Soldiers - Heroes?

[RpgGamer]

Pff WW2 was two bullies fighting eachother.

 

The winner just got the ability to declare himself the "good guy".

 

The winners are always the good guys aren't they ;)

After all, they get to write the history. America wasn't perfect during WWII. We had interment camps of our own. That wasn't too heroic. But you can't watch a classic WWII movie and tell me that there weren't some true heroes involved in the fighting.

[Skull]

Being a soldier doesn't automatically make someone a hero, however it is a catalyst for heroic deeds which is likely why we associate heroism with soldiers.

[Tom_Servo]

I've been thinking lately, why do so many people treat soldiers like heroes?

 

In my opinion the soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan at the moment are not heroes at all, they are just simply doing their job. I say this because they are simply following orders and choosing to participate in a war like Iraq is, in my opinion, morally wrong. The soldiers in Iraq are killing so many civilians that I just cannot see a reason to treat them so well... personally I would rather die than go to Iraq to fight.

I think you are a little misinformed about what goes on in Iraq. There isn't even much fighting anymore and the soldiers are not killing civilians left and right like you seem to think. And while the reasons for starting the war may be questionable, freeing a country from a hated, genocidal dictator is certainly not morally wrong.

 

 

People say "they risk their lives for you and your way of living" etc etc... yet by the same logic wouldn't people who take part in clinical drug trials be heroes to? They are risking their bodies for the advancement of science and medicine right? No. They're just doing it for the money.

No they aren't heroes, but they really aren't risking their lives and they certainly aren't risking them for our way of life either. Firefighters and police officers do, and they are.

 

My view does to apply to soldiers of all wars, just mainly Iraq and Vietnam. (Probably Afghanistan too, but I don't know much about it) For example the soldiers of World War 1 and 2 are heroes to me, as there was a clear and present threat to their country so they went of defend it.

 

Vietnam wasn't a wrong war either. The South Vietnamese were being invaded by an aggressor and asked for help, which we gave. Then the American people wussed out, the soldiers pulled out, and the people of South Vietnam were chased to the southern coast were as many escaped on helicopter and boats as they could and the country ceased to exist. They lost because we gave up. Look at Korea. The Korean War is still going on. Because we helped, South Korea is still free. We almost lost when China joined the side of the North, but we counter attacked and pushed them back to the 38th until a case fire was signed (which has since been ended, and the war continues to this day). The Korean War and the Vietnam War are almost identical. However, in Korea we didn't back down and we didn't give up and because of that, is looked upon in better light.

 

The US helping their allies isn't wrong. Who knows how long WWI would have raged on if it weren't for the US. Did we have to enter it? No. We were making a fortune selling supplies to both sides, though favoring the Entente. Germany warned Americans about traveling on British ships but they didn't listen and a few hundred were unintentionally killed. Then the American people got pissed (9/11 parallel anyone) and entered the war. WWI was the most pointless war in modern times. A teenager killed an archduke on his own accord, a superpower invades a tiny country in response, and the world is at war due to hidden alliances. No good guys, no moral cause- just a bunch of pissed off leaders who were too stubborn to talk.

 

By the way, I'm not flaming, I'm just saying what I think. You're entitled to your own opinions.

[Nero]

Pff WW2 was two bullies fighting eachother.

 

The winner just got the ability to declare himself the "good guy".

 

The winners are always the good guys aren't they ;)

After all, they get to write the history. America wasn't perfect during WWII. We had interment camps of our own. That wasn't too heroic. But you can't watch a classic WWII movie and tell me that there weren't some true heroes involved in the fighting.

Yes but I think the discussion is about what defines a "hero". Someone who fights for his country is not a hero, they're a soldier. However, if someone fights for some other sort of noble cause or even sacrifices himself for his comrades, he's considered a hero.

 

Tbh, I think the idea of a "hero" has been so warped over time that it no longer means "a person who fights for good", but rather, "a person who fights for ME.". I'm sure plenty of Iraqis and Afghans think that the suicide bombers and "resistance fighters" are heroes, yet to us we're presented with the image of a deplorable unhonourable combatant, who hides behind civilians and exploits our "nobility (if such a thing really exists)".

 

But...honestly, how can you fight against America if you're a country like Iraq or Afghanistan? You can't match them with tanks, aircraft, or any other sort of mechanical instrument of war. So, you're forced to hide behind civilians and strike from the shadows. I'm 100% sure that if the soviets invaded America during the cold war and the Americans resisted in much the same manner as the Afghans and Iraqis are nowadays, they'd be lauded as heroes by the population. Yet, we demonize them as the bad guys...why? No because they are actually bad, it's simply because they are fighting back.

 

I think America is going through some sort of warped colonial era right now. Obviously they can't colonize Africa and whatnot, since there are already countries there; but they can sort of bend the political landscape of the world to exploit countries for economical gain, which is the new era of warfare.

 

I think my point has diverged way past the original reply, but I don't really care. *initiates flameshield*

[The Dark Lord]

I agree about soldiers who do heroic acts in order to rescue a fallen comrade being heroes. It is often very easy to discredit soldiers in Iraq/Afghanistan because many Americans view the war as being something that isn't pertinent to our survival. I think Russia is a far greater threat to our national security, to be honest.

 

I think America is going through some sort of warped colonial era right now. Obviously they can't colonize Africa and whatnot, since there are already countries there; but they can sort of bend the political landscape of the world to exploit countries for economical gain, which is the new era of warfare.

 

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[Kriegsmier]

You won't be seeing any movies on this war where the soldiers are portrayed as good guys, unlike WWII but this war is different than any war we've been in before. We're fighting a more or less faceless enemy. If we were out hunting Nazis, they'd be seen as heroes. But at the moment we're attempting to find Taliban. We're not really doing much fighitng.

