of an impressive set of skills is different to another. Disregarding what compfreak has said because he is a "99 cooker" is ridiculous. He is alwas extremely helpful in H&A, he is great with maths and working things out and as far as I'm aware he has never made a mistake without owning up to it. Check out his rant about slayer if you don't believe me.

 

 

 

I disregarded it because he has 0 Proof even though he says he has tons of it. I just do not like liars lol. And I'm sure he has all the time in the world for all the "maths" Runescape has to offer and can see claws hit 8 times with 2 specials and ags only hits twice..8 > 2..WOW, i am good at "maths" too. I just find it funny when people talk like they made the game. lol

 

 

 

Btw, Ill fight ya any day,Claws vs Ags, just dont go running away when those manly specials do not hit lol.

 

What proof have you given us? The stats of d claw and ags which proves absolutely NOTHING? And a definition of d claws that contradicts your argument?

 

And if you think fighting someone a few times with AGS vs d claws is an accurate and reliable way of determining the superior weapon, your knowledge of statistics and chance is lacking.

 

 

 

 

 

If your going to argue efficiency with Comp you better bring more than a few false statistics and topic diversions.

[compfreak847]

Everything's already been responded to, I was gone :(

 

 

 

 

Btw, Ill fight ya any day,Claws vs Ags, just dont go running away when those manly specials do not hit lol.

 

Will do. I'm serious. Check your PM box, I'll send you a message later today.