Magic is overpowered

[LatinII]

A guy with armadyl, d bolts, dbow for spec, and spectral or dfs will rip apart a mager with sol, arcane stream, arcane ss, and ahrims. Its not even a contest. The person with mage must have a melee weapon to hybrid with to have a chance. He cannot do it with just spells.

 

Yeah, a mage can. Drink an antifire, leech their special attack, use Miasmic and farcast their crossbow.

And if you can avoid the constant splashing, in addition sucessfully doing everything you just said, then maybe. But we are talking about maxed combat here, not some 99 ranger with magec level 1. Also, if you walk one square too far, they are unfrozen, and one square too close and they can still hit you. Unlike the rangers armor, the mage has next to nothing in the range def bonuses. Even with antifire pot, the d bolts are still gonna hit 30+ regularly, without the special. Good luck leeching special enough to actually get it below the d bow spec usage, since it doesn't even use close to the full bar.

 

You're underestimating Magic's accuracy. It won't take any more than 4-5 casts to freeze the ranger. It's not very hard to farcast a crossbow. There are techniques for it. Dark bows are slow. You have a few seconds to brew up if they're going to use their special attack. And then there's Miasmic, which cuts the ranger's DPH in half. That is a lot. The ranger is pretty much guaranteed to lose if the mage uses Miasmic.

 

Don't get me wrong though. A ranger that is properly made for killing a farcasting mage can make things difficult for the mage. But it most definitely won't be 'oh, lulz d bolts and dark bow spec and mage iz dead". Not against a mage that knows what he or she is doing.

[PereGrin]

A guy with armadyl, d bolts, dbow for spec, and spectral or dfs will rip apart a mager with sol, arcane stream, arcane ss, and ahrims. Its not even a contest. The person with mage must have a melee weapon to hybrid with to have a chance. He cannot do it with just spells.

 

Yeah, a mage can. Drink an antifire, leech their special attack, use Miasmic and farcast their crossbow.

And if you can avoid the constant splashing, in addition sucessfully doing everything you just said, then maybe. But we are talking about maxed combat here, not some 99 ranger with magec level 1. Also, if you walk one square too far, they are unfrozen, and one square too close and they can still hit you. Unlike the rangers armor, the mage has next to nothing in the range def bonuses. Even with antifire pot, the d bolts are still gonna hit 30+ regularly, without the special. Good luck leeching special enough to actually get it below the d bow spec usage, since it doesn't even use close to the full bar.

 

You're underestimating Magic's accuracy. It won't take any more than 4-5 casts to freeze the ranger. It's not very hard to farcast a crossbow. There are techniques for it. Dark bows are slow. You have a few seconds to brew up if they're going to use their special attack. And then there's Miasmic, which cuts the ranger's DPH in half. That is a lot. The ranger is pretty much guaranteed to lose if the mage uses Miasmic.

 

Don't get me wrong though. A ranger that is properly made for killing a farcasting mage can make things difficult for the mage. But it most definitely won't be 'oh, lulz d bolts and dark bow spec and mage iz dead". Not against a mage that knows what he or she is doing.

Farcasting a crossbow on rapid yes, but farcasting someone who knows to switch to longrange, or just switch to dbow to drastically increase the distance they can shoot is much harder. And still a mager will have next to no range defense. This makes the ranger just as accurate as mage. And if we are adding in pvp weapons, then don't forget that the ranger can also use Morrigan's Javs or Axes for huge damage. Adding miasmic, and the mage is starting to run out of inventory space for food.

 

Also, you seem to be assuming that the ranger has absolutely no skill, and the mage is an absolute god at farcasting. What I said was a proficient ranger with max range gear will be able to reliably beat a mage with max mage gear. I am not saying that d bolts and a dark bow are the end all range weapon, but they are powerful tools that a ranger has, and they have the same k0 potential as hitting 50+ with barrages. And the ranger is far more accurate then the mage is.

