Pope Endorses Palestinian State

[Robert_de_Sable]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 82791.html

 

 

 

Are you [bleep]ing kidding me? I've about had it with these disgusting savages in Palestine. It's Israeli land and they need to piss off.

 

Thoughts?

[Dizzle229]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/pope-in-israel-calls-for-palestinian-homeland-1682791.html

 

 

 

Are you [bleep] kidding me? I've about had it with these disgusting savages in Palestine.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I... Its ju...

 

 

 

#-o

[Robert_de_Sable]

Before I get another group of reactionary Liberals E-screaming at me, please know that I am not referring to the general population of Palestine.

[Dizzle229]

Before I get another group of reactionary Liberals E-screaming at me, please know that I am not referring to the general population of Palestine.

 

 

 

But you kinda generalized there. You may wanna edit the main post before the Sri Lanka thread train gets here.

[Robert_de_Sable]

Naw, they'll all see that. You really need to be a deluded moron to assume I'm talking about all of Palestine here. Or just really immature.

 

Either way, I'm referring to the suicide bombers.

[Alg]

Naw, they'll all see that. You really need to be a deluded moron to assume I'm talking about all of Palestine here. Or just really immature.

 

Either way, I'm referring to the suicide bombers.

 

From their point of view, it's their land though, so...

 

Violence is rarely justified in something like that though.

[Lenticular_J]

Well, there's a reason there're suicide bombers. One reason is they're pissed that thanks to all of Israel's help from the west, the countries surrounding have lost tons of land and lives. If you'll look at a comparison between Israel's original size and the size of Israel now, you'll understand.

 

 

 

Now. The Arab countries surrounding have been total [bleep]s the last sixty years. They've invaded and attacked numerous times, all disastrous for both sides. But that's not to say Israel is the victim. If anybody is, I'd say it's the Palestinians. Most of them are terribly poor and caught between everyone fighting for the middle of bum-[bleep] nowhere. Now, thanks to Hamas (which has tons of backing and upper-echelon guys from other Arab nations), Israel pretty much hates Palestine. Palestinians are prone to massive delays when reaching checkpoints, random searches, and of course, the constant threat of some soldier from either side getting an itchy trigger finger.

 

 

 

Everybody's really at fault over there, if you generalize. And I can honestly say I don't understand it period. It must be some sort of insane political agenda. I can understand Palestinians that have lived on the same track of land since the Turks ruled the region being pissed, but that's all. Religion? Please. Islam and Judaism are the two most similar religions in the world. They dislike most of the same things, they like most of the same things, and 9 out of 10 Islamic prophets and other holy folk are the same for Judaism - in fact, according to dogma, they are all descendants of Abraham. Muslims just came from the other son (Ishmael, I do believe).

 

 

 

So it's pretty crazy ya'll. I mean, if you're looking at land ... Palestinians under Ottoman Turks: Roughly 1300 years. Before that it was a mishmash, although Jews were still fairly dominant. Before that, the to-be Muslims and to-be Jews were cousins.

 

 

 

C'mon. C'mooooooooon.

[Orpheus]

Well, there's a reason there're suicide bombers. One reason is they're pissed that thanks to all of Israel's help from the west, the countries surrounding have lost tons of land and lives. If you'll look at a comparison between Israel's original size and the size of Israel now, you'll understand.

 

 

 

Now. The Arab countries surrounding have been total [bleep]s the last sixty years. They've invaded and attacked numerous times, all disastrous for both sides. But that's not to say Israel is the victim. If anybody is, I'd say it's the Palestinians. Most of them are terribly poor and caught between everyone fighting for the middle of bum-[bleep] nowhere. Now, thanks to Hamas (which has tons of backing and upper-echelon guys from other Arab nations), Israel pretty much hates Palestine. Palestinians are prone to massive delays when reaching checkpoints, random searches, and of course, the constant threat of some soldier from either side getting an itchy trigger finger.

 

 

 

Everybody's really at fault over there, if you generalize. And I can honestly say I don't understand it period. It must be some sort of insane political agenda. I can understand Palestinians that have lived on the same track of land since the Turks ruled the region being pissed, but that's all. Religion? Please. Islam and Judaism are the two most similar religions in the world. They dislike most of the same things, they like most of the same things, and 9 out of 10 Islamic prophets and other holy folk are the same for Judaism - in fact, according to dogma, they are all descendants of Abraham. Muslims just came from the other son (Ishmael, I do believe).

