Dungeoneering: Beyond the Release

[AlexRose]

all the last 2-3 pages of "discussion" on this thread boil down to are that you either like solo activities or multiplayer activities.

 

all the arguments are subjectively based on whether one should be faster than the other, or if they should have the same efficiency at maximum.

 

i thought tip.it was capable of something more than that: like for instance quoting the jagex position on the issue, or their thoughts for how it will be after batch 2, when the skill is actually fully released.

 

No, we've been discussing that....

[qeltar]

I've already mentioned enough figures that i have myself tested. 30k an hour pure soloing, 40k an hour soloing 1-29, large dungeons 30-35, 35k an hour on an average team(5:5 small 1-24, 5:5 large 25-35), 50-55k an hour on a very good team(1-11 5:3 12-27 5:5 small 28-35 5:5 large, same team trourought the floors).

Okay, when you say "30k an hour pure soloing" what exactly do you mean? Doing all 35 floors the same way? Doing some in different ways? What complexity level and bound items?

 

Also, what strategy are you using? Meaning: kill every monster, kill all monsters except dead ends, kill only monsters in guardian rooms, etc?

 

tortilliachp: This is a discussion board. There's not much to discuss about what Jagex has said about this, which is virtually nothing.

[xSxqPowerx]

Hmm. Soloing is actually a bit better than I thought originally.

 

Now that I know what I'm doing, I can consistently do solos under 9 minutes per floor. (C6, killing necessary monsters and *some* other monsters either for food or for level mod). Still doesn't compare to a good team, but I've gotten a lot of absolutely awful teams recently. Got on a team that managed to not be able to finish a small 5:5.

[TheAncient]

What Dungeoneering really needs is a separate website (or even on RS webpage) dedicated to finding/establishing good dungeon teams.

 

One crucial thing is that there's a lack of accountability for slackers. It would be really nice to know someone's reputation before I invite them to my dungeon team.

 

I was thinking about making one when I realized I still don't have adequate coding skills to do it -_-

[qeltar]

Now that I know what I'm doing, I can consistently do solos under 9 minutes per floor.

Some floors, sure. But as an average? I don't see how. All you need is to get one "brick" of a level that takes 15 minutes and your average is shot, and those are quite common.

 

I just had a floor 30 that was going fine until I hit one of those stupid barrel puzzles, and then the skeletal horde "boss". That boss room takes 5 minutes to do and that's that -- you can't really speed it up. Soloing Stomp can also easily take 5 minutes, and a couple of other bosses are also very slow (icefiend, Sagittare, night gazer, etc.). One monolith room or maze puzzle or 10-statue combat triangle puzzle... all of these make a floor take 10-15 minutes or possibly even more.

 

This is why I find these claims of 6+ dungeons per hour very suspect. They just don't jive with my own timed tests, when you actually include the full spectrum of possible outcomes and not just the best case.

[Dragonlordjl]

What Dungeoneering really needs is a separate website (or even on RS webpage) dedicated to finding/establishing good dungeon teams.

 

One crucial thing is that there's a lack of accountability for slackers. It would be really nice to know someone's reputation before I invite them to my dungeon team.

 

I was thinking about making one when I realized I still don't have adequate coding skills to do it -_-

This is a big thing. Each person has considerably more power than the team... You can vote to kick out someone who is [bleep]ing around, but in the end you're just hurting yourselves because 5:5 dungeons are very unforgiving if you attempt to do them with 4 people.

[Viv]

It would be great if we could find somebody to team with while already in the dungeon...if someone leaves this would be useful especcially on 5:5 smalls where people leave all the time its a pain to recruit people again....Maybe people can post somewhere what floors they need and then we could invite them while inside the dungeon...This would also allow for people to accually get kicked from a team instead of having to put up with them.

 

A reputation thing would be cool but kinda cruel. You could flag someone as a good player or a leecher or something....

 

About soloing thiers alot of variance you can get lucky and not have many puzzles and not have any 100+ doors and have easy boss or u can get a solo w/ 2 mazes and a barrel room.....

