say what!

[Silver_Corner]

[hide=]

The spells or power of magic are not under or overpowered. They are basically where they should be.

 

 

 

When people say "mage is underpowered" they are referring to a specific situation when a melee player puts on dragonhide and will continue to melee (with a high mage defense) without any penalty on the triangle. According to the triangle, you should not be able to melee effectively in any armor that gives high mage defense.

 

 

 

(Strictly looking at offensive bonuses)

 

Range

 

-In ranger armor (effective)

 

-In mage armor (loss of accuracy)

 

-In melee armor (Major loss of accuracy)

 

 

 

Mage

 

-In mage armor (effective)

 

-In ranger armor (loss of accuracy)

 

-In Melee armor (Major loss in accuracy)

 

 

 

Melee

 

-In mage armor (effective)

 

-In range armor (effective)

 

-In melee armor (effective)

 

 

 

As you can see, melee can use any armor to battle effectivly without penalty, while range and magic are limited. This is the issue which makes the triangle broken. If you were to ask me personaly, I would say the melee defensive stats of dragonhide and mystic armor should be swapped.

 

 

 

If we do see changes in mage getting "balanced", it will not come from new spells or magic being enchanced. It will come from dragon hide getting a melee and/or strength reduction. It could also come from mystic armor increasing in melee defense as well, but I can see dragonhide stats changing in the future.

[/hide]

 

 

 

 

 

Melee gets its bonus from armor, but mainly from the Attack skill.

 

 

 

Range and Magic are the Equivalent of the strength skill. Where it relates to higher hits at higher levels. Your main accuracy bonus (what the attack skill is...) comes from your armor. Thus that is why they get huge negatives for wearing counter class or melee armor and melee doesn't. Because 2 stats are used to train melee 1 for range and magic.

 

 

 

Defense for all...

 

 

 

I find it amazing that i might be the only one who's thought of this after all the years RS has been around...

 

 

 

/post

 

 

 

Actually your post further proves my point. Not /post.

 

Looking at just range, like you said, the major part of the range accuracy comes from the Range Bonus of armor. Certain types of armor dont have range bonuses, which means loss in range accuracy.

 

 

 

Melee on the other hand, has almost NO negative bonuses. So for example you have 99 Melee Attack & Strength regardless if you wear mage armor, rune armor, or dragon hide armor because melee accuracy is based on the attack skill and not the armor you are wearing.

 

 

 

For a rough example:

 

 

 

With melee you have 99 melee attack when you wear melee armor, 99 melee attack when you wear dragon hide, and 99 melee attack when you wear mage armor.

 

 

 

With mage you have 99 mage attack when you wear mage armor, 80 mage attack when wearing dragonhide armor, and 50 mage attack when wearing melee armor.

 

 

 

With range you have 99 range attack when you wear range armor, 80 range attack when you wear mage armor, and 50 range attack when you wear melee armor.

 

 

 

You see my point? Melee has no penalty in accuracy no matter what armor your wear, your always 99 attack and strength. Mage and range has restrictions in armor which give a loss of accuracy. THATS why there is a problem. Melee needs to have a loss of accuracy on certain armor like the other classes do.

 

 

 

EDIT:

 

Melee SHOULD be like this:

 

With melee you have 99 melee attack when you wear melee armor, 80 melee attack when you wear mage armor, 50 melee attack when you wear dragon hide armor.

 

 

 

Since melee accuracy comes from the attack skill and not the armor bonuses, you'd need a high negative melee accuracy bonus in certain armor types to compensate for this.

[Jimmyh7]

I think combat's pretty balanced in p2p.

 

 

 

They should correct the combat in f2p, really. At mid-high levels, magers have no chance at all.

[warrior5024]

:wall:

 

 

 

Magic is fine.

 

Just make a way that we can stay in combat while attacking a person from far away. I'm tired of PJ'ers.

 

If they make Magic so that every little idiots can use it, then I really have no more desire to play.

 

It's a tactical skill, use smarts over weapons, and figure out strengths and weaknesses.

[ortiz9471]

Anybody watch a pk vid recently?

 

 

 

In teams, count how many people are maging and how many people are meleeing - maging will greatly outnumber range/melee. Then look at who gets the kills - it's the magers. And when the rangers/meleers DO get the kills, it's because the mages froze/teleblocked them leaving them vulnerable to the rangers/meleers.