 

 

 

So it's pretty crazy ya'll. I mean, if you're looking at land ... Palestinians under Ottoman Turks: Roughly 1300 years. Before that it was a mishmash, although Jews were still fairly dominant. Before that, the to-be Muslims and to-be Jews were cousins.

 

 

 

C'mon. C'mooooooooon.

 

Yeah, things are in a bit of a mess over there sadly.

[i_love_burritos]

Yeah, it's not really a fair fight for Israel. Poor Israel. Palestine has the support of all the Islamic nations and we all know how they just hate Jews. Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia. Plus I like the Israeli's contingency plan. I mean these are dedicated bastards. Ok. You kill one more Israeli citizen, WE RUIN your [cabbage]. And they did. 1600 dead. Why can't they just live peacefully. I mean the Zionist movement is OLD. The Israelis don't have certain fundamentalist factions, in fact they live peacefully. It's only when provoked. I mean I'd be pissed if there were rocket attacks on my home soil. Also, their anti-terrorist policies are ones which all nations should adopt. You know the real reason why people in the mass demonstrations wear face masks ? Because if their face is shown, I'm serious here, the Israelis will find them. And kill them. Interesting stuff. Personally, I'm all for a Zionist state. and I'm pro peace, and pro Israel. Nothing wrong with Palestinians but everyone should just - live. Ya' know ?

 

 

 

Oh, and lets not forget about HAMAS. Money from Saudi is being pumped. Everyone wants the Jews dead. [in that area] Why ?

 

 

 

Come ooooon. Just live. Be nice. Happy Happy times.

[blushenka]

The pope is an idiot.

 

 

 

I like how he manages to annoy everyone.

[Bauke]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/pope-in-israel-calls-for-palestinian-homeland-1682791.html

 

 

 

Are you [bleep] kidding me? I've about had it with these disgusting savages in Palestine. It's Israeli land and they need to piss off.

 

Thoughts?

 

Yeah, after Israel stole the land in the first place. Know your history. I'd say the palestines have just as much right on their own state as the israeli's have. I do not condone the terrorism by certain groups of palestinian people, but you can't generalize a whole population like that, and deny them the right to their own lands.

[1_man_army]

Yeah, it's not really a fair fight for Israel. Poor Israel. Palestine has the support of all the Islamic nations and we all know how they just hate Jews. Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia. Plus I like the Israeli's contingency plan. I mean these are dedicated bastards. Ok. You kill one more Israeli citizen, WE RUIN your [cabbage]. And they did. 1600 dead. Why can't they just live peacefully. I mean the Zionist movement is OLD. The Israelis don't have certain fundamentalist factions, in fact they live peacefully. It's only when provoked. I mean I'd be pissed if there were rocket attacks on my home soil. Also, their anti-terrorist policies are ones which all nations should adopt. You know the real reason why people in the mass demonstrations wear face masks ? Because if their face is shown, I'm serious here, the Israelis will find them. And kill them. Interesting stuff. Personally, I'm all for a Zionist state. and I'm pro peace, and pro Israel. Nothing wrong with Palestinians but everyone should just - live. Ya' know ?

 

 

 

Oh, and lets not forget about HAMAS. Money from Saudi is being pumped. Everyone wants the Jews dead. [in that area] Why ?

 

 

 

 

Israel has the unqualified support of the USA and the west to a lesser extent. That more than outweights Palestines support from the Arab world.

 

 

 

Collectively punishing an entire population for the actions of a small number of extremists is immoral. Not only that but it improves the support of the extremists and ultimately benefits them rather than Israel.

 

 

 

Israel does have fundamentalist factions, one of them killed the man who I feel could have become the most influential Israeli leader ever - Yitzhak Rabin. In fact, their current ruling party Likud still seeks to not only rule Israeli land as it is currently but also the entire West Bank and Gaza Strip (ie force the Palestinians out and move Jews in). That being said, Likud still isn't as repugnant as Avigdor Lieberman who is essentially a thug.

 

 

 

Edit - Also, Saudi Arabia's support for Hamas has been dwindling for many years, their core support is really from Iran nowadays as far as I'm aware.

[Matok]

The 2 lands for 2 nations concept is widely accepted in the Israeli public.

 

 

 

 

Collectively punishing an entire population for the actions of a small number of extremists is immoral. Not only that but it improves the support of the extremists and ultimately benefits them rather than Israel..