 

idk if you shuld just skip 100+ doors in solo if dont have a herb might be the thing to do...overall.

 

I prefer teaming so avoid solo as much as possible..

 

 

also 90 minute 5:5 larges are not as uncommon as you guys think nowdays in 117 even with other maxed players if we arent rushing the dungeon it usually takes 75-90 mins......

 

30-45 minute dungeons are possible but you need to have an expert keyholder and a group that is willing to do what the leader says.

[xpx]

I've already mentioned enough figures that i have myself tested. 30k an hour pure soloing, 40k an hour soloing 1-29, large dungeons 30-35, 35k an hour on an average team(5:5 small 1-24, 5:5 large 25-35), 50-55k an hour on a very good team(1-11 5:3 12-27 5:5 small 28-35 5:5 large, same team trourought the floors).

Okay, when you say "30k an hour pure soloing" what exactly do you mean? Doing all 35 floors the same way? Doing some in different ways? What complexity level and bound items?

 

Also, what strategy are you using? Meaning: kill every monster, kill all monsters except dead ends, kill only monsters in guardian rooms, etc?

 

tortilliachp: This is a discussion board. There's not much to discuss about what Jagex has said about this, which is virtually nothing.

The figures are timed by myself doing almost all differant floors(34 differant floors) in 2 patches alone, 2 items bound, C6. I can't reveal all my secrets that concern dungeon efficency and getting a nice level mod even though rushing, you'll just have to learn for yourself, i'm almost certain that there are people who can solo even faster than i can.

 

As far as i can tell, you have quite a bit still to learn about soloing and how to do it fast.

[WeatherMatt]

I'm intrigued most by the new ring of kinship changes and being able to specialize in classes, essentially. For whatever reason, the thought of Dungeoneering becoming more like a D&D like experience within RS sounds really fun if executed well.

 

The use of dungeoneering outside of Daemonheim is also exciting - it's needed more of a slayer/agility like use that expands the current world to those that can access it, rather than being self-contained to its own little dungeon.

 

Rewards - meh. Maybe if one or two are really exciting I might care.

 

Soloing - considering they said nothing about the xp rate of soloers vs. 5:5ers, it seems that on the surface they intend to leave xp rates the same, encouraging team play. Oh well. I guess socially inept Matt has to find teams to level faster now.

[A0z9]

Yeah I'm looking forward too.

[qeltar]

I can't reveal all my secrets that concern dungeon efficency and getting a nice level mod even though rushing, you'll just have to learn for yourself, i'm almost certain that there are people who can solo even faster than i can.

Oh, give me a break! Here I am trying to give you the benefit of the doubt with respect to your claims and politely asking for details so I can verify your numbers, and you give me this crap?

 

I just spent a month writing a 200 page guide to Dungeoneering where I spilled every tip and trick I had learned and seen others use, but your "secrets" are so wonderful that you can't share them even in general form? Selfish.

 

 

As far as i can tell, you have quite a bit still to learn about soloing and how to do it fast.

As far as *I* can tell, you are full of spit. You claim XP rates that make no sense and refuse to specify how you got them with any level of detail -- pretty clear what that actually means.

[D Jay99]

It seems like every time someone claims to be able to do something fast you declare it 'impossible' because your own site and tests etc show it's slower. Maybe you're just not that fast qeltar.

 

That being said, I did 7 floors in 1 hour 3 minutes once (was 10-16 or something), prom spear/plate bound and only killing whatever was neccesary to kill. So I don't think xpx's figures are that impossible. No idea how much xp that was though, I should do a full 1-35 run some time.

[qeltar]

It seems like every time someone claims to be able to do something fast you declare it 'impossible' because your own site and tests etc show it's slower. Maybe you're just not that fast qeltar.

Actually, I fully accept that there are players faster than I am.

 

But when someone is making claims about speed that go well beyond what most people can do, and refuses to even specify how they did it, I find that dubious.

