I don't find it true. It actualy makes no sense...

 

Why would I need to believe in fairytales in order to have "bones"?

 

Metaphor. First person is saying that his friend thinks of being able to believe or to disbelieve is what makes us what we are, so it's pitiful when a person makes a show of being able to do one but not the other.

Of course, the real question is why would someone need (religious) faith and dogma to be a whole person?

I don't find it true. It actualy makes no sense...

 

Why would I need to believe in fairytales in order to have "bones"?

 

Metaphor. First person is saying that his friend thinks of being able to believe or to disbelieve is what makes us what we are, so it's pitiful when a person makes a show of being able to do one but not the other.

Of course, the real question is why would someone need faith and dogma to be a whole person?

 

It's how we work. It's what makes us human. Being able to believe in something so seemingly rational or irrational, that is.

Care to explain yourself a little more?

A person has to believe in something in order to be able to disregard other people's beliefs. If none one could "believe", then there wouldn't be any need for disbelief in the first place.

I honestly don't see why it matters, why care about what somebody believes in?

If a religion has an honest set of values for a person to live by, theres no reason to argue, unless they're extremists.

 

I think most people that would consider themself religious (speaking about Christians mostly, no idea about the rest of the world..) generally accept the changing values of society, well, from what I've seen personally.

 

The only reason we make such a big deal most of the time is we remember the one or two people that argued with you, or we see on the news etc..

 

My mum was telling me the other day that many people later in life turn to religion, because its more comforting in older age, because it gives their life purpose and it also makes the prospect of death more comforting.

I really don't see how that makes any of us a better/whole person.

I honestly don't see why it matters, why care about what somebody believes in?

If a religion has an honest set of values for a person to live by, theres no reason to argue, unless they're extremists.

When religion has a large effect on a group's politics, one way to attack these politics is to attack the religion.

 

My mum was telling me the other day that many people later in life turn to religion, because its more comforting in older age, because it gives their life purpose and it also makes the prospect of death more comforting.

Good for them if they see it that way.

I really don't see how that makes any of us a better/whole person.

Not being a Scientologist is a good start.

I don't find it true. It actualy makes no sense...

 

Why would I need to believe in fairytales in order to have "bones"?

Maybe I read it differently but I think you can interpret it as a balance between morality and knowledge. Generally, all the knowledge in the world won't help if you don't know what to do with it, or you can be as moral as you want but without knowing what you're talking about you're a raving lunatic. So then, the whole people are the ones that can apply their knowledge.

I don't find it true. It actualy makes no sense...

 

Why would I need to believe in fairytales in order to have "bones"?

Maybe I read it differently but I think you can interpret it as a balance between morality and knowledge. Generally, all the knowledge in the world won't help if you don't know what to do with it, or you can be as moral as you want but without knowing what you're talking about you're a raving lunatic. So then, the whole people are the ones that can apply their knowledge.

 

I can be (an am) a moral person WITHOUT religion.

I don't find it true. It actualy makes no sense...

 

Why would I need to believe in fairytales in order to have "bones"?

Maybe I read it differently but I think you can interpret it as a balance between morality and knowledge. Generally, all the knowledge in the world won't help if you don't know what to do with it, or you can be as moral as you want but without knowing what you're talking about you're a raving lunatic. So then, the whole people are the ones that can apply their knowledge.

 

I can be (an am) a moral person WITHOUT religion.

Which is the problem with saying it's just 'faith and dogma'. But then, it's a pastor's point of view.

Why's that?

Because morality is universal, for the first part.

For the second, the pastor's probably religious, but open minded enough to see that it isn't a black and white issue.

He's a cynical bastard, actually.

 

And the flesh is faith - in whatever you believe in. Yourself, God, whatever. The vast majority of people are blobs. The bones are knowledge. If you know everything about everything, but can't empathize or feel passion for anything to truly have faith in something, you're all bones. Very few people are actually skeletons, because generally someone finds something to have blind faith in, even if it's just blind faith against something else.

 

Now, a full body is a rare sight indeed. Dustin (the pastor friend) said Jesus, Mohammed, Gautama, generally all the great revered ones fulfilled these requirements to become bodies ... Or, holy.

I really don't see how that makes any of us a better/whole person.