 

you know and i know this is not a "small number of extremists" and yes ,as already said, for the Hamas its usually a win-win.

 

 

 

 

Israel does have fundamentalist factions, one of them killed the man who I feel could have become the most influential Israeli leader ever - Yitzhak Rabin.

 

 

true, Rabin was a great man.

 

 

 

 

In fact, their current ruling party Likud still seeks to not only rule Israeli land as it is currently but also the entire West Bank and Gaza Strip (ie force the Palestinians out and move Jews in).

 

Where did you get these ideas from? I'd say its a wish of some of the extremist on our side but

 

its not gonna happen and noone (noone sane ) is still "seeking" this option.

 

 

That being said, Likus still isn't as repugnant as Avigdor Lieberman who is essentially a thug.

 

 

agree

[1_man_army]

The 2 lands for 2 nations concept is widely accepted in the Israeli public.

 

 

 

 

Collectively punishing an entire population for the actions of a small number of extremists is immoral. Not only that but it improves the support of the extremists and ultimately benefits them rather than Israel..

 

you know and i know this is not a "small number of extremists" and yes ,as already said, for the Hamas its usually a win-win.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Compared to similar groups Hamas is large, I was referring to them as small in comparison to the overall percentage of the Palestinian population.

 

 

 

As for the Likud point, it is still in their charter, it is a policy that they advocate. They may not be activley attempting to achieve this at the moment but it is still one of their stated goals.

 

 

 

* The 1999 Likud charter emphasized the right of settlement in "Judea (and) Samaria" (more commonly known as the "West Bank") and Gaza,"[8] and as such, brings it into direct conflict with Palestinian claims on the same territory. Similarly, their claims of the Jordan river as the permanent eastern border to Israel and Jerusalem as "the eternal, united capital of the State of Israel and only of Israel," do the same.

 

 

 

* The 'Peace & Security' chapter of the 1999 Likud Party platform flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The chapter continued: The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state.[8]

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Likud#Likud_charter

[Lenticular_J]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/pope-in-israel-calls-for-palestinian-homeland-1682791.html

 

 

 

Are you [bleep] kidding me? I've about had it with these disgusting savages in Palestine. It's Israeli land and they need to piss off.

 

Thoughts?

 

Yeah, after Israel stole the land in the first place. Know your history. I'd say the palestines have just as much right on their own state as the israeli's have. I do not condone the terrorism by certain groups of palestinian people, but you can't generalize a whole population like that, and deny them the right to their own lands.

 

After the Turks took it after the Christians after the Hebrews after the Persians after the Hebrews after the Syrians after the Romans...

 

 

 

I could understand all that fighting if it was over somewhere nice. Eastern Mediterranean, not so nice.

[1_man_army]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/pope-in-israel-calls-for-palestinian-homeland-1682791.html

 

 

 

Are you [bleep] kidding me? I've about had it with these disgusting savages in Palestine. It's Israeli land and they need to piss off.

 

Thoughts?

 

Yeah, after Israel stole the land in the first place. Know your history. I'd say the palestines have just as much right on their own state as the israeli's have. I do not condone the terrorism by certain groups of palestinian people, but you can't generalize a whole population like that, and deny them the right to their own lands.

 

After the Turks took it after the Christians after the Hebrews after the Persians after the Hebrews after the Syrians after the Romans...

 

 

 

I could understand all that fighting if it was over somewhere nice. Eastern Mediterranean, not so nice.

 

 

 

It has great religious significance for 3 major religions which is a big factor.

[Lenticular_J]

Yeah, that's what I don't get. I don't get why God would choose such a bad place for the holiest city. Crossroads of thousands of civilizations. Dang. Throw the Dome of the Rock, Western Wall, and Church of the Sepulchre in Las Vegas and everyone will be happy in an hour.

[i_love_burritos]

Yeah, after Israel stole the land in the first place. Know your history

 

 

 

:roll:

[Matok]

 

As for the Likud point, it is still in their charter, it is a policy that they advocate. They may not be activley attempting to achieve this at the moment but it is still one of their stated goals.

 

...

 

This is the difference between fantasy and reality.

 

Netanyahu might still have some wet dreams that involves the Palestinians and the sea ,but if you look at his first term as a prime-minister you'll see that he didn't do [cabbage] to promote this agenda (or any other agenda except political survival).

 

check also Arik Sharon,who once was on the right side of the Likud, but as a prime-minister abandon the "Full-Israel-Land" concept.

