Nuclear Weapons

[i_love_burritos]

Eh, I'm too lazy to properly argue anything, but here is my take on what you've said.

 

 

 

Essentially, "we" did a "good" thing when we bombed Japan. "We" saved countless lives, and on the American side too. "We" had no alternative, it was the only choice, and the best one at that. Forsaking the lives of 250,000 civilians isn't too much when the other few million are simply human collateral used to balance the scales of morality.

 

 

 

What if it had been the other way around ? You might have a different opinion.

[whocares]

Nuclear weapons are a symbol of power and of who has the power. Nothing more, nothing less. From who can make them to who has them to who wants them.

[abbydog95]

Eh, I'm too lazy to properly argue anything, but here is my take on what you've said.

 

 

 

Essentially, "we" did a "good" thing when we bombed Japan. "We" saved countless lives, and on the American side too. "We" had no alternative, it was the only choice, and the best one at that. Forsaking the lives of 250,000 civilians isn't too much when the other few million are simply human collateral used to balance the scales of morality.

 

Japanese culture is the fight till the death, they wont surrender, its just not in their culture, so in WWII america would have lost many more soldiers + the japanese civilians would have grabbed their weapons and fight till no one was left.

[i_love_burritos]

Eh, I'm too lazy to properly argue anything, but here is my take on what you've said.

 

 

 

Essentially, "we" did a "good" thing when we bombed Japan. "We" saved countless lives, and on the American side too. "We" had no alternative, it was the only choice, and the best one at that. Forsaking the lives of 250,000 civilians isn't too much when the other few million are simply human collateral used to balance the scales of morality.

 

Japanese culture is the fight till the death, they wont surrender, its just not in their culture, so in WWII america would have lost many more soldiers + the japanese civilians would have grabbed their weapons and fight till no one was left.

 

 

 

Yes, thanks for putting that up. I did not know that. It seems to me, that someone missed the point of my post. Adress the issue at hand. The whole "Japan kamikaze crazy culture death" etc... has been brought up many times. Re: several posts above you. I get it.

[Lateralus]

I don't understand the argument that the Japanese would fight to the last man and surrender under no circumstances. If this was the case the dropping a bomb would have been entirely useless. Since the Japanese did surrender after the dropping of the bomb, to say that surrender is not part of their culture is ridiculous.

[i_love_burritos]

Also, why the second bomb over Nagasaki ?

 

 

 

Surely one atomic bomb is adequate.

[RichieMcD]

Also, why the second bomb over Nagasaki ?

 

 

 

Surely one atomic bomb is adequate.

 

 

 

Because they didn't surrender after the first. Nagasaki occurred 3 days after Hiroshima which is ample time to get an idea of the potential destruction (The vast majority of the city was leveled to the ground), if they didn't surrender 2 days after the attack it was safe to say they weren't going to surrender. A second bomb convinced Japan fighting on against America was just idiotic.

 

 

 

It's a pretty sickening fact, but they still saved more lives in the long term as has been mentioned in the topic, I would have done the same if in that position as leaving it any longer gives Japan time to prepare for an invasion or mount a full scale attack on Western America and American troops based in East Asia. As I've said before though, I don't like nor condone the use of Nuclear weapons, but it was the logical choice.

[Dizzle229]

Though I believe that dropping the bombs was the right thing to do, I think they should have had more of a clear warning.

 

 

 

For months it was conventional warfare, they were told that "Japan faces destruction" if it didn't surrender. Bull. Crap.

 

 

 

There was a plan to invite Japanese officials to observe the first atomic test, but this didn't happen because allied leaders were afraid that if the test failed, it would raise Japanese moral. Turns out we probably should have. It might have ended the war right there.

[Giordano]

I don't understand the argument that the Japanese would fight to the last man and surrender under no circumstances. If this was the case the dropping a bomb would have been entirely useless. Since the Japanese did surrender after the dropping of the bomb, to say that surrender is not part of their culture is ridiculous.

 

FINALLY SOMEBODY [bleep]ING GETS IT.

 

 

 

That's as accurate as saying the American people love freedom so much that they'll go fight tyranny to the death. But we don't have a 300 million man army do we?

[baalboy5]

Why everyone talking bout the past. Shouldn't we be concern with the nukes that NK has?

 

 

 

But to be fair. I heard they have very weak ones.

[Dizzle229]

Why everyone talking bout the past. Shouldn't we be concern with the nukes that NK has?

 

 

 

But to be fair. I heard they have very weak ones.

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I think it was like 1/3 the power of the first atom bomb. Pretty powerful still, but even then they have to means of delivery.

[Lenin64]

Why everyone talking bout the past. Shouldn't we be concern with the nukes that NK has?