 

Most players are not accurate in how they measure things, and they tend to take small samples, extrapolate them, and then make grand announcements that are bogus.

 

You are now basically saying you rushed 7 floors and got good figures with them. Great! Entirely possible. I said that, didn't I? But that's very different from what he is claiming, which is a consistent speed far above what anyone I have ever seen actually measure, *plus* XP rates more comparable to fully completing floors than rushing them.

 

The details matter. So do the floors. So does luck.

 

I've actually timed 6-floor runs (rushing on complexity 1) and done them in a little over 20 minutes, then did a different 6 floors and had it take over *30* minutes.

[o_knames]

I think a lot of this discussion will be rendered moot by the Batch 2 release.

 

Speaking of which, the fact that they indicated using rings to implement the specialty classes and the glaring absence of capes and necklaces suggests to me that they may have something in store for those item slots.

[CheapMark]

For me, the most interesting part will be what will be available to us free players....

I love the skill but it is deathly repetitive and the time chunks it takes to beat a dungeon can be a little long, as well as if I accidentally crash and log out whilst solo-ing, I've lost serious play time....

But great skill none-the-less, I'm saving up for a coal bag :) epic guild mining ftw

[tortilliachp]

all the last 2-3 pages of "discussion" on this thread boil down to are that you either like solo activities or multiplayer activities.

 

all the arguments are subjectively based on whether one should be faster than the other, or if they should have the same efficiency at maximum.

 

i thought tip.it was capable of something more than that: like for instance quoting the jagex position on the issue, or their thoughts for how it will be after batch 2, when the skill is actually fully released.

 

No, we've been discussing that....

 

 

tortilliachp: This is a discussion board. There's not much to discuss about what Jagex has said about this, which is virtually nothing

 

If Jagex haven't said much about the topic, maybe all your "discussion" is actually speculation?

 

at least my internal definition of discussion is "consideration by argument"

 

the argument being subjective ("that's what I think " or " I want it that way" ) is therefore weak. An emotive consideration of a topic isn't argued, just a statement of opinion: there is nothing to discuss.

 

If you did employ Jagex' thoughts, you're discussing the likely, the plausible future; you're providing an argument, not just an opinion (" i wish dungeoneering were ..." notice the subjunctive: a mode where the verb is used for subjective, doubtful, unlikely or hypothetical statements only).

 

how fruitful is iterating an opinion without reasonable justification? when jagex is the only source of our knowledge, citing them as a source is imperative (another grammatical mode, not the subjunctive) if you're providing an actual contribution to the discussion, in form of an argument.

 

 

Qeltar: Here are my steps for the most efficient soloing guide, introductory part: "what to do when entering a solo dungeon":

 

1) you enter the dungeon.

2) you pick up everything (other than the junkiest food depending on amount of food)

3) you sell everything you don't need

4) you buy 50 essence that you don't make into runes (wait until you run past your first altar to do that to save time), antipoison if in a jungle room.

5) you buy the best set of tools you can get, and a bowstring, 50 bait is fast, in case you need to fish food for the boss

6) you pick up the key on the floor if there is one

7) you wield your bound items, and armour parts kept "useful things" from the spawn, while running to the first door.

8) you open the first door, and immediately go through it ( if done right, there should be no delay).

 

this should not take more than 40-50 seconds depending on how many items you pick up. I think you can figure out the rest of the pace, and many of the strategies.

[bedman]

I've already mentioned enough figures that i have myself tested. 30k an hour pure soloing, 40k an hour soloing 1-29, large dungeons 30-35, 35k an hour on an average team(5:5 small 1-24, 5:5 large 25-35), 50-55k an hour on a very good team(1-11 5:3 12-27 5:5 small 28-35 5:5 large, same team trourought the floors).

Okay, when you say "30k an hour pure soloing" what exactly do you mean? Doing all 35 floors the same way? Doing some in different ways? What complexity level and bound items?

