Alright. I'm fairly certain most of you have seen SOMETHING regarding these guys. For those of you that don't, I'll explain. These groups (there's a very large number of them) have one primary focus; the procurement of money and/or power, any way they can get it. The most common and well-known way they go about doing this is through illegal drug trafficking. This means anything and everything from weed to crack. Recently, they've started "diversifying", in the form of ransom kidnappings, extortions, murder-for-hire, and all sorts of crazy. To make this even better, they've been picking up speed. Already, they are all the Mexican government can handle, plus change, and they're getting stronger. It wouldn't be unreasonable to expect them to start full-scale civil war with the Mexican government inside of 1-2 decades, if they even have to do it at all. If it gets that bad, we're essentially going to have feudal-era style governing in Mexico, with some of the most blood-thirsty people on this planet running the show. And this will be right on our south border.

 

 

 

Anyway, now with explanations done, what can you come up with that might help alleviate the problem? I'll hold back on my ideas until at least a few people start showing theirs. Also, if you have any related links to this, I'm perfectly fine with you posting them here.

I also recently started reading up on the mexican drug cartels. Those cartels often have gigantic debts to even more powerful gangsters from other countries like Russia, Colombia and China. They operate under death threats to their families due to not producing enough profits. It's a horrible situation, it's more than one man or a family can bear, I'd move out of Mexico altogether unless living in a very rural distant area largely untouched by drugs.

 

 

 

It's pretty frightening that those mobs have more powerful equipment than even the Mexican army does, guided surface-to-air missiles, helicopters, high caliber sniper rifles etc.

 

 

 

Unless at any point the US army gets involved or demand for illegal drugs drops magically, the problem is never going away. They are extremely powerful and corrupted all areas of Mexican governance. They go to unbelieveable lengths of brutality to achieve their goals every single day.

 

 

 

http://www.eitb24.com/noticia/en/B24_110902

 

 

 

Mexican police say they have found the bodies of 24 men who were bound and shot to death execution-style outside the capital.

 

 

 

This happened just a few weeks ago

 

 

 

Mexican drug cartel murders 12 federal agents

 

An ultra-violent drug cartel has launched a ferocious campaign against the Mexican government, torturing and killing 12 federal agents before piling their bodies by the side of a road.

 

 

 

Their bodies each bearing a single bullet wound to the back of the neck were discovered on Monday on a road in the western state of Michoacán, alongside notes that read "La Familia, join its ranks or leave" and "let's see if you try to arrest another one".

 

 

 

The latter challenge was a reference to the arrest at the weekend of Arnoldo Rueda Medina, who allegedly led the gang's murder squads.

 

 

 

His seizure prompted frenzied reprisals in a wave of grenade attacks in which eight other federal police and troops were killed.

Send in Bauer.

 

seriously

Legalize marijuana.

Considering their status vs. that of us forum users... finding a way to deal with these guys is gonna be hard.

1.) Legalize all drugs; this includes marijuana, cocaine, heroine, LSD, etc.

 

 

 

2.) Legalize prostitution.

 

 

 

This isn't going to solve the problem, but it will help alleviate it. It probably would have been a solution a few years back, but now they're involved with more than just drugs and slaves.

http://www.drugsense.org/wodclock.htm

 

 

 

The U.S. federal government spent over $19 billion dollars in 2003 on the War on Drugs, at a rate of about $600 per second. The budget has since been increased by over a billion dollars.

 

 

 

Source: Office of National Drug Control Policy

 

 

 

State and local governments spent at least another 30 billion.

 

 

 

Source: National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse at Columbia University: "Shoveling Up: The Impact of Substance Abuse on State Budgets," January, 2001.

 

 

 

Source: Jeffrey A. Miron, Department of Economics, Harvard University: "The Budgetary Implications of Drug Prohibition," December 2008.

