Tip.it Times - 17th October 2010

[Owned_Nex]

1. Bots did not drive the price of sharks down. There were sharks bots since its inception. Why did the prices suddenly crash? Demand. Instead of Sharks you have Rocktails. If you want to PK, you used Rocktails. If you wanted to PvM, you used rocktails. Sharks are no longer the best, their prices will drop to a near Hp/GP ratio like all the other foods.

 

Stupid argument to begin with... It shows you barely read the article at all, as I never said sharks TODAY dropped 70%... It was at a time before Barrows and Slayer were released...

And in the end, prices stabilized. Same thing happened with dragon bones. I mean, if bots had begun to "rear their ugly head" by making price crash down for a while, are merch clans not guilty of the same thing? They force prices up then allow them to crash back down.

 

2. I disagree with Lie 1 completely. The supply from bots is not insecure at all. I estimate 80% of raw materials come out of bots. While bots do have some downtime with major updates, they spring back within HOURS. Look at soulwars, red chinchopas, or Ivy. Bots are always there. Updates WILL NOT stop bots. If bots were removed, raw materials will skyrocket. The vast majority of raw materials come from bots, after all, who REALLY wants to mine, woodcut, or hunt for weeks on end? A small group of people use the amount of red chinchompas it takes from 63-99 hunter. I guarantee you if bots were all removed, red chinchopas will, at the very least, double in price. The bots are the ones keeping the economy stable. Without them prices will shoot up.

 

So you agree that without bots prices would shoot up? Ok so the disagreement is not so complete? You say 80% of raw materials is bot-generated? Again not so far form what I have stated... Bots doing Ivy? What?!

Oh the logic in your text is somewhat flawed, but i'll try to decypher your main point... The only thing we seem to disagree on is the fact that YOU think bots will always be around to do the dirty work for us, while I think that bots are nowhere near undetectable... The fact that Jagex backs my statement up, sort of negates your argument entirely?

 

To clarify the Ivy reference, it is simply to show that bots will always be back in numbers. I could go on and on and list every single kind of bot I have met, but that is irrelevant. I do think bots will be around to do the dirty work for us. Do you REALLY have fun chopping 100k logs or catching30k chinchompas? Do you really want to do it? Is it fun? While bots are not undetectable, when one bot gets banned, two more are created. Look at Soul Wars as an example. Tons and tons of people were botting, tons and tons got banned. Look at it now. Do you see a difference in the amount of bots? Sure, you can ban bots, but no, my argument stands; there will never be a day where all the bots have gotten banned.

3. I also disagree with Lie 2. Unfortunately, Merchants do not simply amplify natural market fluctuations. They CREATE them. They buy massive stock before announcing the merch. Then those who paid money irl gets informed, and soon the random clan chat people. When the item is dumped, the random people get the now junked item. Although private merch clans may target a useful item, the vast majority do not. It isn't as much forcing you to buy at max price, it is removing the item from trade. You can't buy a merched item until they are dumped. This makes some items effectively junk, and others immensely expensive but useless.

 

Another clue to your reading abilities... I believed I tossed out the ethical and legal arguments even before starting to make my point... I believe I also said that I do not sympathise with stupid, uber-rich, or impatient people... This leaves us hardworking, anticipating, patient people none of which make the mistakes you described...

 

You didn't read what I said. I don't care about ethical and legal arguments. Did I say what they were doing was wrong or illegal? What I said was merchers are not simply "buying low and selling high." Maybe someone does this by themselves, but this is not what a merch clan does. A merch clan does not follow guidelines or the natural market flow. Merch clans buyout relatively unused and hard to obtain items like flowers, wild pies, granite maces, etc etc. These items are bought out and the "clan" is told to buy them. Once bought out and the price has risen tremendously, a pyramid begins. The top sell to the ones at the bottom. At the end of the day the ones at the bottom are left with useless junk. The example of Sara Brews doesn't work. While you could buy low and sell high and call yourself a mercher, this is not a merch clan. A single clan can't buy at slightly above mid to increase prices, and then sell it all instantly to happy people at a higher price. The whole merch clan thing is intertwined with RWT. Its a pyramid, and you pay to move up. Also, like I said about the sharks, merch clans are guilty of causing problems just as much as bots can. Instead of crashing something they raise it. Is making something cost 70% less really all that worse than making something cost 70% more?

 

On top of that you argue that merchants use items that are useless? Why would that bother anyone? Swing and a miss, mate...

 

Because it is a giant pyramid scheme. A lot of people are sucked in and have lost all their cash. They also affect things that become junk, not junk to start with. Seeds for example. Most notably curry tree seeds, which are fairly useful but not used too much, were forced up then to today's price. Some people, a small minority, needed these to level farming. Wild Pies. They weren't extensively used, but were still good. People who wanted the (at the time) fairly cheap range/slayer bonus would use them. which merch clans do not drastically cause changes, they negatively affect people even if you have never been affected.

 

4. Another disagree with Lie 4 XD. While the points outlined are valid, the end result is not true. While people *could* be doing other things, remember that most people are doing some sort of combat. Combat, except for the highest tiers of PvM, don't really affect the economy at all. Still, the number of these players pulled off of PvM is negligible. Consider the Dungoneering world. World 117 is almost always full, or nearly full. However, that is pretty much it. 95% of people doing Dungeoeering do it there. A small majority are those that do things that can really affect the economy. Looking at the bigger picture, you lose such a tiny tiny amount of people that it really does not matter. Also, while the graphs might show fluctuations, remember that correlation does not imply causation.

 

Have you been on worlds 77? 138? 148? There's others too...

On top of that, you mentioned that all points are valid, but then you say that "most people are doing combat" which goes directly against the point in my article... But ok... I thought the most plain argument was WAY too obvious that Dungeoneering does indeed have an impact on the economy, which is why I left it out... But using Chaotic weapons puts a 200k per hour dent in any money generated... Should also check out osme of the price graphs, particularly around the time that Dungeoneering came out...

 

I have been on those worlds. Most of the time there are a small handful of people. None of them can compare to W117. The "most people are doing combat" was taken out of context. A sentence or two later I mentioned this was the only way to really affect the economy. After all, "Until recently, the arguably best weapons and armour in the game came from the Godwars Dungeon. The best money maker involves hanging out for a while on PVP worlds and maybe killing a few other people there, and automatons do the Woodcutting and Fishing for the rest of us. " Those players...at the very top are the ones ones that can affect the economy by not going to GWD or Pking. A rune item drop won't do much to the economy, neither will a player catching 500 chinchompas. The amount of high levels doing these things have not changed much. GWD is full as usual, and PvP words are not barren. People arn't flocking over to Dung in numbers that can affect the economy.

 

Price dropping due to Dung also does not make sense. While there may be an increased amount of skillers, there are also tons of people who are out to "buy" a 99. For something like what you said to happen, there would need to be a massive amount of people getting their production skills up and dumping it into the GE compared to people "buying" skills. Furthermore, if you look at the graphs of what I believe to be the most important indexes (Food, Metal, and herb), they actually go up. Granted Logs and Runes went down...but I think people are going to want to be able to make melee armor rather than light a higher tier fire, or be able to catch and cook better fish rather than craft blood runes. But I digress. Correlation does not imply causation; not that there is any correlation anyways.

 

So, nice try, but plz read again :)

 

I'm sorry if I offended you by my "try". Maybe read what I say instead of telling me to reread or using thinly veiled personal attacks.

[Jonanananas]

1.you don't read what he said. In those times, it was clearly bots who drove the price of sharks down. You babble about Rocktails when it's clearly not the time he had meant. Also, "there were shark bots since its inception" is no argument. There is a slight difference between 1 and 1000000 bots. the number of bots increased, prices of sharks decreased.

 

 

2. I disagree with Lie 1 completely. The supply from bots is not insecure at all. I estimate 80% of raw materials come out of bots. While bots do have some downtime with major updates, they spring back within HOURS. Look at soulwars, red chinchopas, or Ivy. Bots are always there. Updates WILL NOT stop bots. If bots were removed, raw materials will skyrocket. The vast majority of raw materials come from bots, after all, who REALLY wants to mine, woodcut, or hunt for weeks on end? A small group of people use the amount of red chinchompas it takes from 63-99 hunter. I guarantee you if bots were all removed, red chinchopas will, at the very least, double in price. The bots are the ones keeping the economy stable. Without them prices will shoot up.

