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Dungeoneering: F2P 90+ Combat Nerf


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So, as you may know, on the day of release, Jagex decided to make some changes to Dungeoneering in F2P. The thread can be found here.

Change to dungeoneering xp on a f2p world.

 

Hi

 

We have made a change that will affect the rate of dungeoneering xp obtained on a free (f2p) world. This change will mainly effect players with a combat level above 90. 95% of f2p players will not notice any difference.

 

To better explain this change, I need to first explain the differences between high-level f2p and members (p2p) dungeoneering.

 

Within the dungeon, a f2p player only has access to equipment up to tier 5, whereas a member has access to all the tiers of equipment. Because the f2p dungeon contains lower levelled gear, we only allow lower levelled monsters to be used on f2p worlds, including the final boss. We call this a monster cap. All dungeoneering dungeons use a monster cap of some sort, based on your partys estimated combat level.

 

As you know, a high level player in RuneScape has the ability to hit hard because of a high strength skill, and can defend well due to a high defence stat. If youre a high level player in a free to play dungeon, even though you only have access to tier 5 gear, youll still hack through the monsters very fast because of your high levels, meaning youre completing your dungeons faster than anyone else. This is where our issue comes in: It was intended that our dungeon xp calculations would take account of this reduction in time, however this was not the case. The changes we have made will simply re-introduce the system we had intended to release with.

 

In summary, we just werent capping the xp in the same way we were capping the strength of the monsters. This meant it was actually faster for a member to train the skill on a free world which was not the intention on launch. Members have access to a greater range of monster levels and therefore harder dungeons, and so should have access to a faster rate of xp.

 

We have now changed this as it was intended to be and have capped the xp that high level players can gain on a f2p world.

 

We are aware that players who trained the skill over the last 24 hours have gained additional xp because of this mistake. We apologise for the short term effect of this on the high scores. In the long term, this has only effected 0.2% of the total xp needed to max out the skill - a tiny effect on the race to lvl 99.... Or indeed to 120.

So, why exactly am I ranting about this? It is because of these simple facts...

1. This is saying that 95% of F2Pers are just low-leveled? I know for a FACT that's not true, as there's way more than 5% high levels in the F2P population.

2. This "capping" is not just a cap, it's a straight 50% reduction in exp.

3. They ONLY punished players with a combat level over 90 on F2P worlds.

 

I understand why Jagex did this (members training on a F2P world was faster), but why in this manner? This is hurting the legitimate high level F2Pers and ex-members.

 

Also, even high levels can't exactly get through the dungeons that fast. Mainly because of the boss, but there's also stuff like level 54 fractite warriors.

 

Here are the plausible alternatives:

1. Cap the exp for ALL F2Pers and (ex-)members, not just the high level ones.

2. Possibly double the exp on P2P servers.

3. ONLY cap the exp on F2P worlds for those who are currently members (those who still have membership credit). If canceled, the exp will be back to normal.

4. Change the way exp capping works. Instead of a 50% penalty, why not base it on the amount of exp gained in the dungeon? (Not really sure how to explain this...)

5. Possibly make this 50% into a 25% penalty instead, so it wouldn't be so severe.

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Eh, I feel Jagex want to tempt you into buying membership. Many online MMO offer faster exp rate if you buy some items(Ebony/WoL etc), so my response is going to be buy membership.

 

Was it too harsh? Perhaps, I just feel that after having an update that gives hundreds of hours of gameplay, F2P should not ask too much right now.

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Whats the difference between combat level 89 and 90? 1 prayer level? 1 constitution level?

How does that warrant a straight up 50% nerf? 1 level doesn't make it twice as fast to train.

 

Also, F2P isn't able completely do a dungeon. Figure every other dungeon I can't get 5-8% of the bonus for clearing out all the rooms, because of a member room, and about every fourth or fifth dungeon has a room with a level that's 100+, and I can't get 5-8% of the bonus, where a member could pot up.

So in addition to the 50% nerf, I'm faced with about 8-10% less bonus experience.

 

 

Why haven't Jagex cut slayer experience for maxed players? Don't they gain experience faster than low level members? They haven't because its ridiculous. :angry:

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My response is still going to be buy membership, in the end the thing here is that members will train faster than free players. Higher F2P players will train faster than lower level F2P players at D'eering, if the latter is not the case then yes it should be fixed. However it seems that the exp rate is going to be fine.

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Whats the difference between combat level 89 and 90? 1 prayer level? 1 constitution level?

How does that warrant a straight up 50% nerf? 1 level doesn't make it twice as fast to train.

 

Also, F2P isn't able completely do a dungeon. Figure every other dungeon I can't get 5-8% of the bonus for clearing out all the rooms, because of a member room, and about every fourth or fifth dungeon has a room with a level that's 100+, and I can't get 5-8% of the bonus, where a member could pot up.

So in addition to the 50% nerf, I'm faced with about 8-10% less bonus experience.

 

 

Why haven't Jagex cut slayer experience for maxed players? Don't they gain experience faster than low level members? They haven't because its ridiculous. :angry:

Actually, depending on how you look are the 'bonuses',(and I use the term 'bonus' in this case, very lightly), you lose about +110% bonus exp if you can't open any bonus rooms.

 

My response is still going to be buy membership, in the end the thing here is that members will train faster than free players. Higher F2P players will train faster than lower level F2P players at D'eering, if the latter is not the case then yes it should be fixed. However it seems that the exp rate is going to be fine.

Hey Sonic, how long on average does a solo dungeon take you?

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It's probably been said over and over, but the reason for Jagex doing this was because members were going on to free to play servers and getting faster experience instead of playing the members game with more features to enjoy, a more balanced rate of experience and a greater level of difficulty. In essence it's because of members abusing the free game's mechanics that is getting us free players such a horrible cap to our experience, and now we're being told to pay? Every time I've heard someone telling me to play because of what they or the friends, my friends, complete strangers, the people they inadvertently represent may have done, it feels like such a slap in the face. It is both humiliating and aggravating.

 

Rather than a cap to our experience, I'd like to see a system that decides the strength of opposing monsters relative to the players level, it could be universally implemented, also it would also maintain the interest in going members, because you'd get stronger monsters (due summoning levels being counted to combat there) and you stand a better chance at surviving thanks to stronger equipment.

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My response is still going to be buy membership, in the end the thing here is that members will train faster than free players. Higher F2P players will train faster than lower level F2P players at D'eering, if the latter is not the case then yes it should be fixed. However it seems that the exp rate is going to be fine.

The latter is not the case, due to the cap. That is why I'm saying it should be fixed.

 

The best solution would be to cap the exp for ALL PLAYERS on ALL F2P WORLDS, which is why I listed it as choice number 1.

 

@ greenmelf: A solo dungeon usually takes like 10-15 minutes, provided I always do complexity 6. Each round I would roughly get 700-1k exp, depending on my luck with the puzzles and bonus rooms.

 

I'm assuming greenmelf and sees_all trains slower than I do now? That just isn't logical, seeing as I'm MUCH lower leveled than either of them. (Combat 84)

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Why didn't they just apply the cap to *members* playing on non-member worlds then?

 

Though as usual, F2Pers have nothing to legitimately complain about here. You got a very nice, very large update to a game you pay nothing for. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

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Why didn't they just apply the cap to *members* playing on non-member worlds then?

 

Though as usual, F2Pers have nothing to legitimately complain about here. You got a very nice, very large update to a game you pay nothing for. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

Read above, you do realize one of my suggestions was to put ALL players on F2P worlds at a disadvantage, right?

 

And what you just said was a suggestion of mine too.

 

Oh and the F2P 90+ cap came AFTER the update, not before.

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I'm saying I agree that they could have done this a bit more intelligently. But at the same time, I disagree on principle with people who get something for free complaining that it isn't good enough for them.

Qeltar, aka Charles Kozierok

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My response is still going to be buy membership, in the end the thing here is that members will train faster than free players. Higher F2P players will train faster than lower level F2P players at D'eering, if the latter is not the case then yes it should be fixed. However it seems that the exp rate is going to be fine.

The latter is not the case, due to the cap. That is why I'm saying it should be fixed.

 

The best solution would be to cap the exp for ALL PLAYERS on ALL F2P WORLDS, which is why I listed it as choice number 1.

 

@ greenmelf: A solo dungeon usually takes like 10-15 minutes, provided I always do complexity 6. Each round I would roughly get 700-1k exp, depending on my luck with the puzzles and bonus rooms.

 

I'm assuming greenmelf and sees_all trains slower than I do now? That just isn't logical, seeing as I'm MUCH lower leveled than either of them. (Combat 84)

The point exactly, a solo dungeon takes me, I think, 10 - 20 minutes, basically the same exact time, and I get half the exp for it.

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I'm assuming greenmelf and sees_all trains slower than I do now? That just isn't logical, seeing as I'm MUCH lower leveled than either of them. (Combat 84)

 

I'm 94 combat. When you get to my dungeoneering level, you'll train 2x as fast as I do (provided that you don't reach 90 combat). It takes me 10-15 minutes to clear out a dungeon, same as any of you. The only advantage that I have is my 94 strength that took me hundreds of hours of grinding to get, which you too can get by grinding.

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I'm assuming greenmelf and sees_all trains slower than I do now? That just isn't logical, seeing as I'm MUCH lower leveled than either of them. (Combat 84)

 

I'm 94 combat. When you get to my dungeoneering level, you'll train 2x as fast as I do (provided that you don't reach 90 combat). It takes me 10-15 minutes to clear out a dungeon, same as any of you. The only advantage that I have is my 94 strength that took me hundreds of hours of grinding to get, which you too can get by grinding.

I honestly don't understand their logic, the skill is supposed to be a 'prestige skill'. But if high levels aren't rewarded, or worse, punished; it completely destroys the 'prestigious' nature of the skill in f2p and just makes it some f'd up skill that takes way too long to level.

 

 

I'd like to see someone make a topic on RSOF discussing how the f2p imbalance ruins the prestige, and see if jagex actually responds.

They won't.

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I was pure f2p from 2004-2009. Got p2p in 2009 to buy my str cape, in that short time I was members I got a glimpse at just how badly f2p REALLY have it.

 

But tbh, for 9 years prior to this f2p have always been at a disadvantage- now they're picking on our high players, I just don't think they like the fact that people play their game so much and aren't paying for it :P

 

regardless, we're used to it by now, but I do agree with what you're saying :)

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I was pure f2p from 2004-2009. Got p2p in 2009 to buy my str cape, in that short time I was members I got a glimpse at just how badly f2p REALLY have it.

 

But tbh, for 9 years prior to this f2p have always been at a disadvantage- now they're picking on our high players, I just don't think they like the fact that people play their game so much and aren't paying for it :P

 

regardless, we're used to it by now, but I do agree with what you're saying :)

 

FTP hasn't been around for that long.

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now they're picking on our high players, I just don't think they like the fact that people play their game so much and aren't paying for it :P

Actually, it's because of the fact members have been abusing the F2P dungeoneering system to get extremely fast exp.

 

Jagex aren't deliberately trying to punish F2P, this solution was a last resort (and a lousy one at that).

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FTP hasn't been around for that long.

February 2001 - RSC F2P Was Born.

April 2010 - Today's date.

 

I think it's been a little over 9 years...

 

but f2p wasn't at a 'disadvantage' for the period before p2p was introduced, so they are both wrong

 

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No support.

 

 

Members were not abusing the f2p game.

They were being smart. The f2p dungeons ARE easier.

 

 

I agree that the 90 combat rule is clumsy it should have applied to anyhow with 75/80/90+ in magic range or melle stat's in f2p.

Or which ever cut-off jagex chose as being higher level.

 

 

 

This doesn't punish anyone.

There are only a few items for sale to free to play.

You can get those tokens and you don't have to train further unless you like the skill.

 

Stop whining, you got a whole new skill (minigame). Jagex won't be changing this.

 

For any skill that both members and f2p have it is much faster to train it in members.

 

Dungeon batch 2 will probably be all members anyhow.

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No support.

 

 

Members were not abusing the f2p game.

They were being smart. The f2p dungeons ARE easier.

 

 

I agree that the 90 combat rule is clumsy it should have applied to anyhow with 75/80/90+ in magic range or melle stat's in f2p.

Or which ever cut-off jagex chose as being higher level.

 

 

 

This doesn't punish anyone.

There are only a few items for sale to free to play.

You can get those tokens and you don't have to train further unless you like the skill.

 

Stop whining, you got a whole new skill (minigame). Jagex won't be changing this.

 

For any skill that both members and f2p have it is much faster to train it in members.

 

Dungeon batch 2 will probably be all members anyhow.

Your post seems to me like to read the topic title and posted without reading anything in the topic.

 

The issue is not over 90 combat f2p being nerfed.

The issue is under 90 combat f2p not being nerfed the same as over 90 combat f2p.

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I wish they'd find a way to simply put a cap on members playing in f2p, or if they can't do that another alternative to look at is capping the total levels on f2p as opposed to combat levels (ie. a total level cap of 1300, 1400 or 1500 effects a lot less f2p players while still restricting many p2p players). Though naturally then that's unfair to the very high pure f2p players.

 

I'd support Jagex if they just made it a blanket reduction to all f2p players as you suggested. In many/most f2p skills its a lot faster (I'd guess 2x faster) to train them in p2p, so why should dungeoneering be any different. (right now I can train it at about the same rate on a low level f2p pure as my main)

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The issue is not over 90 combat f2p being nerfed.

The issue is under 90 combat f2p not being nerfed the same as over 90 combat f2p.

Therefore, under 90 combat players (such as me) train much faster than over 90 combat players.

 

@ neltak: :blink: Didn't know that even a low level F2P pure can train it as fast as a member.

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At a prestige level of 27, when I solo and complete a small dungeon, I rarely get over 2k experience. When I duo a medium sized dungeon, I magically get more than double the prestige. Is this the same for everyone? It also seems that with another decent player, and enough teleports, a medium dungeon that you duo is about as fast as a small dungeon that you solo.... I'll have to time myself next time (for about 5-10 dungeons on medium), and time myself on a solo (another 5-10 dungeons).

 

 

 

I also think its a bit underhanded that jagex didn't sticky the RSOF post.

99 dungeoneering achieved, thanks to everyone that celebrated with me!

 

♪♪ Don't interrupt me as I struggle to complete this thought
Have some respect for someone more forgetful than yourself ♪♪

♪♪ And I'm not done
And I won't be till my head falls off ♪♪

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OHHH!!!! I see where Jagex is getting at now.

 

They nerfed the experience in F2P worlds if and ONLY if you are playing solo dungeons. This probably explains why you get more than double the experience when you duo, but back to the 50% penalty when you solo.

 

So perhaps that's why some F2Pers have very high dungeoneering levels?

 

But still, it's unfair that Jagex ONLY punished the high-levels. This has to be changed.

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