 

Also, what strategy are you using? Meaning: kill every monster, kill all monsters except dead ends, kill only monsters in guardian rooms, etc?

 

tortilliachp: This is a discussion board. There's not much to discuss about what Jagex has said about this, which is virtually nothing.

The figures are timed by myself doing almost all differant floors(34 differant floors) in 2 patches alone, 2 items bound, C6. I can't reveal all my secrets that concern dungeon efficency and getting a nice level mod even though rushing, you'll just have to learn for yourself, i'm almost certain that there are people who can solo even faster than i can.

 

As far as i can tell, you have quite a bit still to learn about soloing and how to do it fast.

"I can't reveal all my secrets".

 

That's pretty arrogant :(

[Sly_Wizard]

I want to know what levels the people getting 30K - 40K solo'ing an hour are, as I'd be willing to bet that the majority of people getting that much an hour are level 70'ish or higher, where your base prestige, and as a result the amount of experience you get per floor, is higher. Right now, I'm level 53. If I were to reset my prestige, I'd at least 2K experience per dungeon (capping out at around 3.3K experience per floor at the end of a prestige run), assuming I went through every room on a floor. Now, assuming it takes me ten minutes to do a floor, in an hour, I'd get 12K - 18K or so experience, depending. Nowhere close to this mythical 30K - 40K an hour, and that's assuming I do every floor in ten minutes (Which is unrealistic). So, yeah. Someone explain this to me.

 

And how are people taking five minutes to kill a boss? Errr, it takes me about a minute on average. Two if I'm unlucky.

[AlexRose]

I want to know what levels the people getting 30K - 40K solo'ing an hour are, as I'd be willing to bet that the majority of people getting that much an hour are level 70'ish or higher, where your base prestige, and as a result the amount of experience you get per floor, is higher. Right now, I'm level 53. If I were to reset my prestige, I'd at least 2K experience per dungeon (capping out at around 3.3K experience per floor at the end of a prestige run), assuming I went through every room on a floor. Now, assuming it takes me ten minutes to do a floor, in an hour, I'd get 12K - 18K or so experience, depending. Nowhere close to this mythical 30K - 40K an hour, and that's assuming I do every floor in ten minutes (Which is unrealistic). So, yeah. Someone explain this to me.

 

And how are people taking five minutes to kill a boss? Errr, it takes me about a minute on average. Two if I'm unlucky.

 

 

Your Prestige goes up quite a bit with even just a few more floors complete. I think someone said it doubles every 6 or something levels. It'll be signficantly higher once your Prestige maxes out.

 

 

Some bosses don't take too much time. but the Skeleton Horde, Stomp, and Planefreezer can all completely ruin your time if they're feeling nasty (I hate Planefreezer with a burning passion). Lexius and Nightgazer can also take a while. I haven't actually timed them myself, but I wouldn't be surprised if the former bosses took more than two minutes.

[AlexRose]

 

 

Its not arrogant. He cant reveal what he doesnt have.

 

Yes im calling him a liar

 

I wouldn't go that far. If he truly does have some secret that considerably boosts his experience rates, then by all means does he have the right not to disclose it. But in this particular discussion, where his "secret" would prove his point or not, he can't expect us to take his word that these secrets exist. He needs to present the evidence, otherwise it's an invalid point.

 

Off topic from even the semi-off topic discussion, the next time someone does their second to last floor, could you divide the "Average" experience you got from your "Prestige" experience, and relay me that number? I would truly appreciate it.

[xpx]

I've already mentioned enough figures that i have myself tested. 30k an hour pure soloing, 40k an hour soloing 1-29, large dungeons 30-35, 35k an hour on an average team(5:5 small 1-24, 5:5 large 25-35), 50-55k an hour on a very good team(1-11 5:3 12-27 5:5 small 28-35 5:5 large, same team trourought the floors).

Okay, when you say "30k an hour pure soloing" what exactly do you mean? Doing all 35 floors the same way? Doing some in different ways? What complexity level and bound items?

