Your standing on religion

[xAxelx]

WOW... never expected this

[Herr]

And another thing, from a philosophical view its bets to be a christian. Say there were 2 people, an athiest and a christian. They both die and the atheist is right. Neither suffer damnation or experience Heaven. But if the christian was right, he gets to stay in Heaven and the atheist suffers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What you are talking about is called Pascal's Wager. First of all, it does not indicate what religion to follow - there are many mutually exclusive religions out there; if you believe in one of them you may end up in the hell of another.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Implying that you have lost nothing by believing in a god is also wrong. Suppose you believe in something that is wrong - the true god may punish you for your foolishness. "You shall have no other gods besides Me...Do not make a sculpted image or any likeness of what is in the heavens above..." - that means that if you choose the wrong god to believe in then you will be punished.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, saying that god is a 'safe bet' for atheists will not convince them to TRULY believe. They would just be saying they did.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Finally, if this God is a fair and just God, surely he will judge people on their actions in life, not on whether they happen to believe in him. A God who sends good and kind people to hell is not one most atheists would be prepared to consider worshipping.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, onto my feelings on religion in general.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Religion, for anyone who considers truth to be important, is an irresponsible option. Here's something I read about a while ago:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Humans are ignorant. They don't know about life or how it works, and they want to know. The pusrpose of adopting a worldview is "to provide a basis on which to build an explanation and an understanding of the world". Which worldview we adopt plays a key role in our understanding of life and the facts of the world around us. These are the two worldviews:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Spartan meritocracy

 

 

 

This means that we assume very little (spartan) and each thing in our worldview is there only on its merits and is always up for questioning (meritocracy). Should we find something to be spurious, it is subject to enquiry and replacement should it turn out to be incorrect. With this worldview, facts can be investigated and our knowledge itself keeps evolving as we discard things which we have learnt to be untrue.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Baroque monarchy

 

 

 

This means that a large amount is assumed - a complex view of how things are involving god, the devil, angels, heaven, hell - a very exotic view (baroque). Also, you are not allowed to question that which is assumed, the assumptions stand as monarchs, they are there 'just because' and can never be replaced or subjected to rational enquiry (monarchy).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Atheists adopt the spartan mertocratic view of the world, whereas theists adopt the baroque monarchy. Atheists question the world around them and are willing to accept facts from their observations, and consider all the evidence before making a conclusion which of course is up for questioning. The theist will assume a lot in the start, then will assume that they are right and will never question it. They will try and fit reality around their worldview.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The desire to explain things is an admission of ignorance, so the starting point will always be infected with ignorance - it is inevitably wrong. So, we should be prepared to recognise it as such and to revise it when it is possible to increase its accuracy. Common sense says that the spartan meritocracy is the sensible position from which to learn about existence, in the quest for understanding it is clearly superior to the baroque monarchy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's why anyone who cares about the truth, or about understanding the world they live in and existence as a whole, will realise that the baroque monarchy and theism in general is irresponsible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is also worth noting that I say theism in general because there are religions which do not adopt the baroque monarchy - such as buddhism.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Forgive me for not understanding, but if the universe is isotropic, then how come our laws of physics wouldn't work in some areas of space? If they apply to one section of space, wouldn't they apply to them all?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It just means they are incomplete. We are still learning, yet theists seem to think they know the basis of life itself.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:D Well ya see I look at it this way. I believe in God because I believe He exhists in spite of my belief or lack thereof. I think fallacy number one in the entire 'atheist' dogma is, "We created God."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If that's a fallacy, then how come other religions have sprung up in parallel, but with different specifics?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

because lt's face it, atheism is a 'belief', not a conclusive fact; is the concept of 'entropy.'

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That is also wrong. It is a view based on facts, or lack thereof. There are no 'facts' about religion, or else it wouldn't be a faith - however it is the lack of these facts from which atheists draw their conclusions. Basically the burden of proof is on the theists.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To be honest, christians just listen to whatever the scientists of the day say happened and then say "oh yeah, that's how god did it". As time goes on, religion gets more and more childish.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

not going to flame you for your (non)religion but how can u ignore the truth everything in existence is proof that God existsi hope that you realize that God exists because even though i dont know you it pains my heart to know that people will burn in hell

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's posts like this that prevent me being a frequent visitor here. I have shared my opinion, now I won't bother on this topic any more because it's just not worth it when only half the posters can pull their heads out enough to form a reasoned argument. And I don't meant just the anti-religion ones, because there's some stupid posts by them too just as there are some well formulated (notice I don't say intelligent) posts by the theists.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's a shame zealots like Bush give religion such a bad name, too.

[Pete_the_Viscous]

What herr said, only I'd again add that it is as short sighted to abjectly believe that a god could not exist as it is to believe that a god certainly does exist.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(And I'd like to again affirm my belief -- but not certainty -- that there is no god).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit- Oh, and to those people trying to bring physics into this by saying it can't explain things or doesn't work in certain places... I'd like to see you go to these places and try it out. The only reason we don't think it "works" in these "places" is that we're guessing (educatedly) that it doesn't.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Since no-one has ever been to a black hole, we are just guessing that they exist, for instance. There are any number of ways of explaining what causes what we think of as black holes. Still, it is more sensible, I think, to try and explain these things ourself than to take the attitude that "god will fix it for us". God has other things to do, such as punishing sinners. (And yes, I realise that an omnipotent being could punish sinners and take care of the universe at the same time).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(I guess there's a ladder around here...)

[legolas777]

well im a Christian :D

 

 

 

anyway for the non believers out there dont you ever wonder why your here? well some people, mostly scientist believe in the human-cycle: were born..matured..marraid..produce baby/babies..get old and die, hoping our generation will keep going..the end. but if you know about the christian religion (having a relationship with Jesus Christ) its more than just that. also dont you ask yourself whats goin to happen when we/I die?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(the written text below was not by me)

 

 

 

Absolute Proof of God's Existence

 

 

 

get absolute proof of God's existence. One way to get proof is to die. I do not recommend this method if you have not accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. All who die get to see God. However, those who have rejected Him through their lives on earth are separated from God at the judgment, since He cannot have contact with those who insist upon holding onto their sinfulness.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

An easier (and less risky) way to get evidence for God's existence is to see if the promises of the Bible are true. The Bible promises that if you accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior that He will come into your life and that you will have a personal relationship with Him. But you need to believe first, so you can get started below. Once you believe, do the experiment and test the promises. You won't regret it.

 

 

 

-UNKNOWN

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

if your an atheist or an agnostic and want some answer check out:http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/answers.html

 

 

 

itll give you a better explination of christianity, hopefully

[HugATree]

Its probably been said before on this topic, but Christianity isnt a "religion". It's a relationship with God.

 

 

 

 

 

 

By this logic religions don't exist,they're all relationships.

 

 

 

Christianity is very much a religion, I suggest you get a dictionary.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And another thing, from a philosophical view its bets to be a christian. Say there were 2 people, an athiest and a christian. They both die and the atheist is right. Neither suffer damnation or experience Heaven. But if the christian was right, he gets to stay in Heaven and the atheist suffers.

 

 

 

Now lets throw in a Muslim, take a guess where the Atheist and Christian are going?

[wl_daniel]

Atheist

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Got nothing else to say except that religions are bull****

[HugATree]

if your an atheist or an agnostic and want some answer check out:http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/answers.html

 

 

 

itll give you a better explination of christianity, hopefully

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I had a quick look, its these people who babble pseudo-science that give the general population misinformed views about things like evolution.

[crimsonking]

 

I have recently decide I dont believe in god, which means im Atheist.

 

 

 

I just dont understand how everyone believes in it. What is your standing on this?

 

 

 

(im not sure if this is like against the rules talking about this so sorry if it is moderators)

 

 

 

(off topic) Not agaisnt the rules, but htis topic is become mighty old. Expect many things (Tons of posts, a lock, flames, ect).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This kind of tipic happens once a month...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Once a month?! Damn, things really have changed since the last time I was on here topics like this came up almost every day in the beginning of the year

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

More on topic: I believe anything is possible when it comes to religion because if you try and think about how we came to be logically you won't find any possible theory of how we came to exist

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are those religions that I favor more than others but there really isn't any way we can find out for sure what the truth is while we live in this plain of existance

[Guest]

in my opinion religion is just groups of people fighting over who has the best imaginary friend.

[MyPurpleCrayon]

in my opinion religion is just groups of people fighting over who has the best imaginary friend.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nice job showing how much you do not know.

[Death_By_Pod]

 

 

 

Since no-one has ever been to a black hole, we are just guessing that they exist, for instance. There are any number of ways of explaining what causes what we think of as black holes. Still, it is more sensible, I think, to try and explain these things ourself than to take the attitude that "god will fix it for us". God has other things to do, such as punishing sinners. (And yes, I realise that an omnipotent being could punish sinners and take care of the universe at the same time).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Umm, Black holes can be 'seen', they can't be seen with light by they do produce other noticeable effects such as high frequency emission, relativistic jets and abnormal periodic motion of satellites. The fact that you can't see a black hole is a consequence of relativity but that doesnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t mean that it doesn't 'communicate' information to us.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.mpe.mpg.de/ir/GC/index.php Is a webpage which provides evidence (including a movie detailing star orbits) that Sagittarius A* is a super massive black hole sitting in the centre of our galaxy. This kind of stuff isn't science fiction; they have been studied for years the animation starts with observations from 1992.

[legolas777]

 

if your an atheist or an agnostic and want some answer check out:http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/answers.html

 

 

 

itll give you a better explination of christianity, hopefully

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I had a quick look, its these people who babble pseudo-science that give the general population misinformed views about things like evolution.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

are you really positive on that? if you can see they provide clear evidence rather than just saying "hey science is false blah blah". you get what I mean.

 

 

 

so what can you say about evolution? honestly if you say and agree that evolution was to have happened, why do "we" still ask the most popular question that today (the 21st century) dont see evolution occuring? please answer

[madchild]

I am Christian, i wasn't brought up as one, which says something. I go to a church which is not near where i live, its in an industrial estate. We sing christian rock songs and stuff. Its brilliant

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Another Reason why i believe in God, is that i feel the holy spirit. Everyday. Its truely amazing.

[zzammy_wiz]

Im Jewish, allthough I dont really "follow" it, maybe there is a god but not someone in space sitting on there throne, someone without a body, If there was I think he wouldent of made the world or anything like that anyway I dont even know if I belive that, plus Im only 11 years old.

[HugATree]

 

 

 

so what can you say about evolution? honestly if you say and agree that evolution was to have happened, why do "we" still ask the most popular question that today (the 21st century) dont see evolution occuring? please answer

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Most popular questions aren't about evolution at all, like "where did life come from?"

 

 

 

Evolution is seen in genetics, bone and organ structure. If someone hasn't seen evolution, they either haven't looked, or don't want to.

[d-von]

i am an anticrist... my mother is a believer i didnt, then the whole group of cristians start calling me a devilschild, i got stalked. some cristains talked with me about jezus but they kept comming closer to me i felt i as going to be abused and stuff... they had to insult me for more than 5 year and they still dont quit... they cant see me as a normal human.. so i started to insult them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

im 16 and they are still trying to convince me god exsists, i wont believe.. on one side they try to convince me and on the other side they insult me..

[Rizla]

Bah, Religion. I would say i have no problem with it, but i can't even say "merry christmas" in my own country for fear of offending someone.

[Pete_the_Viscous]

 

 

 

 

Since no-one has ever been to a black hole, we are just guessing that they exist, for instance. There are any number of ways of explaining what causes what we think of as black holes. Still, it is more sensible, I think, to try and explain these things ourself than to take the attitude that "god will fix it for us". God has other things to do, such as punishing sinners. (And yes, I realise that an omnipotent being could punish sinners and take care of the universe at the same time).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Umm, Black holes can be 'seen', they can't be seen with light by they do produce other noticeable effects such as high frequency emission, relativistic jets and abnormal periodic motion of satellites. The fact that you can't see a black hole is a consequence of relativity but that doesnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t mean that it doesn't 'communicate' information to us.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.mpe.mpg.de/ir/GC/index.php Is a webpage which provides evidence (including a movie detailing star orbits) that Sagittarius A* is a super massive black hole sitting in the centre of our galaxy. This kind of stuff isn't science fiction; they have been studied for years the animation starts with observations from 1992.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Do you not think I'm aware of what people think about black holes? I stand by what I said: no-one has ever seen a black hole, as, by their very nature, they cannot be seen. All those things you have mentioned are not "seeing"* a black hole, they are seeing the effects of a black hole, which is very different. My whole point was that we can see only the effects of black holes, so we can only do the obvious and make assumptions as to what causes them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What you don't seem to have got from what I said is that no-one knows. No-one can know any of these things. This is why I think it weak to believe unshakably that there is a god, and arrogant to abjectly believe there could be no god. We can only guess.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's not science fiction only insofar as it has not as yet been proved wrong. I'm not saying it is wrong, either; just that it might possibly be: that's the big difference between science and religion (other than all the maths) -- that they admit that they might be wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*If you really want to argue about it, no-one can "see" anything; it's just the effect of the light on our eyes, which could, I suppose, be explained any number of other ways. All I'm saying is that the evidence for real, tangible things is far more potent than that for black holes.