 

Very true.

[mcneilp]

I respect people that join the military, choosing a job, that in some cases, will put you in harms way on a daily basis. Those people however have signed up knowing that they'll be put in dangerous situations as part of their job, which takes a lot of balls to do in the first place.

When the soldiers get out to Iraq or Afghanistan and are out on missions or whatever, they'll be following orders, which isn't in my view heroic, it's just part of the job. Heroic is when someone does something above and beyond the call of duty, choosing to go back and help fallen comrades, opting to put yourself at unnesessary risk in order to help others, thats heroic.

[Nero]

Haha Sere

[Saru Inc]

I've been thinking lately, why do so many people treat soldiers like heroes?

 

In my opinion the soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan at the moment are not heroes at all, they are just simply doing their job. I say this because they are simply following orders and choosing to participate in a war like Iraq is, in my opinion, morally wrong. The soldiers in Iraq are killing so many civilians that I just cannot see a reason to treat them so well... personally I would rather die than go to Iraq to fight.

 

However, unlike some I do not see them as common murderers either, they are just simply people doing their job, like a banker or a dustbin man..

 

People say "they risk their lives for you and your way of living" etc etc... yet by the same logic wouldn't people who take part in clinical drug trials be heroes to? They are risking their bodies for the advancement of science and medicine right? No. They're just doing it for the money.

 

My view does to apply to soldiers of all wars, just mainly Iraq and Vietnam. (Probably Afghanistan too, but I don't know much about it) For example the soldiers of World War 1 and 2 are heroes to me, as there was a clear and present threat to their country so they went of defend it.

 

I was just wandering what you guys think and if anybody agrees with me.

 

And it is their opinion that they are heroes. And you cannot change them. While you do prove a point with drug trails etc, the drugs are never that dangerous. (Though I have heard of some pretty saddening freak cases)

 

And, while yes it is a job, do you fear for you life at your job? (Or should I say no most Americans who live in Cubicles fear for their lives?)

[Lenticular_J]

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We'd do better than that. Canada and the Afghan area? That's the first week.

 

I MEAN THERE ARE NO PLANS

[Joes_So_Cool]

They're getting paid more then a decent amount, trust me.

[1230abcz]

Free college tuition = 250K+ easy these days. Plus, top notch health care, great pension, and the ability to walk down the street and be called a hero.

[assassin_696]

Undoubtedly, some soldiers are heroes but being a soldier to me doesn't automatically make you a hero. There have been soldiers throughout history who have done cowardly things, I wouldn't call them heroic. For anyone to be classed as a hero they have to do something that is heroic. If somebody in the military does something that is worthy of the term heroic (like an incident which would earn the Victoria Cross here for example) then yes they are a hero but to automatically deem somebody as a hero just because they enlisted seems to be a bit excessive to me. Also I think it's important to acknolwedge the people who do heroic things outside the military, it seems then when people tend to think of heros or heroism it seems to be completely mixed in with war, the military or some form of violence.

 

Again to be abundantly clear, I respect what the military does and the people who do it but they aren't necessarily heroes although some are.

 

I couldn't really put it better myself. I have a lot of respect for anyone in the military because they are serving their country in a dangerous job, but the heroes are the people you hear about who put the lives of their fellow soldiers or anyone else before their immediate safety.

[SkillingWoo]

"All soldiers kill civilians."

"No soldiers do anything heroic."

 

kay, u silly.

[Barihawk]

Free college tuition = 250K+ easy these days. Plus, top notch health care, great pension, and the ability to walk down the street and be called a hero.

 

FYI, the healthcare is not all that great. Unless you are a Congressman or a postal worker, government health insurance sucks. So much so that a Congressman (or postal worker, lest they...go postal) has a completely DIFFERENT insurance company for their government insurance than the military which has a company that is known for being crappy in the first place. And the educational reimbursement is not *that* grand. It would get you into any state school you wanted, however (which is about 40-60,000 dollars for a four year degree). The pension, though, is great. As crappy as the medical insurance is, access to USAA benefits is perhaps the best retirement plan you could ever have, and only takes one term of service to obtain!

[Kriegsmier]

Free college tuition = 250K+ easy these days. Plus, top notch health care, great pension, and the ability to walk down the street and be called a hero.

They're getting paid more then a decent amount, trust me.

 

Not to mention all of the government hoops you have to jump through to get all of that. Especially the GI Bill...what a mess of confusing paperwork that is. And the healthcare....eh. As a reservist I find myself visiting many more civilian docs over the Navy docs when I have access to both. I've seen Navy docs do some crazy things, like pull out a guy's molars thinking they were wisdom teeth. I just trust civilian docs more, the only military docs I trust are Corpsman. USAA though like Barihawk said is great.

[exodus199]

"All soldiers kill civilians."

"No soldiers do anything heroic."

 

kay, u silly.

 

Yeah but neither of those are really what I am saying at all...

 

In talking about civilians dying, it is the war that kills civilians, and soldiers are part of the war.

 

and "No soldiers can do anything heroic" - I never even came close to implying that... the discussion is about whether being a soldier amounts to being a hero, like so many people seem to suggest.

[Amaranth_GTO]

Exodus, a lot of the civilian casualties are not from soldiers. Many are from suicide bombers, the Sunni's killing Shiite's and vice versa, and Iraqi soldiers hitting civilians. I am not saying that no American soldier has killed a civilian because it happens. But not every solder goes into the war thinking that they want to kill a civilian, a very small amount, if any, do.

 

And yeah, USAA kicks [wagon]. So does having access to things like the commissary and everything else they have on base.