 

Also, what strategy are you using? Meaning: kill every monster, kill all monsters except dead ends, kill only monsters in guardian rooms, etc?

 

tortilliachp: This is a discussion board. There's not much to discuss about what Jagex has said about this, which is virtually nothing.

The figures are timed by myself doing almost all differant floors(34 differant floors) in 2 patches alone, 2 items bound, C6. I can't reveal all my secrets that concern dungeon efficency and getting a nice level mod even though rushing, you'll just have to learn for yourself, i'm almost certain that there are people who can solo even faster than i can.

 

As far as i can tell, you have quite a bit still to learn about soloing and how to do it fast.

"I can't reveal all my secrets".

 

That's pretty arrogant :(

I'm not a walking guide, if you want to learn something, go to school.

 

You can call me a liar how many times you want, but when i say i can do dungeons in an average time of 8 minutes 50 seconds and others have reported times anywhere from 8 to 10 minutes(people who know what they are doing, that is) there is hardly anything to lie about, unlesss i paid the other guys, ofcource.

 

Also, yes, i have learned som methods to maximize soloing xp, while not giving a significant xp boost, the extra 2-4k an hour can make all the differance. You'll just have to solo yourself and get to know what's best for you. Not everything has to be delivered on a silver platter.

[AlexRose]

 

I'm not a walking guide, if you want to learn something, go to school.

 

You can call me a liar how many times you want, but when i say i can do dungeons in an average time of 8 minutes 50 seconds and others have reported times anywhere from 8 to 10 minutes(people who know what they are doing, that is) there is hardly anything to lie about, unlesss i paid the other guys, ofcource.

 

Also, yes, i have learned som methods to maximize soloing xp, while not giving a significant xp boost, the extra 2-4k an hour can make all the differance. You'll just have to solo yourself and get to know what's best for you. Not everything has to be delivered on a silver platter.

 

When the entire validity of your argument rests on having conclusive and repeatable trails of your claims, and not the hearsay you've so far provided, I think it would be prudent to give us the information required so we can verify your rates and move on with this discussion, which has gotten considerably off track. If we can't verify your claims, then we have to assume that your results are unreliable and that you're possibly lieing to us.

 

 

Irrelvant fact: Doing all the Floors on large, assuming you'd normally get 50k experience on a Floor 35 large dungeon and you averaged an hour a dungeon, gets you 34.8k experience an hour. Make of that what you will.

[xpx]

 

I'm not a walking guide, if you want to learn something, go to school.

 

You can call me a liar how many times you want, but when i say i can do dungeons in an average time of 8 minutes 50 seconds and others have reported times anywhere from 8 to 10 minutes(people who know what they are doing, that is) there is hardly anything to lie about, unlesss i paid the other guys, ofcource.

 

Also, yes, i have learned som methods to maximize soloing xp, while not giving a significant xp boost, the extra 2-4k an hour can make all the differance. You'll just have to solo yourself and get to know what's best for you. Not everything has to be delivered on a silver platter.

 

When the entire validity of your argument rests on having conclusive and repeatable trails of your claims, and not the hearsay you've so far provided, I think it would be prudent to give us the information required so we can verify your rates and move on with this discussion, which has gotten considerably off track. If we can't verify your claims, then we have to assume that your results are unreliable and that you're possibly lieing to us.

As i already said, my times doing dungeons aren't anything spectacular compared to the others, so the experiance i'm getting is atleast to a high degree normal. Also, there are only so many things you can do differantly in a dungeon- maybe i use a differant weapon, maybe i use many weapons or kill monsters in a differant fashion, but the bottom line is, those things work for me, and there is no guarantee that i'm doing anything in the most efficent fashion or that anyone else isn't getting even better xp out of soloing, it's just a question of trial and error right now.

[AlexRose]

 

I'm not a walking guide, if you want to learn something, go to school.

 

You can call me a liar how many times you want, but when i say i can do dungeons in an average time of 8 minutes 50 seconds and others have reported times anywhere from 8 to 10 minutes(people who know what they are doing, that is) there is hardly anything to lie about, unlesss i paid the other guys, ofcource.