 

 

 

Exactly how is that underpowered?

 

 

 

And for bosses, no bosses are good for killing with mage (except for Rex). However, this isn't because of the ineffectiveness of the spells, it's because in mage armor you get hit a LOT at most bosses. If mages were given good defensive armor with a high magic offense for a reasonable price, mage would become incredibly overpowered.

 

 

 

Does mage REALLY need an update?

[J35u5_M4]

Magic is powerful enough, barrage hits 30s and FREEZES, not underpowered IMO

[Misterknowitall]

Does mage REALLY need an update?

 

 

 

Yep. Better armor.

[J35u5_M4]

Does mage REALLY need an update?

 

 

 

Yep. Better armor.

 

 

 

Well, since every spell has a limit of damage done, better armor would improve accuracy, so it might be a good update actually

[999134]

magic has very high accuracy people forgot that

 

using cog with void mace is very effective in combat

 

as well as comboing blitz-barrage for up to 56 damage(no mismic)

[Silver_Corner]

However melee has the attack attack skill an entirely different skill is responsible for accuracy,not like magic and range who rely on their armor for accuracy.... Therefor it only makes sense to me that melee accuracy bonus shouldnt come from armor.

 

While there is still no equivalent for range and magic. Range and magic need a limit on accuracy bonus, sense they have no second skill limiting theirs. Thats why they bear the brunt of the restrictions on them...

 

 

 

Correct, I was not talking about melee accuracy *bonuses* on armor, but my point was (including levels and armor), there is nothing that *reduces* melee accuracy, which every other class has, either in the form of armor bonuses or levels.

 

 

 

According to the combat triangle, you should use the armor type of which you are using as offensive type. If you are using range, you should be using range armor. And according to the triangle, you should have accuracy penalties for using a different class of armor than the offensive class you are using. (Eg. Penalty for trying to range in melee armor)

 

 

 

Every class has those accuracy penalties (either by armor stats or levels) for using different defensive armor EXCEPT melee. (You should have a penalty for meleeing in ranger/mage armor, but you don't, which there lies the problem)

 

 

 

It still makes sense that melee >>>armor<<< doesn't give attack bonus (except on the newer, arguably overpowered stuff) And therefor dont get n-n-n-neeerfed from wearing counter class things. It wouldn't make sense sense they have an entire skill devoted to accuracy

 

 

 

I agree, melee armor shouldn't get attack bonuses because that is the job of the attack skill. But it should have NEGATIVE melee attack bonuses on armor of the mage and range classes because you should not be allowed to use those armors with melee without penalty.

 

 

 

Since the attack skill + melee offensive stats are responsible for melee accuracy, the only way to reduce melee accuracy is either reduce your attack level (which wont work) or make range/mage armor have negative melee offensive stats.

[J35u5_M4]

what!

 

 

 

I don't think mage is underpowered tbh

[Me_Hate_Libs]

Prsoally I'd like to see weapons capable of doing magical-melee much like several slayer monster have.

 

 

 

However, since it uses no runes I think maybe it should give less than half the exp normal melee should give you, i.e. 1.5 exp per hit made with it. Slower yes, but a cheaper way to raise mage and less tedious. Good combat use too.

 

 

 

Oh, and the damage should only have to do with you Mage skill and not any melee stats.

[Slayer_Jesse]

mage is underpowered in the sence of PvM and pure mage pking. in pvm, modern magic spells are underpowered compared to what the other classes can do, and ancients is too costly to train with(not counting rock lobs/ skele monkies. i mean for things like slayer.) pure mage pking lacks ko ability... but since noone pure mages, this point is moot! :lol:

 

 

 

also, magic is the only class that isn't resistant (in its armor) to the class its meant to beat. it relies much too heavily on freezing. i would like to see all magic armor get some decent melee def.

 

 

 

finally, magic is useless at all but one boss, dagganoth rex. yikes. (best argument for mages to get more melee def.)

[Cheefoo]

In pvm, mage is barely used. Too expensive, low max hit... Freezing, lowering attack, magic, defence, and prayer isn't worth it against monsters. The max hit is 30, and the attacks are very costly. There needs to be a book that has cheap spells, and high max hits. I don't care if there's nothing else in that book, but it needs something good against monsters.

[Poppet]

Mages have no defense or high max hit get over it magic is the worst combat skill it only makes up for it with its teleports and other non-combat spells.