Hegemony-V2 begins page 302

[Wisp]

I thought stations took 20 times the cost of which it outputs?

I've been working with 25 times. But either way. Actually, my stations are slightly better than average do to unique technology and bonuses so I'll stick with 25 times even if other people are doing 20 times.

[archimage_a]

Doom, why did you insist on using your system, now everyone is confused.

 

Grim has multi-purpose ships which can turn into stations, but they take 3 years to convert to and back.

 

I think the major problem is that you(doom) want the game to take longer, but the game advances by years at a time! A battleship shouldn't take 1/2 a year to build.

 

Ah whatever.

 

Ok Grim has a rule of 3's. Takes 3 years to convert, multi-stations produce 30 PP per year, multi-ships cost 300 PP to build.

Everyone else has a rule of 2's. Stations take 2000 PP to build and produce 200 PP.

 

So things pay for themselves off after 10 years.

[Retech]

Wait, I thought it was 20 times the cost. Do I get to double the number of stations I have? :)

[archimage_a]

No. It is from now on.

[Retech]

Aww, I just went on a major station spree. Well, according to your system, then my stations are the same price, but produce double. :)

[Wisp]

Archi, the only reason it's confusing is because you let people create alternate systems when we had one set one. And a battleship doesn't take half a year to produce, it takes less than a month. 1 station can put out 20 a year. The game's not progressing slower, it just mean each ship is worth more individually, and that people aren't going to be throwing armadas of 100,000 ships at eachother.

At the rate of 20 times the cost 50 stations would turn into 216 in just a real month. Those 216 stations could build in total 4320 battleships a year. Or, in another month of station producing they could be 933 stations. That produces over 18,000 battleships a year. Isn't that enough?

With your system after a month there would be over 800 stations, and a month later there would be 15 thousand stations. One month after that there would be 265 thousand stations, spitting out 500,000 battleships or more a year. I think that's hugely excessive. If I had my way battleships would actually matter in combat, and we wouldn't be able to spit out thousands instantly.

[archimage_a]

Archi, the only reason it's confusing is because you let people create alternate systems when we had one set one

Ok, I was annoyed when I accused you, this is no one's fault it is just the games dynamic and the forum structure.

Different races, different technologies should increase or decrease building times and such. Just creating 1 rule for everyone goes against the free spirit of the game.

The forum means that things are not agreed they are just posted and no one wants to contest the post at that time. In time people come up with new arguments or forget that was agreed and don't have time or inclination to look it up.

 

At the rate of 20 times the cost 50 stations would turn into 216 in just a real month. Those 216 stations could build in total 4320 battleships a year. Or, in another month of station producing they could be 933 stations. That produces over 18,000 battleships a year. Isn't that enough?

Like I said I was annoyed. I don't like the speed at which the game moves...a year is a massive amount of time to cover in 1 day.

 

 

With your system after a month there would be over 800 stations, and a month later there would be 15 thousand stations. One month after that there would be 265 thousand stations, spitting out 500,000 battleships or more a year. I think that's hugely excessive. If I had my way battleships would actually matter in combat, and we wouldn't be able to spit out thousands instantly.

Yeah...I just have a perfect system(in my head, at least), where there are checks and balances to prevent people from doing that...like manpower and money.

 

I also don't really like the idea of PP, it means weapon research is practically worthless and how would you do special abilites? The game thrives on people being creative and the PP system just seems to stop that happening...

[The Dark Lord]

Which is why I chose to not use the PP system. Archi knows more about this, of course. Everything I do is based off of creativity and put together like a storyline.

 

@Archi:

 

Are you ready to do the Q&A on Vanessa?

[archimage_a]

Yeah, I can do.

[Retech]

The Notes makes the creativity. Besides, a standardized system is needed when lots of people's creativity is squished together. How do you possibly compare two different "ultimate" battleships against each other unless a system is used?

[Wisp]

Don't ships have bonuses or something that we give to you before combat? Otherwise every battle would just be basically a game of war (card game), the bigger number wins. And seeing as the combined fleet of dusty and mine was worth a good 3 or 4 times more than the Orz fleet that we were defeated by obviously there's still strategy and weapon bonuses and all that.

Sere, that's all well and good but the real problem is that with that someone ends up being overpowered, and someone underpowered. Someone might think it's reasonable for their production station to produce a dozen battleships a year, and someone might thing it's reasonable that it produces 20. It's obvious who would win in a battle there.

 

Retech also has a point. If I say I'm building a huge ship, I can apply a number and value to that ship. Whereas without a system, it's just a huge ship and it's arbitrarily equal to any other "huge" ships.

 

Here's the summary of my system:

 

Producing a station on a planet takes 5 years, but this can only be done for 10 stations.

Each station puts out 200 PP per year.

 

Here are the prices of ships, in order.

 

Fighter-1

Escort-5

Battleship-10

Heavy Battleship-100

Super Battleship-1000

Ultra Battleship-2000

Production Station-4000

 

Then you can have custom ships (as long as you research them.) I have:

Hellfire Cruisers-1000

Railship-5000

Dreadnought-10000

Mega Cruiser-100000

 

It's really not that complicated, and I think we had a system where you can give ship's notes for 500 points (or one free note for ultras and above) that give it a special power, like the ability to self destruct and cause massive damage to nearby enemies or whatever.

