Suicide (Statistics, Philosophy, etc)

[hellbellz]

If you want suicide rates down, make homicide rates go up?

[Riku3220]

If you want suicide rates down, make homicide rates go up?

 

Would that make suicide rates go up because people to want to die in a bad way?

[Shinjula]

 

A few educated guesses...

 

a) He has regular access to the internet (and, at least for a time, Runescape). This implies that he has enough money and freedom to afford such a luxury.

 

B) He is writing on a Runescape fanboard, and he only recently came to understand his own sexuality. It seems very likely that he is under 30.

 

c) He is living in the 21st century, an extremely tolerant period in time compared to recent history.

 

 

 

Assuming the above assumptions stand true, then he does indeed have many desirable reasons to continue living. People would kill to be in his place.

 

Sure I can understand why you might think that but a lot of those are very relative measures, ok sure he has a roof over his head and food to eat at the moment but from his response hes not in a stable situation, and given the current climate the lack of stability of shelter is a large possibility and that is one of the most basic needs of any human

 

 

 

Your response to B) doesn't match the original statement

 

>>>B) The reality of the situation is that there are many good options and many more good reasons for you (and others like you) to continue living.

 

Just because he's 17 that doesn't necessarily imply good options or good reasons to stay here

 

 

 

As for this being a tolerant period of time, its not really, particularly towards people of a different sexuality, sure great work has been done regarding alternate lifestyles but we are a hell of a long way from being tolerant towards it, you've been active on the homosexuality thread so you've seen what people attitudes are still like - it only took me til page 2 before I found a post saying

 

Seeing as two guys having sex won't create a baby, why even do it in the first place? and why even have two guys in a relationship or married if they aren't going to have any children?

 

For pleasure, you might say? thats just sick. It is just not natural.

 

That ain't exactly the world of tolerance your implying, sure things are better now than they were ten years ago but that's because a lot of people like me spent twenty years of their lives fighting for our rights. Going back to part B) and options, being a gay man has two options 'in the closet' or out of it, neither of which are good options, 'in the closet' is full of fear and anxiety, out of the closet really does mean a life, fighting prejudice alot of the time, and sometimes from your own family.

 

 

 

But most of all lives are different and psychologies are different, your view of the world can vary dramatically even if your external situations are very similar, two people can live next door to each other with very similar lives but have drastically different reactions to them and that shouldnt just be dismissed. You can look at someone and insist that they should be happy with their lives, but face it, if they are unhappy in their life you arent going to make the slightest difference to them or change their mind because you arent understanding one of the most basic things about them.

 

 

 

 

 

On the other hand, killerbeer0 I can give you a couple of extra options which might help ease the burden a little bit. You say your at college, that should give you access to two resources which are worth trying - I cant guarantee they'll help but its worth giving them a shot. First you college probably has an LGB (Lesbian Gay Bisexual) group, go to it and talk to them. They wont require you to come out to anyone and you can do it in complete secrecy, if you wish to come out later, that'll be up to you. Second your college should also have a counselling service. USE IT. Dunno if those two things will help but absolutely push yourself to try them.

[hellbellz]

If you want suicide rates down, make homicide rates go up?

 

Would that make suicide rates go up because people to want to die in a bad way?

 

If the people get shot by another person, it technically will lower rates of suicide. :geek:

 

 

 

Well.. If you were to shoot those people about to commit suicie

[Joes_So_Cool]

Does anyone know the percent of people that after killing someone they kill themselves? (For the USA)

[raven_gaurd0]

I imagine pretty low, Joe, but I can't be bothered to look it up this Easter morning.

 

 

 

However, I do propose that as the number of casualties inflicted by a homicide go up, the suicide rate of the shooter does too.

[Joes_So_Cool]

Yeah, I'm going to be a psychologist when I grow up and have researched suicide for my career research paper before, it was a very touchy yet interesting topic.

[Zierro]

Part of me thinks that suicide is worse than murder. You are giving up on your brothers and sisters and causing them terrible grief about losing you - not to mention a guilty conscience, like "What could I have done to stop them?" Plus you are evading consequence ultimately, unlike a murderer whereas they will most likely be incarcerated.

[Shinjula]

Part of me thinks that suicide is worse than murder. You are giving up on your brothers and sisters and causing them terrible grief about losing you - not to mention a guilty conscience, like "What could I have done to stop them?" Plus you are evading consequence ultimately, unlike a murderer whereas they will most likely be incarcerated.

