Suicide (Statistics, Philosophy, etc)

[Shinjula]

When did I say it was the only part of us

 

When you disagreed with my statement

 

But you are talking about the mind as though the conscious parts are the only thing thats is happening, that its all perfectly under our control all we have to do is to think about it and itll go away

 

I'm really confused now as to what you believe goes on in the mind now

 

 

 

Just for clearness sake, I think that there is both a conscious and a subconscious part of the mind and sometimes one has sway and sometimes the other has sway, could you describe your own picture please?

[Zierro]

I might be "hopeful" but a large part of me just wants out of the now. I need to run from myself and cannot, suicide is a way out. Permanent sure, but at what point does one stop caring?

 

 

 

What are you hopeful about?

 

 

 

Shinjula: Ah, you are right about that. My apologies. I must have interpreted that as you saying that some people have no conscious control.

[Shinjula]

Well I kinda am going to say that, almost

 

Cos theres going to be some people who have more conscious control than others and some people for whom the subconscious has more rein, and its probably going to be set out as a normal distribution, so about 2/3rd of people will be about average and 1/6th of people will have a great deal of conscious control and 1/6th will have little conscious control - I'm sure youve met people yourself who have little conscious control.

 

 

 

Given a population of 53 million people in the UK that means 8.8 million will have little conscious control

 

about 2-10% of which will suffer from severe long term depression (It could be even higher because there's a strong likelihood that depression will correlate to those with little conscious control)

 

 

 

Even at the lowest estimate thats 180,000 people suffering from severe long term depression at the end of the bell curve with little conscious control over their lives. And a small amount of those are going to be at the extreme end of the scale with only the tinyiest amount of control over their lives.

[Oiger1]

One suicide could affect someone else so much that the person who was affected would possibly committ suicide. It's a thought, right?

[Distracted]

One suicide could affect someone else so much that the person who was affected would possibly committ suicide. It's a thought, right?

 

 

 

It is, and the odds of this happening increase with every suicide. Example: (A, B, C, D, E and F all know eachother closely).

 

 

 

A commits suicide, all the others are touched, but B couldn't handle it and commited suicide. F and E both couldn't handle losing 2 of their best friends at the same time and up doing the same thing, which leaves C and D, both lost 4 of their best friends in quick succession. They can either stick together or both end up getting too depressed and commit suicide.

 

 

 

I realize this is a grim and unrealistic example, which is oversimplified, but it's the way I see it, if you lose multiple people at the same time it becomes worse.

[bemyfrend0]

Which is why many see it as the cowards way out

 

 

 

Think of the people you're leaving.

 

 

 

Possible that the rate of suicides is increasing because ignorance is increasing? People are stopping thinking of others? Maybe. Or it could be the use of worse drugs at a young age is increasing.

[Laura]

Which is why many see it as the cowards way out

 

 

 

Think of the people you're leaving.

 

 

 

Possible that the rate of suicides is increasing because ignorance is increasing? People are stopping thinking of others? Maybe. Or it could be the use of worse drugs at a young age is increasing.

Life shouldn't be considered living if you're only living for fear of what others would do without you. Why is this ignorance?

[bemyfrend0]

Which is why many see it as the cowards way out

 

 

 

Think of the people you're leaving.

 

 

 

Possible that the rate of suicides is increasing because ignorance is increasing? People are stopping thinking of others? Maybe. Or it could be the use of worse drugs at a young age is increasing.

Life shouldn't be considered living if you're only living for fear of what others would do without you. Why is this ignorance?

 

You would only fear what they would do without you if you were thinking about suicide, accidental deaths are different because you usually can't control it, though some suicides are uncontrollable. Each to their own

[killerbeer0]

Think of the people you're leaving.

Life shouldn't be considered living if you're only living for fear of what others would do without you. Why is this ignorance?

 

You would only fear what they would do without you if you were thinking about suicide

 

Laura was arguing that worrying about the people you leave behind isn't a valid reason to keep going if that's the only thing holding you back

[Laura]

Think of the people you're leaving.

Life shouldn't be considered living if you're only living for fear of what others would do without you. Why is this ignorance?

 

You would only fear what they would do without you if you were thinking about suicide

 

Laura was arguing that worrying about the people you leave behind isn't a valid reason to keep going if that's the only thing holding you back

Yes. If that's the only thing you have a second-thought for, you've been dead for awhile now.

[fastortoise]

I strongly believe that suicide depends on the height at which society places the bar for reasons to commit suicide. Here's an example from Malcolm Gladwell's book The Tipping Point to demonstrate my (or his) point.

 

 

 

There was a secluded island in the Caribbeans where suicide rates were rock bottom low. This is because suicide was considered the worst possible solution to a problem, and was never justifiable to the townspeople. So, if a farmer lost his land in a flood and could not feed his family anymore, he wouldn't kill himself as opposed to someone in the US for example. Their society placed the bar for reasons to kill themselves really high. One day, though, a romantic was caught having to chose between two lovers for marriage. To him, someone who did not conform to societies rules (he had 2 lovers after all), this choice was unbearable and he off'ed himself. The bar was lowered.

 

 

 

A month later, after a heartbreaking breakup, a young teenager commits suicide. Another month later, more and more of the village's romantics kill themselves. Perhaps now farmers who lost all their crops will convince themselves to commit suicide. I think you get my point now.

 

 

 

Sure, there are mental factors to consider in suicide, just like there are many factors in every aspect of everything. But the driving force behind killing yourself or not, according to me, is that bar set by society. This philosophy also explains why there are different suicide rates in every country, even in every town.

[mmmcannibalism]

I strongly believe that suicide depends on the height at which society places the bar for reasons to commit suicide. Here's an example from Malcolm Gladwell's book The Tipping Point to demonstrate my (or his) point.

 

 

 

There was a secluded island in the Caribbeans where suicide rates were rock bottom low. This is because suicide was considered the worst possible solution to a problem, and was never justifiable to the townspeople. So, if a farmer lost his land in a flood and could not feed his family anymore, he wouldn't kill himself as opposed to someone in the US for example. Their society placed the bar for reasons to kill themselves really high. One day, though, a romantic was caught having to chose between two lovers for marriage. To him, someone who did not conform to societies rules (he had 2 lovers after all), this choice was unbearable and he off'ed himself. The bar was lowered.

 

 

 

A month later, after a heartbreaking breakup, a young teenager commits suicide. Another month later, more and more of the village's romantics kill themselves. Perhaps now farmers who lost all their crops will convince themselves to commit suicide. I think you get my point now.

 

 

 

Sure, there are mental factors to consider in suicide, just like there are many factors in every aspect of everything. But the driving force behind killing yourself or not, according to me, is that bar set by society. This philosophy also explains why there are different suicide rates in every country, even in every town.

 

 

 

Very interesting, makes quite a bit of sense.

[Powman3]

Bullying is a big reason, I think we can all agree. Maybe to end the pain of losing someone, or to just be better off dead if you have ALS or Huntington's Disease.

 

 

 

It's not fun. Little kids are even killing themselves because there are jerks at school who act like they're the best. Schools are definitely not doing enough.

[IGoddessI]

But when we're talking about people with chronic depression - people who are sad even when good things happen - then all that is needed is a turnaround in their mentality.

 

 

 

Two words for you, dopamine & serotonin. Study - and you'll understand that you actually need to replenish and balance both chemicals in clinical depression before you can reach a 'turn around' mentality.