Hegemony Argument Thread

[a_bert]

An upgrade to your ship.

 

The thing is Retech, if it's not small like that, suddenly everyone has populations of a few hundred billion and then they're making thousands of ships every year within a fortnight and its hard to keep track of and rather than being tactical its just a zerg rush, even with Archi's proposed command limit, it wouldn't stop it.

 

EDIT: all though I guess we could research more efficient ways of farming if people want to zerg

[Retech]

The production system of the first Hegemony was rather logical though. It made having a large population a bad thing, at some times. So basically, instead of basing it on population, we could base it on "number of factories", where you could use some of the factories to build more factories, or to build ships.

[a_bert]

Oh, whats that, more people means you can build more factories means you can build more ships?

 

I don't see what the point of the middle man is.

 

What was the disadvantage to having a huge population?

 

EDIT: If we want farms to give out more population per pop you put in, we simply make it so that when a battleship is completed it consumes the workforce (and then some) that built it.

[Seraphi]

Yeah Dungeon, that's pretty much perfect (To me, at least.)

[Retech]

Oh, I was saying that only factories can build other factories (you start with factories), and factories can build space ships. The population could be used for something else, since I'm assuming we're playing with much smaller spacefaring people.

 

The disadvantage of having a large population is having no where to hide it. :P

[The Dark Lord]

Oh, I was saying that only factories can build other factories (you start with factories), and factories can build space ships. The population could be used for something else, since I'm assuming we're playing with much smaller spacefaring people.

 

The disadvantage of having a large population is having no where to hide it. :P

 

 

That's still stupid. Only factories can build factories? :roll:

[VEGHATERMEATLOVER]

A quick point.

 

If one so wishes, an edict can be issued, (if its something like martial law or a chilling effect there is no need to explain but if its an edict you have made up it requires explaining) These edicts have different effects on the production, the amount of rebellions and whatever else the law can do.

 

Warfare's outcome will be decided by the moderator, based on common sense, numbers, location, clothing and other factors that may take place. I will give the use of meleé weapons a slight bonus simply to encourage use of them in the battle field

 

Technology must be announced and then the moderator will decide a suitible time for it to be finished.

Technology is capped at 1960 (but I may let some things ahead of that slide to add some more gameplay)

If you want to issue something secret (like plant a ninja in someones palace or whatever) you need to send a PM to the Mod and he will note it down and everything.

 

 

The bolded parts, I think could work. There copied off my game (blitzkrieg).

If these changes are implemented in the new hegemony it would allow covert operations, rebelions and an all over more realistic game.

 

Edit: and a better system for random events.

[Retech]

Oh, I was saying that only factories can build other factories (you start with factories), and factories can build space ships. The population could be used for something else, since I'm assuming we're playing with much smaller spacefaring people.

 

The disadvantage of having a large population is having no where to hide it. :P

 

 

That's still stupid. Only factories can build factories? :roll:

 

It doesn't make any sense realistically, but do we really want to go to a population based system? If we do a factory system, then people would be able to customize their races so that they don't have to be humans. Everyone have a different amount of people (which doesn't give an advantage, necessarily), but people would start with the same factories.

 

A quick point.

 

If one so wishes, an edict can be issued, (if its something like martial law or a chilling effect there is no need to explain but if its an edict you have made up it requires explaining) These edicts have different effects on the production, the amount of rebellions and whatever else the law can do.

 

Warfare's outcome will be decided by the moderator, based on common sense, numbers, location, clothing and other factors that may take place. I will give the use of meleé weapons a slight bonus simply to encourage use of them in the battle field

 

Technology must be announced and then the moderator will decide a suitible time for it to be finished.

Technology is capped at 1960 (but I may let some things ahead of that slide to add some more gameplay)

If you want to issue something secret (like plant a ninja in someones palace or whatever) you need to send a PM to the Mod and he will note it down and everything.

 

 

The bolded parts, I think could work. There copied off my game (blitzkrieg).

If these changes are implemented in the new hegemony it would allow covert operations, rebelions and an all over more realistic game.

 

Edit: and a better system for random events.

 

Isn't that basically what we already do?

[VEGHATERMEATLOVER]

A quick point.

 

If one so wishes, an edict can be issued, (if its something like martial law or a chilling effect there is no need to explain but if its an edict you have made up it requires explaining) These edicts have different effects on the production, the amount of rebellions and whatever else the law can do.

 

Warfare's outcome will be decided by the moderator, based on common sense, numbers, location, clothing and other factors that may take place. I will give the use of meleé weapons a slight bonus simply to encourage use of them in the battle field

 

Technology must be announced and then the moderator will decide a suitible time for it to be finished.

Technology is capped at 1960 (but I may let some things ahead of that slide to add some more gameplay)

If you want to issue something secret (like plant a ninja in someones palace or whatever) you need to send a PM to the Mod and he will note it down and everything.

 

 

The bolded parts, I think could work. There copied off my game (blitzkrieg).

If these changes are implemented in the new hegemony it would allow covert operations, rebelions and an all over more realistic game.

 

Edit: and a better system for random events.

 

Isn't that basically what we already do?

 

I've not seen it done, well i've seen archi do something like it but with no system. If a system like this was made clearer to people you would get a loss less arguments about fighting and add a bit more gameplay.

 

 

 

Rech, I think we should only be allowed to have humans in a race.

[Retech]

Well the point is that if we based the system of factories rather than population, there would be no advantage or disadvantage from having a race other than humans. Besides, your rules don't address the primary cause of arguments: new technologies and expansion.

[Seraphi]

I don't think races should affect gameplay in any particular way, they should just be there for the luls.

[Retech]

Exactly, but if we used factories, then we wouldn't have to keep track of the large numbers that we will inevitably come up with population, and it gives a choice between building your army, building your capacity to build your army, or take a bit of both. Basically it makes it more complex while keeping it simple, and it offers customization.

[Nero]

Oh its very much the same thing.

'Your plane doesn't work because it can't fly'

'Look at this calculation which says it can'

'Your plane can't fly'

'Look at this document saying it can'

'Your plane can't fly'

'Yes it can, I have proved that it can within some reasonable measure.'

'Your plane can't fly'

 

More like:

'Your plane doesn't work because it can't fly'

'Posts some random theoretical physics link'

'That isn't even relevant, your plane still can't fly'

'Well, I've been researching it for 10 years now, and invested money into it'

'So? It still won't work'

'YOU'RE STUCK IN THE PAST AND NEED TO ADAPT'

'...what?'

'Look over there! A natural disaster just hit your country, half your population is gone.'

'....'

 

Exactly, but if we used factories, then we wouldn't have to keep track of the large numbers that we will inevitably come up with population, and it gives a choice between building your army, building your capacity to build your army, or take a bit of both. Basically it makes it more complex while keeping it simple, and it offers customization.

We had that system in the first Hegemony, and all I did was spend 50 years building solely factories, and then by the end of the game could churn out like 70k battleships every year.

[Retech]

The thing about building just factories though: since we're all starting from an even plane, then the warmongerer that builds a lot of ships early on will have the advantage in the early game. So there's that nice trade-off.

[archimage_a]

Can't we just say you need 25,000 people, X amount of Machine Parts and 3 years to build a factory and then it employs the 25,000 people to work in the factory after it is completed?

And Machine Parts are made at a rate of 1,000 people per part per year...or 100 per year produced by a factory.

 

That way things stay pretty simple, and if people want to focus on industry they can invest 4 times the number of people(100,000 people would produce 100 parts, compared to a factory and 25,000 people producing 100 parts) and get a boost, without making it easy to zerg the game in the first five minutes.

 

New techs should be dealt with by the moderator, or by some sort of comprehensive list of things technologies can do...People don't like the latter(and would find ways round it...or exploit it) and the former requires Dungeonal to be on most days and to spend alot of time working on stuff.

My idea was to play to the end of April on the current map, then bring out 8 new sectors(so there were 9 in total, in a grid), so the different Empires would spread out. Of course at the end of April there was also to be the Dovan invasion so it would move from the easish expansion to a much harder expansion...but with more resources.

 

Dungeon, I think it would help people if you gave some sort of step by step example of how you thought the first, five? turns would go for a player.

We also need some examples of ships with the modules attached, otherwise we will all be stuffed when it comes to build them.

[Retech]

And how would that system work for a less/more populous alien race? If we had a system that wasn't tied to population, then there wouldn't be an issue. (Assuming someone has a few people of course. Can't make a factory work with no population of course.)

[archimage_a]

You can say that about any system...

 

My race is really small, so we you can't base your system on planet size.

My race doesn't have money, so you can't base your system on money.

My race is made of energy so factories are pointless.

My race are Von Neumann Machines, so they are the factories themselves.

 

Everything breaks down when you start moving outside of 'this is the system and everyone does what the system says'

Unless we have a dozen seperate systems, which I am not opposed to, but people will scream blue murder when someone else develops an addon to their system.

'I begin printing money and double my output'

and so on and so forth.

 

So either we accept that now and trust Dungeonal not to let anyone go overboard...or we just say 'here is the system, it works like this, live with it.'

[Retech]

Or we could go even simpler, my race starts out with this number of times fewer creatures, expands at the same percentage as humans, so each factory requires less people. Basically, everyone would have the same production capability, but it would just be organized differently.

 

Less Population = Each person worth more

 

Besides, the old production point system worked in many ways. The only problem was when the points were affecting the ships, which was where it fell apart.

 

---

 

Basing things on factories would also be much easier. So and so factory produces this amount of production points, each factory costs this amount of production points, and each class of ship costs another amount of production points.

[Seraphi]

Or races could just be there for the lulz and not have any real impact on the game, like I suggested.

 

Some advanced modules could have an equipment requirement, meaning that you need some equipment (Which requires people and resources to build in itself) to create the module, but it is better than usual modules.

[archimage_a]

So what are the advantages of having less people? Aside from being able to hide them. Because it seems that your idea benefits nobody and makes things more complicated....so, really, its a bad idea.

 

The old system did work, its just I defined the point levels differently to Doom...

Then again this is basically the same point system.

 

All stations are the same and a station produces Z number of points.

All planets are the same and a planet produces Y number of points.

It takes X number of points to build a station.

 

We just changed station to factory, and planet to population.

The only thing we are discussing, really, is what X, Y and Z should equal

[Retech]

Roleplaying of course. It doesn't really have an effect, but do we really want Hegemony to be entirely a numbers game all the time? Sometimes what makes Hegemony fun is the interactions between different races, and of course the wars between them. Don't you think it would be more fun to have two different races, rather than human group A attacks human group B?

 

It's the backstabbing, the lying, the posturing, the negotiation, and more that make the Hegemony fun. I'm sure no one just wants to be calculating how many battleships they make they entire time, calculating if they can do something, their force will pull out ahead. It's the little things like this that can create so much. It's an option, there's nothing to change. That's a good idea, if it can only help.

[archimage_a]

If you want to roleplay then you can produce less. In Dusty's words 'If you want to handicap yourself then it is your own stupid fault.' Nobody is stopping you producing less.

[Retech]

I don't think you quite understand. There is no handicapping here. Space battles are never affected by which side has a larger populations, it's the ships. So a person could have less people which are more productive, which balances out the normal player with a normal amount of people at normal productivity. Which is why I suggested just using factories from the beginning, since there won't be a population difference anyways, for quite a while.

 

 

Basically, less creatures of a species = superior species

[archimage_a]

Or you could just have a smaller population, produce less and accept the system as it is, rather than suggesting we change the rules just so you can have some specially advantage which you roleplay somewhen down the line.

[Nero]

That reminds me, how many times have I double crossed people? I must have double crossed Retech... 3 times now? And he still falls for it...

He's too nice and trusting of a person.

 

The real test is to see if you can double-cross a paranoid megalomaniac without them realizing something is up.