 

i posted this on a previous page and am curious about your perspective on it

 

To those who believe it selfish consider this, grief from the death of a love one usually takes six months to over come, the average number of close friends a person has is around a dozen, thats a total of six years unhappiness caused by the suicide, compare that to the duration left for the suicidal person in their life. It is not selfish to commit suicide it is selfish to refuse suicide (when genuine), especially as most people are not even looking at the numbers and the cumulative effect, they are in fact only looking at themselves

 

 

 

Its almost (in at least all the cases of people I have spoken to) always just a case of "Your going to make me upset for 6 months and no I dont care that you've been upset for over ten years and look like you will continue to be that way for the rest of your life"

[RichieMcD]

Part of me thinks that suicide is worse than murder. You are giving up on your brothers and sisters and causing them terrible grief about losing you - not to mention a guilty conscience, like "What could I have done to stop them?" Plus you are evading consequence ultimately, unlike a murderer whereas they will most likely be incarcerated.

 

 

 

It's just as selfish to make someone live through a life they struggle to cope with just to bring you happiness, either way whether the suicidal person commits or lives on to please other there is a selfish party.

 

 

 

Unless you've suffered from suicidal symptoms or serious depression disorders it's incredibly hard to imagine how hard it is in the persons mindset, you can't just "grow some balls and get on with it" like many people seem to think. second paragraph not aimed at you, just a general message in this topic.

[Zygimantas]

Part of me thinks that suicide is worse than murder. You are giving up on your brothers and sisters and causing them terrible grief about losing you - not to mention a guilty conscience, like "What could I have done to stop them?" Plus you are evading consequence ultimately, unlike a murderer whereas they will most likely be incarcerated.

 

 

 

It's just as selfish to make someone live through a life they struggle to cope with just to bring you happiness, either way whether the suicidal person commits or lives on to please other there is a selfish party.

 

 

 

Then it makes the person around them feel even worse, cause they know they are being selfish, or they know they can't do anything to stop it.

[RichieMcD]

Part of me thinks that suicide is worse than murder. You are giving up on your brothers and sisters and causing them terrible grief about losing you - not to mention a guilty conscience, like "What could I have done to stop them?" Plus you are evading consequence ultimately, unlike a murderer whereas they will most likely be incarcerated.

 

 

 

It's just as selfish to make someone live through a life they struggle to cope with just to bring you happiness, either way whether the suicidal person commits or lives on to please other there is a selfish party.

 

 

 

Then it makes the person around them feel even worse, cause they know they are being selfish, or they know they can't do anything to stop it.

 

 

 

That completely contradicts the point I was making, if that would make them feel worse for being selfish what would be the point of encouraging the suicidal person to live when many will be unhappy about it or when many are unhappy about it but know the cause is now at peace?

 

 

 

Your statement contradicts the complete logic of the selfish attitude as either way it's unhappiness for many or unhappiness for many - the suicidal person. The core reason behind the selfish attitude is to keep 1 happy.

[Zygimantas]

Part of me thinks that suicide is worse than murder. You are giving up on your brothers and sisters and causing them terrible grief about losing you - not to mention a guilty conscience, like "What could I have done to stop them?" Plus you are evading consequence ultimately, unlike a murderer whereas they will most likely be incarcerated.

 

 

 

It's just as selfish to make someone live through a life they struggle to cope with just to bring you happiness, either way whether the suicidal person commits or lives on to please other there is a selfish party.

 

 

 

Then it makes the person around them feel even worse, cause they know they are being selfish, or they know they can't do anything to stop it.

 

 

 

That completely contradicts the point I was making, if that would make them feel worse for being selfish what would be the point of encouraging the suicidal person to live when many will be unhappy about it or when many are unhappy about it but know the cause is now at peace?

 

 

 

Your statement contradicts the complete logic of the selfish attitude as either way it's unhappiness for many or unhappiness for many - the suicidal person. The core reason behind the selfish attitude is to keep 1 happy.

I was referring more to how the suicidal person makes others feel, or adding on to your post. I agree with part of your your 2nd paragraph tho. :

[Zierro]

To those who believe it selfish consider this, grief from the death of a love one usually takes six months to over come, the average number of close friends a person has is around a dozen, thats a total of six years unhappiness caused by the suicide, compare that to the duration left for the suicidal person in their life. It is not selfish to commit suicide it is selfish to refuse suicide (when genuine), especially as most people are not even looking at the numbers and the cumulative effect, they are in fact only looking at themselves

 

 

 

If a family member or friend dies there is nothing you can do to change the situation. Nothing can bring them back. You can get over it, but death of a loved one is probably the greatest tragedy man must face so it would be a difficult task. As for your question, it completely depends on the source of depression but let's just say that it usually has to do with peer acceptance. Let's compare dealing with the death of a loved one with not being socially accepted - which would you rather deal with? It might be subjective but I feel it puts things into perspective. Also, peer acceptance problems don't have to be permanent and they can be fixed - the only remedy for the problem of death in the family would be to get over it.

 

 

 

Of course cases of terminally ill patients or people without any social relationships would be my exception though.