 

 

 

People Arrested for Cannabis Law Offenses this Year

 

Police arrested an estimated 872,720 persons for cannabis violations in 2007, the highest annual total ever recorded in the United States, according to statistics compiled by the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Of those charged with cannabis violations, approximately 89 percent, 775,137 Americans were charged with possession only. An American is now arrested for violating cannabis laws every 38 seconds.

 

 

 

Source: Uniform Crime Reports, Federal Bureau of Investigation

Send in Bauer.

 

seriously

 

Agreed.

 

 

 

Honestly, the situation sucks but it's not our country, we should leave them alone.

1.) Legalize all drugs; this includes marijuana, cocaine, heroine, LSD, etc.

 

 

 

I'm all for legalizing weed, but really? Coke, heroin, and LSD and some pretty serious drugs. They ruin lives and you can OD pretty easily.

 

 

 

This thread reminds me of season 4 of the show called Weeds :thumbup:

Alright. Now that I know there's an interest in the topic, I'll get on with my idea.

 

 

 

First off, legalize the non-harmful drugs like marijuana. Seriously. Forget the whole debate about how medically beneficial it is. Weed is a HUGE chunk of these guys' paycheck. If we cut that out of their wallets (no more artificially high prices, it's a f@#$ing weed so it isn't going to be hard to grow a ton cheaply), they're going to be hurting. This is almost as important as cutting their weapon shipments. Doesn't matter much what's on the market if these [puncture]s can't pay for it.

 

 

 

Second, get the illegal alien problem sorted out, one way or another. The best way I see of fixing this is making it easier for "good" people to come here through the proper channels, so they don't have to worry about the Hell that is human trafficking. I wager that most of the people who have to use the illegal method to get in are also forced to carry drugs across the border for their benefactors. Finding some way to prevent them from doing so should be paramount, as is making sure the border patrol are actually allowed to do their job. I'm sure everyone remembers that little bit of "fun" last year with the two agents getting jailed for shooting the drug trafficker.

 

 

 

Third, and this should be the most difficult part, get our military into this. In order to do this proper, we need a few things; the OK from the Mexican government, us OUT of the Middle-East in large numbers, and a properly supported armed forces. If we try and do this while we're still mucking about in Afghanistan or wherever, we'll just be either spanked or have to do what we were doing in Iraq for the longest time; sit and watch the area for years on end. That does NOT sound like fun. Also, we need to ditch the idea of hiring PMCs. It's too costly, we have very meager control over their actions, and the quality of their work is rarely guaranteed. That money should go into improving our OWN military, not some circus-masque merc company like Blackwater (no clue what they call themselves now).

 

 

 

If Obama does things how I expect, we should be ready for the third item on that list in about 3-4 years. It'll be damn near impossible to do any of it with the Congress as close as it is, though. Hopefully, people grow a few braincells in that time.

1.) Legalize all drugs; this includes marijuana, cocaine, heroine, LSD, etc.

 

 

 

I'm all for legalizing weed, but really? Coke, heroin, and LSD and some pretty serious drugs. They ruin lives and you can OD pretty easily.

 

 

 

This thread reminds me of season 4 of the show called Weeds :thumbup:

 

Weed is legal in holland and the only problem is ppls coming from other countries to smoke weed here (luls) so i dont see the problem of legalizing Weed.

1) Legalise marijuana (would cut down on a lot of drug trafficking since it's a commonly sold drug)

 

2) Tighter immigration laws/militarise the borders

 

 

 

I've seen these sick [bleep] videos before. They tape the executions of rival cartel members. The best way to combat them is to burn down all of their buildings and execute them on sight.

Weed is legal in holland and the only problem is ppls coming from other countries to smoke weed here (luls) so i dont see the problem of legalizing Weed.

 

 

 

Let me rephrase that.

 

 

 

I'm all for legalizing weed. But Coke, heroin, and LSD really? They are some pretty serious drugs. They ruin lives and you can OD pretty easily.

1.) Legalize all drugs; this includes marijuana, cocaine, heroine, LSD, etc.

 

 

 

I'm all for legalizing weed, but really? Coke, heroin, and LSD and some pretty serious drugs. They ruin lives and you can OD pretty easily.