[Obtaurian]

A ranger in full Armadyl and spectral spirit shield using an array of weapons would decimate a mage IF the mage was not using miasmic barrage. However, miasmic barrage tips the scales pretty heavily, in which case I think it could go either way. It was a mistake to allow miasmic spells to affect ranged weapons.

[Sir_Kurity]

No it wasent.

 

Thats like saying dark bow special shouldnt effect armor.

 

That being said, miasmic is pretty OP, but that in general needs a nerf.

 

But you know what? Miasmic is only really good in deathmatches, if its not a deathmatch or similar, people will just run or tele or whatever... Unlike other classes top tier weaponry, its not that great for KO's, and will do naught but make your opponent run and safe like hell.

[BeNiceOk]

No it wasent.

 

Thats like saying dark bow special shouldnt effect armor.

 

That's a bad example.. Think of it like claws special making magic & range fire at half the speed, and then offering to take away the fact it slows down magic. Melee shouldn't really have anything that reduces the effectiveness of a mage (d-hide is hybrid not melee) and so mage shouldn't really have something of that effect against range.

 

In this case magic was given an edge against a triangle type is supposed to be weak against. The only reason its not overpowered is because the spells and staff are so expensive to use, so its not widely a thread.

 

It would be a good idea to change miasmic spells to melee only, thus making them a 100% chance to make melee fire at half the speed. At the moment, each spell is a 50% chance to slow ranged and 50% chance to slow melee. Removing range wouldn't really hurt anything as mages are supposed to get trashed by range anyways.

 

Back at the time there was no 25%+ damage bonus for magic, miasmic spells cutting out range speed was ok! But now that damage has been increased the spells have become OP'd slightly. It is not something that needs changed immediately, but if power is increased more than it currently is, there could be a larger balance problem with miasmic spells.

 

EDIT: I would actually like to see Jagex take advantage of some of these opportunities and change around some specials or add new ones. A range special that knocked the staff out of your hands into your inventory or a magic special that did that to melee weapons would be VERY powerful but not be overpowered since they are triangle based.

[Sir_Kurity]

Melee shouldn't really have anything that reduces the effectiveness of a mage

 

They dont have anything that reduces the effectiveness of mage, but they can still hit through mage armor like butter (OMG MELEE IS OVERPOWRED CAUSE THERE SPEC LIKE WORKS AGAINST MAGES). Miasmic is the staffs special, it should work against all classes, not just one class. In the same way that dark bow works against all classes, not just one class. Remember that because of ranges mage defence, they are likely to resist the magic anyway

 

(Infact if anything dark bow hits fighters just as hard because the spec rarely misses)

 

Look the combat triangle is all well and truly, but it shouldnt be some rock paper sissors system where a ranger beats a mage just by existing. All classes have there strengths and weaknesses, and just because a special effect happens to effect more than one class doesnt mean its suddenly inbalanced.

[howbadisbad]

Magic is nowhere near overpowered. The fact is that all the powerful "end-game" weapons are all ridiculously powerful, some belonging to melee, others to ranged. range has no endgame weapons, lul.The fact that Magic seemingly got "overpowered"with the Arcane Stream necklace, despite the only way to use it at its best is to go absolutely all out with 99 Magic and one of the best Magic offensive bonuses possible, actually means Magic is much closer to being balanced in power then being overpowered. Magic is once again close to where it should be in the combat triangle.

 

To help you understand, nuclear weapons are overpowered. One country can have 5 nuclear warheads. Another has 5. The third country has 2 or 3 nuclear weapons, meaning there's no balance of power between those three countries. Said country builds 3 more nuclear warheads to keep up the balance of power between them. Since this doesn't make sense

 

Magic may be "overpowered" on the surface, but it's actually a balance of power in respect to the damage melee and ranged can do (which were superior to magic before this update). Not to mention you have to go 100% all out w/stream Necklace and the best Magic boosting gear to even match the brokeness you can inflict with Ranged and Melee w/o even trying. which means Magic is actually barely balanced with Ranged and Melee now.Magic has the highest DPS in the game. l2pk

 

A player with level 86 strength with a 148 Strength Bonus (Armadyl Godsword, Dragon Gauntlets, Dragon Boots, Helm of Neitiznot, Amulet of Glory) with Ultimate Strength prayer, Super Strength Potion and AGS special can potentially inflict 580 damage. someone with 94 mage can hit nearly as high with much more accuracy and speed

 

99 Magic, which is a lot longer to get, with Arcane Stream necklace and the best offensive Magic bonus possible, can hit over 600 with Ice Barrage. The player with the same strength-boosting gear but with 99 strength can hit 676...which is about the absolute maximum Magic can hit with one attack. Melee can hit even higher with a maximum +205 strength bonus and 99 strength, inflicting over 900 damage, with a single AGS special. Ranged can two hit someone with over 900 hp in a single special: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzpanCqXuL4 (old HP system). CAN is the keyword here.

 

You think Magic is overpowered? Not by a longshot. lawl you have no idea what you are talking about

 

and lol@people saying Ranged is underpowered. Ranged generally dominates melee in the PvP triangle and can freakin' 2 hit people with 1 DarkBow special.

That is not right. Wow you have obviously never pked before or have had almost no experience with it, I can tell just by this statement.

 

This is coming form a guy with 58 mage and 65 range. Nice.

 

1) You clearly don't understand the nuclear analogy. It's really not hard to understand at all. Melee and Ranged are far more powerful then Mage in comparison. Magic got a boost to match their level of brokeness, hence the adding of two "nuclear warheads" to "magic".

 

2) One of the highest. Ranged and Melee can easily match Magic DPS with a combo. You also clearly haven't seen D Claws in action or a Dark Bow if you think Magic has the highest DPS in the game...rofl. D Claws can hit over 930 damage in one special that takes about a second....Magic just matches that. Not to mention even if it doesn't max out damage, it inflicts high damage consistently none the less. Both the AGS and D Claws special have been acclaimed for their incredibly high accuracy - the same you cite for Magic. It is not more nor less accurate than Magic attacks with an Arcane Stream Necklace - it is the same. Not to mention the EXTREMELY HIGH risk you carry when you even PK to get that kind of accuracy with Magic. Pkers would need to risk tens of millions to hundreds of millions if considering to pk with Magic to get the consistency and damage you claim. Ranged and Melee have the same consistency for much, much less of a risk financially. Dark Bow can two hit people with it's special for about 900 damage a special which also takes about a second in the video I linked to. Again, Magic is balanced with Ranged. I'm pretty sure there isn't "infinite special" Once your out of that melee's dps goes down considerably compared to mage.

 

3)AGS special is one of the most accurate attacks in the entire game....Magic is balanced with that. If someone worked to 94 mage, a feat in itself, it deserves to have that accuracy. It is actually not, If you fight someone in barrows you will see why.

 

4) Melee and Ranged can hit consistently as high as Magic considering you need all three of them to go all out to even reach about the same DPS...so no. Ha, They hit constantly as high? I would like to see someone constantly hit me with ANYTHING melee or range through barrows. Magic DOMINATES karils while range and melee bounce off torags.

 

5) The funny thing is, you have 90+ Magic and Ranged and you have no idea what you're talking about. Lawl guess again

 

From the second you make the statement that Magic is overpowered, anyone can tell you've never PK'ed before, or even PK'ed with Magic, because if you had fought long enough to see what Melee and Ranged can do, you would come to the correct conclusion that the combat triangle is finally balanced. Not even close.

 

Try again.

 

@ esto

 

The spec almost always misses on armor if you count 8-8 as a miss.

[SirIzenhime]

it's supposed to miss a lot on armour, because melee > range (supposed to at least)

[demby123]

No it wasent.

 

Thats like saying dark bow special shouldnt effect armor.

 

That's a bad example.. Think of it like claws special making magic & range fire at half the speed, and then offering to take away the fact it slows down magic. Melee shouldn't really have anything that reduces the effectiveness of a mage (d-hide is hybrid not melee) and so mage shouldn't really have something of that effect against range.

 

In this case magic was given an edge against a triangle type is supposed to be weak against. The only reason its not overpowered is because the spells and staff are so expensive to use, so its not widely a thread.

 

It would be a good idea to change miasmic spells to melee only, thus making them a 100% chance to make melee fire at half the speed. At the moment, each spell is a 50% chance to slow ranged and 50% chance to slow melee. Removing range wouldn't really hurt anything as mages are supposed to get trashed by range anyways.

 

Back at the time there was no 25%+ damage bonus for magic, miasmic spells cutting out range speed was ok! But now that damage has been increased the spells have become OP'd slightly. It is not something that needs changed immediately, but if power is increased more than it currently is, there could be a larger balance problem with miasmic spells.

 

EDIT: I would actually like to see Jagex take advantage of some of these opportunities and change around some specials or add new ones. A range special that knocked the staff out of your hands into your inventory or a magic special that did that to melee weapons would be VERY powerful but not be overpowered since they are triangle based.

The problem I have with d hide on meleers is the fact that dragonhide reduces a mages offence AND defence, as magical offence is your primary defence. With other situations, you only loose/gain one advantage or disadvantage from using another class's armor. A ranger can tank a meleer, but he will hit with lower accuracy. A mage can do the same to a ranger, but will have even more trouble than the ranger. But when a meleer equips hides, a rangers defence against mages, they've just gained an offensive and defensive advantage. Don't get me wrong, freezes will stop a meleer after a few casts, but the damage done will eventually end up higher than it really should be.

[howbadisbad]

No it wasent.

 

Thats like saying dark bow special shouldnt effect armor.

 

That's a bad example.. Think of it like claws special making magic & range fire at half the speed, and then offering to take away the fact it slows down magic. Melee shouldn't really have anything that reduces the effectiveness of a mage (d-hide is hybrid not melee) and so mage shouldn't really have something of that effect against range.

 

In this case magic was given an edge against a triangle type is supposed to be weak against. The only reason its not overpowered is because the spells and staff are so expensive to use, so its not widely a thread.

 

It would be a good idea to change miasmic spells to melee only, thus making them a 100% chance to make melee fire at half the speed. At the moment, each spell is a 50% chance to slow ranged and 50% chance to slow melee. Removing range wouldn't really hurt anything as mages are supposed to get trashed by range anyways.

 

Back at the time there was no 25%+ damage bonus for magic, miasmic spells cutting out range speed was ok! But now that damage has been increased the spells have become OP'd slightly. It is not something that needs changed immediately, but if power is increased more than it currently is, there could be a larger balance problem with miasmic spells.

 

EDIT: I would actually like to see Jagex take advantage of some of these opportunities and change around some specials or add new ones. A range special that knocked the staff out of your hands into your inventory or a magic special that did that to melee weapons would be VERY powerful but not be overpowered since they are triangle based.

The problem I have with d hide on meleers is the fact that dragonhide reduces a mages offence AND defence, as magical offence is your primary defence. With other situations, you only loose/gain one advantage or disadvantage from using another class's armor. A ranger can tank a meleer, but he will hit with lower accuracy. A mage can do the same to a ranger, but will have even more trouble than the ranger. But when a meleer equips hides, a rangers defence against mages, they've just gained an offensive and defensive advantage. Don't get me wrong, freezes will stop a meleer after a few casts, but the damage done will eventually end up higher than it really should be.

 

A mage in range armor can easily freeze a meleer.

[Squisher_33]

It's about time the combat triangle actually worked. Most people melee in pvp, and magic beats melee. Nothing overpowered there.

 

Yet magic completely destroys range, obviously a problem there.

 

Range is underpowered HUGELY. I agree. It wouldn't hurt jagex to add a new super powerful range weapon, like a gun or something, range would own magic if it had an ak-47.

 

Mm.

 

Melee=knife

Ranged=gun

 

gun>knife

 

ranged>melee, tbh

 

Oh, but yeah, is Ranged "underpowered" when compared to Magic? Possibly. By that much? Depends on the gear. I'm sure with the right Ranged set up you can dominate even a Mager who has the Arcane Stream necklace.

 

yes however you also forget magic = avada kadavra

 

avada kadavra > gun > knife because many more than just 1 person has survived a knife and gun

[demby123]

No it wasent.

 

Thats like saying dark bow special shouldnt effect armor.

 

That's a bad example.. Think of it like claws special making magic & range fire at half the speed, and then offering to take away the fact it slows down magic. Melee shouldn't really have anything that reduces the effectiveness of a mage (d-hide is hybrid not melee) and so mage shouldn't really have something of that effect against range.

 

In this case magic was given an edge against a triangle type is supposed to be weak against. The only reason its not overpowered is because the spells and staff are so expensive to use, so its not widely a thread.

 

It would be a good idea to change miasmic spells to melee only, thus making them a 100% chance to make melee fire at half the speed. At the moment, each spell is a 50% chance to slow ranged and 50% chance to slow melee. Removing range wouldn't really hurt anything as mages are supposed to get trashed by range anyways.

 

Back at the time there was no 25%+ damage bonus for magic, miasmic spells cutting out range speed was ok! But now that damage has been increased the spells have become OP'd slightly. It is not something that needs changed immediately, but if power is increased more than it currently is, there could be a larger balance problem with miasmic spells.

 

EDIT: I would actually like to see Jagex take advantage of some of these opportunities and change around some specials or add new ones. A range special that knocked the staff out of your hands into your inventory or a magic special that did that to melee weapons would be VERY powerful but not be overpowered since they are triangle based.

The problem I have with d hide on meleers is the fact that dragonhide reduces a mages offence AND defence, as magical offence is your primary defence. With other situations, you only loose/gain one advantage or disadvantage from using another class's armor. A ranger can tank a meleer, but he will hit with lower accuracy. A mage can do the same to a ranger, but will have even more trouble than the ranger. But when a meleer equips hides, a rangers defence against mages, they've just gained an offensive and defensive advantage. Don't get me wrong, freezes will stop a meleer after a few casts, but the damage done will eventually end up higher than it really should be.

 

A mage in range armor can easily freeze a meleer.

Who is also in range armor? And why on earth would a mage wear range armor.

[Sly_Wizard]

On the topic of miamic barrage, I'm a bit saddened that I can't use it. Why, oh why, do staves have attack requirements? That's just asinine.

[howbadisbad]

No it wasent.

 

Thats like saying dark bow special shouldnt effect armor.

 

That's a bad example.. Think of it like claws special making magic & range fire at half the speed, and then offering to take away the fact it slows down magic. Melee shouldn't really have anything that reduces the effectiveness of a mage (d-hide is hybrid not melee) and so mage shouldn't really have something of that effect against range.

 

In this case magic was given an edge against a triangle type is supposed to be weak against. The only reason its not overpowered is because the spells and staff are so expensive to use, so its not widely a thread.

 

It would be a good idea to change miasmic spells to melee only, thus making them a 100% chance to make melee fire at half the speed. At the moment, each spell is a 50% chance to slow ranged and 50% chance to slow melee. Removing range wouldn't really hurt anything as mages are supposed to get trashed by range anyways.

 

Back at the time there was no 25%+ damage bonus for magic, miasmic spells cutting out range speed was ok! But now that damage has been increased the spells have become OP'd slightly. It is not something that needs changed immediately, but if power is increased more than it currently is, there could be a larger balance problem with miasmic spells.

 

EDIT: I would actually like to see Jagex take advantage of some of these opportunities and change around some specials or add new ones. A range special that knocked the staff out of your hands into your inventory or a magic special that did that to melee weapons would be VERY powerful but not be overpowered since they are triangle based.

