Tip.it Times - 17th October 2010

[Sir_Kurity]

So what is the items actual value if you discount inflation?

 

500k, maybe less i would think. Its hard to tell because of uneven inflation. But keep in mind that at a certain point dark bow was only slightly cheaper than abby whip, and abby whip is now over 3 mill.

 

So, apart from natures nothing's really changed and to anyone below 91rc it's of little consequence. It's also a little more real than the 'could get 4m/h' debate elsewhere. Out of curiosity how do you make your cash?

 

At the moment im f2p, and all i do is merch.

 

When im member i do regular farm runs while merching, I'm also trying to get into daily runs (1.5 mill in 45 minutes, better than 99 RC in my book). Leaves me alot of time for the copious amount of quests i have to do for ancient curses and the like.

[Guest jrhairychest]

You're still upset that people make 4m/h?

When was I upset? I thought it was pretty funny. As you've said before, could is different than do. Did you say you make yours killing frosties?

 

 

500k, maybe less i would think. Its hard to tell because of uneven inflation. But keep in mind that at a certain point dark bow was only slightly cheaper than abby whip, and abby whip is now over 3 mill.

Where did you get this figure of 500k from?

 

At the moment im f2p, and all i do is merch.

 

When im member i do regular farm runs while merching, I'm also trying to get into daily runs (1.5 mill in 45 minutes, better than 99 RC in my book). Leaves me alot of time for the copious amount of quests i have to do for ancient curses and the like.

Rather you than me on the merch. Farming runs are agreeable on the cash front provided that the demand is there, however they won't raise skills like RC which is where we differ in our interests. As far as I'm concerned if I went back to RC as long as I'm not losing anything then I'm happy with it even with a nominal profit.

 

What weapon are you using in members again?

[Obtaurian]

You're still upset that people make 4m/h?

When was I upset? I thought it was pretty funny. As you've said before, could is different than do. Did you say you make yours killing frosties?

 

Indeed it is, and elite players 'do'. I make money killing TDs primarily. Actually, I'm F2P as of yesterday, so right now I'm pretty much idle.

[Sir_Kurity]

Where did you get this figure of 500k from?

 

My justification was right there.

 

I can do naught but guess, but comparing the price to abby whip has given me the end result of 500k

 

Rather you than me on the merch.

 

???

 

Ive never made a significant loss merching.

 

Farming runs are agreeable on the cash front provided that the demand is there

 

Applies to runes just as much as it does to herbs. I'll have you know ive never had trouble selling herbs though, even the seemingly useless things like oranges sell with ease.

 

however they won't raise skills like RC which is where we differ in our interests. As far as I'm concerned if I went back to RC as long as I'm not losing anything then I'm happy with it even with a nominal profit.

 

Be happy i guess, but runecrafting is pretty crap money, once a great skill, now its sorta meh.

 

Doing dailys combined with farming takes far less effort to get than say 80-90 runecrafting, while at the same time providing more money.

 

What weapon are you using in members again?

 

As a pure i use brine sabre for melee (soon to be D'Scim), and rune xbow (trying to get broad bolts and/or crystal bow) for ranged.

[Guest jrhairychest]

Indeed it is, and elite players 'do'. I make money killing TDs primarily. Actually, I'm F2P as of yesterday, so right now I'm pretty much idle.

Eliite? We are playing RS here. C'mon now it's not the most challenging game in the world other than spending time on it.

 

How does that work with your 81 dung with frosties? What drops from TD's give you this supposed earning power?

 

My justification was right there.

 

I can do naught but guess, but comparing the price to abby whip has given me the end result of 500k

 

That's all it is though, a guess at best, which anyone can pluck from the air. It's true price is the price that it is at not a comparison between the two items, one in demand, one not.

 

 

???

 

Ive never made a significant loss merching.

Its not what I'd personally spend playing a game doing but if it makes you happy it makes you happy.

Never said you made losses.

 

Applies to runes just as much as it does to herbs. I'll have you know ive never had trouble selling herbs though, even the seemingly useless things like oranges sell with ease.

Never said you did have trouble.

 

Be happy i guess, but runecrafting is pretty crap money, once a great skill, now its sorta meh.

 

Doing dailys combined with farming takes far less effort to get than say 80-90 runecrafting, while at the same time providing more money.

 

It might be crap money if someone is desperate for money I spose and farming won't help anyone's RC level, which is why some do it, including myself . But if it makes you happy then good for you. What do you farm to earn what you state (herbs etc.)?

 

As a pure i use brine sabre for melee (soon to be D'Scim), and rune xbow (trying to get broad bolts and/or crystal bow) for ranged.

So you've never used a whip?

[Bladewing]

Indeed it is, and elite players 'do'. I make money killing TDs primarily. Actually, I'm F2P as of yesterday, so right now I'm pretty much idle.

Eliite? We are playing RS here. C'mon now it's not the most challenging game in the world other than spending time on it.

 

How does that work with your 81 dung with frosties? What drops from TD's give you this supposed earning power?

 

dragon claws and dragon armour pieces

 

oh and btw killing tds for effigies is faster rc xp/h than zmi if you can open the effigies.