 

 

 

This thread reminds me of season 4 of the show called Weeds :thumbup:

 

 

 

Yeah, they can, and they do whilst they're illegal. Should we ban medical drugs because people abuse and OD on them (and they do). Portugal decriminalized all drugs, put their resources into treatment and the result was less drug use across the board in every demographic with every drug.

 

 

 

There will be abuse regardless if they're illegal or not. I would rather have the state, rather than the public underground black market, license sellers to control where, when and to whom drugs are sold.

Can you imagine what the city centre would look like with teenagers not only drunk but high on cocaine as well? re: the problem; well there's two ways of doing this.

 

 

 

1. Send in foreign troops

 

2. Help Mexico sort the problem out by themselves via financial and training means.

 

 

 

I'm for option 2;the UN has a peace keeping force which can be used to train Mexican military into dealing with these drug dealers in a more efficient way whilst providing high tech equipment from MEDC's.

Can you imagine what the city centre would look like with teenagers not only drunk but high on cocaine as well? re: the problem; well there's two ways of doing this.

 

 

No. I'm pretty sure not only teenagers drink and use coke, also what makes you think everyone would do it anyway.

Nothing we can do, really. They keep out of America for the most part, and I doubt Obama would be into giving any real aid to Mexico. Us border states have to deal with it as best we can.

 

 

 

1.) Legalize all drugs; this includes marijuana, cocaine, heroine, LSD, etc.

 

You honestly think that would stop the cartels? This would just lead to a fight between American corporations and drug cartels over who controls and distributes. Just saying do whatever the [bleep] you want won't help, because people will then do whatever the [bleep] they want. By the way, as to Portugal: Portugal is the size of Pennsylvania, with a population even less than that same state's, comprised mainly of full-blooded Portuguese people with a small amount of legal immigrants. It would be much easier to just legalize all drugs and treat addiction if it was even mildly feasible in a country our size. C'mon.

 

 

 

The problem I'm noticing is: everyone here is coming up with ideas, but they're very bad ones. Everyone in Washington and the UN isn't coming up with ideas, but if they are, they're very bad ones.

 

 

 

The drugs and all that [cabbage] are screwing Mexico over. It isn't like a [bleep]ing clog in the toilet - if you do something stupid like legalize all drugs or invade Mexico, it isn't going to be all peaceful and happy. This will take years and years to sort out, if it ever is. With corruption being forced into every level of government, Mexico is slowly turning into a government that is, essentially, owned by a corporation - the drug gangs. While there are tons of those gangs, all at war with each other and the government at the same time, all of them want the government to be more susceptible to their demands. And it is happening rapidly.

 

 

 

Pretty much screwed any way you look at it. It takes a different frame of mind to solve a problem like this. You don't heavy-handedly invade Mexico and force everything down, and you can't just act like a little girl and legalize everything hoping the problem will go away. You need to think outside the box. And governments are notorious for their inability in doing such a thing.

It's a pretty grim situation indeed. I figure it'd help if gun sale was more strictly sanctioned and controlled -especially in the US, since many of their arms are smuggled from there.

Build a bigger fence, put a bunch of Marines around it. Shoot anyone on sight that is hopping the electrical fence, if possible ;)

 

1.) Legalize all drugs; this includes marijuana, cocaine, heroine, LSD, etc.

 

You honestly think that would stop the cartels?

 

 

 

No, I think it would cripple an area of where a lot of their profits come from. As I said, it wouldn't be a solution, but it would put a huge dent in what they do.

 

 

 

This would just lead to a fight between American corporations and drug cartels over who controls and distributes.

 

 

 

Not if you tax the drugs low enough. Cartels are involved in a lot of trafficking of goods, tobacco and alcohol aren't one of them.

 

 

 

Just saying do whatever the [bleep] you want won't help, because people will then do whatever the [bleep] they want.

 

 

 

Huh?