 

 

 

But to be fair. I heard they have very weak ones.

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I think it was like 1/3 the power of the first atom bomb. Pretty powerful still, but even then they have to means of delivery.

 

Just hope they have accurate means of delivery. Otherwise they'll go the Soviet route and just make really [bleep]ing big warheads just to make sure.

[Orpheus]

Why everyone talking bout the past. Shouldn't we be concern with the nukes that NK has?

 

 

 

But to be fair. I heard they have very weak ones.

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I think it was like 1/3 the power of the first atom bomb. Pretty powerful still, but even then they have to means of delivery.

 

Just hope they have accurate means of delivery. Otherwise they'll go the Soviet route and just make really [bleep] big warheads just to make sure.

 

I still would be concerned if anyone got their hands on nukes in the first place. Granted, it creates a sort of hierarchy that dictates who is in control, but no one group should have the power to essentially destroy the world.

 

 

 

And if they go the Soviet route, the big warheads would probably be because they're compensating. But that's just me.

[i_love_burritos]

If that's true. GOOD GOD. North Korea sucks at everything. Wanna' make nuclear weapons ? Yeah, sure go to North Korea. If you want a [bleep]ing water pistol. North Korea is the Vienna Boys Choir of the international community.

[RichieMcD]

If that's true. GOOD GOD. North Korea sucks at everything. Wanna' make nuclear weapons ? Yeah, sure go to North Korea. If you want a [bleep] water pistol. North Korea is the Vienna Boys Choir of the international community.

 

 

 

They might have poor arms yet, but now they have tested a successful Nuclear weapon they're only going to make bigger and more powerful weapons. Not to mention as well that as NK has no allies so they wont lose anything selling methods of production or actual Nuclear weapons onto terrorist organizations.

[lordkafei]

DPR Korea is no real threat at present. Sure they have tested a few nuclear weapons, but they haven't made their weapons small enough to put on a missile yet. If you can't deliver them, they really aren't a threat.

 

 

 

Which is why I don't worry about Al Queda or anyone else getting nukes - unless all those rumors about missing Soviet suitcase nukes turn out to be true. That would be a problem. :oops:

 

 

 

But I digress.

 

 

 

Rocket technology is a much bigger threat that nuclear bombs. With a good ICBM, you can deliver a pulse device and cripple electronic devices over a wide area. And it would only take one. That's what makes DPR Korea so scary. They will never build an arsenal of thousands of bombs & missiles. But they really won't need to.

 

 

 

I could also see some fundamentalist theocracy deciding to set the infidel's clocks back a few centuries with one of these.

 

 

 

On a different tack...

 

 

 

I was reading Sagan's Pale Blue Dot a few days ago, and he wrote about deflecting asteroids with nuclear weapons. But he also noted that if you can deflect an asteroid away from Earth, it follows you could deflect one towards it. So again, why do you really need huge piles of nukes when you can do the job with a handful?

 

 

 

I don't think we can take great comfort in having stockpiles of weapons at the ready. Quantity is not the issue anymore.

[deathdrow]

Rocket technology is a much bigger threat that nuclear bombs. With a good ICBM, you can deliver a pulse device and cripple electronic devices over a wide area. And it would only take one. That's what makes DPR Korea so scary. They will never build an arsenal of thousands of bombs & missiles. But they really won't need to.

 

EMP's are amazing, they'd do great for attacking small countries with confined space, but lots of people. Without electricity everyone would go crazy, reminds me of a twilight zone episode.

[das1330]

Dizzle, please go educate yourself. Aside from pointingout all the flaws in your argument, I'll add something else.

 

 

 

Saved lives, you say ?

 

 

 

What about all the pain and suffereing those two little bombs cost the Japanese people ? Radiation sickess, decimated infrastructure. A legacy that will continue for generations.I could ramble on for several pages, stating the environmental, physical and mental impact it had on Japan and it's people - but I wont. You should be able to find it out for yourself.

 

 

 

About 250,000 died in an instant, thousands more of leukemia and cancers.

 

 

 

People like you argue that it was a "lesser of the two evils". And as you said, it saved "countless lives".

 

 

 

 

 

The bombs DID save the lives of both hundreds of thousands of American troops and many many more Japanese civilians. The casualty projections for an invasion of the Japanese home islands in a style similar to operation overlord were nothing short of massive - upwards of one MILLION American troops were predicted to die in the fighting; not including the civilian or military Japanese deaths. To put that in perspective, as the casualty projections were laid out for operation downfall, factories produced the estimated number of purple heart medals that would be needed for the invasion (the purple heart is a metal given to any soldier wounded or killed in combat). They made just about one quarter of the total production run before the war ended, the production of the medals ceased. Those medals manufactured during world war two became the stockpile, and ever since then those medals have been given to any American soldier wounded or killed in battle. That stockpile just ran out last year. The decision to bomb Japan saved more lives then were lost in every war from Korea to Iraq 2. EVERY WAR.