[Obtaurian]

Indeed it is, and elite players 'do'. I make money killing TDs primarily. Actually, I'm F2P as of yesterday, so right now I'm pretty much idle.

Eliite? We are playing RS here. C'mon now it's not the most challenging game in the world other than spending time on it.

 

How does that work with your 81 dung with frosties? What drops from TD's give you this supposed earning power?

 

dragon claws and dragon armour pieces

 

oh and btw killing tds for effigies is faster rc xp/h than zmi if you can open the effigies.

 

This, and I never once said that I could camp frost dragons. I don't know why you brought that up, jrhairychest.

[Assume Nothing]

Indeed it is, and elite players 'do'. I make money killing TDs primarily. Actually, I'm F2P as of yesterday, so right now I'm pretty much idle.

Eliite? We are playing RS here. C'mon now it's not the most challenging game in the world other than spending time on it.

 

How does that work with your 81 dung with frosties? What drops from TD's give you this supposed earning power?

 

dragon claws and dragon armour pieces

 

oh and btw killing tds for effigies is faster rc xp/h than zmi if you can open the effigies.

 

This, and I never once said that I could camp frost dragons. I don't know why you brought that up, jrhairychest.

 

People that simply cannot make that kind of money will make illogical assumptions and reasons.

 

I forgot what this topic is about, gotta edit this post later to unspam.

 

EDIT - What do you guys think about Inflation? I still think Inflation > Deflation

[Guest jrhairychest]

dragon claws and dragon armour pieces

 

oh and btw killing tds for effigies is faster rc xp/h than zmi if you can open the effigies.

 

Nice one. Are claws and pieces a frequent drop or are the 4m/ph calculations done over time? Last time I asked it was frosties that was the money earner.

 

Effigies are very nice but most don't have the RC for it anyway and I'd rather not waste enough time in banks begging. Id rather have the skill level to do the effigy myself to make it worthwhile.

 

 

This, and I never once said that I could camp frost dragons. I don't know why you brought that up, jrhairychest.

 

I asked and you didn't deny it. And how did I guess that you wouldn't be alone in your replies :razz:

 

 

People that simply cannot make that kind of money will make illogical assumptions and reasons.

 

I forgot what this topic is about, gotta edit this post later to unspam.

 

EDIT - What do you guys think about Inflation? I still think Inflation > Deflation

 

Is that why players are spending most of their time posting on here saying they earn it instead of actually earning it? Its relevant to the point of inflation too. If there is that type of cash being being made in the game then its bound to have some impact on prices, but unfortunately everything's a bit of a blur with dung.

[Obtaurian]

DKs and TDs are the best moneymakers. Frosts are close, but are far easier and more consistent (though DKs are incredibly consistent, too). I don't know much about solo Arma, but it's up there. Solo Bandos isn't really worth mentioning due to competition.

 

TDs have a very high drop rate for claws, shards, and effigies. Whereas profit from solo Arma can vary wildly, TDs are more predictable.

 

I asked and you didn't deny it. And how did I guess that you wouldn't be alone in your replies

 

You took a guess at how I make my money. I corrected you and answered TDs. You brought up frost dragons again for some reason.

 

EDIT: You always seem to become very upset when more than one person disagrees with you. Why?

[Bladewing]

dragon claws and dragon armour pieces

 

oh and btw killing tds for effigies is faster rc xp/h than zmi if you can open the effigies.

 

Nice one. Are claws and pieces a frequent drop or are the 4m/ph calculations done over time? Last time I asked it was frosties that was the money earner.

 

Effigies are very nice but most don't have the RC for it anyway and I'd rather not waste enough time in banks begging. Id rather have the skill level to do the effigy myself to make it worthwhile.

claws have about a .3% chance of dropping each demon you kil. the profit figure is determined by an average expected return. this is where you add up all the drops you would get over several hours. in this case, about 2 claws and 1 armour piece in 600 kills, which for me means about 12-13 hours. 2x claws + 1x armour = 57m, divided by 13 hours = 4.3m an hour average expected return.

 

Is that why players are spending most of their time posting on here saying they earn it instead of actually earning it? Its relevant to the point of inflation too. If there is that type of cash being being made in the game then its bound to have some impact on prices, but unfortunately everything's a bit of a blur with dung.

you say that like people can't solo dagannoth kings and post at the same time

 

(i can, by the way)

[Guest jrhairychest]

DKs and TDs are the best moneymakers. Frosts are close, but are far easier and more consistent (though DKs are incredibly consistent, too). I don't know much about solo Arma, but it's up there. Solo Bandos isn't really worth mentioning due to competition.

 

TDs have a very high drop rate for claws, shards, and effigies. Whereas profit from solo Arma can vary wildly, TDs are more predictable.

 

 

claws have about a 3% chance of dropping each demon you kil. the profit figure is determined by an average expected return. this is where you add up all the drops you would get over several hours. in this case, about 2 claws and 1 armour piece in 600 kills, which for me means about 12-13 hours. 2x claws + 1x armour = 57m, divided by 13 hours = 4.3m an hour average expected return.