 

Also, yes, i have learned som methods to maximize soloing xp, while not giving a significant xp boost, the extra 2-4k an hour can make all the differance. You'll just have to solo yourself and get to know what's best for you. Not everything has to be delivered on a silver platter.

 

When the entire validity of your argument rests on having conclusive and repeatable trails of your claims, and not the hearsay you've so far provided, I think it would be prudent to give us the information required so we can verify your rates and move on with this discussion, which has gotten considerably off track. If we can't verify your claims, then we have to assume that your results are unreliable and that you're possibly lieing to us.

As i already said, my times doing dungeons aren't anything spectacular compared to the others, so the experiance i'm getting is atleast to a high degree normal. Also, there are only so many things you can do differantly in a dungeon- maybe i use a differant weapon, maybe i use many weapons or kill monsters in a differant fashion, but the bottom line is, those things work for me, and there is no guarantee that i'm doing anything in the most efficent fashion or that anyone else isn't getting even better xp out of soloing, it's just a question of trial and error right now.

 

Still hearsay. I'm not calling you a liar, but until you provide actual, testable, and repeatable evidence, then we have to assume you're an unreliable source, regardless of whatever other sources you claim to be reliable. I'm sorry, but that's just the way it is.

 

 

And more irrelvant facts! Assuming you use Qeltar's "Snake-Eyed Method" (which you did not invent, by the way. At best, you get the name.) and averaged 4 minutes a floor, then do Floor 35, gaining 50k experience in an hour, you get 16.4k an hour. Interesting, right?

[xpx]

 

I'm not a walking guide, if you want to learn something, go to school.

 

You can call me a liar how many times you want, but when i say i can do dungeons in an average time of 8 minutes 50 seconds and others have reported times anywhere from 8 to 10 minutes(people who know what they are doing, that is) there is hardly anything to lie about, unlesss i paid the other guys, ofcource.

 

Also, yes, i have learned som methods to maximize soloing xp, while not giving a significant xp boost, the extra 2-4k an hour can make all the differance. You'll just have to solo yourself and get to know what's best for you. Not everything has to be delivered on a silver platter.

 

When the entire validity of your argument rests on having conclusive and repeatable trails of your claims, and not the hearsay you've so far provided, I think it would be prudent to give us the information required so we can verify your rates and move on with this discussion, which has gotten considerably off track. If we can't verify your claims, then we have to assume that your results are unreliable and that you're possibly lieing to us.

As i already said, my times doing dungeons aren't anything spectacular compared to the others, so the experiance i'm getting is atleast to a high degree normal. Also, there are only so many things you can do differantly in a dungeon- maybe i use a differant weapon, maybe i use many weapons or kill monsters in a differant fashion, but the bottom line is, those things work for me, and there is no guarantee that i'm doing anything in the most efficent fashion or that anyone else isn't getting even better xp out of soloing, it's just a question of trial and error right now.

 

Still hearsay. I'm not calling you a liar, but until you provide actual, testable, and repeatable evidence, then we have to assume you're an unreliable source, regardless of whatever other sources you claim to be reliable. I'm sorry, but that's just the way it is.

 

 

And more irrelvant facts! Assuming you use Qeltar's "Snake-Eyed Method" (which you did not invent, by the way. At best, you get the name.) and averaged 4 minutes a floor, then do Floor 35, gaining 50k experience in an hour, you get 16.4k an hour. Interesting, right?

Alex, i've yet to see anyone actually do any extencive testing on solo anyway, with everyone claiming the xp being so bad. As noone has tested it and i'm the only one providing any figures on experiance at all, why would i want to tell anyone what to do? It'd be in my best intrest if someone else did some testing on the xp aswell, but in the absense of trust and trying something instead of just spitting words out of your mouth, I can rest assured that soloing still is a viable option if i ever get frustrated teaming(atleast for me it is, because i know the word average).