Why is it okay to get messed up out of your mind on prescription pills, but taking a puff of cannabis is frowned upon? I know some people who have prescriptions. (One of which is my teacher.) They seem to be in much worse shape than any smoker I've seen, yet they're allowed to drive, work, teach, etc. Do we put too much trust in doctors, people who are getting money from us?

 

 

 

What are your opinions?

 

 

 

Doctors don't recommend that you drive or do any dangerous work if you're messed up on prescription pills. Quite the opposite. I don't think it's ok to get messed up on legal or illegal drugs. Both should be taken in moderation for their proper purpose (or in the case of illegal drugs, at your own legal/physical risk).

 

 

 

By the way, where do you get the idea where it's ok to get messed up on prescription pills? I've never come across that attitude before.

By the way, where do you get the idea where it's ok to get messed up on prescription pills? I've never come across that attitude before.

 

 

 

That's what I was just thinking. Was it just an exaggeration to get your point across or is it a common thing where you are?

Because marijuana can both exacerbate and bring out pre-existing mental illnesses that may not have otherwise surfaced, in particular schizophrenia and paranoia/anxiety. Smoke cigarettes? higher the chances of cancer. I guess they'd rather a room full of potential cancer patients than a room full of potential schizophrenics. Legalize it and what do you get? You increase the mental instability in the world's population. Although I'm sure even if it's illegal many would find ways anyway.

 

 

 

Keeping it illegal pushes it underground, forces people who want to do it to associate with drug dealers who also deal harder stuff. In criminal trade there is no regulation, gangs fight for control of key shipment lines and dealing turf and there are countless deaths associated with this. Gangs fund other criminal operations with their main money source; drugs.

 

 

 

Also, how does the state/majority have any justification to tell you what you can and cannot do to yourself?

 

 

 

Sound argument I agree with you but at the same time you can't dismiss the fact the the world's mental instability will increase the more widely available it becomes. If you want to go give yourself schizophrenia/paranoia/anxiety that may not have otherwise surfaced then be my guest but the general public is at harm. To say that all schizophrenics are molesting, murderers is a stereotype but it'll definitely increase. If everyone could run around and do whatever they wanted, the world would be an ugly place. Why can't I go up and stab you if you annoy me and not get away with it? lol I'm not serious by the way.

 

 

 

Because you would be imposing upon my freedoms.

 

 

 

People are free to do what they want as long as they do not impose on the freedoms of others.

But applying your theory, someone high as a kite who becomes mentally unstable is capable of taking away the freedom of others.

But applying your theory, someone high as a kite who becomes mentally unstable is capable of taking away the freedom of others.

 

 

 

But which part of *taking the drug* is imposing?

 

 

 

All that is involved in the action of taking a drug is a drug and a person who governs himself.

 

 

 

Their future actions are irrelevant. If someone owns their own body they have the right to do whatever they want to it.

 

 

 

If they go on to kill someone, that is a different issue. There is no drug that has a guarantee that someone who takes it will impose on the freedoms of others.

I will never understand the mentality of those who think that they/or the state have the justification to tell people what they can and cannot do to themselves.

 

 

 

In fact, what annoys me more is that these people are usually the same people who talk about "freedom" as if they actually know what the concept means, but then go on to support Bush with suspension of habeas corpus/all that good stuff.

 

 

 