 

Are you replying to me :\ ? What differences do you see between dogma, feeling a certain way about something, and belief? How about the differences between a being who perceives subjectively and a being who perceives objectively?

That still doesn't mean religion makes anyone a better/whole person.

That still doesn't mean religion makes anyone a better/whole person.

Statically religious people are happier. Happier people are generally more productive and pleasant. people strive for happiness in their, some make it their center objective (which is funny because its subjective :P)

I think religon is a waste of time, honestly. Do I believe there is a god? I don't know. It's a paradox: How would have the universe have started without someone or something to do it? And how was that created? Ect. I think teaching the religious stories are about as effective as a fairy tale. They can be interesting, but the entire story is about the moral, or lesson learned. So instead of teaching old stories that some consider to be wastes of time, why don't we teach morals? Be good to others, be good to yourself. The world would benefit much more from that, if you ask me.

 

The world is my country, and my religon is to do good

That still doesn't mean religion makes anyone a better/whole person.

Statically religious people are happier. Happier people are generally more productive and pleasant. people strive for happiness in their, some make it their center objective (which is funny because its subjective :P)

I really question where you're getting those statistics from..

From my own observation, one's religion, or lack thereof really has very little effect on one's happiness. I've met some very happy atheists and very unhappy and bitter atheists. Likewise, I've met some very happy theists and very unhappy and bitter theists. That said, I might be able to agree that people with strong beliefs/non-beliefs have a slight tendency to be happier.

That still doesn't mean religion makes anyone a better/whole person.

Statically religious people are happier. Happier people are generally more productive and pleasant. people strive for happiness in their, some make it their center objective (which is funny because its subjective :P)

I really question where you're getting those statistics from..

From my own observation, one's religion, or lack thereof really has very little effect on one's happiness. I've met some very happy atheists and very unhappy and bitter atheists. Likewise, I've met some very happy theists and very unhappy and bitter theists. That said, I might be able to agree that people with strong beliefs/non-beliefs have a slight tendency to be happier.

 

He's correct about his statistics, and that actually makes sense. Living your life believing some guardian angel is there for you, or that an omnipotent being is by your side, should make most happier.

 

However, the fact that religous people are statistically happier does not mean-

1. That they're better people (and neither that they're not).

2. That because of religion they're "whole".

3. That belief (or lack of) is 'the' factor to happiness.

 

The fact that they're happier could be compared to a drunk man being happier than a sober one.

 

 

I repeat- "I really don't see how that makes any of us a better/whole person. "

That still doesn't mean religion makes anyone a better/whole person.

Statically religious people are happier. Happier people are generally more productive and pleasant. people strive for happiness in their, some make it their center objective (which is funny because its subjective :P)

I really question where you're getting those statistics from..

From my own observation, one's religion, or lack thereof really has very little effect on one's happiness. I've met some very happy atheists and very unhappy and bitter atheists. Likewise, I've met some very happy theists and very unhappy and bitter theists. That said, I might be able to agree that people with strong beliefs/non-beliefs have a slight tendency to be happier.

 

 

 

Well there will always be exceptions.

 

And at Romy's post above me, you are correct in that correlation does not automatically mean causation, but surely it hints towards it.

 

I mean, in my life personally Religion has made me very happy, Religious PEOPLE who misinterpret th e Bible and then spread that filth like its the truth makes me life a veritable hell.

I mean, in my life personally Religion has made me very happy, Religious PEOPLE who misinterpret th e Bible and then spread that filth like its the truth makes me life a veritable hell.

 

Care to elaborate on that?

I mean, in my life personally Religion has made me very happy, Religious PEOPLE who misinterpret th e Bible and then spread that filth like its the truth makes me life a veritable hell.

 

Care to elaborate on that?

It's like Comic Con. Sure you like Batman so you go to the convention, hang out with other fans, and dress up as him. But as soon as you go to the outside world and proclaim Superman will save us all in your tights, that's not acceptable.

I meant the "Religious PEOPLE who misinterpret th e Bible" part.

I meant the "Religious PEOPLE who misinterpret th e Bible" part.

With the billion or so Christians out there, and the very small minority that are actually dangerous... Most people know not to follow the violent bits, and that's a GOOD thing.