Not impossible, but we would have to start on a limited scale and work from there...rather than trying to terraform the entire planet all at once. If we could get a small eco system going, maybe in a vally or something, then we could slowly spread out over hundreds of years.

Terraformation of mars would take hundereds of years and consume most of the worlds funding.

 

I'd say it's pretty implausable.

 

I agree. Terraformation isn't very reasonable right now.

 

It's far better to just build simulated ecosystems in a sort of greenhouse-like megastructure on the surface and just let humans live in that, but we're not even going to Mars for a while, so....

 

 

 

Federation Anthem:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaYsapDNrFw

Archi, it's just that I'm giving specific examples of why there wouldn't be a recession which perfectly fit the bill. I don't really care about my gold reserves, because you can't remove them anyways unless something specifically happens, which would cause everyone's gold to lose valu. I'm pretty sure most of the countries in the world are growing at 5% at this point, with Russia expanding at greater that rate (I believe, don't quote me on that). Infact, Switzerland should have such a small budget because all the drivers of economic growth are gone from there. Of course you're not going to moderate against your own country.

 

Perhaps you should find some specific counterexamples like what I have done? Just because you think the economy will crash doesn't mean it does, especially in this game where we need precedent to do anything. I have precedent, where is yours?

 

------

 

EDIT: That reminds me, I have several precedents for why Switzerland should go down the toilet. Look at North Korea, East Germany, Paraguay, Iran, former Soviet bloc. All repressed by isolationist regimes in the past or the present, leading to an uncompetitive, sluggish economy.

Hehe, except Switzerland isn't trying to grow its economy...Nor is it focusing on trade relationships...So GDP pretty much goes out the window...So....

Oh and look at 1920s America...Represed, Isolationist Democracy...most economically progressive country in the world...

Soviet Union 1930s...Repressed, Isolationist Regime...most economically progressive country in the world...

Nazi Germany 1940s....Repressed, Isolationist Regime....most economically progressive country in the world...

So....

 

Retech, you haven't provided any examples except 'I am investing here'...that isn't an example, it isn't even a concept, its just a vague idea.

I have cited precendent...continually...of the 2009 and 1929 recessions.

But if you want a specific example for your case then Enron Venture Capitalism...You are spending money you don't have, then not putting it on expenditure sheets, so you are spending it again, then you are taking the profits from the money you didn't have and spending that, with the profits of the other money you didn't spend and the profits from the interest you got by not spending any money, and then denying anyone access to your spreadsheets so no one can confirm or deny that you are in fact growing at all.

 

After all I could say 'Switzerland has started highly profitable relations with an unknown country, GDP has increased to 50 trillion a year.' No one can disprove it because I haven't actually said anything. So post a spreadsheet and let me tear it apart...or accept that 2018 will be a bad year for you....and probably the years after that if you carry on.

Actually all we have to do to terraform is to introduce some greenhouse gasses (preferably Sulphur-Fluor due to potency and availabillity), then when the poles start to melt the chalk-ish mineral and acidic dirt of Mars will begin creating CO2 making it hotter so that water vapour starts, then when the atmosphere is thick enough we'll introduce lichen, then moss, then grass and project evergreen, then trees, then as the O2 levels start to rise we'll introduce animals. And then Mars' a second Earth for the next hundred million or so years.

 

How easy mustn't it be to do something on Mars that we try to prevent here?

I am going with Doom's system of 1%. That is spending money that I do have. I thought this was supposed to be a simple game.

 

(I meant isolationist in terms of economy, like closed economy)

 

Nazi Germany had lots of flaws, so did the Soviet Union. It wasn't that economically progressive. You seem to be ignoring your own problems, so fix those before you focus on mine.

You'd need a heck-ton of CO2 to make the ice caps melt, assuming it doesn't just get dragged off into space due to mar's magnetic inactivity.

 

We're not terraforming mars.

Retech, I acknowladge my own problems and am dealing with them...

In other news I am switching to the 1% system and have started trading with an unknown country, my GDP is 90,000 Trillion and I am buying Honda-Toyota. Then I am buying all the Gold on Earth, building a Solid Gold Mech and destroying Japan.

That's nice. Your budget as of 2009 is... 5 billion I believe, and today should be around 7.5 billion. Honda-Toyota shareholders refuse to sell, and your gold mech would easily melt.

Mars is just so small it doesn't pull enough to hold it completely stable, anyways it takes millions of years for it to dissapear.

 

Also, say we need ten billion tons of CO2, Then we need about one-two million tons of sulphur-fluor, we can get sulphur and fluor from the martian soil, then say we make twenty factories to make it, then they must make 50,000-100,000 tons each, say they create 50,000 tons of it each year, then there's only one-two years of work.