 

 

 

By the way, as to Portugal: Portugal is the size of Pennsylvania, with a population even less than that same state's, comprised mainly of full-blooded Portuguese people with a small amount of legal immigrants. It would be much easier to just legalize all drugs and treat addiction if it was even mildly feasible in a country our size. C'mon.

 

 

 

Why do people always invoke the size of our country, when they forget that we're governed by a bunch of states who can manage national policy?

 

 

 

The drugs and all that [cabbage] are screwing Mexico over. It isn't like a [bleep] clog in the toilet - if you do something stupid like legalize all drugs or invade Mexico, it isn't going to be all peaceful and happy.

 

 

 

How will legalizing all drugs do this? I'm not saying it's going to turn Mexico into France, or that it's going to end cartel control. I am saying it will hobble some of their efforts in a similar fashion that removing our agriculture subsidies will hobble terrorism in Afghanistan.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You don't heavy-handedly invade Mexico and force everything down, and you can't just act like a little girl and legalize everything hoping the problem will go away. You need to think outside the box. And governments are notorious for their inability in doing such a thing.

 

 

 

That was quite the sexist remark to make. The sexism aside, I'm not hoping the problem will go away. I'm speaking in terms that many serious policy people talk about. Hell, there was an article in the Washington Post just today about it:

 

 

 

Undercover Baltimore police officer Dante Arthur was doing what he does well, arresting drug dealers, when he approached a group in January. What he didn't know was that one of suspects knew from a previous arrest that Arthur was police. Arthur was shot twice in the face. In the gunfight that ensued, Arthur's partner returned fire and shot one of the suspects, three of whom were later arrested.

 

 

 

In many ways, Dante Arthur was lucky. He lived. Nationwide, a police officer dies on duty nearly every other day. Too often a flag-draped casket is followed by miles of flashing red and blue lights. Even more officers are shot and wounded, too many fighting the war on drugs. The prohibition on drugs leads to unregulated, and often violent, public drug dealing. Perhaps counterintuitively, better police training and bigger guns are not the answer.

 

 

 

When it makes sense to deal drugs in public, a neighborhood becomes home to drug violence. For a low-level drug dealer, working the street means more money and fewer economic risks. If police come, and they will, some young kid will be left holding the bag while the dealer walks around the block. But if the dealer sells inside, one raid, by either police or robbers, can put him out of business for good. Only those virtually immune from arrests (much less imprisonment) -- college students, the wealthy and those who never buy or sell from strangers -- can deal indoors.

 

 

 

Six years ago one of us wrote a column on this page, "Victims of the War on Drugs." It discussed violence, poor community relations, overly aggressive policing and riots. It failed to mention one important harm: the drug war's clear and present danger toward men and women in blue.

 

 

 

Drug users generally aren't violent. Most simply want to be left alone to enjoy their high. It's the corner slinger who terrifies neighbors and invites rivals to attack. Public drug dealing creates an environment where disputes about money or respect are settled with guns.

 

 

 

In high-crime areas, police spend much of their time answering drug-related calls for service, clearing dealers off corners, responding to shootings and homicides, and making lots of drug-related arrests.

 

 

 

One of us (Franklin) was the commanding officer at the police academy when Arthur (as well as Moskos) graduated. We all learned similar lessons. Police officers are taught about the evils of the drug trade and given the knowledge and tools to inflict as much damage as possible upon the people who constitute the drug community. Policymakers tell us to fight this unwinnable war.

 

 

 

Only after years of witnessing the ineffectiveness of drug policies -- and the disproportionate impact the drug war has on young black men -- have we and other police officers begun to question the system.

 

 

 

Cities and states license beer and tobacco sellers to control where, when and to whom drugs are sold. Ending Prohibition saved lives because it took gangsters out of the game. Regulated alcohol doesn't work perfectly, but it works well enough. Prescription drugs are regulated, and while there is a huge problem with abuse, at least a system of distribution involving doctors and pharmacists works without violence and high-volume incarceration. Regulating drugs would work similarly: not a cure-all, but a vast improvement on the status quo.

 

 

 

Legalization would not create a drug free-for-all. In fact, regulation reins in the mess we already have. If prohibition decreased drug use and drug arrests acted as a deterrent, America would not lead the world in illegal drug use and incarceration for drug crimes.

 

 

 

Drug manufacturing and distribution is too dangerous to remain in the hands of unregulated criminals. Drug distribution needs to be the combined responsibility of doctors, the government, and a legal and regulated free market. This simple step would quickly eliminate the greatest threat of violence: street-corner drug dealing.

 

 

 

We simply urge the federal government to retreat. Let cities and states (and, while we're at it, other countries) decide their own drug policies. Many would continue prohibition, but some would try something new. California and its medical marijuana dispensaries provide a good working example, warts and all, that legalized drug distribution does not cause the sky to fall.

 

 

 

Having fought the war on drugs, we know that ending the drug war is the right thing to do -- for all of us, especially taxpayers. While the financial benefits of drug legalization are not our main concern, they are substantial. In a July referendum, Oakland, Calif., voted to tax drug sales by a 4-to-1 margin. Harvard economist Jeffrey Miron estimates that ending the drug war would save $44 billion annually, with taxes bringing in an additional $33 billion.

 

 

 

Without the drug war, America's most decimated neighborhoods would have a chance to recover. Working people could sit on stoops, misguided youths wouldn't look up to criminals as role models, our overflowing prisons could hold real criminals, and -- most important to us -- more police officers wouldn't have to die.

 

 

 

Peter Moskos is a professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice and the author of "Cop in the Hood." Neill Franklin is a 32-year law enforcement veteran. Both served as Baltimore City police officers and are members of Law Enforcement Against Prohibition.

 

 

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 58_pf.html

 

 

 

Not only this, but Latin American leaders are all now pressing for legalization. Brazil, Mexico, and Columbia; a lot of their leaders are pressing for it now that they're out of office and not subject to people who will call them immoral for pushing drugs on the populace.

 

 

 

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?art ... ation_push

Nothing we can do, really. They keep out of America for the most part, and I doubt Obama would be into giving any real aid to Mexico. Us border states have to deal with it as best we can.

 

 

 

1.) Legalize all drugs; this includes marijuana, cocaine, heroine, LSD, etc.

 

You honestly think that would stop the cartels? This would just lead to a fight between American corporations and drug cartels over who controls and distributes. Just saying do whatever the [bleep] you want won't help, because people will then do whatever the [bleep] they want. By the way, as to Portugal: Portugal is the size of Pennsylvania, with a population even less than that same state's, comprised mainly of full-blooded Portuguese people with a small amount of legal immigrants. It would be much easier to just legalize all drugs and treat addiction if it was even mildly feasible in a country our size. C'mon.

 

 

 

The problem I'm noticing is: everyone here is coming up with ideas, but they're very bad ones. Everyone in Washington and the UN isn't coming up with ideas, but if they are, they're very bad ones.

 

 

 

The drugs and all that [cabbage] are screwing Mexico over. It isn't like a [bleep] clog in the toilet - if you do something stupid like legalize all drugs or invade Mexico, it isn't going to be all peaceful and happy. This will take years and years to sort out, if it ever is. With corruption being forced into every level of government, Mexico is slowly turning into a government that is, essentially, owned by a corporation - the drug gangs. While there are tons of those gangs, all at war with each other and the government at the same time, all of them want the government to be more susceptible to their demands. And it is happening rapidly.

 

 

 

Pretty much screwed any way you look at it. It takes a different frame of mind to solve a problem like this. You don't heavy-handedly invade Mexico and force everything down, and you can't just act like a little girl and legalize everything hoping the problem will go away. You need to think outside the box. And governments are notorious for their inability in doing such a thing.

 

 

 

 

 

If you think all our ideas suck so damn much, then why don't you give a few of your own? If you can't come up with anything, then sit down and let the people actually TRYING to come up with something workable think.

No, I think it would cripple an area of where a lot of their profits come from. As I said, it wouldn't be a solution, but it would put a huge dent in what they do.

 

I just don't believe it would put a dent in operations at all. Even if it did, many of those cartels have incredible influence in Mexico. They're the ones we should worry about, and they're the ones that could handle something like that

 

 

 

Not if you tax the drugs low enough. Cartels are involved in a lot of trafficking of goods, tobacco and alcohol aren't one of them.

 

You're saying our government won't tax the living hell out of drugs they've fought hard against for over a century? Or hand the production and sales rights over to their buddies at the big tobacco companies? C'mon, man. I thought you were more cynical than that.

 

 

 

Huh?

 

Wasn't really directing that in a debating way.

 

 

 

Why do people always invoke the size of our country, when they forget that we're governed by a bunch of states who can manage national policy?

 

Because our states can't. For example, California, one of the largest and the most populous state, is in debt over 20 billion dollars. It would take federal power to do something like that, but, surprise surprise, our federal government doesn't have that sort of power.

 

 

 

How will legalizing all drugs do this? I'm not saying it's going to turn Mexico into France, or that it's going to end cartel control. I am saying it will hobble some of their efforts in a similar fashion that removing our agriculture subsidies will hobble terrorism in Afghanistan.

 

You have a point, but I don't think lessening their control on drugs (lessening, they would still have quite a bit of power) would hobble them as much as doing something with agriculture subsidies would with Afghanistan.

 

 

 

That was quite the sexist remark to make. The sexism aside, I'm not hoping the problem will go away. I'm speaking in terms that many serious policy people talk about. Hell, there was an article in the Washington Post just today about it:

 

I really don't care if it's sexist, because I'm pretty much positive there were no little girls crying over it. And if someone was offended, they should find something more important to worry about than whether or not someone on an internet forum is being sexist. This could be like 18th-century Congress. I have a cane, and I'm ready to fight about it.

 

 

 

I honestly think nobody is competent enough to find some single clever solution to all this. Of course a ridiculous prohibition on drug use isn't great, but it would take a good 40 years, beginning today, to work education over drugs into schools and all that. There isn't even good education over alcohol and tobacco. It's always, "It's bad!" while kids can look at the TV and see people drinking just fine. What needs to be educated over is how a drink or two can be enjoyable, not just a means to an end (of getting thoroughly trashed).

 

 

 

Anyways, I've started rambling into alcohol now. I'm tired of debating, and swore I'd stop a long time ago. Adios. Sorry, was that racist?

 

 

 

If you think all our ideas suck so damn much, then why don't you give a few of your own? If you can't come up with anything, then sit down and let the people actually TRYING to come up with something workable think.

 

I see you take me too seriously. I apologize for being cynical, but I figured it was useful for slowing down all the "Build a huge fence!!!" comments. By the way, I am sitting. In front of a computer. As are you. I guess I forget the State Department is waiting for us to come up with something good, and then take it.

 

 

 

Ah tough love. I bet you'll become President now, just to make me look like an [wagon]. You'd better thank me in your speech. I'll be watching. Inauguration 2032, I believe? See you there.

Legalizing everything would be a rather poor idea; legalizing pot would be useful in cutting into a major part of the cartels money without causing societal problems in America. Honestly, while marijuana is rather fine; stuff like coke is far too harmful to allow into casual use.

 

 

 

Also, when are we going to build that damn fence? I realize its nothing near a cure all, but a fence is suring going to work a lot better then a not fence.

I'll respond to the rest of your post later, but the reason California is in the mess it's in is because of direct democracy. The people constantly vote for programs, and then they won't vote for ways to pay for them. Moreover, their budget must pass with a 2/3 majority. How silly...

1.) Legalize all drugs; this includes marijuana, cocaine, heroine, LSD, etc.

 

 

 

2.) Legalize prostitution.

 

 

 

This isn't going to solve the problem, but it will help alleviate it. It probably would have been a solution a few years back, but now they're involved with more than just drugs and slaves.

Are you being serious, or are you just messing around :shock: