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8 Things Gay People Can't Do


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@Myweponsg00d

 

But then your argument really is the same as his, there is no reason.

 

I'm saying theres no reason to be against homosexuality, therefore people should be free to do what they want.

 

I'm not saying that gayness is good or favorable and that heteros should consider going gay. Its just something that people should be able to decide for themselves.

 

If I was trying to say that homosexuality is right for everybody then you might have a point.

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@Myweponsg00d

 

But then your argument really is the same as his, there is no reason.

 

I'm saying theres no reason to be against homosexuality, therefore people should be free to do what they want.

 

I'm not saying that gayness is good or favorable and that heteros should consider going gay. Its just something that people should be able to decide for themselves.

 

If I was trying to say that homosexuality is right for everybody then you might have a point.

You were saying how the other guy had no reason for it to be banned except for his opinion. What I'm pointing out is that you're saying there is no reason for it not to be banned. So you pretty much have the same arguments, just used on either side of the argument.

 

Believe it or not, I'm not trying to be a jerk here.

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@Myweponsg00d

 

But then your argument really is the same as his, there is no reason.

 

I'm saying theres no reason to be against homosexuality, therefore people should be free to do what they want.

 

I'm not saying that gayness is good or favorable and that heteros should consider going gay. Its just something that people should be able to decide for themselves.

 

If I was trying to say that homosexuality is right for everybody then you might have a point.

You were saying how the other guy had no reason for it to be banned except for his opinion. What I'm pointing out is that you're saying there is no reason for it not to be banned. So you pretty much have the same arguments, just used on either side of the argument.

 

Believe it or not, I'm not trying to be a jerk here.

 

My opinion isnt that people should be gay. Its that gayness is a personal choice and we have no reason to stop it

 

His opinion is that gayness is something that is wrong for the human race and there is no logical reason to feel that way.

 

You see us as having two OPPOSITE views, but my view is not opposite to his. He is trying to say homosexuality is incorrect. I AM NOT TRYING TO SAY IT IS CORRECT. If I had an opposite opinion to his, I would be trying to prove that heterosexuality is wrong and homosexuality is what everyone should do.

 

My argument is that there is no reason that someone elses homosexuality is a good or bad thing for the society, and therefore should be for them to decide.

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Also still playing devil's advocate, and kinda seriously, how do we know its not a choice? I'm not gay so i don't know. The only people who would know are gays who could lie about it. So who is to say it isn't a choice?

 

Also why is it so ridiculous, they are both sexual attractions. i could compare heteros to pedophiles too as they are both sexual attractions. i don't think you can really argue that. But like I said who is anyone to judge what real love is and who can love who or what.

 

I know its not a choice for two reasons:

1) Animals have been observed doing it, implying that it's instinctual at some level

2) I never chose to be straight, I never chose to have certain fetishes, I can't imagine why it would be different for gays.

And even if it was a choice (which its not) we're still told to respect people and their lifestyles.

 

Its ridiculous because you're essentially comparing rape to consensual sex. Pedophilia involves someone unable to give informed consent. Homosexuality is between two fully consenting, fully knowledgeable, adults.

 

Ignoring all slippery slope fallacies, ask yourself; who does it hurt?

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Also still playing devil's advocate, and kinda seriously, how do we know its not a choice? I'm not gay so i don't know. The only people who would know are gays who could lie about it. So who is to say it isn't a choice?

 

Also why is it so ridiculous, they are both sexual attractions. i could compare heteros to pedophiles too as they are both sexual attractions. i don't think you can really argue that. But like I said who is anyone to judge what real love is and who can love who or what.

 

I know its not a choice for two reasons:

1) Animals have been observed doing it, implying that it's instinctual at some level

2) I never chose to be straight, I never chose to have certain fetishes, I can't imagine why it would be different for gays.

And even if it was a choice (which its not) we're still told to respect people and their lifestyles.

 

Its ridiculous because you're essentially comparing rape to consensual sex. Pedophilia involves someone unable to give informed consent. Homosexuality is between two fully consenting, fully knowledgeable, adults.

Pedophilia doesn't have to be rape. It generally is but it doesn't have to be. You say informed consent, you aren't taught about sex until you are at a certain age, but it doesn't have to be that way.(Take note I am 100% against pedophilia I'm just pointing some stuff out here.) 1) True, but how do we know animals aren't capable of making sexuality choices 2) You never chose to be straight because or the continuation of the human species that's how nature works. 3) I'm sorry I have to keep bringing this up, but it still stands. So i should respect people who have sex with animals and children?

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God dammit Seany, STOP SHARING MY MIND

" I believe in something greater than myself. A better world. A world without sin. I'm not going to live there. There's no place for me there... I'm a monster.What I do is evil. I have no illusions about it, but it must be done."

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Pedophilia doesn't have to be rape. It generally is but it doesn't have to be. You say informed consent, you aren't taught about sex until you are at a certain age, but it doesn't have to be that way.(Take note I am 100% against pedophilia I'm just pointing some stuff out here.) 1) True, but how do we know animals aren't capable of making sexuality choices 2) You never chose to be straight because or the continuation of the human species that's how nature works. 3) I'm sorry I have to keep bringing this up, but it still stands. So i should respect people who have sex with animals and children?

 

Children are unable to give informed consent. There is influence from adults constantly. An adult can order a child to do something and they are expected to do it. Homosexuality is nothing like that and Its revolting that you even consider them similar.

 

Animals don't make informed choices about anything. Only great apes and dolphins have been observed planning anything.

 

I never chose to be straight because one day I woke up and thought "I like boobies". I didn't think "I NEED TO CONTINUE THE SPECIES BY HAVING SEX WITH A FEMALE". Its the same for gays. They just like the same sex instead of the opposite one.

 

And your last point is a slippery slope fallacy (again) that I've already explained.

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Pedophilia doesn't have to be rape. It generally is but it doesn't have to be. You say informed consent, you aren't taught about sex until you are at a certain age, but it doesn't have to be that way.(Take note I am 100% against pedophilia I'm just pointing some stuff out here.) 1) True, but how do we know animals aren't capable of making sexuality choices 2) You never chose to be straight because or the continuation of the human species that's how nature works. 3) I'm sorry I have to keep bringing this up, but it still stands. So i should respect people who have sex with animals and children?

 

Children are unable to give informed consent. There is influence from adults constantly. An adult can order a child to do something and they are expected to do it. Homosexuality is nothing like that and Its revolting that you even consider them similar.

 

Animals don't make informed choices about anything. Only great apes and dolphins have been observed planning anything.

 

I never chose to be straight because one day I woke up and thought "I like boobies". I didn't think "I NEED TO CONTINUE THE SPECIES BY HAVING SEX WITH A FEMALE". Its the same for gays. They just like the same sex instead of the opposite one.

 

And your last point is a slippery slope fallacy (again) that I've already explained.

 

It can be exactly the same with adults, once you hit 18 you don't have some epiphany where no one has influence over you anymore, or you don't make any bad choices.

 

Your second point ok.

 

Your third point just proves mine... that proves it wasn't a choice, its implanted in you, its an instinct. If you are straight then how do you know its the same for gays? Because they say it is? Anyone can lie about anything.

 

The last point is a slippery slope but to be honest is it really without merit? 50 years ago it would have been ridiculous to think they'd ever legalize gay marriage...

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God dammit Seany, STOP SHARING MY MIND

" I believe in something greater than myself. A better world. A world without sin. I'm not going to live there. There's no place for me there... I'm a monster.What I do is evil. I have no illusions about it, but it must be done."

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Your third point just proves mine... that proves it wasn't a choice, its implanted in you, its an instinct. If you are straight then how do you know its the same for gays? Because they say it is? Anyone can lie about anything.

 

This doesn't make any sense... Are you choosing not to be gay?

 

The last point is a slippery slope but to be honest is it really without merit? 50 years ago it would have been ridiculous to think they'd ever legalize gay marriage...

 

And 10,000 years ago people started to farm plants. Whats next, we breed humans and farm them? Therefore we shouldnt farm plants.

 

No slippery slope is a valid argument.

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Your third point just proves mine... that proves it wasn't a choice, its implanted in you, its an instinct. If you are straight then how do you know its the same for gays? Because they say it is? Anyone can lie about anything.

 

This doesn't make any sense... Are you choosing not to be gay?

I'm saying his point proves my point that you don't choose to be straight. And if being gay is a choice then i guess technically yes.

 

edit @ your edit: We kinda can/do just not on a massive scale.

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God dammit Seany, STOP SHARING MY MIND

" I believe in something greater than myself. A better world. A world without sin. I'm not going to live there. There's no place for me there... I'm a monster.What I do is evil. I have no illusions about it, but it must be done."

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You were claiming my sexuality was a choice, I said it wasn't, that proves your point? No, that's just you being really self centered in your observation. Just because someone thinks differently than you, doesn't mean they're making a conscious decision to go against you.

 

More anecdotal crap incoming: I don't want to have sex with a man. I don't. Not even for money or positive attention (which are supposedly the reasons people go gay). My sexuality was hard-coded into me. It HAS to be the same for gays since it is blatantly impossible to go against what you are actually attracted to. I know women can theoretically fake it, but I cannot "get it up" for dudes. Anyone that can is clearly attracted to them and not lying for profit or whatever.

 

And if it was a choice (which its not) why would anyone make it? Bigots will just hate you forever and you gain nothing.

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Your third point just proves mine... that proves it wasn't a choice, its implanted in you, its an instinct. If you are straight then how do you know its the same for gays? Because they say it is? Anyone can lie about anything.

 

This doesn't make any sense... Are you choosing not to be gay?

I'm saying his point proves my point that you don't choose to be straight. And if being gay is a choice then i guess technically yes.

 

So every time you look at another man you think "Am I going to choose to be turned on by his appearance?"

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You were claiming my sexuality was a choice, I said it wasn't, that proves your point? No, that's just you being really self centered in your observation. Just because someone thinks differently than you, doesn't mean they're making a conscious decision to go against you.

 

More anecdotal crap incoming: I don't want to have sex with a man. I don't. Not even for money or positive attention (which are supposedly the reasons people go gay). My sexuality was hard-coded into me. It HAS to be the same for gays since it is blatantly impossible to go against what you are actually attracted to. I know women can theoretically fake it, but I cannot "get it up" for dudes. Anyone that can is clearly attracted to them and not lying for profit or whatever.

 

And if it was a choice (which its not) why would anyone make it? Bigots will just hate you forever and you gain nothing.

i wasn't claiming your sexuality was a choice.

 

You say women can theoretically fake it, why is it different for men then?

 

Why someone would ever choose it is beyond me, but if i go into other crazy things that people have chosen for whatever reason,you'll flip out on me for comparing that to this anyway.

 

 

@myweponsg00d

 

No because subconsciously I chose/choose not to.

 

 

i realize you will probably think I'm trying to get out of this argument the easy way, but I have to get ready for my lacrosse camp. Sorry.

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God dammit Seany, STOP SHARING MY MIND

" I believe in something greater than myself. A better world. A world without sin. I'm not going to live there. There's no place for me there... I'm a monster.What I do is evil. I have no illusions about it, but it must be done."

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Sorry I think you slightly misunderstood my point. I mean you class yourself as bisexual but still be more straight than gay or gay than straight. Degrees of attraction are therefore highly relevant because it shows it's not a clear cut thing.

 

Indeed, but at that point you've made a choice. If you're only "slightly" attracted to the same sex you may biologically qualify as a bisexual but you may decide to live life as a heterosexual, or vice versa.

 

I disagree. But whatever, let's not argue over this- What about gays? No bi-sexuals, gays. Those that can't choose. Should they simply ignore it?

 

I think the overall point I'm trying to make there is that homosexual attraction, for the most part, is built from nurture rather than nature. Of course there will be exceptions, there always are. But looking at the large majority it seems to be the case.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVwjCppq82c&feature=player_embedded

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Even though I think we both know homosexuality isn't a choice, for the sake of fun lets say it is. Religion is also a choice, but no one says Christians can't donate blood or join the army.

Also still playing devil's advocate, and kinda seriously, how do we know its not a choice? I'm not gay so i don't know. The only people who would know are gays who could lie about it. So who is to say it isn't a choice?

 

Well, I doubt anyone is dumb enough to choose it, considering the inequality, the inability to reproduce with ease, and the blatant hatred around the world. There's even less of a reason to choose it when you're religous, etc, and yet there are religous gays that have gone "against' what they believe in.

 

Other than that, you said you're not gay. Go ahead and try to become attracted to men. You will not succeed, because you can't choose these things, pretty much.

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Sorry I think you slightly misunderstood my point. I mean you class yourself as bisexual but still be more straight than gay or gay than straight. Degrees of attraction are therefore highly relevant because it shows it's not a clear cut thing.

 

Indeed, but at that point you've made a choice. If you're only "slightly" attracted to the same sex you may biologically qualify as a bisexual but you may decide to live life as a heterosexual, or vice versa.

 

I disagree. But whatever, let's not argue over this- What about gays? No bi-sexuals, gays. Those that can't choose. Should they simply ignore it?

 

I think the overall point I'm trying to make there is that homosexual attraction, for the most part, is built from nurture rather than nature. Of course there will be exceptions, there always are. But looking at the large majority it seems to be the case.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVwjCppq82c&feature=player_embedded

 

I'd be curious to see the results of that test performed on a larger scale - I can tell right away that at least one of the test (the synonym one) would be heavily affected by education.

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I'd be curious to see the results of that test performed on a larger scale - I can tell right away that at least one of the test (the synonym one) would be heavily affected by education.

 

You give no credit to psychologists by saying this. The test is designed to evaluate his brain's system of processing. Its not like they have a big list of right/wrong answers and 80% means man, 90% means woman. Psychological evaluation is more complicated than that.

 

Its like you hearing of something that a particle physicist is working on and being like "Well what if the wind came and blew the electrons around?!?!?!" Just an unwarranted jab at the legitimacy of the study.

 

Also even if it varied as simply as you are suggesting, why would that matter? "Men" would still be expected to do better than "women" on the spacial evaluation, regardless of their level of education. All they are concerned about is how his aptitude in certain areas compares to his aptitude in other areas. So how does education play a role in this?

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I'd be curious to see the results of that test performed on a larger scale - I can tell right away that at least one of the test (the synonym one) would be heavily affected by education.

 

You give no credit to psychologists by saying this. The test is designed to evaluate his brain's system of processing. Its not like they have a big list of right/wrong answers and 80% means man, 90% means woman. Psychological evaluation is more complicated than that.

 

Its like you hearing of something that a particle physicist is working on and being like "Well what if the wind came and blew the electrons around?!?!?!" Just an unwarranted jab at the legitimacy of the study.

 

Also even if it varied as simply as you are suggesting, why would that matter? "Men" would still be expected to do better than "women" on the spacial evaluation, regardless of their level of education. All they are concerned about is how his aptitude in certain areas compares to his aptitude in other areas. So how does education play a role in this?

A test like a synonym test is directly related to knowledge of vocabulary, hence education.

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I'd be curious to see the results of that test performed on a larger scale - I can tell right away that at least one of the test (the synonym one) would be heavily affected by education.

 

You give no credit to psychologists by saying this. The test is designed to evaluate his brain's system of processing. Its not like they have a big list of right/wrong answers and 80% means man, 90% means woman. Psychological evaluation is more complicated than that.

 

Its like you hearing of something that a particle physicist is working on and being like "Well what if the wind came and blew the electrons around?!?!?!" Just an unwarranted jab at the legitimacy of the study.

 

Also even if it varied as simply as you are suggesting, why would that matter? "Men" would still be expected to do better than "women" on the spacial evaluation, regardless of their level of education. All they are concerned about is how his aptitude in certain areas compares to his aptitude in other areas. So how does education play a role in this?

A test like a synonym test is directly related to knowledge of vocabulary, hence education.

 

And what was the rest of the test? Mind reading? Psychic ability? Ability to run long distances?

 

All of the criteria were intellectual evaluation and his absolute score would probably have something to do with education.

 

It isnt about how high he scored on language aptitude, its about how high that score was in relation to other things. So how does education have anything to do with how good he is at one subject in relation to another?

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I'd be curious to see the results of that test performed on a larger scale - I can tell right away that at least one of the test (the synonym one) would be heavily affected by education.

 

You give no credit to psychologists by saying this. The test is designed to evaluate his brain's system of processing. Its not like they have a big list of right/wrong answers and 80% means man, 90% means woman. Psychological evaluation is more complicated than that.

 

Its like you hearing of something that a particle physicist is working on and being like "Well what if the wind came and blew the electrons around?!?!?!" Just an unwarranted jab at the legitimacy of the study.

 

Also even if it varied as simply as you are suggesting, why would that matter? "Men" would still be expected to do better than "women" on the spacial evaluation, regardless of their level of education. All they are concerned about is how his aptitude in certain areas compares to his aptitude in other areas. So how does education play a role in this?

A test like a synonym test is directly related to knowledge of vocabulary, hence education.

 

And what was the rest of the test? Mind reading? Psychic ability? Ability to run long distances?

 

All of the criteria were intellectual evaluation and his absolute score would probably have something to do with education.

 

It isnt about how high he scored on language aptitude, its about how high that score was in relation to other things. So how does education have anything to do with how good he is at one subject in relation to another?

 

All I'm saying is that in any test there are extenuating factors. Do you honestly think that every woman has exactly the same spatial capabilities regardless of experience and education?

 

I'm not saying the test was inherently flawed - I'm saying there's room for error, as there is in everything.

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I'd be curious to see the results of that test performed on a larger scale - I can tell right away that at least one of the test (the synonym one) would be heavily affected by education.

 

You give no credit to psychologists by saying this. The test is designed to evaluate his brain's system of processing. Its not like they have a big list of right/wrong answers and 80% means man, 90% means woman. Psychological evaluation is more complicated than that.

 

Its like you hearing of something that a particle physicist is working on and being like "Well what if the wind came and blew the electrons around?!?!?!" Just an unwarranted jab at the legitimacy of the study.

 

Also even if it varied as simply as you are suggesting, why would that matter? "Men" would still be expected to do better than "women" on the spacial evaluation, regardless of their level of education. All they are concerned about is how his aptitude in certain areas compares to his aptitude in other areas. So how does education play a role in this?

A test like a synonym test is directly related to knowledge of vocabulary, hence education.

 

And what was the rest of the test? Mind reading? Psychic ability? Ability to run long distances?

 

All of the criteria were intellectual evaluation and his absolute score would probably have something to do with education.

 

It isnt about how high he scored on language aptitude, its about how high that score was in relation to other things. So how does education have anything to do with how good he is at one subject in relation to another?

 

All I'm saying is that in any test there are extenuating factors. Do you honestly think that every woman has exactly the same spatial capabilities regardless of experience and education?

 

I'm not saying the test was inherently flawed - I'm saying there's room for error, as there is in everything.

 

There's a proven line of thinking that accounts for most women as women, and most men as men. I don't see where you're coming from.

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All I'm saying is that in any test there are extenuating factors. Do you honestly think that every woman has exactly the same spatial capabilities regardless of experience and education?

 

I'm not saying the test was inherently flawed - I'm saying there's room for error, as there is in everything.

 

No, all you were saying is that education would sway the test. But its not about the magnitude of his score on one subject, its about the pattern his scores display across all subjects.

 

And I would say that women, regardless of experience and education, will display a trend in their results on this test. That doesnt mean that each individual woman should be expected to produce the results, it just means that women, as a whole, will have a dominating trend in their results on this test.

 

And I dont think every gay man is going to fall inside the "woman" profile. And I know a lot of straight men who have no mathematical skills, lots of language skills and would probably be a "woman" on that test.

 

But theres no real reason for you to start refuting the legitimacy of this test they did. There are still trends, and these trends are important to the field of psychology. The "errors" you speak of are accounted for in the graphs. They don't just throw out data that doesnt support their hypothesis

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Speaking from a psych major point of view, any gender "trends" using psychology are much smaller than people think. Genders have much more in common than people often wish to believe. Mostly, there's overlap. I'll edit in pictures showing what I mean.

 

Edit: Okay, so here are some rough drawings that attempt to imitate bell curves but do a really poor job of it because I used paint and made them in five minutes.

 

Here are what people perceive gender differences to be, with a category women are better at showing that nearly all women are better at that thing then nearly all men, with only the best men being better than the worst women:

genderwrong.png

 

 

Here's how things actually are, with the mean of women being only slightly better than the mean of men, a difference made significant only by the number of people who have been tested showing that women on average score better than men in that category:

genderright.png

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All I'm saying is that in any test there are extenuating factors. Do you honestly think that every woman has exactly the same spatial capabilities regardless of experience and education?

 

I'm not saying the test was inherently flawed - I'm saying there's room for error, as there is in everything.

 

No, all you were saying is that education would sway the test. But its not about the magnitude of his score on one subject, its about the pattern his scores display across all subjects.

 

And I would say that women, regardless of experience and education, will display a trend in their results on this test. That doesnt mean that each individual woman should be expected to produce the results, it just means that women, as a whole, will have a dominating trend in their results on this test.

 

And I dont think every gay man is going to fall inside the "woman" profile. And I know a lot of straight men who have no mathematical skills, lots of language skills and would probably be a "woman" on that test.

 

But theres no real reason for you to start refuting the legitimacy of this test they did. There are still trends, and these trends are important to the field of psychology. The "errors" you speak of are accounted for in the graphs. They don't just throw out data that doesnt support their hypothesis

 

 

I'm gay, and I've taken that test multiple times before. Every time, I fell right in the middle; I have neither a dominantly masculine nor dominantly feminine brain. This was the same for my straight friend, who is much more intelligent than me.

I'm an INTJ.

 

 

 

Wait...Cynic...

 

Are you a girl?

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