The problem I have with d hide on meleers is the fact that dragonhide reduces a mages offence AND defence, as magical offence is your primary defence. With other situations, you only loose/gain one advantage or disadvantage from using another class's armor. A ranger can tank a meleer, but he will hit with lower accuracy. A mage can do the same to a ranger, but will have even more trouble than the ranger. But when a meleer equips hides, a rangers defence against mages, they've just gained an offensive and defensive advantage. Don't get me wrong, freezes will stop a meleer after a few casts, but the damage done will eventually end up higher than it really should be.

 

A mage in range armor can easily freeze a meleer.

Who is also in range armor? And why on earth would a mage wear range armor.

 

 

Ever seen a high level clan war? The majority use ancients.

 

 

Replace the dfs with a mages book or arcane/ other spirit sheild.

 

It offers high magic def with the ability to still freeze meleers (also has good def)

[howbadisbad]

Only a f34 and 35 large keeps me from my precious....

 

But I have to go to sleep :( I hate work sometimes <_<

[Sir_Kurity]

Its alot harder to hybrid as a mage because ALL non mage armor seems to rape with mage attack.

 

By comparison, a fighter can use pretty much any armor he feels like, a ranger can use some peices of melee armor and not feel to much of a pinch, but a mage on d'hide or whatever gets screwed over.

[muggiwhplar]

Ever seen a high level clan war? The majority use ancients.

 

 

Replace the dfs with a mages book or arcane/ other spirit sheild.

 

It offers high magic def with the ability to still freeze meleers (also has good def)

 

that's a terrible mage setup lol

[howbadisbad]

Not for clan wars.

[Sir_Kurity]

Not for clan wars.

 

I dont see your overpowered arcane steam necklace + Staff of light + Zuriels staff + Wolpertinger + Overload + Chaotic staff + Spirit shield OP setup there!!!

[howbadisbad]

Not for clan wars.

 

I dont see your overpowered arcane steam necklace + Staff of light + Zuriels staff + Wolpertinger + Overload + Chaotic staff + Spirit shield OP setup there!!!

 

I didnt have my arcane stream at that point in time, or a chaotic staff.

 

I am still working on the cash for overloads / prayer / sheilds

 

:)

[muggiwhplar]

Not for clan wars.

 

verac's brassard + ahrim's skirt is waaaaaaay better than maging in armadyl, in any circumstance.

 

with veracs/ahrims, you have 41 more magic att (a LOT), 26 more stab def, 51 more slash def, and 26 more crush def. armadyl only has 9 more range def, and over 100 magic def-- yet if you're fighting a mage in armadyl, your accuracy will be too low to compensate.

[SirIzenhime]

range and mage def > Melee def in CLan wars, but I can see using Brassard + skirt being good, and switching to arma when getting piled

[howbadisbad]

range and mage def > Melee def in CLan wars, but I can see using Brassard + skirt being good, and switching to arma when getting piled

 

I was stating that that was the optimal setup for the kind of clan wars I'm usually in. 90 v 90 +

 

Mage piles will wreck anyone without high magic def :L

[muggiwhplar]

range and mage def > Melee def in CLan wars, but I can see using Brassard + skirt being good, and switching to arma when getting piled

 

I was stating that that was the optimal setup for the kind of clan wars I'm usually in. 90 v 90 +

 

Mage piles will wreck anyone without high magic def :L

 

well obviously one person against 10 mages will get wrecked, but 10 mages in armadyl will lose against 10 mages in ahrims

[Nukearcher]

Ever seen a high level clan war? The majority use ancients.

 

 

Replace the dfs with a mages book or arcane/ other spirit sheild.

 

It offers high magic def with the ability to still freeze meleers (also has good def)

 

that's a terrible mage setup lol

agree with muggi i would rather wear

 

not much less def and much higher mage att ect