 

Second, while the affects of radiation are terrible, before the use of the bombs those affects were unknown - radiation hazards up to that point were limited to a small group of scientists that dealt with lab experiments, not massive explosions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I ask you, why the second bomb over Nagasaki ? It was dropped 3 days later./quote]

 

 

 

Because Japan refused to surrender at that point. Shortly after Hiroshima, the emperor wished to surrender but (as had happened numerous times before) the Japanese seized effective power in the country and forced the emperor to continue to support the war. Only after the second bombing did the Japanese military decide that further fighting was pointless, and allowed the emperor to surrender.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You should stop looking down on the U.S. because they did what any other person would do.

 

 

 

No.

 

 

 

If you have read anything about anything concerning The Second World War you will know that the goverment had planned many other alternatives also, postboming Hiroshima and Nagasaki several public debates followed with many prominent scientists of the time - including many of those who were actively involved with the Manhattan Project. I suggest that you look them up. Online US archives have lengthy transcripts and letters.

 

 

 

There was a very large number of alternatives for finishing world war two; but nuking Japan proved to be the least costly way to win the war.

[Guest User]

.

[RichieMcD]

Rocket technology is a much bigger threat that nuclear bombs. With a good ICBM, you can deliver a pulse device and cripple electronic devices over a wide area. And it would only take one. That's what makes DPR Korea so scary. They will never build an arsenal of thousands of bombs & missiles. But they really won't need to.

 

EMP's are amazing, they'd do great for attacking small countries with confined space, but lots of people. Without electricity everyone would go crazy, reminds me of a twilight zone episode.

 

 

 

If we ever went to war with NK EMP's is probably what would win it for us if it didn't turn into a target for every Nuclear weapon in the world. Armies need 4 things to fight a war, ammunition, food, oil, electricity. Without electricity ammunition can't be made, oil can't be refined and producing food is much harder.

[i_love_burritos]

If that's true. GOOD GOD. North Korea sucks at everything. Wanna' make nuclear weapons ? Yeah, sure go to North Korea. If you want a [bleep] water pistol. North Korea is the Vienna Boys Choir of the international community.

 

 

 

They might have poor arms yet, but now they have tested a successful Nuclear weapon they're only going to make bigger and more powerful weapons. Not to mention as well that as NK has no allies so they wont lose anything selling methods of production or actual Nuclear weapons onto terrorist organizations.

 

 

 

WHY - CANT - I - BE - FUNNY.

 

 

 

:wall:

[deathdrow]

If that's true. GOOD GOD. North Korea sucks at everything. Wanna' make nuclear weapons ? Yeah, sure go to North Korea. If you want a [bleep] water pistol. North Korea is the Vienna Boys Choir of the international community.

 

 

 

They might have poor arms yet, but now they have tested a successful Nuclear weapon they're only going to make bigger and more powerful weapons. Not to mention as well that as NK has no allies so they wont lose anything selling methods of production or actual Nuclear weapons onto terrorist organizations.

 

 

 

WHY - CANT - I - BE - FUNNY.

 

 

 

:wall:

 

Because you generally make extremely serious and well-informed posts. But do we know for sure that NK has nukes? Or are they just saying they do?

[Dizzle229]

They have nukes, but no way to get them anywhere.

[mmmcannibalism]

[hide=]

If that's true. GOOD GOD. North Korea sucks at everything. Wanna' make nuclear weapons ? Yeah, sure go to North Korea. If you want a [bleep] water pistol. North Korea is the Vienna Boys Choir of the international community.

 

 

 

They might have poor arms yet, but now they have tested a successful Nuclear weapon they're only going to make bigger and more powerful weapons. Not to mention as well that as NK has no allies so they wont lose anything selling methods of production or actual Nuclear weapons onto terrorist organizations.

 

 

 

WHY - CANT - I - BE - FUNNY.

 

 

 

:wall:

 

Because you generally make extremely serious and well-informed posts. But do we know for sure that NK has nukes? Or are they just saying they do?

[/hide]

 

 

 

Measurements from the test they said was a nuclear weapon showed an explosive strength that they estimate had to be a nuke. I would also be willing to say our intelligence gathering has confirmed that north korea was making nuclear weapons/has tested them.

 

 

 

They have nukes, but no way to get them anywhere.

 

 

 

They are working on developing icbm technology that would allow them to hit japan and parts of the United States west coast.

[i_love_burritos]

Because you generally make extremely serious and well-informed posts.

 

 

 

Uhhh, thanks ?