Obama's First Year

[fastortoise]

Stop being a douche? Stop being a douche? You, a child doesn't rely on personal income and has no idea about severe taxes, are telling people who already pay 55% of their income to the government to stop being douches and cough up even more money? Alright, fine. Have it your way.

You guys pay 55% of your salary to taxes? Let's not exaggerate here... cause us canadalanders pay around that amount (well, not students like me) and we all have health care.

[indy500fan]

There are multiple tax brackets, and tons of things that you can count as deductables. No person in the US pays 55% tax.

[1230abcz]

Obama's first year? Crap. I mean, think about it. All he really did was give gay people some rights, pass national health care, bring the U.S. out of near depression, and partially fix the almost dead economy. Now let's be reasonable here, George W. Bush did almost half of those things, right?

 

 

Edit: Even Glenn Beck said this dude was just like Hitler. Seriously, now that's all the evidence you could possibly need.

[Rebdragon]

There are multiple tax brackets, and tons of things that you can count as deductables. No person in the US pays 55% tax.

I'm referring to the net of all taxes for top earners, not just federal income taxes. Sorry if my reference to federal taxes muddled that point up.

 

And yes, many do pay that much. 35% to the government and 20+% to local/state/property/etc. There's an entire tax bracket of people that pay that much.

[Nadril]

The thing is the government is already having to pay a lot because of hospitals can't afford helping out all the people without insurance. Not saying that there would or wouldn't be an increase of taxes but just saying, they are paying either way.

[i_love_burritos]

Not to mention that the US has a completely [bleep]ED UP balance of payments. And CAD.

 

So, guys, dont spend on imported products.

 

Yeah.

 

Infact, this deficit is theorized to be the main reason behind economic instability.

[Saru Inc]

Yea but you gotta pay a fine.

Sources?

 

I honestly don't see a problem with Universal Healthcare. Oh, but you're happy with your current healthcare? Stop being a douche. If the 85% that are happy don't want to take a little time to help the 15% that aren't happy, then those 85% have no idea what it means to be an American citizen.

 

What's wrong with a public option? Yes, it'll cost money, but for God's sake, we're already spending a [cabbage] ton of that on every little thing. A public option is really the only way to keep people (like me) from being constantly cluster[bleep]ed by big insurance companies.

 

 

http://republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=153583

 

 

Inside the article:

 

Prosecution is authorized under the Code for a variety of offenses. Depending on the level of the noncompliance, the following penalties could apply to an individual:

 

Section 7203 misdemeanor willful failure to pay is punishable by a fine of up to $25,000 and/or imprisonment of up to one year.

 

Section 7201 felony willful evasion is punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment of up to five years. [page 3]

 

When confronted with this same issue during its consideration of a similar individual mandate tax, the Senate Finance Committee worked on a bipartisan basis to include language in its bill that shielded Americans from civil and criminal penalties. The Pelosi bill, however, contains no similar language protecting American citizens from civil and criminal tax penalties that could include a $250,000 fine and five years in jail.

 

Call the source a circus, a joke, propaganda, whatever. But the sections are unbiased (if you could say that). They're pure fact.

 

And incase that link is "not true"

 

Here's another:

 

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/healthcare/66879-pelosi-bill-jail-for-no-insurance

 

Yes this is a blog but still..

 

 

Now here's some info about me:

 

This year I've received 10,233.95 from my job. Taxes (medicare;fed. income tax; va income tax; and SS) took away$1405.34 already. With this new healthcare program I'll have even more taken out, which is stupid.

 

And to your run of the line "have the better off help the worse off" let me give you some advice. If someone is ignorant enough to not have Health Insurance, then let them wallow in their ignorance, and suffer from it. And if they genuinely cannot afford health care, because of a poor paying job and such, despite working hard. I believe there is welfare for that.

 

And even if all that is bull; the government has no right to force me to buy healthcare. And that is the end all to the discussion. And no offence to any Europeans, but America seperated from Western Europe for a reason. We've excel'd past Europe for a reason, so I do not understand why all the sudden America want's to be in Western Europe's good graces. My mom had a good friend in Canada who died of a medical condition that in America, could have easily been solved. But in Canada, the waiting line was so long, she died waiting.

 

 

And I'm not sure how many people here drive, but if you do (in America) surely you dread going to your local Department of Transportation. Ours takes hours to do anything; imagine that at hospitals, doctor's offices. You think the lines are bad...

[Skeptical]

I sometimes think that it's hard to have an opinion about him: Bush was such a horrible president that it would be hard to do worse: I think that the Nobel Comittee was thinking along that line - "well, he hasn't invaded anyone or lied to the public about terrorism... aw, hell, give it to Obama."

[Saru Inc]

Yea but you gotta pay a fine.

Sources?

 

I honestly don't see a problem with Universal Healthcare. Oh, but you're happy with your current healthcare? Stop being a douche. If the 85% that are happy don't want to take a little time to help the 15% that aren't happy, then those 85% have no idea what it means to be an American citizen.

 

What's wrong with a public option? Yes, it'll cost money, but for God's sake, we're already spending a [cabbage] ton of that on every little thing. A public option is really the only way to keep people (like me) from being constantly cluster[bleep]ed by big insurance companies.

 

 

http://republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=153583

 

 

Inside the article:

 

Prosecution is authorized under the Code for a variety of offenses. Depending on the level of the noncompliance, the following penalties could apply to an individual:

 

Section 7203 misdemeanor willful failure to pay is punishable by a fine of up to $25,000 and/or imprisonment of up to one year.

 

Section 7201 felony willful evasion is punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment of up to five years. [page 3]

 

When confronted with this same issue during its consideration of a similar individual mandate tax, the Senate Finance Committee worked on a bipartisan basis to include language in its bill that shielded Americans from civil and criminal penalties. The Pelosi bill, however, contains no similar language protecting American citizens from civil and criminal tax penalties that could include a $250,000 fine and five years in jail.

 

Call the source a circus, a joke, propaganda, whatever. But the sections are unbiased (if you could say that). They're pure fact.

 

And incase that link is "not true"

 

Here's another:

 

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/healthcare/66879-pelosi-bill-jail-for-no-insurance

 

Yes this is a blog but still..

 

 

Now here's some info about me:

 

This year I've received 10,233.95 from my job. Taxes (medicare;fed. income tax; va income tax; and SS) took away$1405.34 already. With this new healthcare program I'll have even more taken out, which is stupid.

 

And to your run of the line "have the better off help the worse off" let me give you some advice. If someone is ignorant enough to not have Health Insurance, then let them wallow in their ignorance, and suffer from it. And if they genuinely cannot afford health care, because of a poor paying job and such, despite working hard. I believe there is welfare for that.

 

And even if all that is bull; the government has no right to force me to buy healthcare. And that is the end all to the discussion. And no offence to any Europeans, but America seperated from Western Europe for a reason. We've excel'd past Europe for a reason, so I do not understand why all the sudden America want's to be in Western Europe's good graces. My mom had a good friend in Canada who died of a medical condition that in America, could have easily been solved. But in Canada, the waiting line was so long, she died waiting.

 

 

And I'm not sure how many people here drive, but if you do (in America) surely you dread going to your local Department of Transportation. Ours takes hours to do anything; imagine that at hospitals, doctor's offices. You think the lines are bad...

I'll tell you what the bottom line is, if you're too stubborn, arrogant, whatever too help out your fellow man, then you don't deserve to be in a free country.

 

I like how you didn't even mention the links.

 

 

And you know what? I did 250 hours of community service non court ordered last year recycling. I do many things to help my community, and I'm sure you do too. But there is a HUGE difference from being poor, because you're lazy, and poor because you're a victim of circumstance. I am more than willing to help those with hard luck, but I'm am not willing to help mr Joe Blow down the block who spends all his money on beer and cigs, then gets sick and doesn't have enough money.

 

 

And arrogant? Stubborn? whatever?

 

Ok. Well, you do not know me, nor will you ever. Likewise, I do not know you. So how about we drop the baseless superficial accusations of one's character based on their political standings. I simply do not stand for Universal healthcare, however, I would not mind it as much, if it wasn't mandatory or face a fine (see link above) thats really my only big problem with it. If I want to go to a family practice like the one I've been going to for years, and the gov't tells me instead I gotta go to Mr. Dr. who doesn't know me, and I'm just a number on the list... Why should I?

[Saru Inc]

Yea but you gotta pay a fine.

Sources?

 

I honestly don't see a problem with Universal Healthcare. Oh, but you're happy with your current healthcare? Stop being a douche. If the 85% that are happy don't want to take a little time to help the 15% that aren't happy, then those 85% have no idea what it means to be an American citizen.

 

What's wrong with a public option? Yes, it'll cost money, but for God's sake, we're already spending a [cabbage] ton of that on every little thing. A public option is really the only way to keep people (like me) from being constantly cluster[bleep]ed by big insurance companies.

 

 

http://republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=153583

 

 

Inside the article:

 

Prosecution is authorized under the Code for a variety of offenses. Depending on the level of the noncompliance, the following penalties could apply to an individual:

 

Section 7203 misdemeanor willful failure to pay is punishable by a fine of up to $25,000 and/or imprisonment of up to one year.

 

Section 7201 felony willful evasion is punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment of up to five years. [page 3]

 

When confronted with this same issue during its consideration of a similar individual mandate tax, the Senate Finance Committee worked on a bipartisan basis to include language in its bill that shielded Americans from civil and criminal penalties. The Pelosi bill, however, contains no similar language protecting American citizens from civil and criminal tax penalties that could include a $250,000 fine and five years in jail.

 

Call the source a circus, a joke, propaganda, whatever. But the sections are unbiased (if you could say that). They're pure fact.

 

And incase that link is "not true"

 

Here's another:

 

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/healthcare/66879-pelosi-bill-jail-for-no-insurance

 

Yes this is a blog but still..

 

 

Now here's some info about me:

 

This year I've received 10,233.95 from my job. Taxes (medicare;fed. income tax; va income tax; and SS) took away$1405.34 already. With this new healthcare program I'll have even more taken out, which is stupid.

 

And to your run of the line "have the better off help the worse off" let me give you some advice. If someone is ignorant enough to not have Health Insurance, then let them wallow in their ignorance, and suffer from it. And if they genuinely cannot afford health care, because of a poor paying job and such, despite working hard. I believe there is welfare for that.

 

And even if all that is bull; the government has no right to force me to buy healthcare. And that is the end all to the discussion. And no offence to any Europeans, but America seperated from Western Europe for a reason. We've excel'd past Europe for a reason, so I do not understand why all the sudden America want's to be in Western Europe's good graces. My mom had a good friend in Canada who died of a medical condition that in America, could have easily been solved. But in Canada, the waiting line was so long, she died waiting.

 

 

And I'm not sure how many people here drive, but if you do (in America) surely you dread going to your local Department of Transportation. Ours takes hours to do anything; imagine that at hospitals, doctor's offices. You think the lines are bad...

I'll tell you what the bottom line is, if you're too stubborn, arrogant, whatever too help out your fellow man, then you don't deserve to be in a free country.

 

I like how you didn't even mention the links.

 

 

And you know what? I did 250 hours of community service non court ordered last year recycling. I do many things to help my community, and I'm sure you do too. But there is a HUGE difference from being poor, because you're lazy, and poor because you're a victim of circumstance. I am more than willing to help those with hard luck, but I'm am not willing to help mr Joe Blow down the block who spends all his money on beer and cigs, then gets sick and doesn't have enough money.

 

 

And arrogant? Stubborn? whatever?

 

Ok. Well, you do not know me, nor will you ever. Likewise, I do not know you. So how about we drop the baseless superficial accusations of one's character based on their political standings. I simply do not stand for Universal healthcare, however, I would not mind it as much, if it wasn't mandatory or face a fine (see link above) thats really my only big problem with it. If I want to go to a family practice like the one I've been going to for years, and the gov't tells me instead I gotta go to Mr. Dr. who doesn't know me, and I'm just a number on the list... Why should I?

You act like people who "threw away their money" are the majority, and that's certainly not true. Your defense for not wanting to pay to help give the uninsured health care is that some of them might be uninsured because they're lazy?

 

(And you'll notice that I undelrined the "republicans" in the first link :smile: )

 

 

Or because they simply do not care. And you're right, I don't want to help pay for people who don't deserve it.

 

 

Now I ask you..

 

What have you done to help the impoverished?

 

 

Notice I underlined the section numbers that are true for both parties. :smile:

[Saru Inc]

Until you can find a list of these people who blow their money on stuff and then don't care when they are in debt and can't afford health care, my point still stands: the vast majority of people who don't have health insurance are poor and should be helped by the more fortunate. It's a fundamental idea of 21st century society.

 

And actually last year I began organizing monthly food drives for the local food pantry.

 

 

There is no fundamental idea of a 21st century that is relatively new. That may be your idea, it's not mine. I understand how the Robin Hood scenario is ideal, and that for the majority, left ists (not necessarily you) are idealists. It's not practical.

 

And I would easily make a list, but I have no proof that the people I list even exist. So there's no point. And you're talkng about hundreds of thousands.

[Giordano]

Couldn't they reduce their military funding and replace it with the Medicare funding instead of making new taxes?

Either stupidity or stubbornness at it's finest.

--

Oh and I read that you have to buy medical insurance but that jobs must now offer them.

 

So which one is it?

[Rebdragon]

Until you can find a list of these people who blow their money on stuff and then don't care when they are in debt and can't afford health care, my point still stands: the vast majority of people who don't have health insurance are poor and should be helped by the more fortunate. It's a fundamental idea of 21st century society.

 

And actually last year I began organizing monthly food drives for the local food pantry.

Blatantly false. Of the previously estimated 46 million "people in America that are without insurance", over 17 million make over $50,000 a year, an estimated 3 million are young risk takers, and 12-15 million are eligible for Medicaid. Take into account illegal immigrants in the statistic and the number falls down to something like 10 million, often less by some estimates. Were essentially spending 1 trillion dollars to make people who dont want insurance get it and shift a bit of the wealth to a couple million that people that aren't even allowed to be denied at a hospital if they're in need anyways. This. Is. Ducked. Up.

 

Not to be a jerk but I think you're five years too early for political debate rocco. Not that my points are infallible (the above numbers are rough), it's just that you're talking a lot more emotion and personal opinion than actual argument based on world events.

[Saru Inc]

What Reb said. Hah I'm not very good at debates. As already shown.

[meol]

Please tell me if I'm right: Under this law, if someone is able to, but doesn't have any health insurance, gets an additional tax of no more than the average premium for healthcare coverage. Then, if this person evades those taxes, he might be fined with no more than $25,000, as per the current law. Am I right?

[Saru Inc]

Until you can find a list of these people who blow their money on stuff and then don't care when they are in debt and can't afford health care, my point still stands: the vast majority of people who don't have health insurance are poor and should be helped by the more fortunate. It's a fundamental idea of 21st century society.

 

And actually last year I began organizing monthly food drives for the local food pantry.

Blatantly false. Of the previously estimated 46 million "people in America that are without insurance", over 17 million make over $50,000 a year, an estimated 3 million are young risk takers, and 12-15 million are eligible for Medicaid. Take into account illegal immigrants in the statistic and the number falls down to something like 10 million, often less by some estimates. Were essentially spending 1 trillion dollars to make people who dont want insurance get it and shift a bit of the wealth to a couple million that people that aren't even allowed to be denied at a hospital if they're in need anyways. This. Is. Ducked. Up.

 

Not to be a jerk but I think you're five years too early for political debate rocco. Not that my points are infallible (the above numbers are rough), it's just that you're talking a lot more emotion and personal opinion than actual argument based on world events.

You're probably right. I know little to nothing about the topic, but I do have personal experience. Most of the people in my area are cluster[bleep]ed by a big insurance company. My mom's pay check is only 25% of her actual pay when she finally receives it. And there are tons of other people who get screwed over like that too.

 

And it's not a Robin Hood concept. It's civilized society. But I'll leave this topic alone for a while if you want.

 

 

I hate to bring this up but... You're 13 if you're profile is correct. All you know is your town, you're indoctrinated by the public schools, and the environment around you. So it's not hard to believe you genuinely think this is the solution. Well name one country better off than we are, who has socialized healthcare.

[indy500fan]

I hate to bring this up but... You're 13 if you're profile is correct. All you know is your town, you're indoctrinated by the public schools, and the environment around you. So it's not hard to believe you genuinely think this is the solution. Well name one country better off than we are, who has socialized healthcare.