 

EDIT: There were also non-combat ships like mining/harvesting ships for 10, and various capacity transports for various prices.

[Grim_]

A production station costs 5000 to build, and it puts out 200 per year.

 

A battleship (really small) costs 10pp

Heavy costs 100 pp

Super 1000pp

Ultra 2000pp

 

For reference, my "Invasion" fleet, the one in the local area has a total value of 314,250 PP. My main fleet in Tefarn is still kept somewhat under wraps.

:o so with my multi purpose ships (battle ships) I can produce 20 from a station and wait 3 years (specified time from archi for some balance of transformation) and then have 20 production stations. Seems a bit overpowered but I am not going to complain...

Wait, what did Archi do? That's not how it works. A single station producing another station would take 25 years.

Okay my multi purpose ships were my colony ships and had several other uses (Ie. really bad battle ships and production stations) if you want I can alter the ship cost but that would be it's "note" so I would only be willing to make it say... 300 pp at maximum.

EDIT: Disregard said statement...

[archimage_a]

How do you possibly compare two different "ultimate" battleships against each other unless a system is used?

How indeed....

 

Don't ships have bonuses or something that we give to you before combat? Otherwise every battle would just be basically a game of war (card game), the bigger number wins. And seeing as the combined fleet of dusty and mine was worth a good 3 or 4 times more than the Orz fleet that we were defeated by obviously there's still strategy and weapon bonuses and all that.

 

You should yes. But how do I work these out? I mean the weapons are fictional and never explained to me.

The Orz were special cases because I knew their ships inside out.

Its part of the reason I wanted the module system, but people wanted to keep it simple...

 

Sere, that's all well and good but the real problem is that with that someone ends up being overpowered, and someone underpowered. Someone might think it's reasonable for their production station to produce a dozen battleships a year, and someone might thing it's reasonable that it produces 20. It's obvious who would win in a battle there.

Not really...I apply reality(or my own brand of reality) to everyone...so everyone is powered as they should be. Sere and I are working things out as best we can during the lull in hostilities, its a long, sometimes arduous, process, but it is rewarding because it seems we both like roleplay.

[Retech]

I thought the max limit of PP was 10,000, aside from the Sa-Matra. Can we go past that now?

[archimage_a]

To be honest I don't know right now. I think that if I get things sorted with Sere then I will try to do the same with everyone.

[Nero]

A production station costs 5000 to build, and it puts out 200 per year.

 

A battleship (really small) costs 10pp

Heavy costs 100 pp

Super 1000pp

Ultra 2000pp

 

For reference, my "Invasion" fleet, the one in the local area has a total value of 314,250 PP. My main fleet in Tefarn is still kept somewhat under wraps.

:o so with my multi purpose ships (battle ships) I can produce 20 from a station and wait 3 years (specified time from archi for some balance of transformation) and then have 20 production stations. Seems a bit overpowered but I am not going to complain...

Which is why I've been churning out thousands of battleships a year.

Well...to be honest Dusty isn't that big a threat to most people. Sure he has the biggest land army but his space fleet is not amazingly powerful (In fact Doom and Sere probably have the two largests space fleets and they are not all that.)...If people just built a strong defensive system they could probably resist Dusty, and anyone else, indefinately....with the game as it currently is set up.

*shrug*

I think it's mainly that I have the largest manpower pool, the most war-time production capabilities, and the most fanatical citizens. If it came down to it 1v1 I'd win against anyone, since it would just be a giant war of attrition.

 

 

Btw happy new decade everyone. Hope everyone had a great night :D

[The Dark Lord]

Happy New Year's!

[Retech]

Dusty, I think he's talking about the way people build defences. It's not really regulated, so people have those Kent-like space stations everyone. :rolleyes:

 

------

 

I think my citizens are pretty fanatical too. At least, as fanatical as they could be in a monarchy. :)

 

------

 

Also, I think I'll be building a super-mega death star thing (without the massive death beam and tractor thing of course) in Tycus. It probaly won't come online until the end of January and it probaly won't be very strong until somewhere in mid-February.

[archimage_a]

Happy new year everyone

[Retech]

Happy New Year Archi! My wish is that someone new joins Hegemony today. :thumbsup:

[archimage_a]

Well a new NPC race has just entered local space so....

[Seraphi]

I've been using the system to build all my ships and defenses for a while now. Except I did my own modifications to the system in that defensive structures cost their only 75% of their war value, otherwise there is absolutely no point in building them since you might as well build a ton of normal ships, because they can move as well.

 

I was going by the stations costing 4000 to produce 250 per turn, so yeah.

 

Matrioshka brain completed soon. Durendal as well. Durendal is using a new technology (Combat Dynamos) which I obtained from a secret source (Confirmation by Archi can be obtained if needed) which increases the efficiency of the drones.

[Retech]

There's another NPC race? Is it something other than the Urk-Orz? Anyways, I've been building defences as part of projects.

[archimage_a]

No, the new race is rather friendly...though they do have 'potentially ominous' long term plans

I will reveal more later.

 

 

Anyway Sere found a new system 13 light years out from Sega Res, the system is in the process of being colonised.

[Retech]

Is that who I encountered with my probe? I want to say Hi. :thumbsup: