Mosque at Ground Zero

[Nenga]

I watched Fox News last night and was pissed off. I see a stupid redneck at a podium declaring that because Muslims didn't sign the declaration of independence that makes them worthless. We are a Christian nation, thus the fact that we are well known for our acceptance of others and our "anyone can go from a nobody to a somebody" policy is worthless. Despite the fact Muslims didn't found the country, despite the fact we are a Christian nation, we still accept others. But because we are fighting the crazies of Islam, that means the doctors, the lawyers, the ones who aren't harming this country are bad. It shows everyone that America is racist and it's ideals are stupid facades for the fact we are intolerant of others.

 

The mosque is two blocks away. People think it's being built right over Ground Zero and will have statues of Osama Bin Laden on it's grounds. It won't. And you know what I personally think? All this hate that is being spouted, all the stupidity of people who are self declared patriots (If you are then why don't you complain that there is no memorial of any sort at Ground Zero after nine [bleep]ing years?) is going to come back and bite America in the ass. This will be in the history books when America is nothing anymore. It will go down showing that we were a land of false ideals. But, even closer term problems I am sure will arise. Let's tell the Muslim's we hate them! Let's burn the Koran as some people in Florida I saw on the news are going to do September 11. Let's suddenly stand in front of the local mosque with picket signs. Let's show the fact that we love the country so much we want the terrorists to know we want a repeat of 9/11.

 

Because that's what I think the effect of this is going to be. Another 9/11, something worse even. Because I am sure Osama and Al Queda are watching.

Just because you saw some [bleep] on Fox give his messed up opinion on the country doesn't mean we're all like that. Saying that, you're no better than the people who oppose the building.

[OldJoe]

^So people who oppose/protest against the building are naturally bad just because they do?

[Alg]

Why don't we just say "People are [bleep]s" and call it a night (or day)?

[Nenga]

^So people who oppose/protest against the building are naturally bad just because they do?

It's not that they're "bad" so much as wrong. There is no reason not to let it be built. They're judging all Muslims on the actions of a few people.

[Zygimantas]

Why don't we just say "People are [bleep]s" and call it a night (or day)?

I wish we would not have to. But it is just in our nature... it makes for a good show though :P

[Alg]

Why don't we just say "People are [bleep]s" and call it a night (or day)?

I wish we would not have to. But it is just in our nature... it makes for a good show though :P

Also makes the good moments that much better.

[Zygimantas]

Why don't we just say "People are [bleep]s" and call it a night (or day)?

I wish we would not have to. But it is just in our nature... it makes for a good show though :P

Also makes the good moments that much better.

Good moments seem to be great and plenty in our memories. But when we look at the present and future the good moments seem much less great and fewer.

[H2PM]

Whoops.

[Zygimantas]

^ Look at second post

[Harakiri]

I watched Fox News last night and was pissed off. I see a stupid redneck at a podium declaring that because Muslims didn't sign the declaration of independence that makes them worthless. We are a Christian nation, thus the fact that we are well known for our acceptance of others and our "anyone can go from a nobody to a somebody" policy is worthless. Despite the fact Muslims didn't found the country, despite the fact we are a Christian nation, we still accept others. But because we are fighting the crazies of Islam, that means the doctors, the lawyers, the ones who aren't harming this country are bad. It shows everyone that America is racist and it's ideals are stupid facades for the fact we are intolerant of others.

 

The mosque is two blocks away. People think it's being built right over Ground Zero and will have statues of Osama Bin Laden on it's grounds. It won't. And you know what I personally think? All this hate that is being spouted, all the stupidity of people who are self declared patriots (If you are then why don't you complain that there is no memorial of any sort at Ground Zero after nine [bleep]ing years?) is going to come back and bite America in the ass. This will be in the history books when America is nothing anymore. It will go down showing that we were a land of false ideals. But, even closer term problems I am sure will arise. Let's tell the Muslim's we hate them! Let's burn the Koran as some people in Florida I saw on the news are going to do September 11. Let's suddenly stand in front of the local mosque with picket signs. Let's show the fact that we love the country so much we want the terrorists to know we want a repeat of 9/11.

 

Because that's what I think the effect of this is going to be. Another 9/11, something worse even. Because I am sure Osama and Al Queda are watching.

Just because you saw some [bleep] on Fox give his messed up opinion on the country doesn't mean we're all like that. Saying that, you're no better than the people who oppose the building.

 

I'm not saying all of America is like that. I'm saying that a lot of America is like that. Did I specifically say everyone was like that? No. I'm just saying that despite the fact you may not have the opinion of the protestors they are still the ones in the limelight. The people for the mosque are only saying that all they feel is hatred and racism. And when you take that and show it to radicals in Islam, guess who is in trouble? Despite the fact there are people who accept others, this debacle right here shows that overall, the whole country hasn't matured to conform to the ideals it so loves to shove in everyone's face.

 

America has passed racism of blacks and asians though. Perhaps this is just another hurtle in our way toward becoming more accepting of people, just on a completely different scale and at a bad time. America, as a country, all together, is immature. And the most immature are the ones in the media, the ones spouting [cabbage] on TV. Ann Coulter for instance was on FOX a while ago spouting [cabbage] about how bad Muslims are. This is why America is so hated, because rational thought is lost in the media, repercussions are never thought of. The media as a whole is mostly the cause for this whole mess in the first place. Ever since the mosque's idea the media has talked about it day after day. If they had kept it under tabs, this would never have happened. It's both the media and the masses of people flocking to the cultural center (not a mosque mind you) to throw their hate.

 

And when I say "America" I'm not saying everyone is like this. It's the collective stance of the masses. My mom was just telling me this morning how every Muslim should be killed in public if need be to get rid of them. Showing we (not everyone, the collective) are no better than the radicals that read the Koran, follow the fact that everyone but Muslims are infidels and can be slaughtered like cattle with no repercussions. We are no better than the people strapping C4 to their backs to become martyrs and achieve the greatest death you can have. We are the same breed. We are no better, no worse. And thus, this shows that everyone is equal in this world, but opinion takes over and religion is the major opinion that takes the cake generally, and wars start, killings start.

 

And the sad fact is that most of these kids blowing themselves to bits in markets and subways were brainwashed since birth, maybe later, into doing this. The Koran was shoved down their throats. The Koran has not been updated in six, seven hundred years which is why Islam is not as up to date, why women are property and everything. But they cannot update it like Christianity. Thus this is another key factor into why they are the way they are.

 

Basically, the media showing this footage of people who hate Muslims, who want to burn the Koran, is putting us on the level of the people in Islam who hate the Christians, and want to burn the bible.

 

Once again, collectively America has people on both sides but as always, the media focuses on the negative and FOX is full of negative people. But this focus on the negative will bite everyone in the ass.

[Alg]

Before the whole "Islam is backwards" thing springs up, remember that we still use the Arabic number system.

I recall reading that the current brand of fundamentalist Islam dates back to the 1950s. Islam in the early days was actually more progressive than Christianity; Instead of [cabbage]ting themselves at the sight of the comet like those of us from Europe's ancestors would have, they studied it and came up with a lot of discoveries relating to astronomy.

The all-knowing Wiki explains all.

Seriously, they were sciencing up the place. Also math.

[Nero]

Going back to the general topic at hand, I want opponents to watch this video and tell me with a straight face that this is anything but hatred of Muslims, and racism:

Oh, at first I thought that was that protest in Denmark about some cartoon where they threatened to kill the artists. OWAIT.

 

:grin:

 

Before the whole "Islam is backwards" thing springs up, remember that we still use the Arabic number system.

I recall reading that the current brand of fundamentalist Islam dates back to the 1950s. Islam in the early days was actually more progressive than Christianity; Instead of [cabbage]ting themselves at the sight of the comet like those of us from Europe's ancestors would have, they studied it and came up with a lot of discoveries relating to astronomy.

The all-knowing Wiki explains all.

Seriously, they were sciencing up the place. Also math.

Yup. Then the Mongols zerged into the Arab world and burned Baghdad and burned everything in its libraries, thus sending Islam back 500 years.

[MirageOfDeath]

Before the whole "Islam is backwards" thing springs up, remember that we still use the Arabic number system.

Actually what we call the Arabic number system was invented in India by Hindus. The Arabs don't even use that system. Sorry for the off-topic'ness. :razz:

[Pirate_Felix]

Before the whole "Islam is backwards" thing springs up, remember that we still use the Arabic number system.

Actually what we call the Arabic number system was invented in India by Hindus. The Arabs don't even use that system. Sorry for the off-topic'ness. :razz:

Then why is called the Arabic-Hindu numeral system?

Right back on topic.

 

Protesting people are plain dumb. signs with: DONT DISHONER MY SONS GRAVE make me not take them seriously. Due to Bush's reaction to 9/11 muslims everywhere are now hated.

[i_love_burritos]

Before the whole "Islam is backwards" thing springs up, remember that we still use the Arabic number system.

Actually what we call the Arabic number system was invented in India by Hindus. The Arabs don't even use that system. Sorry for the off-topic'ness. :razz:

Then why is called the Arabic-Hindu numeral system?

 

Firstly, it's called the Hindu-Arabic numeral system, NOT the Arabic-Hindu numeral system.

 

Europeans stole all their stuff from the Arabs [science, astronomy, medicine] and failed to realize where they had gotten it from. [i.e. hindus, many Arab mathematicians, scientists had adopted the Hindu numeral system]. Actually, first devised, I think, sometime in 250BC.

[Pirate_Felix]

Before the whole "Islam is backwards" thing springs up, remember that we still use the Arabic number system.

Actually what we call the Arabic number system was invented in India by Hindus. The Arabs don't even use that system. Sorry for the off-topic'ness. :razz:

Then why is called the Arabic-Hindu numeral system?

 

Firstly, it's called the Hindu-Arabic numeral system, NOT the Arabic-Hindu numeral system.

 

Europeans stole all their stuff from the Arabs [science, astronomy, medicine] and failed to realize where they had gotten it from. [i.e. hindus, many Arab mathematicians, scientists had adopted the Hindu numeral system]. Actually, first devised, I think, sometime in 250BC.

K. Im quite sure the Arabs didnt invent peniciline, microscope, ECG, telescope and stuff. they stole their maths from arabs, not the other things.

[Spiffeh]

Oh, at first I thought that was that protest in Denmark about some cartoon where they threatened to kill the artists. OWAIT.

 

:grin:

So very clever, I guess bigotry is okay in your book then.

 

"a group of muslims was bigoted and stupid, this gives others the right to be bigots"

 

edit: Im probably putting words in your mouth, so sorry for that.

but pointing out bigotry from one group shouldn't downplay it from another.

[Zierro]

So very clever, I guess bigotry is okay in your book then.

 

I guess killing artists is okay in your book then. :roll:

[Spiffeh]

So very clever, I guess bigotry is okay in your book then.

 

I guess killing artists is okay in your book then. :roll:

 

Read my very next sentence where I say the muslims were bigoted and stupid.

[Zierro]

Read my very next sentence where I say the muslims were bigoted and stupid.

 

I have. Now you read in between the lines - I was pointing out the strawman you're making.

 

Dusty never said bigotry was alright. He's just saying if someone's going to threaten to murder somebody else over their religion, it's acceptable to get angry about that. It isn't the "muslim" aspect that set people off (therefore no racism or bigotry) - it's the fact that they threatened to kill someone. Would it be racist to oppose a black organization that robbed banks?

 

PS: I don't get the joke, Nicholas.

[Spiffeh]

I have. Now you read in between the lines - I was pointing out the strawman you're making.

 

Dusty never said bigotry was alright. He's just saying if you're going to threaten to murder somebody over your religion, it's acceptable to get angry about it. It isn't the "muslim" aspect that set people off (therefore no racism or bigotry) - it's the fact that they threatened to kill someone. Would it be racist to oppose a black organization that robbed banks?

I see it as he's downplaying the bigotry of the people in the magekillr's video by saying "hey look some muslims are bad too".

 

I guess it matters who he's talking about that was doing the protesting, I read it as muslims protesting.

which is why to me it seemed like he was saying "oh these people were bigots, well uh look over here, muslims can be bigots too"

 

and it seems most protests in Denmark related to the cartoon were those by people against the cartoons, not people protesting against those who were threatening the artists.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aSsFmISwXDEM&refer=europe

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7247817.stm

[i_love_burritos]

Before the whole "Islam is backwards" thing springs up, remember that we still use the Arabic number system.

Actually what we call the Arabic number system was invented in India by Hindus. The Arabs don't even use that system. Sorry for the off-topic'ness. :razz:

Then why is called the Arabic-Hindu numeral system?

 

Firstly, it's called the Hindu-Arabic numeral system, NOT the Arabic-Hindu numeral system.

 

Europeans stole all their stuff from the Arabs [science, astronomy, medicine] and failed to realize where they had gotten it from. [i.e. hindus, many Arab mathematicians, scientists had adopted the Hindu numeral system]. Actually, first devised, I think, sometime in 250BC.

K. Im quite sure the Arabs didnt invent peniciline, microscope, ECG, telescope and stuff. they stole their maths from arabs, not the other things.

 

I never said that. :wink: .

 

Europeans gained a better knowledge of those fields through the arabs. And yes, this was several hundred years before the discovery of penicillin, and invention of the micrscope, telescope, etc ...

[magekillr]

Investigators with the New York City Police Department say it all began Monday night when a 21-year-old man hailed a cab at 24th Street and Second Avenue in Manhattan.

 

Police say the passenger asked the driver, "Are you Muslim?" When the driver said yes the passenger pulled a knife and slashed him in the throat, arm and lip.

 

The 43-year-old driver was able to lock the passenger in the back of the cab and call 911.

 

Both the driver and the passenger were taken to Bellevue Hospital.

 

Cab Driver Stabbed By Passenger Who Asked "Are You Muslim?"

 

[Giordano]

Investigators with the New York City Police Department say it all began Monday night when a 21-year-old man hailed a cab at 24th Street and Second Avenue in Manhattan.

 

Police say the passenger asked the driver, "Are you Muslim?" When the driver said yes the passenger pulled a knife and slashed him in the throat, arm and lip.

 

The 43-year-old driver was able to lock the passenger in the back of the cab and call 911.

 

Both the driver and the passenger were taken to Bellevue Hospital.

 

Cab Driver Stabbed By Passenger Who Asked "Are You Muslim?"

 

That pretty much voids any argument of the Anglo-Saxons being holy peacemakers. If we still want to generalize, of course.

[OldJoe]

Investigators with the New York City Police Department say it all began Monday night when a 21-year-old man hailed a cab at 24th Street and Second Avenue in Manhattan.

 

Police say the passenger asked the driver, "Are you Muslim?" When the driver said yes the passenger pulled a knife and slashed him in the throat, arm and lip.

 

The 43-year-old driver was able to lock the passenger in the back of the cab and call 911.

 

Both the driver and the passenger were taken to Bellevue Hospital.

 

Cab Driver Stabbed By Passenger Who Asked "Are You Muslim?"

 

Oh for christ sake. Maniac attacks happens all the time.