[insane]

Bah, Religion. I would say i have no problem with it, but i can't even say "merry christmas" in my own country for fear of offending someone.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hrmm, is where you're from that much against it? I live in Canada and I could say Merry Christmas to anyone and I doubt anyone would get offended. Crazy world....

[runesmithie]

i am an anticrist... my mother is a believer i didnt, then the whole group of cristians start calling me a devilschild, i got stalked. some cristains talked with me about jezus but they kept comming closer to me i felt i as going to be abused and stuff... they had to insult me for more than 5 year and they still dont quit... they cant see me as a normal human.. so i started to insult them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

im 16 and they are still trying to convince me god exsists, i wont believe.. on one side they try to convince me and on the other side they insult me..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's not really antichrist ;)

 

 

 

More of an atheist :P

[HugATree]

Who would you offend by saying merry christmas? I know some Christians who refuse to celebrate it because it has roots in non-christian beliefs, guess they could find it offensive.

[zzammy_wiz]

well, before I say anything (i've yet to read all the replys to this thread, so this is my own thoughts) I'm going to quote something.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Matter can not be created nor destroyed

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As humans, we have set a rule that say's the above. This in it's self can confuse a lot of people.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If... matter couldn't be created, than how did the universe come about. And don't say the big bang, because where did the stuff for the big bang come about?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But.. if you take it from the religious stand point and say "god created it all", how was god created? How was anything created in fact. It's all a very confusing deal if you keep that simple rule/law in mind.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

however, there must have been something around it. For me, I would have to say there is a god. However, I guess you could say my views on it are slightly different:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-Evolution. Yes, it happened, we have plenty of proof. No, god didn't create the earth, but perhaps he created what caused the big bang.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-The Bible. To me, it's just a good book with plenty of good moral stories in it. I truly don't think that 95% of that stuff actualy happened. Yeah, it's there to teach, not to be a history book.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, i'm going to talk about something slightly different. As children we are taught to belive, or not to belive in god/ect. At an early age our parrents basicly control our beliefs. However, as we grow older , much like santa and the easter bunny, we start to make our own decisions about whats real and not real. Most children in the example I gave soon find out that the 2 are not real.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But what about god in general? Usualy the idea is pressed on into a child's head, that god exists or does not exist. Thus, it's not untill they grow up more, possibly in their middle teens i'd have to say, that they start realy making their own decisions. For most it's a matter of a few things.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-Events in your life. A lot of times a bad tragedy can bring people to religion. Religion in my idea is also a comfort, knowing that something else is waiting for you after you die.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-How "strict" their parrents were. Basicly said, if you had a very loosly religious family, I.E maybe went to church each week or on holiday's then you might start to think of your own belifs. But if your family was realy religious, you might be completly against the whole thing (in spite) or for it (because they have been taught that way)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

so basicly said, like Bubsa pointed out I wouldn't call my self any of the above. I have to say that I live my own life. Yes, as of now I am considered a Christian for I am still under legal custody of my parrents. I go to church on special ocasions, holidays and the likes, but that's about it. I prefer to belive what I wish based off of what I have observed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Theres another one, something like this "Energy can not be created or destroyd" thats wrong: when we have a picture in are head, thats energy when it goes away its destroyd, something like that.

[runesmithie]

It's actually placed elsewhere ;)

 

 

 

Energy is never destroyed :P

[zzammy_wiz]

Lets clear this up, who and what is god?

[d-von]

 

i am an anticrist... my mother is a believer i didnt, then the whole group of cristians start calling me a devilschild, i got stalked. some cristains talked with me about jezus but they kept comming closer to me i felt i as going to be abused and stuff... they had to insult me for more than 5 year and they still dont quit... they cant see me as a normal human.. so i started to insult them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

im 16 and they are still trying to convince me god exsists, i wont believe.. on one side they try to convince me and on the other side they insult me..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's not really antichrist ;)

 

 

 

More of an atheist :P

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i hate all cristians, they ruined my pride for me :evil: