Dungeoneering: Beyond the Release

[AlexRose]

Alex, i've yet to see anyone actually do any extencive testing on solo anyway, with everyone claiming the xp being so bad. As noone has tested it and i'm the only one providing any figures on experiance at all, why would i want to tell anyone what to do? It'd be in my best intrest if someone else did some testing on the xp aswell, but in the absense of trust and trying something instead of just spitting words out of your mouth, I can rest assured that soloing still is a viable option if i ever get frustrated teaming(atleast for me it is, because i know the word average).

 

Because you were attempting to submit your rates as a valid, attainable standard for a discussion that centered around these supposed rates (that or you just wanted to be an arrogant jerk, which I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on). And see, this is the problem; we have no way of repeating your rates, and therefore we cannot confirm it. Why is that? Because you have not given us the supposed information required to achieve those rates, and instead we're getting the rates we normally do. Hence, we can't confirm it.

 

Why am I not questioning Qeltar's rates like yours? One reason is that I have in fact gotten around the rates he has. But then that's still just hearsay. The real reason is that Qeltar has in fact provided evidence on how to obtain the rates he has. He has an entire guide devoted to explaining how he got the rates he did. Thus, his rates have repeatability; when I follow his guide (and I did in-fact play fairly closely to what he suggested before I had read it), I consistently get his experience rates. Thus, his experience rates are proven by repeatability. Did he test his own rates thousands of times? Judging from his Dungeoneering level, most likely not. But is his experience rate repeatable, as given by the direction of his guide? Yes it is.

 

That's fantastic that you are self assured of your own rates, but the rest of us are not. If you wish to assure us of their validity, which is the only reason I'd imagine you'd post them in the first place, then I suggest you give us the information required to be able to repeat your rates.

[xpx]

Well it still doesn't justify doubting the figures IF YOU HAVE NEVER TRIED it yourself. As far as i'm concerned, the fact that people put a blindfold on and say everything i see is make belief is not an argument. I have no intrest in coaching people how to dungeoneer, rather i'm interested if there are better methods i can implement myself, and if people dungeoneer just the way i do then what's the point of disclosing it at all?

[AlexRose]

Well it still doesn't justify doubting the figures IF YOU HAVE NEVER TRIED it yourself. As far as i'm concerned, the fact that people put a blindfold on and say everything i see is make belief is not an argument. I have no intrest in coaching people how to dungeoneer, rather i'm interested if there are better methods i can implement myself, and if people dungeoneer just the way i do then what's the point of disclosing it at all?

 

I am completely justified doubting your figures because you have not provided me with a way to try your method. That's the entire issue. We aren't saying that you're untrustworthy, or a liar, or anything like that. But your rates themselves are unreliable because we have no proof otherwise, which you and you alone can rectify. Qeltar has a guide describing how he got his experience rates; where's your proof?

 

And if you would tell us your secret, then perhaps we could find a way to improve on it, whether through trial and error or otherwise. At the very start of Dungeoneering, the community believed that Smalls were the way to go. At that point, we weren't really certain about how the experience worked, so we just assumed that doing Smalls would be faster. Eventually, some higher level dungeoneers realized that Larges were in fact very good for teams, and shared it with the rest of us. In exchange, the rest of the community with a bit of trial and error improved the methods of going through the Large dungeons and developed more and more optimal ways of experience (not killing every monster was one of these). Through sheer numbers, the Large dungeoneering method was improved through the community, because the select few who discovered it decided to share the method.

 

Now in your case, if your method relied on, say doing Complex 1 for the beginning floors, then switching back to Complex 6 for the later floors, then perhaps we could figure out the optimal floor to stop doing Complex 1 and start doing Complex 6, or how to do Complex 1 more effiecently, and so on. That's the entire point of a discussion board and community; to discuss, to improve, and not with merely yourself. In this case, you gain everything from telling your secret.

[A0z9]

Guys, can we please stop this argument so we can continue about the batch 2, please?

[AlexRose]

Guys, can we please stop this argument so we can continue about the batch 2, please?

 

I would suggest bringing up something something relevant to Batch 2 (and this was, at one point, relevant. A while back), so that we have some subject material besides this argument. And I think we are just about wrapping this argumen up, actually.

[Sly_Wizard]

XPX, approximately what amount of experience do you get at your prestige level?

[bedman]

I've already mentioned enough figures that i have myself tested. 30k an hour pure soloing, 40k an hour soloing 1-29, large dungeons 30-35, 35k an hour on an average team(5:5 small 1-24, 5:5 large 25-35), 50-55k an hour on a very good team(1-11 5:3 12-27 5:5 small 28-35 5:5 large, same team trourought the floors).

Okay, when you say "30k an hour pure soloing" what exactly do you mean? Doing all 35 floors the same way? Doing some in different ways? What complexity level and bound items?

 

Also, what strategy are you using? Meaning: kill every monster, kill all monsters except dead ends, kill only monsters in guardian rooms, etc?

 

tortilliachp: This is a discussion board. There's not much to discuss about what Jagex has said about this, which is virtually nothing.

The figures are timed by myself doing almost all differant floors(34 differant floors) in 2 patches alone, 2 items bound, C6. I can't reveal all my secrets that concern dungeon efficency and getting a nice level mod even though rushing, you'll just have to learn for yourself, i'm almost certain that there are people who can solo even faster than i can.

 

As far as i can tell, you have quite a bit still to learn about soloing and how to do it fast.

"I can't reveal all my secrets".

 

That's pretty arrogant :(

I'm not a walking guide, if you want to learn something, go to school.

 

You can call me a liar how many times you want, but when i say i can do dungeons in an average time of 8 minutes 50 seconds and others have reported times anywhere from 8 to 10 minutes(people who know what they are doing, that is) there is hardly anything to lie about, unlesss i paid the other guys, ofcource.

 

Also, yes, i have learned som methods to maximize soloing xp, while not giving a significant xp boost, the extra 2-4k an hour can make all the differance. You'll just have to solo yourself and get to know what's best for you. Not everything has to be delivered on a silver platter.

 

Just FYI, I didn't say I don't believe you,. I'm just wondering if there really are some "secrets", or that those are just mainly using your common sense and experience ( don't wast time killing high lvl monsters but perhaps always kill the lvl 3 monsters since you 1 hit them, yet the still count as one monster, if there are 2 doors, open both first so see if one of them is a dead end with a key you need for the other ones, things like that). It's not like I'm a random nub who is asking for a complete guide on how to solo efficiently ...

[xpx]

Well it still doesn't justify doubting the figures IF YOU HAVE NEVER TRIED it yourself. As far as i'm concerned, the fact that people put a blindfold on and say everything i see is make belief is not an argument. I have no intrest in coaching people how to dungeoneer, rather i'm interested if there are better methods i can implement myself, and if people dungeoneer just the way i do then what's the point of disclosing it at all?

 

I am completely justified doubting your figures because you have not provided me with a way to try your method. That's the entire issue. We aren't saying that you're untrustworthy, or a liar, or anything like that. But your rates themselves are unreliable because we have no proof otherwise, which you and you alone can rectify. Qeltar has a guide describing how he got his experience rates; where's your proof?

 

And if you would tell us your secret, then perhaps we could find a way to improve on it, whether through trial and error or otherwise. At the very start of Dungeoneering, the community believed that Smalls were the way to go. At that point, we weren't really certain about how the experience worked, so we just assumed that doing Smalls would be faster. Eventually, some higher level dungeoneers realized that Larges were in fact very good for teams, and shared it with the rest of us. In exchange, the rest of the community with a bit of trial and error improved the methods of going through the Large dungeons and developed more and more optimal ways of experience (not killing every monster was one of these). Through sheer numbers, the Large dungeoneering method was improved through the community, because the select few who discovered it decided to share the method.

 

Now in your case, if your method relied on, say doing Complex 1 for the beginning floors, then switching back to Complex 6 for the later floors, then perhaps we could figure out the optimal floor to stop doing Complex 1 and start doing Complex 6, or how to do Complex 1 more effiecently, and so on. That's the entire point of a discussion board and community; to discuss, to improve, and not with merely yourself. In this case, you gain everything from telling your secret.

 

This was posted by me 2 days ago and is the backbone of what my soloing method includes....and well..it's pretty straightforward in what you described.

 

The skill as we all know was never meant to be soloed, and implying, while taking all the beforementioned information into account, that soloing experiance should be increased is just childish. It's already good enough, in my opinion, that you are at all able to solo, and the fact that the experiance isn't at all terrible(well, it is terrible if you are really poor at it, as most people seem to be), it really is good enough as it is.(for the information of fact, i have timed myself to do 6,8 dungeons an hour with all doors opened, average -4 level mod and around 4,4k experiance per dungeon trough all floors, if you can't achieve atleast this then your propably doing something wrong)

 

The only things i'm not disclosing are the armor, weapons or what i kill in the dungeon, but that's pretty straightforward for everyone. It's c6 dungons anyway, as i've mentioned before, i never do anything below c6. There is a bit more information on the trial i did to time the xp, but i guess you'd not be bothered to look it up or read it anyway.

 

Also, all in all, i just don't understand why i'd be called a lier with achieving 30k an hour while soloing, it's only 20% off from the figures posted by qeltar(and we have no idea how experianced that guy is in soloing) and neraly 2x less xp than what the best dungeoneers are getting, why would i lie and make the figures reasnoble, or even downright pointless? The reason? the people who post don't solo in dungeoneering, and the fact that i'm using my leagal right to withhold information in order to get them to try it out and perhaps improve on it just infuriates them.

 

Just FYI, I didn't say I don't believe you,. I'm just wondering if there really are some "secrets", or that those are just mainly using your common sense and experience ( don't wast time killing high lvl monsters but perhaps always kill the lvl 3 monsters since you 1 hit them, yet the still count as one monster, if there are 2 doors, open both first so see if one of them is a dead end with a key you need for the other ones, things like that). It's not like I'm a random nub who is asking for a complete guide on how to solo efficiently ...

I never said what exactly i'm keeping in secret and those two things you mentioned would count as ''secrets''. I've also mentioned that they help me get around 2-4k experiance more an hour, but i doubt anyone bothered to read that aswell.

[Viv]

do you skip any puzzles or do you skip 100+ doors while soloing? or skip absolutly nothing? =p

[xpx]

do you skip any puzzles or do you skip 100+ doors while soloing? or skip absolutly nothing? =p

I'm very good at doing puzzles(usually do the rc floor in the fight fashion) and skip the floors i don't have the levels to complete(100+ doors for you). But i guess these are quite what everyone expect from an efficent solo.

 

As i mentioned, with 35 prestige the average xp i got is around 4.4k, 35 prestige i think is 6069.

[Beethovens29]

i don't like the idea of having "roles"....well actually excuse me, i don't like how i wud imagine jagex wud implement the roles into the mini-game..err i mean skill. if they were to implement those roles and hav them be similar to the kind in barbarian assault, then it wud defeat the purpose of the point of creativity in the skill. skills r meant to be free and easy going....not tight and restricting us to a certain boundary. but if the roles are simply an accessory, then by all means it seems like a really cool idea.

 

i also like how they are trying to make it seem MORE of a skill by implementing dungeoneering outside of Deamonheim. although now it seems closer to a random event/distraction&diversion, it is indeed a step closer into making it "skill-like".

[Omali]

This is like watching two people who don't really speak English try to have an argument.

 

"These are my claims and they are valid."

"I do not doubt you, but your claims."

"My claims are valid, and I shall not reveal secrets."

"I do not doubt you, but your claims."

"I shall not reveal my secrets, but my claims are valid."

"I am not doubt your claims, but they are not valid."

"My valid, they are claims."

[qeltar]

This is like watching two people who don't really speak English try to have an argument.

 

"These are my claims and they are valid."

"I do not doubt you, but your claims."

"My claims are valid, and I shall not reveal secrets."

"I do not doubt you, but your claims."

"I shall not reveal my secrets, but my claims are valid."

"I am not doubt your claims, but they are not valid."

"My valid, they are claims."

I just woke up and am kinda tired, so at first I misread "claims" above as "clams".

 

I just want to state for the record that I do not doubt xpx's clams. I'm sure they are very fresh and of the highest quality.

[darksonic45]

This is like watching two people who don't really speak English try to have an argument.

 

"These are my claims and they are valid."

"I do not doubt you, but your claims."

"My claims are valid, and I shall not reveal secrets."

"I do not doubt you, but your claims."

"I shall not reveal my secrets, but my claims are valid."

"I am not doubt your claims, but they are not valid."

"My valid, they are claims."

I just woke up and am kinda tired, so at first I misread "claims" above as "clams".

 

I just want to state for the record that I do not doubt xpx's clams. I'm sure they are very fresh and of the highest quality.

I lol'd much harder then I should have.

[Youmu]

About this whole efficiency thing, I actually prefer doing meds with a friend or two. Maybe more if I felt like it.

 

The exp is not that bad (~6k-8k exp per floor @ pres 31), and they don't take too long to complete (half hour is probably the average).

 

Then again, I'm F2P, which means I get less exp killing monsters/bosses since they are significantly lower leveled.

 

I prefer to think of meds as the "casual" approach (or "happy medium" as qeltar says :P ): not too bad, and not the most efficient, but fun to do.

 

And about Batch 2, I really hope the boss monsters are harder, and hope that Bilrach won't be a disappointment.

[AlexRose]

I just want to state for the record that I do not doubt xpx's clams. I'm sure they are very fresh and of the highest quality.

 

I do not doubt you, but your claim over the claim for clams is invalid.

 

 

Anyway, I'm glad that's over with. That was quite possibly the most boring and attrictional argument I've ever had. I litterally just reworded my argument five times and slightly adjusted it to counter whatever points he brought up.

 

 

I prefer to think of meds as the "casual" approach (or "happy medium" as qeltar says ): not too bad, and not the most efficient, but fun to do.

 

And about Batch 2, I really hope the boss monsters are harder, and hope that Bilrach won't be a disappointment.

 

Mediums do indeed seem to be the least stressful dungeons, even when we're going for speed. I would like to see some actual tests done and see how quickly they can be completed. Maybe then I can convince the "maximum efficiency" crowd to do a few.

 

I think your F2p status may be affecting the boss difficultly. Granted, they aren't insanely difficult, but they can be pretty tough on Larges.

 

 

Anyway, Qeltar. Using the Snake Eye (Complex 1, 1:1, etc.) method for the first 25 floors, as you suggest, and your average "Prestige" experience is 1650, then you do Larges for the last ten floors, and gain 50k experience for each dungeon that takes on average an hour, then you'd be getting 38.8k experience per hour. Congratulations, your method gives you 4k more experience than if you had just done all the floors on large.

[qeltar]

I just want to state for the record that I do not doubt xpx's clams. I'm sure they are very fresh and of the highest quality.

 

I do not doubt you, but your claim over the claim for clams is invalid.

 

 

Anyway, I'm glad that's over with. That was quite possibly the most boring and attrictional argument I've ever had. I litterally just reworded my argument five times and slightly adjusted it to counter whatever points he brought up.

The funny thing is that part of me wants to try doing a full run of 1-35 solo on comp 6 just to see what I'd get and how it compares to xpx's clams. However, I realize there is no point: he won't tell us exactly what he's doing, so there's no way to make a valid comparison. And if the numbers come out lower than his (which is almost certain, since I'm pretty sure those numbers are bogus) he'll just say it's because I don't know his "Uber Secrets [tm]".

 

Trying to reason with unreasonable people is a waste of time.

 

Anyway, Qeltar. Using the Snake Eye (Complex 1, 1:1, etc.) method for the first 25 floors, as you suggest, and your average "Prestige" experience is 1650, then you do Larges for the last ten floors, and gain 50k experience for each dungeon that takes on average an hour, then you'd be getting 38.8k experience per hour. Congratulations, your method gives you 4k more experience than if you had just done all the floors on large.

Sorry, not sure what you're trying to say here...

[AlexRose]

The funny thing is that part of me wants to try doing a full run of 1-35 solo on comp 6 just to see what I'd get and how it compares to xpx's clams.

 

Was that intentional?

 

 

 

Anyway, Qeltar. Using the Snake Eye (Complex 1, 1:1, etc.) method for the first 25 floors, as you suggest, and your average "Prestige" experience is 1650, then you do Larges for the last ten floors, and gain 50k experience for each dungeon that takes on average an hour, then you'd be getting 38.8k experience per hour. Congratulations, your method gives you 4k more experience than if you had just done all the floors on large.

Sorry, not sure what you're trying to say here...

 

I tried putting that all in one sentence and failed terribly. Let me try again.

 

For Floors 1-25, you use the Snake Eyes method. I assume your average "Prestige" experience is 1650, and that you complete each floor in 4 minutes.

 

Then, for 26-35, you do Large 5:5s. I assume that each Large would give you 50k experience on Floor 35, and each Large takes on average an hour (accounting for bad team, preparation time, etc.)

 

When you use that method, you gain 38.8k experience an hour on average. More specifically, you gain 445,483 experience over the course of 11 and two thirds hours.

 

Oh, and for the link to your dungeoneering guide, why do you have someone in above world robes?

[xpx]

I've never said there are any uber secrets to my soloing, just that there are tricks you learn during dungeoneering(like walking in a ferret room) that help you get a bit better xp, and that they add up to make a 5-15% differance. I've actually mentioned alot about the method, but since you people can't read any of the posts(like alex didn't understand that i said C6 soloing 2 days ago), it's easy to say i have mentioned no details. Also, i did not use a prom spear during those trials, but i'm not sure how much that changed my hourly experiance.

 

As for trying soloing out yourself, do remember that it takes keen experiance to perfect the experiance and you can't get the same xp i'm getting if you havn't solod atleast around 50 to 200k experiance. The very first thing you need to do is to learn how to do fast, consistent dungeons, and go from there to maximise the experiance you get from those dungeons.

[Viv]

mediums 2:1 take 15-20minutes with one person running keys other person getting +10 mod and then soloing boss when found.

 

they give around 7k exp on floor 10 and 9k exp on floor 18.

 

they arent food for exp/hr but are good if u really want to do them.

 

i got 18k exp on a 5:5 floor 24 med tho so i think if u can find a team that is efficient with meds it would be good for mid 20s lol.

[xpx]

mediums 2:1 take 15-20minutes with one person running keys other person getting +10 mod and then soloing boss when found.

 

they give around 7k exp on floor 10 and 9k exp on floor 18.

 

they arent food for exp/hr but are good if u really want to do them.

 

i got 18k exp on a 5:5 floor 24 med tho so i think if u can find a team that is efficient with meds it would be good for mid 20s lol.

Interesting figures but i don't know how accurate they can be with a minimal test set. On average, 2:1 should take the same time as 2 solo dungeons, around 17-19 minutes and 4:2(need 4 people to do large) should take about 4 times that, 35-38 minutes, which is already close to the 35-45 minutes the best teams are completing 5:5 dungeons. Also, while solo dungeons take me anywhere from 7-10 minutes to complete, 5:5 small dungeons take exactly the same time and offer around 40% boost(8k prestige vs 6k and +19% on reward screen), though in 5:3 you can manage 5-7 minute dungeons with the same xp as solo.

 

All in all, as a team player, it propably makes most sense to do 5:3 on lowest, 5:5 on average and 5:5 large on the higest floors, but which floors exactly, i have no idea(and doing 25-29 large is a pain to find a team). If you have a great team, any of these 3 choices trough all floors would give you more than 50k xp an hour, but large dungeons seem dominating because of not chaninging floors every 10 minutes. Also i do believe that with a 5:3 or 5:5 setting it is possible to do medium dungeons for the same xp as the others, but the fact is, most people aren't really used to those types of dungeons(also the dungeon is shapd badly compared to the others).

[Micromal]

That looks epic. I've come to enjoy Dungeoneering more and more as I play it, this might just be my favourite skill so far! I've never been too into power-levelling, and I am quite a DIY-kind of person, so equipping yourself and taking on challenges is quite perfect!

[Nifflin]

@qeltar

 

How can you call me subjective when you describe things as stupid, poor and what else. I understand all the frustration you can feel because of binding, but maybe it's just you? You like the idea of binding items but see it as something else as jagex do, and the same way with the boss drops. Maybe, just maybe, those things are like they are because...they are supposed to be like this, and whatever you think it could be is a child of your imagination. Nothings broken, it's just you who want more from something that isn't supposed to give you more.

 

I said average, you said good, there is a subtle differance, and you aren't good( <_< ) enough to make the differance. Teaming means depending on 4 other people, whom you have to find. Also, there is hardly any guarantee that they don't log out before the mime room. there is also no guarantee they won't be ignorant jerks who will ruin your day. The price of the extra experiance seems quite balanced in my opinion. If you are average and your teammates are average, there is no reason at all to team.

 

It's not just him. He is right and he proposes viable solutions to the problem. I am sure the developers did not intend for the majority of the items to not be used the majority of the time. It is a waste of their work. Binding needs to be fixed, Qeltar has posted suggestions which would benefit you and you are arguing over them. How would his suggestions to binding hurt your gameplay?

[I_am_Geed]

Lol they think herblore isnt being used enough? :rolleyes:

[Viv]

Lol they think herblore isnt being used enough? :rolleyes:

if ur maxed and u party with other high skill lvls ur gunna get some 100+ doors >.>