[Robert_de_Sable]

 

Yeah, after Israel stole the land in the first place.

 

You're a [wagon]. Edit this post so it makes you look like less of an idiot.

[1_man_army]

 

As for the Likud point, it is still in their charter, it is a policy that they advocate. They may not be activley attempting to achieve this at the moment but it is still one of their stated goals.

 

...

 

This is the difference between fantasy and reality.

 

Netanyahu might still have some wet dreams that involves the Palestinians and the sea ,but if you look at his first term as a prime-minister you'll see that he didn't do [cabbage] to promote this agenda (or any other agenda except political survival).

 

check also Arik Sharon,who once was on the right side of the Likud, but as a prime-minister abandon the "Full-Israel-Land" concept.

 

 

 

I hope he doesn't take steps to achieve it (and I don't think he will) but my wider point is that that while the west rightly condemns Hamas for having in its charter that they want to destroy Israel while they say very little about this Likud charter.

 

 

 

I think the West and more specifically America has to take a more even hand when defending the rights and condemning the wrongs of both sides. Currently, there seems to be little to no pressure on the Israeli government to commit to and move towards a two state solution and this gives Hamas and other extreme groups to improve their support by creating a 'them against us' mentality. Of course, I admit to simplifying slightly here there are obviously larger issues that can be argued but small symbolic gestures can be made (for example increased access for aid agencies) to restart the process.

[Faux]

Do you guys seriously think that other Arab countries care about the Palestinians?

 

 

 

If they really did, they would've offered refuge to these poor souls. Take a look at Saudi Arabia which is near Israel. Largest country in the Arab Peninsula with a pop density of 11 people PER km2 and they can't forsake a tiny piece of their land to give to the Palestinians.

[1_man_army]

Do you guys seriously think that other Arab countries care about the Palestinians?

 

 

 

If they really did, they would've offered refuge to these poor souls. Take a look at Saudi Arabia which is near Israel. Largest country in the Arab Peninsula with a pop density of 11 people PER km2 and they can't forsake a tiny piece of their land to give to the Palestinians.

 

 

 

A lot of Palestinians did take refuge in the neighbouring Arab nations during and the war in 1948. The ones who remained in Gaza and the West Bank did so because they feel that the land is rightfully theirs. Of course some Arab nations exploit the plight of the Palestinian people in order to gain favour with their own public and as a tool to bash Israel but to say none of them don't care is slightly unfair.

 

 

 

As for Saudi Arabia's population density - it is full of inhabitable dessert.

[Bauke]

 

Yeah, after Israel stole the land in the first place.

 

You're a [wagon]. Edit this post so it makes you look like less of an idiot.

 

I suggest you speak for yourself.

 

 

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/pope-in-israel-calls-for-palestinian-homeland-1682791.html

 

 

 

Are you [bleep] kidding me? I've about had it with these disgusting savages in Palestine. It's Israeli land and they need to piss off.

 

Thoughts?

 

Yeah, after Israel stole the land in the first place. Know your history. I'd say the palestines have just as much right on their own state as the israeli's have. I do not condone the terrorism by certain groups of palestinian people, but you can't generalize a whole population like that, and deny them the right to their own lands.

 

After the Turks took it after the Christians after the Hebrews after the Persians after the Hebrews after the Syrians after the Romans...

 

 

 

I could understand all that fighting if it was over somewhere nice. Eastern Mediterranean, not so nice.

 

True. But the point is here that the Palestinians already lived in that area when the zionists claimed their own state shortly after WW2. The Palestinian inhabits also deserve to have their own state. There's no reason why Israel can, and the Palestinians can't.

[Housepig]

Yeah, that's what I don't get. I don't get why God would choose such a bad place for the holiest city. Crossroads of thousands of civilizations. Dang. Throw the Dome of the Rock, Western Wall, and Church of the Sepulchre in Las Vegas and everyone will be happy in an hour.

 

 

 

Well, it was the people who chose it, because it wasn't such a bad place back in the dawn of civilization: http://davidderrick.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/fertile-crescent.png

 

 

 

I think you have to look at the wider historical picture to understand why it's such a mess. I'm no expert on Near East politics, but I imagine that as civilization more-or-less started there, it's bound to be heavily contested--not to mention the fact that the world's two largest religions both started in that approximate area. The centre of the most powerful human civilization has moved, but I think there's still alot of residual strife there.