Getting the iOS 4.0 update? If you don't have 3GS, 4G, or 3G iPod, you're screwed.

[helpmeownlife]

You know the iPod Touch/iPhone 4.0 update that's coming out today? You know, adding multitasking, folders, wallpapers, global portrait lock, and a unified inbox?

 

Well, unless you have either the newest iPhone, or you've pre-ordered iPhone 4 (the 3GS/4G), you're screwed. And if you're an iPod Touch user, you have to have the brand new iPod.

 

If you're an iPod Touch 2G user like me (or an original iPod Touch user), sorry. You're screwed.

 

If you're outside that very recent product circle, the only things you get?

 

Folders, and a unified inbox.

 

Not even the wall papers. Or a global orientation lock. How hard is that?

 

It's [bleep]ing ridiculous. Jailbroken first generations have been doing this stuff for how long and they haven't had a problem. 2G Touchs and ordinary 3G iPhones were planned for multitasking. But Apple (right before the release, at the keynote) decided to exclude it.

 

Any why? So they can get more money and force loyal customers to buy the newest products. More money for them. Cheap bastards.

 

See you, loyal Apple fans. The moment it comes out, I'm going to the jailbroken side of life.

[Laura]

Moved to Tech & Computers.

 

But before you complain about the 3G not getting multitasking, you should try it out yourself. I had the GM developer seed and enabled multitasking on my 3G by altering plist files. Put simply, it doesn't work well. 128MB of RAM is not enough to keep all of those applications running simultaneously. Even with just the springboard open, you have at best 50MB of RAM free. I was disappointed about the wallpapers, but that too can be solved by editing plist files.

 

Have fun jailbreaking, though. I'll be jailbreaking 4.0 with redsn0w in a few minutes.

 

I'm looking forward to the delivery of my iPhone 4 on Thursday.

[Will H]

This is why I didn't get an iPhone. The things become outdated and unsupported as soon as you walk out of the store.

[Azvareth]

3G is laggy as hell as it is, and the 2G is even older (right?), so they definitely couldn't handle multi-tasking. It's a bit weird that you don't get the wallpaper feature unlocked though.

 

I'd write a longer reply but I'm a bit busy downladin' the iOS 4.0 to my 3GS atm. :cool:

[Laura]

This is why I didn't get an iPhone. The things become outdated and unsupported as soon as you walk out of the store.

Not really. They are two/three year old devices with insufficient hardware to support the more intensive processes. Everything else is enabled.

 

3G is laggy as hell as it is, and the 2G is even older (right?), so they definitely couldn't handle multi-tasking. It's a bit weird that you don't get the wallpaper feature unlocked though.

Apple is truly trying to get users to let go of their 2G iPhones. The 2G uses the same processor, GPU, RAM etc as the 3G, with the only difference being in the AGPS and 3G chip. Which is a shame really, because the original iPhone is beautiful in my opinion. Much nicer than the plastic shells on the 3G/3GS.

[rangeor]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure this is more of Moore's law than Apple being jerks.

[helpmeownlife]

laura, redsn0w has a 4.0 break already? How?

[Laura]

I took a gamble and pointed redsn0w to the GM build of iOS 4. It works, but Cydia isn't up to the task yet; it is filled with repository errors. This also enabled multitasking and the changing of wallpapers on the 3G.

 

It's a long process and only works on the 3G (that I know of, I don't have any other devices and I think redsn0w only jailbreaks the 3G) but if you want I will walk you through it.

[Will H]

This is why I didn't get an iPhone. The things become outdated and unsupported as soon as you walk out of the store.

Not really. They are two/three year old devices with insufficient hardware to support the more intensive processes. Everything else is enabled.

 

 

That's the problem. iPhone hardware depreciates way faster than desktop PC hardware, which normally goes from 'completely new' to 'completely insufficient' in six to seven years, following Moore's Law, should the hardware live that long. I appreciate that we're not talking about the 2G being completely insufficient, but it's no longer receiving full OS updates, which is normally something that's 4 or 5 years down the line, not 2 or 3. Apple are intentionally playing the system to get you to buy a new iPhone when you shouldn't need one.

[champion]

Have fun jailbreaking, though. I'll be jailbreaking 4.0 with redsn0w in a few minutes.

I don't even know if it's worth updating the OS, I can do all the 4.0 stuff jailbroken on 3.1.2. And I don't know if a reliable jailbreak is out for iPod Touch 2G.

 

Can anyone tell me about that Game Center feature (whatever it's called)? That might be worth upgrading for.

[Laura]

This is why I didn't get an iPhone. The things become outdated and unsupported as soon as you walk out of the store.

Not really. They are two/three year old devices with insufficient hardware to support the more intensive processes. Everything else is enabled.

 

 

That's the problem. iPhone hardware depreciates way faster than desktop PC hardware, which normally goes from 'completely new' to 'completely insufficient' in six to seven years, following Moore's Law, should the hardware live that long. I appreciate that we're not talking about the 2G being completely insufficient, but it's no longer receiving full OS updates, which is normally something that's 4 or 5 years down the line, not 2 or 3. Apple are intentionally playing the system to get you to buy a new iPhone when you shouldn't need one.

You comparing two dissimilar things; you're comparing a nuclear arsenal to convectional ovens. You shouldn't be saying the iPhone hardware depreciates faster, but rather phones as a whole.

 

The 2G iPhone isn't any worse than it was three years ago (actually, it's better, given all the OS upgrades!), but it's not up to standard on running twenty applications simultaneously. Apple actually has a very high standard as far as supporting OSs are concerned. Buy a Samsung/RIM/etc phone and you're lucky to even get an OS upgrade past the date of purchase. Google is pretty good about it too, but you would be hard pressed to go a year without having your phone's OS support being dropped.

 

It's been three years, they can't keep up support forever. 3.1.3 is a great OS to be on.

 

 

Have fun jailbreaking, though. I'll be jailbreaking 4.0 with redsn0w in a few minutes.

I don't even know if it's worth updating the OS, I can do all the 4.0 stuff jailbroken on 3.1.2. And I don't know if a reliable jailbreak is out for iPod Touch 2G.

 

Can anyone tell me about that Game Center feature (whatever it's called)? That might be worth upgrading for.

It depends on what device you're on. If you're happy with 3.1.2 then stick with that for now, at least until things pan out. However, the only viable reason I see to stay on 3.1.2 for any great length of time is to keep your unlock (but you don't have a phone...so...). Just my opinion at least.

 

Your device can be jailbroken by modifying redsn0w to accept the firmware. However, many of Cydia's repositories are screwed up right now, so I would hold off until the dev team clears it.

 

EDIT: The dev team just released a new beta of redsn0w.

 

For now, the redsn0w beta release supports only the iPhone3G and iPod Touch 2G at today’s 4.0. It’s still a beta, so you’ll need to let Cydia reorganize, reload, and update after using redsn0w.

[Saru Inc]

Moved to Tech & Computers.

 

But before you complain about the 3G not getting multitasking, you should try it out yourself. I had the GM developer seed and enabled multitasking on my 3G by altering plist files. Put simply, it doesn't work well. 128MB of RAM is not enough to keep all of those applications running simultaneously. Even with just the springboard open, you have at best 50MB of RAM free. I was disappointed about the wallpapers, but that too can be solved by editing plist files.

 

Have fun jailbreaking, though. I'll be jailbreaking 4.0 with redsn0w in a few minutes.

 

I'm looking forward to the delivery of my iPhone 4 on Thursday.

 

 

How much did it cost :o

 

 

I want one so bad.... Even though I wish it had a physical keyboard.

[Laura]

I'm looking forward to the delivery of my iPhone 4 on Thursday.

How much did it cost :o

 

 

I want one so bad.... Even though I wish it had a physical keyboard.

Bought straight from Apple for $200 (16GB model).

[fastortoise]

I'm looking forward to the delivery of my iPhone 4 on Thursday.

How much did it cost :o

 

 

I want one so bad.... Even though I wish it had a physical keyboard.

Bought straight from Apple for $200 (16GB model).

When you buy it off Apple is it unlocked? I know I recently read an article saying that Apple will unlock all their factory sold phones in Canada so we get to move around choosing which providers to use, but I don't know about the US.

[pennywise]

I just jailbroke my iphone 3g

now i can do everything.

[Laura]

I'm looking forward to the delivery of my iPhone 4 on Thursday.

How much did it cost :o

 

 

I want one so bad.... Even though I wish it had a physical keyboard.

Bought straight from Apple for $200 (16GB model).

When you buy it off Apple is it unlocked? I know I recently read an article saying that Apple will unlock all their factory sold phones in Canada so we get to move around choosing which providers to use, but I don't know about the US.

Not in the US. And the only other carrier you can use the iPhone with is T-Mobile and even then you can't use 3G.

[Will H]

This is why I didn't get an iPhone. The things become outdated and unsupported as soon as you walk out of the store.

Not really. They are two/three year old devices with insufficient hardware to support the more intensive processes. Everything else is enabled.

 

 

That's the problem. iPhone hardware depreciates way faster than desktop PC hardware, which normally goes from 'completely new' to 'completely insufficient' in six to seven years, following Moore's Law, should the hardware live that long. I appreciate that we're not talking about the 2G being completely insufficient, but it's no longer receiving full OS updates, which is normally something that's 4 or 5 years down the line, not 2 or 3. Apple are intentionally playing the system to get you to buy a new iPhone when you shouldn't need one.

You comparing two dissimilar things; you're comparing a nuclear arsenal to convectional ovens. You shouldn't be saying the iPhone hardware depreciates faster, but rather phones as a whole.

 

The 2G iPhone isn't any worse than it was three years ago (actually, it's better, given all the OS upgrades!), but it's not up to standard on running twenty applications simultaneously. Apple actually has a very high standard as far as supporting OSs are concerned. Buy a Samsung/RIM/etc phone and you're lucky to even get an OS upgrade past the date of purchase. Google is pretty good about it too, but you would be hard pressed to go a year without having your phone's OS support being dropped.

 

It's been three years, they can't keep up support forever. 3.1.3 is a great OS to be on.

 

They're not dissimilar. Computing power at any given chip size is doubling approximately every two years. That's the limiting factor for both PC hardware and mobile hardware. They might be at very different levels of computing power, but it's the exponential rate of change of computing power that's the same. I'm saying that the iPhone 2G should have been capable of multi-tasking from the start, but Apple have intentionally made sure that it was only possible in older models. Buy a smartphone from a company that doesn't have such an artificial rate of depreciation.

[Laura]

They're not dissimilar. Computing power at any given chip size is doubling approximately every two years. That's the limiting factor for both PC hardware and mobile hardware. They might be at very different levels of computing power, but it's the exponential rate of change of computing power that's the same.

Chip size isn't even the issue right now. If you're arguing that multitasking should have been enabled on the first place, you're taking about RAM. The ARM 11 @ 412 MHz is plenty enough to run the process. The 2G and 3G aren't crippled in that sense because they are better today than they were two to three years ago. That's truly more than you can say about most phones out there.

 

I'm saying that the iPhone 2G should have been capable of multi-tasking from the start, but Apple have intentionally made sure that it was only possible in older models.

Are they supposed to travel back in time and upgrade the RAM? 4.0 is capable on the 2G, as is multitasking. However, neither (or at least the latter) actually function properly. I'm not sure if you've ever owned either an iPhone 2G/3G and have compared those devices with the 3GS, but the difference is phenominal. As I've said earlier, I've enabled multitasking on my 3G and while it works great for Apple's stock apps, it brings nothing but crashing when used with Pandora and other App store apps. And that is exactly why multitasking is not supported - it cheapens the experience on the phone and totally takes away from the whole point. The 2G and 3G (and every other iDevice) runs Mail, SMS, Phone, and iPod in the background (ie, extremely limited multitasking). The only thing the multitasking would do for these phones is become a switcher - the exact same thing you can do with the homescreen.

 

Buy a smartphone from a company that doesn't have such an artificial rate of depreciation.

And which [phone] company might that be?

[rangeor]

So I was really upset backgrounds on the 3G weren't enabled. I was fine with no multitasking, but the no backgrounds deal really got me upset. Then I found out there's actually a good reason why:

 

In implementing homescreen wallpapers, Apple realised that (as is clear from many Jailbreak themes) custom backgrounds often look rubbish and/or reduce usability. To counteract this they've added drop shadows to all the icons and text which make it much more readable / attractive. Unfortunately this runs like crap on a 3G (and you can test this on a jailbroken device, google "enable homescreen wallpapers 3g"). So Apple were left with 3 choices:

 

1. Enable it on the 3G, leaving it running like crap.

2. Enable it on the 3G, but remove the shadows making it look crap.

3. Disable it on the 3G completely.

[Will H]

They're not dissimilar. Computing power at any given chip size is doubling approximately every two years. That's the limiting factor for both PC hardware and mobile hardware. They might be at very different levels of computing power, but it's the exponential rate of change of computing power that's the same.

Chip size isn't even the issue right now. If you're arguing that multitasking should have been enabled on the first place, you're taking about RAM. The ARM 11 @ 412 MHz is plenty enough to run the process. The 2G and 3G aren't crippled in that sense because they are better today than they were two to three years ago. That's truly more than you can say about most phones out there.

 

Moore's law counts for RAM too. Computing power was probably the wrong phrase, I was referring to transistors on a circuit.

 

I'm saying that the iPhone 2G should have been capable of multi-tasking from the start, but Apple have intentionally made sure that it was only possible in older models.

Are they supposed to travel back in time and upgrade the RAM? 4.0 is capable on the 2G, as is multitasking. However, neither (or at least the latter) actually function properly. I'm not sure if you've ever owned either an iPhone 2G/3G and have compared those devices with the 3GS, but the difference is phenominal. As I've said earlier, I've enabled multitasking on my 3G and while it works great for Apple's stock apps, it brings nothing but crashing when used with Pandora and other App store apps. And that is exactly why multitasking is not supported - it cheapens the experience on the phone and totally takes away from the whole point. The 2G and 3G (and every other iDevice) runs Mail, SMS, Phone, and iPod in the background (ie, extremely limited multitasking). The only thing the multitasking would do for these phones is become a switcher - the exact same thing you can do with the homescreen.

This is the desired effect of Apple's strategy of developing the generations of iPhone. They held back on the hardware in the first place to make it seem as if they're progressing faster than everyone else. It's akin to supermarkets putting unreasonably high prices on certain products and never advertising it, then cutting those prices to a merely reasonable value and then slapping a '60% OFF' advertisement campaign to give the impression that the price is actually really cheap.

 

Buy a smartphone from a company that doesn't have such an artificial rate of depreciation.

And which [phone] company might that be? Google is pretty much null given your above statement, considering that Android hasn't been out for three years.

I never mentioned Google. I don't even own a smartphone right now. I'm just saying that Apple should be off the list of trustworthy companies when it comes to its smartphones. I don't think Google makes its own hardware for Android anyway.

[Laura]

Moore's law counts for RAM too. Computing power was probably the wrong phrase, I was referring to transistors on a circuit.

I don't understand, then. 128MB of RAM in a phone was great three years ago. In fact, it was downright unheard of. Now the iPhone 4 has 512MB. I don't understand how you're saying that Moore's law plays a part in addition to Apple crippling their technology.

 

This is the desired effect of Apple's strategy of developing the generations of iPhone. They held back on the hardware in the first place to make it seem as if they're progressing faster than everyone else. It's akin to supermarkets putting unreasonably high prices on certain products and never advertising it, then cutting those prices to a merely reasonable value and then slapping a '60% OFF' advertisement campaign to give the impression that the price is actually really cheap.

Every company does this. Intel does it with their roadmaps, Samsung does it with their NAND flash, LG with their displays, etc. They could have put 256MB of RAM in the 2G, but it was already what, $600 (w/o subsidy)? It's like the people pleading for a 64GB iPhone model at $300 - it's not going to happen without a bump in price.

 

I never mentioned Google. I don't even own a smartphone right now. I'm just saying that Apple should be off the list of trustworthy companies when it comes to its smartphones. I don't think Google makes its own hardware for Android anyway.

Google is the closest you get to offering OS updates for smartphones (Nokia's Symbian, WinMo?), hence the mention. Samsung and RIM don't even offer OS upgrades for devices one, two or, three years old. Heck, most people are lucky to even get one. In my opinion, Apple should be up there with Google as far as OS support goes.

[Sbrideau]

And which [phone] company might that be?

Blackberry perhaps?

[Laura]

And which [phone] company might that be?

Blackberry perhaps?

The problem with that example is that each individual carrier decides which phones get which updates, not RIM. It becomes even more confusing when you see that Verizon has the latest firmware update for the Storm, but AT&T does not. In any case, here is a list of devices with their corresponding firmwares and it's no different than what Apple does.

[fastortoise]

I have a question: would it be 'less illegal' to jailbreak a factory-bought iphone and then just have a talk&text plan (10-15$/month) from a cellphone company than to jailbreak an iphone bought from a carrier which you signed a contract with data plan with? I'm pretty sure you're forced to have a data plan when you sign one of those three year contacts with your provider.

 

EDIT: wait, do you still need a data plan to fully use your iphone?

[Laura]

I have a question: would it be 'less illegal' to jailbreak a factory-bought iphone and then just have a talk&text plan (10-15$/month) from a cellphone company than to jailbreak an iphone bought from a carrier which you signed a contract with data plan with? I'm pretty sure you're forced to have a data plan when you sign one of those three year contacts with your provider.

 

EDIT: wait, do you still need a data plan to fully use your iphone?

Depends on your carrier. The only reason that they are subsidizing is because you're in a contact. If you pay the off-contract price then you're free to leave at anytime without an ETF. However, AT&T (and others) requires the iPhone to have a data plan, regardless of contract status. What you can do is buy an GSM phone with a SIM card, ring up the cellphone company (on a landline) and have them activate the SIM number with a plan for talk and text. You can then put the SIM card in your iPhone and use it without data. This only works for a little while until the company realizes you're on an iPhone. This is done by recognizing the IMEI that is given to each phone, and this cannot be altered (it also happens to be illegal). It's not a good method and not one I would rely on.