 

So you agree that without bots prices would shoot up? Ok so the disagreement is not so complete? You say 80% of raw materials is bot-generated? Again not so far form what I have stated... Bots doing Ivy? What?!

Oh the logic in your text is somewhat flawed, but i'll try to decypher your main point... The only thing we seem to disagree on is the fact that YOU think bots will always be around to do the dirty work for us, while I think that bots are nowhere near undetectable... The fact that Jagex backs my statement up, sort of negates your argument entirely?

 

To clarify the Ivy reference, it is simply to show that bots will always be back in numbers. I could go on and on and list every single kind of bot I have met, but that is irrelevant. I do think bots will be around to do the dirty work for us. Do you REALLY have fun chopping 100k logs or catching30k chinchompas? Do you really want to do it? Is it fun? While bots are not undetectable, when one bot gets banned, two more are created. Look at Soul Wars as an example. Tons and tons of people were botting, tons and tons got banned. Look at it now. Do you see a difference in the amount of bots? Sure, you can ban bots, but no, my argument stands; there will never be a day where all the bots have gotten banned.

 

2.of course we will always have bots, but they are nowhere near secure. We have soon a lot of bots being banned already, sometimes in raw masses, and this clearly influenced the economy. Once again, there is a difference between 1 and 1000000 bots.

 

 

3.again, you do not read. Yes, manipulation clans drive the price up, but he never said they didn't. may I quote for you? "What merchant clans do is take advantage of both artificial and natural price fluctuations. If the price of, for example, Saradomin Brews shoot up for whatever reason, odds are that a merchant has already bought an ample supply of it." and those who participate with merch clans and get ripped off fall under the category of "stupid".

may I quote for you? "The only people that would buy it at this peak price however, are the impatient, the rich and the stupid, none of which I have any sympathy for in this instance."

not exactly the same thing, but he clearly states he has no sympathy for stupid people, and I don't have either for that matter. It's their own fault.

 

 

 

 

4.of course correlation does not imply causation, but it is interesting that the common trade index behaves like this, and there are logical reasons why this is because of dungeoneering. Maybe you're just underestimating the effect.

[Owned_Nex]

1.you don't read what he said. In those times, it was clearly bots who drove the price of sharks down. You babble about Rocktails when it's clearly not the time he had meant. Also, "there were shark bots since its inception" is no argument. There is a slight difference between 1 and 1000000 bots. the number of bots increased, prices of sharks decreased.

 

Go back and read my response to his statement. You don't seem to understand what I meant.

 

2. I disagree with Lie 1 completely. The supply from bots is not insecure at all. I estimate 80% of raw materials come out of bots. While bots do have some downtime with major updates, they spring back within HOURS. Look at soulwars, red chinchopas, or Ivy. Bots are always there. Updates WILL NOT stop bots. If bots were removed, raw materials will skyrocket. The vast majority of raw materials come from bots, after all, who REALLY wants to mine, woodcut, or hunt for weeks on end? A small group of people use the amount of red chinchompas it takes from 63-99 hunter. I guarantee you if bots were all removed, red chinchopas will, at the very least, double in price. The bots are the ones keeping the economy stable. Without them prices will shoot up.

 

So you agree that without bots prices would shoot up? Ok so the disagreement is not so complete? You say 80% of raw materials is bot-generated? Again not so far form what I have stated... Bots doing Ivy? What?!

Oh the logic in your text is somewhat flawed, but i'll try to decypher your main point... The only thing we seem to disagree on is the fact that YOU think bots will always be around to do the dirty work for us, while I think that bots are nowhere near undetectable... The fact that Jagex backs my statement up, sort of negates your argument entirely?

 

To clarify the Ivy reference, it is simply to show that bots will always be back in numbers. I could go on and on and list every single kind of bot I have met, but that is irrelevant. I do think bots will be around to do the dirty work for us. Do you REALLY have fun chopping 100k logs or catching30k chinchompas? Do you really want to do it? Is it fun? While bots are not undetectable, when one bot gets banned, two more are created. Look at Soul Wars as an example. Tons and tons of people were botting, tons and tons got banned. Look at it now. Do you see a difference in the amount of bots? Sure, you can ban bots, but no, my argument stands; there will never be a day where all the bots have gotten banned.

 

2.of course we will always have bots, but they are nowhere near secure. We have soon a lot of bots being banned already, sometimes in raw masses, and this clearly influenced the economy. Once again, there is a difference between 1 and 1000000 bots.

 

There will be a secure number of bots. If you read further, I mentioned Soul Wars. If you are too lazy to read, essentially what happens is that when bots get banned, more are created. Sure, if there were 1000000 bots and only one was left there would be a massive spike in item prices, but understand that within a day that number will be back to 1000000, most likely more.

 

 

3.again, you do not read. Yes, manipulation clans drive the price up, but he never said they didn't. may I quote for you? "What merchant clans do is take advantage of both artificial and natural price fluctuations. If the price of, for example, Saradomin Brews shoot up for whatever reason, odds are that a merchant has already bought an ample supply of it." and those who participate with merch clans and get ripped off fall under the category of "stupid".

may I quote for you? "The only people that would buy it at this peak price however, are the impatient, the rich and the stupid, none of which I have any sympathy for in this instance."

not exactly the same thing, but he clearly states he has no sympathy for stupid people, and I don't have either for that matter. It's their own fault.

Sorry, but I'm not explaining this again. Please try to understand what I read, you look absolutely [developmentally delayed]ed, as you've managed to completely misunderstand everything I've said.

 

 

4.of course correlation does not imply causation, but it is interesting that the common trade index behaves like this, and there are logical reasons why this is because of dungeoneering. Maybe you're just underestimating the effect.

You can't take both sides of the argument. What do you mean the common trade index interesting? Its irregular to have a market is follow its trend and go up/down? You seem to think if the market goes up its due to Dung, and if it goes down its also due to Dung. No, its not logical(Ironically, you have not exactly provided some of your logic) to say that Dung has caused market shifts when the charts simply do not show a turning point or massive increase/decrease in price ; I'm not underestimating the effects, I am saying there are none. When the Halloween event came out, the index went down like the release of Dung. Its not reasonable to say that the Halloween event caused the market to go down. Likewise, you can't say Dung caused the market to go down. It looks like A->B, and its tempting to believe it, but look at Global Warming. Same issue.

[Sir_Kurity]

Dark bow has been around 1 mill for ages.

 

But thats the thing, its TECHNICALLY been the same price, but its actually gone down in price due to people making money more easily than before.

 

Remember when it was worth quite a few mill and that wasn't all that long ago. Plus you checked the 180 days on the G.E charts lately on it? Steady dip. How does making money more easily affect the price when the demand affects the price? According to 'inflation' it should have increased relatively in price. Demand has dropped as the bow's become more common.

 

How does making money more easily affect the price when the demand affects the price?

 

I'm saying that even with inflation, it wouldn't matter.

 

Inflation is inflation, but it also means people can get more out of there money, and means that even if something which is formerly 5 mill raises to 10 mill, if 10 mill is easier to get in this day and age, then people can and will buy it

 

Dark bow has had a STEADY dip, but is only a few hundred K less than it was a year or so ago. What has changed is the earning power of the average player, which makes dark bow almost a throwaway item despite the fact its price has been steady.

 

If everything raised by 10 times, it wouldn't matter because it means i would get 10 times more out of the drops i get, which in turn means that, relatively, the price on items are all the same. Except for store brought items like runes...

[Guest jrhairychest]

I'm saying that even with inflation, it wouldn't matter.

 

Inflation is inflation, but it also means people can get more out of there money, and means that even if something which is formerly 5 mill raises to 10 mill, if 10 mill is easier to get in this day and age, then people can and will buy it

 

Dark bow has had a STEADY dip, but is only a few hundred K less than it was a year or so ago. What has changed is the earning power of the average player, which makes dark bow almost a throwaway item despite the fact its price has been steady.

 

If everything raised by 10 times, it wouldn't matter because it means i would get 10 times more out of the drops i get, which in turn means that, relatively, the price on items are all the same. Except for store brought items like runes...

 

The relative price of the dbow still does not indicate inflation, more of a slightly less than steady demand for that item but not enough to make demand > supply otherwise it'd increase not decrease as it has done. It is not rising relative to the supposed earnings of players but the fact that many people now have a dbow and its bubble has burst.

[Sir_Kurity]

The relative price of the dbow still does not indicate inflation, more of a slightly less than steady demand for that item but not enough to make demand > supply otherwise it'd increase not decrease as it has done. It is not rising relative to the supposed earnings of players but the fact that many people now have a dbow and its bubble has burst.

 

I never said it indicates inflation... I just said that its an example of why inflation doesn't matter.

 

Its the same price as it has always been, but is now more accessible than ever. Because the relative price of other objects as risen, thus making it easier to afford such a weapon.

 

The only problem is the stagnation of raw material prices in comparison to weapon prices, which make skills all the crappier for moneymaking.

[Guest jrhairychest]

I never said it indicates inflation... I just said that its an example of why inflation doesn't matter.

 

Its the same price as it has always been, but is now more accessible than ever. Because the relative price of other objects as risen, thus making it easier to afford such a weapon.

 

The only problem is the stagnation of raw material prices in comparison to weapon prices, which make skills all the crappier for moneymaking.

 

I would agree that inflation doesn't matter. I keep the view that things stay relative to how much players will pay as I've explained previously.

 

I disagree that the bow has always been this price. It hasn't. For a while you'd pay quite a few mill for a dbow and its easy to afford such a weapon now because of commonality. The prices of other objects doesn't make it a cheap weapon but rather the demand for the weapon has decreased. If what you said is true the bow would still be a high price because of its demand and the price would certainly not be dropping as we have seen. There are more factors at play here than just someone being able to afford a dbow at it's current price, such as how many more people want one and how ample the supply is.

 

I would agree that there is some stagnation of raw material prices but as far as making money from these depends on your methods and how patient you are. I'll bet there are a few who are banking that raw material prices will go up in the near future.

[Sir_Kurity]

I disagree that the bow has always been this price. It hasn't. For a while you'd pay quite a few mill for a dbow and its easy to afford such a weapon now because of commonality.

 

Actually for the past year, or even two, its been around the 800k-1.2 mill mark. Though only recently (since i got back into this game), have i been willing to risk dark bows in PVP. Simply because money is easier to get now, while a couple of years ago 1-2 mill would take me a couple of days, maybe even a week to get back.

 

If what you said is true the bow would still be a high price because of its demand and the price would certainly not be dropping as we have seen.

 

What do you think i said?

 

I said d bow has technically gone down while still technically being the same price. I never said the bow would rise to a higher price.

 

There are more factors at play here than just someone being able to afford a dbow at it's current price, such as how many more people want one and how ample the supply is.

 

When did i say otherwise? I think youve totally misunderstood half my posts. What exactly are you trying to say here?

 

-------------------------------------------

 

What im saying is that inflation isnt a problem. If the market suddenly rose and most items doubled or even tripled in price, not much would happen.

 

People wouldn't suddenly throw up there fists and protest the injustice of weapons being so expensive. The price of the weapons would, in turn, mean other money making methods would also increase in efficiency, thus making the weapons more affordable.

[Guest jrhairychest]

Actually for the past year, or even two, its been around the 800k-1.2 mill mark. Though only recently (since i got back into this game), have i been willing to risk dark bows in PVP. Simply because money is easier to get now, while a couple of years ago 1-2 mill would take me a couple of days, maybe even a week to get back.

Then for you this is not a problem but some players may disagree depending on their earning potential and what they see as acceptable risk. The point I am making is that you view it as acceptable because you have better money making potiential, wheras I view it as a cheap weapon where demand for it has fallen or it is in over-supply. I also remember dbows chaning hands for higher values for a good period of time before that.

 

What do you think i said?

 

I said d bow has technically gone down while still technically being the same price. I never said the bow would rise to a higher price.

 

Ok, got wires crossed on that sorry. I thought we were trying to discuss inflation as it's part of the original thread.

 

When did i say otherwise? I think youve totally misunderstood half my posts. What exactly are you trying to say here?

Your own personal viewpoint is that the dbow is a good risk because you can make the money for an easy replacement. Originally we were discussing inflation and how items like the dbow haven't actually gone up in terms of relative earnings, assuming players are making more money than they once did (debatable point in itself).

[Sir_Kurity]

When did i say otherwise? I think youve totally misunderstood half my posts. What exactly are you trying to say here?

Your own personal viewpoint is that the dbow is a good risk because you can make the money for an easy replacement. Originally we were discussing inflation and how items like the dbow haven't actually gone up in terms of relative earnings, assuming players are making more money than they once did (debatable point in itself).

 

Well d bow hasent gone up in relative earnings because of lack of demand. Thats what ive been saying all along, its been going down in price.

 

Abby whip on the other hand has, being ~1 mill a year or so ago and being 3+ mill now if im not mistaken. With demand staying relativly the same. Infact, if anything, with dungeoneering whip should have gone down, but its still "Rised" in price.

 

Then for you this is not a problem but some players may disagree depending on their earning potential and what they see as acceptable risk. The point I am making is that you view it as acceptable because you have better money making potiential, wheras I view it as a cheap weapon where demand for it has fallen or it is in over-supply. I also remember dbows chaning hands for higher values for a good period of time before that.

 

Yea, demand has fallen, its worth less, despite it being technically the same price.

 

And yes, its been around the 1 mill mark for years. Aside from the occational spike most things have.

 

you have better money making potiential

 

Money making in general has gone up. Aside from aforementioned raw material prices.

 

Theres people who can make ~4 mill an hour, a few years ago even 1 mill consistently per hour was considered great.

[Guest jrhairychest]

Well d bow hasent gone up in relative earnings because of lack of demand. Thats what ive been saying all along, its been going down in price.

 

Abby whip on the other hand has, being ~1 mill a year or so ago and being 3+ mill now if im not mistaken. With demand staying relativly the same. Infact, if anything, with dungeoneering whip should have gone down, but its still "Rised" in price.

 

For the first point, what causes prices to rise and fall in the G.E?

 

Correct the whip hasn't seen a price dip as other items such as godswords. However the whip is a decent weapon that can be weilded by anyone with the relevant stats and isn't too expensive so the bulk of the population feed the demand, not just a select few at the top. The demand for whips is still there, however (speculation) there may be less people obtaining them due to doing dungeoneering so demand>supply. I also don't recall those using chaotic weps dumping the whip but using it sparingly for certain tasks where it may be too expensive otherwise.

 

Yea, demand has fallen, its worth less, despite it being technically the same price.

 

And yes, its been around the 1 mill mark for years. Aside from the occational spike most things have.

Its only been out for bout 2 years, wasn't always 1 mill, and I agree that things spike. However I don't see this item peaking, just going on a downward trend. This does not indicate demand for this item.

 

Money making in general has gone up. Aside from aforementioned raw material prices.

 

Theres people who can make ~4 mill an hour, a few years ago even 1 mill consistently per hour was considered great.

You could be right on the issue of money making gone up. However, if this is true its down to the select few who can make that sort of money. The funny thing is the same people who are making such claims seem to make an extraordinary amount of posts on here instead of playing the game and making it. 'Could' isn't the same as 'am'.

[Sir_Kurity]

Correct the whip hasn't seen a price dip as other items such as godswords. However the whip is a decent weapon that can be weilded by anyone with the relevant stats and isn't too expensive so the bulk of the population feed the demand, not just a select few at the top. The demand for whips is still there, however (speculation) there may be less people obtaining them due to doing dungeoneering so demand>supply. I also don't recall those using chaotic weps dumping the whip but using it sparingly for certain tasks where it may be too expensive otherwise.

 

Everyone with a chaotic weapon pretty much has no reason to use whip.

 

Its only what, 200k an hour? Its miniscule compared to time saved due to accuracy and strength of rapier.

 

Its only been out for bout 2 years, wasn't always 1 mill, and I agree that things spike. However I don't see this item peaking, just going on a downward trend. This does not indicate demand for this item.

 

I never said it peaked nor does it have demand. o.O

 

You could be right on the issue of money making gone up. However, if this is true its down to the select few who can make that sort of money. The funny thing is the same people who are making such claims seem to make an extraordinary amount of posts on here instead of playing the game and making it. 'Could' isn't the same as 'am'.

 

Thats why i said stagnation in raw material prices IS a problem.

 

But generally speaking, its easier to get money. Hunting green dragons for example (which was always a decent money making method) gives much more than it did before.

[Guest jrhairychest]

 

Everyone with a chaotic weapon pretty much has no reason to use whip.

 

Its only what, 200k an hour? Its miniscule compared to time saved due to accuracy and strength of rapier.

Just depends on what you use it for. Not every task requires such a weapon and not every task is cost effective enough to warrant permanently using it.

 

I never said it peaked nor does it have demand. o.O

My point was that its cheap because it's reached a saturation point of who wants it.

 

 

Thats why i said stagnation in raw material prices IS a problem.

 

But generally speaking, its easier to get money. Hunting green dragons for example (which was always a decent money making method) gives much more than it did before.

Stagnation isn't a problem IMO. It'll kick off again once the dungeoneering bubble bursts and demand picks up again. Skills haven't disappeared off the face of the planet yet. Some might even take advantage of some of the low prices and profit later with a bit of patience.

 

On the making money subject, again I'll state you could possibly be right. However combat is not everyones preferred method of doing it. I'm quite happy to plod along and go completely against those who measure their xp by the hour and make some here and there happily skilling away. In regards to the main topic I still don't see huge inflation rises because of this.

[Assume Nothing]

 

Everyone with a chaotic weapon pretty much has no reason to use whip.

 

Its only what, 200k an hour? Its miniscule compared to time saved due to accuracy and strength of rapier.

Just depends on what you use it for. Not every task requires such a weapon and not every task is cost effective enough to warrant permanently using it.

 

I never said it peaked nor does it have demand. o.O

My point was that its cheap because it's reached a saturation point of who wants it.

 

 

Thats why i said stagnation in raw material prices IS a problem.

 

But generally speaking, its easier to get money. Hunting green dragons for example (which was always a decent money making method) gives much more than it did before.

Stagnation isn't a problem IMO. It'll kick off again once the dungeoneering bubble bursts and demand picks up again. Skills haven't disappeared off the face of the planet yet. Some might even take advantage of some of the low prices and profit later with a bit of patience.

 

On the making money subject, again I'll state you could possibly be right. However combat is not everyones preferred method of doing it. I'm quite happy to plod along and go completely against those who measure their xp by the hour and make some here and there happily skilling away. In regards to the main topic I still don't see huge inflation rises because of this.

 

Fix your quote tags, looks like you're arguing against yourself.

 

Seeing that I don't know what you guys are talking about, I have no comment on the little debate. I agree that not every situation, a chaotic weapon is needed or even wanted. But most of the time, it is.

[Guest jrhairychest]

Fix your quote tags, looks like you're arguing against yourself.

 

Seeing that I don't know what you guys are talking about, I have no comment on the little debate. I agree that not every situation, a chaotic weapon is needed or even wanted. But most of the time, it is.

 

Heh cheers :thumbup:

[Sir_Kurity]

Just depends on what you use it for. Not every task requires such a weapon and not every task is cost effective enough to warrant permanently using it.

 

My time is more important to me than the minor price involved with using a chaotic.

 

My point was that its cheap because it's reached a saturation point of who wants it.

 

And i never contested otherwise o.O

 

Stagnation isn't a problem IMO. It'll kick off again once the dungeoneering bubble bursts and demand picks up again.

 

Dungeoneering has been out for AGES, and it holds some of the best weapons and items in the game that end up benifiting almost every skill or activity.

 

Skills haven't disappeared off the face of the planet yet.

 

Never said they have, just said theres been stagnation.

 

On the making money subject, again I'll state you could possibly be right. However combat is not everyones preferred method of doing it. I'm quite happy to plod along and go completely against those who measure their xp by the hour and make some here and there happily skilling away. In regards to the main topic I still don't see huge inflation rises because of this.

 

Outside combat, theres skilling, and skilling is effected by stagnation of raw material prices due to bots and other factors. I mean look at runecrafting...

[Guest jrhairychest]

My time is more important to me than the minor price involved with using a chaotic.

 

Do you use one? I would also disagree that everyone has this thought process. Not every task requires such a weapon.

 

And i never contested otherwise o.O

I thought your point was that the price is the way it is because of player spending power?

 

Dungeoneering has been out for AGES, and it holds some of the best weapons and items in the game that end up benifiting almost every skill or activity.

Lets be realistic it hasn't even been out for a year. Agreed some things will benefit other skills. My point is other skills won't be left to rot as combat and dung aren't the be all and end all of RS.

 

Never said they have, just said theres been stagnation.

Sooooo...whats your point?

 

Outside combat, theres skilling, and skilling is effected by stagnation of raw material prices due to bots and other factors. I mean look at runecrafting...

Theres money to be made in the right places if you look carefully enough.

What about RC?

[Assume Nothing]

My time is more important to me than the minor price involved with using a chaotic.

 

Do you use one? I would also disagree that everyone has this thought process. Not every task requires such a weapon.

 

And i never contested otherwise o.O

I thought your point was that the price is the way it is because of player spending power?

 

Dungeoneering has been out for AGES, and it holds some of the best weapons and items in the game that end up benifiting almost every skill or activity.

Lets be realistic it hasn't even been out for a year. Agreed some things will benefit other skills. My point is other skills won't be left to rot as combat and dung aren't the be all and end all of RS.

 

Never said they have, just said theres been stagnation.

Sooooo...whats your point?

 

Outside combat, theres skilling, and skilling is effected by stagnation of raw material prices due to bots and other factors. I mean look at runecrafting...

Theres money to be made in the right places if you look carefully enough.

What about RC?

RuneCrafting went from being one of the best moneymakers in the game to one of the worst moneymakers in the game. It went from GWD income to Green Dragons income.

[Guest jrhairychest]

RuneCrafting went from being one of the best moneymakers in the game to one of the worst moneymakers in the game. It went from GWD income to Green Dragons income.

 

You're talking about crafting nature's I assume? If so, I agree with that. I see hardly anyone alcing these days and very few superheating, most using the forge at Edgy instead. There's still cash to be made in the other runes if someone wants (bloods, deaths, laws) so its not a loss making exercise. Ironically, I also see godsword prices have been dropping heavily too.

[Sir_Kurity]

Do you use one? I would also disagree that everyone has this thought process. Not every task requires such a weapon.

 

Of course i don't use one, but if i had one....

 

I thought your point was that the price is the way it is because of player spending power?

 

No, my point was that its been going down in relative price for a long time now.

 

Sooooo...whats your point?

 

You answered your own question.

 

Theres money to be made in the right places if you look carefully enough.

What about RC?

 

What about RC? Have you see nature rune prices recently?

 

And this is just one skill out of many.

[Ts_Stormrage]

So what is the final conclusion?

 

Since removing alching is not a likely option; inflation can be good if bots are not there to destroy the viability of other skills?

[Guest jrhairychest]

Of course i don't use one, but if i had one....

In that case wait and see.

 

No, my point was that its been going down in relative price for a long time now.

Relative to what exactly?

 

You answered your own question.

:-s

 

What about RC? Have you see nature rune prices recently?

 

And this is just one skill out of many.

Already answered that above on Not_trolling's post.

 

So what is the final conclusion?

 

Since removing alching is not a likely option; inflation can be good if bots are not there to destroy the viability of other skills?

I don't see people alcing much these days. Until the dungeoneering bubble bursts its difficult to see if inflation is that much of an issue as there's a lack of demand on most stuff atm.

[Sir_Kurity]

In that case wait and see.

 

Theres no need to wait and see, i know 200k an hour is nothing for me, and i also know rapier is better than whip.

 

Relative to what exactly?

 

Relative to the rate of inflation...

 

:-s

 

:mellow:

 

Already answered that above on Not_trolling's post.

 

As far as i can tell, bloods and deaths are still around the 700-800k mark. Which is pretty pitiful when its been that way for years and even things like thieving can get the same amount of money.

 

With stores which provide a good supply of runes into this game, i don't see runecraftings profits increasing much unless Pess drops, or store's are further limited in stock.

[Guest jrhairychest]

Theres no need to wait and see, i know 200k an hour is nothing for me, and i also know rapier is better than whip.

What weapon are you using at the moment?

 

 

Relative to the rate of inflation...

So what is the items actual value if you discount inflation?

 

As far as i can tell, bloods and deaths are still around the 700-800k mark. Which is pretty pitiful when its been that way for years and even things like thieving can get the same amount of money.

 

With stores which provide a good supply of runes into this game, i don't see runecraftings profits increasing much unless Pess drops, or store's are further limited in stock.

So, apart from natures nothing's really changed and to anyone below 91rc it's of little consequence. It's also a little more real than the 'could get 4m/h' debate elsewhere. Out of curiosity how do you make your cash?

[Obtaurian]

So, apart from natures nothing's really changed and to anyone below 91rc it's of little consequence. It's also a little more real than the 'could get 4m/h' debate elsewhere. Out of curiosity how do you make your cash?

 

You're still upset that people make 4m/h?