It's all about stigma, and a population of people who are too stupid/willfully ignorant to see past it all. When I look at these drug laws and think back to my experiences with drugs (both positive and negative) I think to myself, what the hell is wrong with these people? And I know they think the same way about me, and probably this makes me just as bigoted as them, but I can't possibly respect them no matter how hard I try. I used to be all about acceptance - that was my one ambition really, to accept everybody. Yet now, I just can't. I tried it for a while, and to be honest I'm not sure if I knew at the time whether it wouldn't work, or whether that's just me reflecting on that experience and trying to make sense of it all by conjuring some sort of concrete subconscious doubt that I had all along to make it seem as if I never changed. This leads me to believe that inside I'm scared of understanding that everything is always changing, and obviously I already know this, but there is a difference between knowing and understanding. I've never had so much contempt and hatred for people in my entire life as I have had in the past few months. When I look at society, I can't help but notice the masses of stupid, easily manipulated, empty shells of human beings that hold everybody with any substance back, and I can't decide whether they're happy because of ignorance or whether deep down they know their nature - and to be honest that's probably why real happiness scares me, in the sense that sometimes I find myself intentionally making things a little worse and a little bit more chaotic just so I have something to plague me at my core, cause without that cognitive dissonance and constant analysis of my self, I fear that I'll become one of the drones.

 

 

 

I don't know how I got onto that from the topic at hand, but whatever lol. Anyway, all drugs should be legal, the government doesn't have the justification to tell you what you can and cannot do to yourself. Any government that does do this is inherently tyrannical simply by definition.

 

 

 

 

 

I agree, I'm also sick of the eco-morons trying to tell me what car I can drive, and you drive a "gas guzzler" you're flipped off on the road. We have authoritarians on both sides. I would be all for legalizing Marijuana if we as Americans could start taking personal responsibility for our actions. These days it's always someone else's fault. Imagine the lawsuits that would come from all the "accidents".

But applying your theory, someone high as a kite who becomes mentally unstable is capable of taking away the freedom of others.

 

 

 

But which part of *taking the drug* is imposing?

 

 

 

All that is involved in the action of taking a drug is a drug and a person who governs himself.

 

 

 

Their future actions are irrelevant. If someone owns their own body they have the right to do whatever they want to it.

 

 

 

If they go on to kill someone, that is a different issue. There is no drug that has a guarantee that someone who takes it will impose on the freedoms of others.

 

 

 

Okay, say I agree with you on that matter but the fact that it still happens has got to mean something surely. If there was hypothetically a drug on the market that turned you in to a serial killer would you still legalize it because taking the drug is not imposing?

For the sake of argument, I would have to say that the amount of people that currently become addicted to harder drugs that are laced in their weed far outnumbers those who will become will become schizophrenic/paranoid. With legalized weed, there will be no more need to buy from dealers, therefore eliminating the chance that the buyer's weed is laced with any other hard drug.

 

 

 

And for the record, I know hundreds of people who smoke week weekly/daily and not one has had any long term (or short term for that matter) mental problems due to it.

What's your point? It's a still a fact and happens a lot, especially when it runs in genetics. Exaggeration doesn't make you sound credible either.

Legalise drugs. It's strange that things that limit your mind (alchohol) are allowed but things that broaden your mind (drugs) are illegal. I haven't got more to say about it.

Because marijuana can both exacerbate and bring out pre-existing mental illnesses that may not have otherwise surfaced, in particular schizophrenia and paranoia/anxiety. Smoke cigarettes? higher the chances of cancer. I guess they'd rather a room full of potential cancer patients than a room full of potential schizophrenics. Legalize it and what do you get? You increase the mental instability in the world's population. Although I'm sure even if it's illegal many would find ways anyway.

 

 

 

Keeping it illegal pushes it underground, forces people who want to do it to associate with drug dealers who also deal harder stuff. In criminal trade there is no regulation, gangs fight for control of key shipment lines and dealing turf and there are countless deaths associated with this. Gangs fund other criminal operations with their main money source; drugs.

 

 

 

Also, how does the state/majority have any justification to tell you what you can and cannot do to yourself?

 

 

 

Sound argument I agree with you but at the same time you can't dismiss the fact the the world's mental instability will increase the more widely available it becomes. If you want to go give yourself schizophrenia/paranoia/anxiety that may not have otherwise surfaced then be my guest but the general public is at harm. To say that all schizophrenics are molesting, murderers is a stereotype but it'll definitely increase. If everyone could run around and do whatever they wanted, the world would be an ugly place. Why can't I go up and stab you if you annoy me and not get away with it? lol I'm not serious by the way.