 

 

 

It's just as selfish to make someone live through a life they struggle to cope with just to bring you happiness, either way whether the suicidal person commits or lives on to please other there is a selfish party.

 

 

 

It's not only your happiness we're talking about. A lot of people don't want their friends to commit suicide because they want to see them live and be happy.

 

 

 

I don't really like the word "selfish" anyways, because if you want to get technical it can be thrown around quite a lot. Our actions are derived from our wants. We don't do things that we don't want to do. Technically that's selfishness too. So yeah, I guess you could say wanting to see your friends be happy is "selfish".

 

 

 

Unless you've suffered from suicidal symptoms or serious depression disorders it's incredibly hard to imagine how hard it is in the persons mindset, you can't just "grow some balls and get on with it" like many people seem to think. second paragraph not aimed at you, just a general message in this topic.

 

 

 

Yes, you can. The only thing that would be stopping you from doing so would be yourself. That's a dangerous mentality to bring up anyways - it makes suicidal people feel even more helpless.

[Laura]

It's not only your happiness we're talking about. A lot of people don't want their friends to commit suicide because they want to see them live and be happy.

The main thing is that they are not happy and don't want to live. Going on with your life just to please someone isn't living nor is it joyous.

[Zierro]

It's not only your happiness we're talking about. A lot of people don't want their friends to commit suicide because they want to see them live and be happy.

The main thing is that they are not happy and don't want to live. Going on with your life just to please someone isn't living nor is it joyous.

 

 

 

Are you telling me there's nothing that can be done to change this?

[Laura]

It's not only your happiness we're talking about. A lot of people don't want their friends to commit suicide because they want to see them live and be happy.

The main thing is that they are not happy and don't want to live. Going on with your life just to please someone isn't living nor is it joyous.

 

 

 

Are you telling me there's nothing that can be done to change this?

If you're considering suicide as a rational possibility, I don't think so.

[Zierro]

If you're considering suicide as a rational possibility, I don't think so.

 

 

 

Numerous people have been through suicidal/depressive stages in their lives and overcame it, now living normal lives. Stop trying to make them sound like they are helpless beings who will undoubtedly be conquered by their own sadness. The problem is that they lack hope, and sorry to say this but posts that overlook the power of hope, such as that one, are counterproductive to expelling the suicidal/depressive attitudes from society.

[Laura]

If you're considering suicide as a rational possibility, I don't think so.

 

 

 

Numerous people have been through suicidal/depressive stages in their lives and overcame it, now living normal lives. Stop trying to make them sound like they are helpless beings who will undoubtedly be conquered by their own sadness. The problem is that they lack hope, and sorry to say this but posts that overlook the power of hope, such as that one, are counterproductive to expelling the suicidal/depressive attitudes from society.

No, no, the word "suicidal" can be far far away from that of "helpless." When you've come to a rational conclusion of suicide, (without reference to living being irrational) you feel or believe that life is simply put in a static state with intricate patterns masking the fruit of our world. As I said earlier, I contemplate suicide everyday, as I have for years. To say that I am constantly depressed as well as without hope is a generalized statement to those commonly expressing suicidal behavior.

[Zierro]

How so? The reason suicide is sought after is because of the lack of happiness in someone's life and how they think it's impossible to ever attain it. You said yourself that "they are not happy and don't want to live".

[killerbeer0]

How so? The reason suicide is sought after is because of the lack of happiness in someone's life and how they think it's impossible to ever attain it.

 

 

 

You look at this too absolutely... what if a person simply feels finished? Or maybe they have come to a rational decision that they would not like to participate in the world and use suicide to opt-out.

[Zierro]

You look at this too absolutely... what if a person simply feels finished? Or maybe they have come to a rational decision that they would not like to participate in the world and use suicide to opt-out.

 

 

 

Rare cases, but yes they do exist. However, Laura was talking about suicide when people don't want to live because they are not happy.

[Laura]

How so? The reason suicide is sought after is because of the lack of happiness in someone's life and how they think it's impossible to ever attain it. You said yourself that "they are not happy and don't want to live".

I most likely would commit suicide had the years in question been desolate and dismal. But there are far more reasons to commit suicide rather than unhappiness.

However, Laura was talking about suicide when people don't want to live because they are not happy.

I was referring to your statement of friends wanting the suicidal person to be happy.

[Zierro]

I most likely would commit suicide had the years in question been desolate and dismal. But there are far more reasons to commit suicide rather than unhappiness.

 

 

 

I know, but I replied in the context of unhappiness because you brought it up.

 

 

 

I said that one of the reasons friends don't want friends to commit suicide is because they want to see them be happy. You replied by saying they are not going to be happy with living though. I said that problem can be fixed, and now you guys are telling me suicide and unhappiness aren't always interrelated.

[pureprayer]

Anyway you both are misinterpreting each other. Start the argument over.