Hostile takeover. I sell all of Honda Toyota's factories peicemeal and then use the profits, in the form of silver dollars, as ammunition to destroy Japan.

 

(back in the real world again)

My GDP doesn't exist, since it isn't important. So it really doesn't effect me in anyway....

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostile_takeover#Hostile_takeovers

Because assembling 20 factories on mars when we barely have the tech available to get 30~ people there is no big deal. Also, You'd still need a heckton of CO2 to be transported there.

*Personal Memo*

 

Empire: The Federation

Member States: United States (+ Canada, annexed), United Kingdom (+ Brittany, annexed), Belgium, Luxembourg, and the Netherlands; including Overseas Territories

Federation Symbol: The Eagle

Federation Anthem: I Vow to Thee, my Country (Each state maintains its own anthem, however)

 

Military:

 

United States: 1,473,900 (Active) | 1,458,500 (Reserve) | 453,000 (Paramilitary)

 

Canada: 67,756 (Active) | 35,169 (Reserve) | 9,350 (Paramilitary)

 

United Kingdom: 240,400 (Active) | 176,860 (Reserve) | 0 (Paramilitary)

 

Netherlands: 53,130 (Active) | 32,200 (Reserve) | 3,300 (Paramilitary)

 

Luxembourg: 900 (Active) | 0 (Reserve) | 612 (Paramilitary)

 

Belgium: 39,260 (Active) | 100,500 (Reserve) | 0 (Paramilitary)

 

Federation Totals: 1,875,346 (Active) | 1,803,229 (Reserve) | 466,262 (Paramilitary) | 4,144,837 (Grand Total)

 

Technologies remain classified.

 

Military should be undergoing reforms and possibly see a slash in US military spending.

 

Titles: Best-Equipped and Most Professional Militaries (USA & UK, respectively); Largest Navy; Second-Largest Land Army

Archi, I read the hostile takeover article. It seems to be that to take it over, you pass the company board and go directly to the shareholders. However, that can't work if the shareholders are the Japanese government with the majority...

 

Anyways, I will go with Doom's method for budget, and you can go with your spreadsheet. With Doom's method, I'm probaly underestimating my income, so you shouldn't be worried about that. Anyways, my point is that 5% is not nearly close to game breaking, and won't lead to recession, because it is not overproduction. (Think of the exports as people are replacing their cars when they break) If it was overproduction, then Japan would be growing at 10%+, which I'm obviously not doing, because there is no overproduction.

We start by using the mouch more potent suphur-fluor mix.

 

Also the factories can be built shuttle-load by shuttle-load.

We. Are. Not. Terraforming. Mars.

End of story. I'm done trying to come up with excuses as to WHY we cannot terraform it, but we aren't.

Lol, research British Leyland...That is where Toyata-Honda is going.

 

 

Clearly me having 90,000 Trillion a year is not game breaking...if it was 190,000 Trillion then it would be game breaking, so obviously I am not being sarcastic.

There was a calculation on the cost to make the death star, and the gas alone was a few quadrillion. The GDP of the world ingame is probably ~~75 trillion. And the death star is much smaller than mars/

Well you'd think that they would've developed something better than gasoline for powering the death star. :P

We start by using the mouch more potent suphur-fluor mix.

 

Also the factories can be built shuttle-load by shuttle-load.

 

It also takes like 6 years to get to Mars.

Well you'd think that they would've developed something better than gasoline for powering the death star. :P

I meant the gas for habitation, oxygen, nitrogen co2 etc.

Ok then. So...by Retech's interpretation of Doom's system Japan controls 1/7th of the world economy...or 15%...Which next year will be 16%...and gradually 1% per year....

Well you'd think that they would've developed something better than gasoline for powering the death star. :P

I meant the gas for habitation, oxygen, nitrogen co2 etc.

We were supposed to let the gasses and minerals there, then later plants to do that. :wall:

1% is your surplus. Isn't that basically the whole story?

 

My point is that 5% is a rather modest growth rate, and the world should've grown by that as well. (I'm not exactly sure, but I think China's growth rate and South America add up to 5% growth rate for the world already, if Europe and America grow modestly)

I really can't be bothered...No one else seems to care that, in less than two months, Japan will have a surplus larger than its current GDP. The 1% rule is stupid, the GDP and continual growth system is stupid and we might as well just forget about realism and just approach this game with the stupid numbers from last time.

 

Bah, fine Retech, if people don't care then have your 50 Billion a year profit margin.