 

 

 

Marijuana isn't a big of a cause for mental illness - it increases the chances of getting schizophrenia by 70% (I have a source, but I also have a midterm in 1 hour and 20min, ill get it later) -but that 70% is only in the pot smoking population. It hasn't been linked (last time i checked) to either dementia or anxiety disorders. But I'll check up once I'm done my midterm and the party that ensues afterwards

 

 

 

Back to the OP- I have to ask you: why do people take prescription pills?

 

 

 

Its kind of funny how this topic started off as a "discussion" about prescription pills and immediately the potheads spring to the defense of marijiananananana.

By the way, where do you get the idea where it's ok to get messed up on prescription pills? I've never come across that attitude before.

 

 

 

That's what I was just thinking. Was it just an exaggeration to get your point across or is it a common thing where you are?

 

 

 

Yeah, I may have exaggerated that point a bit. I just think it's ironic how teachers can give lectures while they're not in the right state of mind because a doctor says so, but you can't smoke marijuana in the safety of your own home where it's not really effecting anyone.

Legalize it and what do you get? You increase the mental instability in the world's population.

 

a) You assume that decriminalization/legalization will lead to an increase in marijuana use.

 

B) You assume that an increase in marijuana use will lead to an increase in rates of schizophrenia.

 

 

 

Neither assumption is supported by current research.

 

 

 

Marijuana Decriminalization & Its Impact on Use

 

"Findings from dozens of government-commissioned and academic studies published over the past 25 years overwhelmingly affirm that liberalizing marijuana penalties does not lead to an increase in marijuana consumption or affect adolescent attitudes toward drug use. [...]"

 

 

 

Cannabis May Pose A "Modest" Risk For Those Vulnerable To Schizophrenia, Report Says

 

"The review, 'Cannabis and Mental Health: Responses to the Emerging Evidence,' finds that cannabis, like alcohol, may 'precipitate schizophrenia in people who are already vulnerable for individual or family reasons.' Authors add, however, that the 'increased rates of cannabis use in the last thirty years have not been accompanied by a corresponding increase in the rate of psychosis in the population.'"

Back to the OP- I have to ask you: why do people take prescription pills?

 

 

 

I assume you're getting at how people take pills to cure their ailment and how people smoke to cure their boredom, or something along those lines. That's a good point, but I guess we're just looking at it a different way. You look at the cause, while I look at the effect (in both cases with these drugs, you do get high). That means it's just a matter of arguing whether curing boredom should be on the same level as curing an ailment.

Marijuana isn't a big of a cause for mental illness - it increases the chances of getting schizophrenia by 70% (I have a source, but I also have a midterm in 1 hour and 20min, ill get it later) -but that 70% is only in the pot smoking population. It hasn't been linked (last time i checked) to either dementia or anxiety disorders. But I'll check up once I'm done my midterm and the party that ensues afterwards.

 

 

 

I just said that Marijuana increases the chances of getting Schizophrenia. All you've done is added further research to my point. You don't need to provide me with a source but thank you. I've already read about it in about one of 50 substance abuse text books I have laying around the house from when I was at university.

 

 

 

I didn't say that Marijuana is linked to either dementia or anxiety disorders. In fact many who have generalized anxiety disorders would argue that it helps reduce their anxiety. Although there are several psychiatrists that I know (some of the best in QLD) 40+ years experience who would love to argue that Marijuana is linked to anxiety disorders.

 

 

 

I said that Marijuana can exacerbate pre existing psychosis, anxiety and paranoia. It doesn't take a source to prove that paranoia and anxiety are often symptoms from smoking the old green leaf, it's a largely known fact. But here's one anyway!

 

 

 

http://www.adavic.org/education/articles/marijuana.htm

 

 

 

While it's great to have someone else on the boards in the psychology field, I really wish you would stop adding words that aren't there. You've done that the last two times we've had the pleasure of running in to each other on the forums.

I don't see why you think I'm exaggerating. I can list about 30 people off the top of my head who I know smoke. And those are only friends. I'm not even friends with the main marijuana smoking social group at my school. And this is only for my class. I'll list 30 for you right now. (And sure you can say I'm making up names. But I'm not.)

 

 

 

Eric, Ricky, Niklas, Zion, Lucas, Kevin, Robby, Sean, Timothy, Aaron, other Aaron, Marcus, Marco, Arro, Collin, Ana, Sami, Sammy, Caroline, Kyle, Robert, Luis, other Sean, Jacob, Sam, Jon

 

 

 

Ok, so thats only 27. But I only know about 80 people out of 600 in my class. So multiply 27 * 7 and you have around 160 people IN MY CLASS. Times four classes and you have over 600 people in my school.

I don't see why you think I'm exaggerating. I can list about 30 people off the top of my head who I know smoke.

 

 

 

Ok, so thats only 27

 

 

 

And for the record, I know hundreds of people who smoke week weekly/daily and not one has had any long term (or short term for that matter) mental problems due to it.

 

 

 

If you only know 27 people, I highly doubt you know whether it has affected other class mates in some shape or form. Quite often people walk around with psychosis/disorders and the general public is unaware. I also doubt you know every, single one of your friend's experience with it, only the one's they decide to tell you and even if there was something wrong, they're not a professional, they would probably walk around thinking that nothing is wrong. That's why we have psychiatrists, because the general public can't go around diagnosing themselves ;)

It is pointless to talk of such a hypothetical drug because it doesn't exist, and if it did exist it would be some sort of mind control thing.

 

 

 

If it is 100% going to happen, then yes you can equate the taking of the drug to the action itself, but again, such a drug doesn't exist/probably couldn't exist without some third party being involved.

 

 

 

So the point still stands - the state/majority have no justification to tell you what you can and cannot do to your own body.

 

If you only know 27 people, I highly doubt you know whether it has affected other class mates in some shape or form. Quite often people walk around with psychosis/disorders and the general public is unaware. I also doubt you know every, single one of your friend's experience with it, only the one's they decide to tell you and even if there was something wrong, they're not a professional, they would probably walk around thinking that nothing is wrong. That's why we have psychiatrists, because the general public can't go around diagnosing themselves ;)

 

 

 

Listen to this lady right here.

 

 

 

I used to smoke weed daily,around the age of sixteen till eighteen. It went well for a very long time,but eventually as i went on the second year,i started getting panic attacks after i smoked weed. I would feel like i was about to die,and even had to lay down on some wet road in the middle of the night with cars stopping by to ask me if I was okay.

 

 

 

I stopped smoking soon after that,but i continued to have some anxiety attacks for a very long time after,where as I never had any before.That said,i believe it should be made legal,since all things considered,i don't see a good reason to not do so since every one will continue to do so any way,and the punishments for getting caught with it are far too insane.

I can speak from first hand experience as well seeing as my anxiety stems back to the time I first started to smoke pot ;) professionally diagnosed too mind you. Nobody would realize that I live with it, I look normal, I'm intelligent, I went to uni, never been below management in a job, have plenty of friends yadda yadda.

 

 

 

Sorry Ven - I was about to address your post too but I had to look at some houses. That is a good study but what exactly has the study got to stand by? Yes marijuana usage has increased but just because you find a study that shows that psychosis hasn't increased in that area means nothing. It just means people haven't been professionally diagnosed, stemming back to marijuana use, literally walking in to the office saying "I THINK I'M SUFFERING PSYCHOSIS, DIAGNOSE ME!" in order to +1 to the statistic.

 

 

 

It doesn't take in to account:

 

 

 

1. homeless people who more often than not use either drugs or are suffering from some sort of psychosis (minus family situations and some special circumstances) who choose to do nothing about it.

 

 

 

2. The amount of users who won't admit to smoking pot, as they don't see it as a problem and even use it to self medicate. There are a lot of people who use marijuana to self medicate so why the hell would they ask for help if they already think something is fixing their problem? lol

 

 

 

3. Once again stemming back to the fact that you have to actually admit that you have a problem before you seek help.

 

 

 

4. People walk around every, single, day not knowing that they have a problem. Or they generally have some idea but don't choose to seek help.

 

 

 

5. If you legalized it, common sense says it is available to all community members, therefore exposing a larger amount of population that has psychosis running in their genetics. It's only logical to assume numbers will rise. It is an assumption but an extremely logical one.

 

 

 

6. Take in to account some regular pot smokers (eg... daily) are then daily experiencing a mind alteration in which their perception changes.

 

 

 

7. Many Schizophrenics won't turn up for treatment because they assume pot smoking fixes it. Some aren't well enough to even trust their perception in between psychotic episodes. Many have horrible paranoia and do not trust professional help and think people are out to get them.

 

 

 

All you have to do is volunteer to work for a substance abuse support group and work with a small group of youths to understand just how much it can screw with your mind. Almost none of them wanted professional treatment, they just wanted to be a part of a support group and go it alone. They truly believed that continuing to smoke pot would fix their problems. Those who did seek professional help usually ceased visits after the very first visit.

 

 

 

So seeing that first hand is laughable when studies haven't found any increases. That is because nobody wants to be labeled, nobody likes to be told something is wrong with them, and not many people like to admit that something is a problem, they're too proud and usually resort to self medicating and going it alone.

 

 

 

I know at least 5 or 6 pot smokers from when I was younger who are now using it almost every day. When I first met them they seemed pretty normal but after the last 6/7 years their behaviour is NOT normal. Yet they won't seek help because they don't notice any difference. I personally know someone who is an emotional wreck with extreme paranoia, who goes preaching bible verses and how everything we do and see is an illusion so it's stupid to get a job or even shower and look after their personal hygiene. And yet he thinks nothing has changed about him. And I do know someone with Schizophrenia after a bad pot smoking session. He's now medicated up to his eyeballs unable to do anything for himself. I also know someone who was diagnosed with bipolar disorder who self medicated themselves with marijuana and it later triggered off a terrible psychosis, made him borderline schizophrenic and he stabbed someone to death. I'm not making these up by the way.

 

 

 

I'm actually leaving to Adelaide so most probably won't be able to check any replies so sorry about that.

 

 

 

So the point still stands - the state/majority have no justification to tell you what you can and cannot do to your own body.

 

 

 

Point still stands that regardless of personal justification, marijuana exacerbates psychosis that may not have ever of surfaced in that person's life. And many people aren't educated of it either and some would have preferred not to take the risk if they knew about it. Especially those who now can't live normal lives and it now affects their family too.

I don't see why you think I'm exaggerating. I can list about 30 people off the top of my head who I know smoke. And those are only friends. I'm not even friends with the main marijuana smoking social group at my school. And this is only for my class. I'll list 30 for you right now. (And sure you can say I'm making up names. But I'm not.)

 

 

 

Eric, Ricky, Niklas, Zion, Lucas, Kevin, Robby, Sean, Timothy, Aaron, other Aaron, Marcus, Marco, Arro, Collin, Ana, Sami, Sammy, Caroline, Kyle, Robert, Luis, other Sean, Jacob, Sam, Jon

 

 

 

Ok, so thats only 27. But I only know about 80 people out of 600 in my class. So multiply 27 * 7 and you have around 160 people IN MY CLASS. Times four classes and you have over 600 people in my school.

 

were you high when you posted this?

I don't see why you think I'm exaggerating. I can list about 30 people off the top of my head who I know smoke. And those are only friends. I'm not even friends with the main marijuana smoking social group at my school. And this is only for my class. I'll list 30 for you right now. (And sure you can say I'm making up names. But I'm not.)