 

There are tons of different measurements of "better off" but most Western European countries' citizens are better off than the corresponding US citizen. Better, cheaper health care (socialized), higher average wages, ect...

 

The Human Development Index is a good overall country comparison, and the US only ranks 13th.

 

EDIT: Ironic you talk about indoctrination and think that the US is the best country in the world. And since we are talking about socialized health care, you should look at who has the best health care systems in the world: WHO - the "capitalist" US health system is beaten out by 36 countries with some sort of socialized care.

[Rebdragon]

Why did you put capitalist in quotation marks...?

 

And a quick note.

 

Innovation.

 

Note where the world is moving. The Atlantic's old news, the Pacific's got all the cool nations.

[indy500fan]

Because I would consider it corporatist rather than capitalist. It makes more money by cutting as much coverage that people have paid for as possible, whereas a capitalist system would be companies competing to provide the best coverage possible for as cheap as possible.

[OldJoe]

I hate to bring this up but... You're 13 if you're profile is correct. All you know is your town, you're indoctrinated by the public schools, and the environment around you. So it's not hard to believe you genuinely think this is the solution. Well name one country better off than we are, who has socialized healthcare.

 

There are tons of different measurements of "better off" but most Western European countries' citizens are better off than the corresponding US citizen. Better, cheaper health care (socialized), higher average wages, ect...

 

The Human Development Index is a good overall country comparison, and the US only ranks 13th.

 

EDIT: Ironic you talk about indoctrination and think that the US is the best country in the world. And since we are talking about socialized health care, you should look at who has the best health care systems in the world: WHO - the "capitalist" US health system is beaten out by 36 countries with some sort of socialized care.

 

 

Hah, speaking of my own country which has the crappy socialized system. The queues for operations are very very long (up to 2 years in some cases). The elder care is cut down (like for instant, people who have brought the country wealth now got half an egg).

The public schools are rubbish, the classes are overcrowded in many cases, the teachers earn too little and quite many of them get "burnt out".

The prices on cars are insane, take for instance a Ford Mustang: In USA around 25$k, in my country: around 40$k.

 

And my country won't be able to sustain the bloody wealthcare-system in the future if they keep on going with the immigration as it is now.

 

This was slightly OT but i just felt that i had to point out that socialized systems aren't brilliant.

[Saru Inc]

I hate to bring this up but... You're 13 if you're profile is correct. All you know is your town, you're indoctrinated by the public schools, and the environment around you. So it's not hard to believe you genuinely think this is the solution. Well name one country better off than we are, who has socialized healthcare.

 

There are tons of different measurements of "better off" but most Western European countries' citizens are better off than the corresponding US citizen. Better, cheaper health care (socialized), higher average wages, ect...

 

The Human Development Index is a good overall country comparison, and the US only ranks 13th.

 

EDIT: Ironic you talk about indoctrination and think that the US is the best country in the world. And since we are talking about socialized health care, you should look at who has the best health care systems in the world: WHO - the "capitalist" US health system is beaten out by 36 countries with some sort of socialized care.

 

 

lol'd

[Nadril]

Until you can find a list of these people who blow their money on stuff and then don't care when they are in debt and can't afford health care, my point still stands: the vast majority of people who don't have health insurance are poor and should be helped by the more fortunate. It's a fundamental idea of 21st century society.

 

And actually last year I began organizing monthly food drives for the local food pantry.

Blatantly false. Of the previously estimated 46 million "people in America that are without insurance", over 17 million make over $50,000 a year, an estimated 3 million are young risk takers, and 12-15 million are eligible for Medicaid. Take into account illegal immigrants in the statistic and the number falls down to something like 10 million, often less by some estimates. Were essentially spending 1 trillion dollars to make people who dont want insurance get it and shift a bit of the wealth to a couple million that people that aren't even allowed to be denied at a hospital if they're in need anyways. This. Is. Ducked. Up.

 

Not to be a jerk but I think you're five years too early for political debate rocco. Not that my points are infallible (the above numbers are rough), it's just that you're talking a lot more emotion and personal opinion than actual argument based on world events.

 

Why not just do health care then so that hospitals don't have to keep writing off those costs? I mean, the point I'm trying to make is we are paying either way.

 

 

lol'd

 

You have such a way with words.