 

 

 

Eric, Ricky, Niklas, Zion, Lucas, Kevin, Robby, Sean, Timothy, Aaron, other Aaron, Marcus, Marco, Arro, Collin, Ana, Sami, Sammy, Caroline, Kyle, Robert, Luis, other Sean, Jacob, Sam, Jon

 

 

 

Ok, so thats only 27. But I only know about 80 people out of 600 in my class. So multiply 27 * 7 and you have around 160 people IN MY CLASS. Times four classes and you have over 600 people in my school.

 

were you high when you posted this?

 

 

 

No, I got halfway through the list, and had to leave for a few hours. Needless to say when I came back I went a bit off of my point.

 

 

 

Anyway, the first half of post was explaining how I don't know anybody with mental problems caused by marijuana. When I came back I quickly finished my post talking about how I do actually know "hundreds" of people at my school who smoke.

 

 

 

 

 

Back on the topic being discussed:

 

Ok, so obviously there is a large number of people who have had mental problems which started at the time they started smoking weed. My only remaining problem with this whole arguement is this:

 

 

 

The fact that marijuana is illegal obviously didn't stop you from smoking it. You would be hard pressed to find many people who are "straight edge" because of the fact that the drug is illegal. The majority of people who do not smoke (or have never smoked) do so because either

 

a) they think it is bad for them (which is true to some extent, but so is television) and so don't use it

 

or

 

B) they have some personal reason (promises made to others, family members becomming psycotic, became "addicted")

 

 

 

Although I am sure there are people who don't smoke due to the legality factor, there isn't much reason to believe legalizing marijuana would lead to a significant increase in usage.

Why is it okay to get messed up out of your mind on prescription pills, but taking a puff of cannabis is frowned upon? I know some people who have prescriptions. (One of which is my teacher.) They seem to be in much worse shape than any smoker I've seen, yet they're allowed to drive, work, teach, etc. Do we put too much trust in doctors, people who are getting money from us?

 

 

 

What are your opinions?

 

 

 

Doctors are trained professionals, you can only get medicine if they genuinely believe it will help you. How easily they hand it out depends on allot of things including the strength of the medicine, for some forms of medication is is ok for them to experiment to see if it does or does not help you.

 

 

 

I don't see an argument for cannabis helping anyone, that's why it is not given out by doctors and not used as medicine. Except for self medication pot heads with the "It's medicinal man" :lol: It's their choice if they want to smoke it, but it is frustrating when people perpetuate lies about it at least be honest.

 

 

 

 

 

It is illegal, so yes of course it is wrong.

 

 

 

It also seems to have a negative effect on the productivity of a person, but that is besides the point.

 

 

 

Respect the law, even though there is nothing inherently criminal or malevolent in smoking marijuana.

 

 

 

Seems like a pretty dim view.

 

 

 

It was once illegal for black people to vote. Perhaps it was wrong to disrespect that law, maybe we should correct our mistake and reintroduce it?

I don't see an argument for cannabis helping anyone, that's why it is not given out by doctors and not used as medicine. Except for self medication pot heads with the "It's medicinal man" :lol: It's their choice if they want to smoke it, but it is frustrating when people perpetuate lies about it at least be honest.

 

 

 

It might not mend your bones or cure a sickness, but it can definitely helps you relax and helps deal with depression.

 

 

 

Note: I'm not talking about chronic depression disorder - just the average bummed out type of depressed.

It is illegal, so yes of course it is wrong.

 

 

 

It also seems to have a negative effect on the productivity of a person, but that is besides the point.

 

 

 

Respect the law, even though there is nothing inherently criminal or malevolent in smoking marijuana.

 

 

 

Alot of things are illegal, but due to moral reasons, and sometimes even RELIGIOUS reasons. Marijuana is illegal because if it was legal, the selling of it would just screw it all up.

 

 

 

I know many people who smoke weed. Even my uncle does it, every day or so, and he is outright into politics and news. I dont think it has effected him in any way, shape or form. He's been smoking it for 20+ years.