 

Probably easier to answer both at once here. Its not an absolute science is it? You're basing your calculations on the certainty that drops will occur within specified time periods. Someone could go down there and not obtain the drops at all. After all, if the drop rates were so consistent then prices of claws wouldn't be as high as they are as there'd be more in supply. As Ob says Frosts/Dk's are more consistent. Even so, there's still the elements of competition which further impedes on your measurements. If the earning potential is so good for such short spaces of time then it increases the competition further, no matter what you're killing.

 

You took a guess at how I make my money. I corrected you and answered TDs. You brought up frost dragons again for some reason.

 

EDIT: You always seem to become very upset when more than one person disagrees with you. Why?

 

I saw no correction or denial from you. I just wanted to ask you directly about it :wink:

 

Upset? On the contrary this is what debate is about. I'm amused my prediction came true. Where there's one the others gladly follow, like sheep really.

 

you say that like people can't solo dagannoth kings and post at the same time

 

(i can, by the way)

 

Very good. Be sure to tell all those pro-games out there how 'elite' you are because you can AFK =D>

[Bladewing]

^ i'd recommend you look up, again, the definition of mean

 

obviously something that relies on an uncommon drop for the majority of the profit will have a higher variance (which again you should look up) than something which has more frequent and less valuable drops. i never claimed that every 300 kills you get a pair of dragon claws. in fact my first sentence was:

claws have about a .3% chance of dropping each demon you kill.

also, for each person who only gets one pair of claws in 600 kills, there's another who gets 3 in 600. (the probability distributions for number of drops in a fixed number of n kills tends to be normal if n is large enough.)

 

 

it is rather irritating for someone as yourself with little to no understanding of basic statistics to disparage a perfectly true statement due to his or her ignorance.

[Assume Nothing]

^ i'd recommend you look up, again, the definition of mean

 

obviously something that relies on an uncommon drop for the majority of the profit will have a higher variance (which again you should look up) than something which has more frequent and less valuable drops. i never claimed that every 300 kills you get a pair of dragon claws. in fact my first sentence was:

claws have about a 3% chance of dropping each demon you kill.

also, for each person who only gets one pair of claws in 600 kills, there's another who gets 3 in 600. (the probability distributions for number of drops in a fixed number of n kills tends to be normal if n is large enough.)

 

 

it is rather irritating for someone as yourself with little to no understanding of basic statistics to disparage a perfectly true statement due to his or her ignorance.

 

>implying that females exist on the internet. Hahahaohwow.jpg

 

Not directed at String; Resorting to trolling also tells us that you lack a logical argument, and have nothing left to say but the butthurt remark "Lol u make 4m/h yh rite"

 

On Topic; Following the argument, it seems that ignorant people don't seem to understand statistics. Ofcourse there is scenarios where "One could kill a million Tormented Demons and get no drops", but the chances of that is extremely unlikely. 4m/h is an average figure, another thing players don't understand, it doesn't mean playing for half an hour would obtain 2 million gold pieces.

 

By the way, it's 0.3%, not 3%, if you mean 1/300

[Ts_Stormrage]

So is this the longest thread ever from a Times article? :D

[PereGrin]

Maybe longest lasting. I though several beat it in total pages of discussion though.

[Sir_Kurity]

Its not what I'd personally spend playing a game doing but if it makes you happy it makes you happy.

Never said you made losses.

 

2 minutes of merching makes the rest of my time on runescape both easier and funner. No reason not to do it if you know how to merch.

 

Plus, f2p sucks anyway so isnt even worth my time to play for real.

 

It might be crap money if someone is desperate for money I spose and farming won't help anyone's RC level, which is why some do it, including myself.

 

So, RC won't help anyones farming or any other level. So this is an irrelevant point.

 

What do you farm to earn what you state (herbs etc.)?

 

With 3 herb runs a day (before school, after school, and before bed) its about ~400k a day with 5 minutes each run, on weekends its 4 herb runs a day, the rest of it is made with rune runs (runes are cheaper in store than they are in GE).

 

Haven't finished questing myself up to the 1.4 mill mark, but it shouldn't take long now :thumbup:, and it definately takes less time than getting 91 RC.

 

As a pure i use brine sabre for melee (soon to be D'Scim), and rune xbow (trying to get broad bolts and/or crystal bow) for ranged.

So you've never used a whip?

Hell no. o.O

 

Why are you interrogating me on my methods again, are you trying to prove a point?

[Guest jrhairychest]

^ i'd recommend you look up, again, the definition of mean

 

obviously something that relies on an uncommon drop for the majority of the profit will have a higher variance (which again you should look up) than something which has more frequent and less valuable drops. i never claimed that every 300 kills you get a pair of dragon claws. in fact my first sentence was:

claws have about a 3% chance of dropping each demon you kill.

also, for each person who only gets one pair of claws in 600 kills, there's another who gets 3 in 600. (the probability distributions for number of drops in a fixed number of n kills tends to be normal if n is large enough.)

 

 

it is rather irritating for someone as yourself with little to no understanding of basic statistics to disparage a perfectly true statement due to his or her ignorance.

 

Hilarious. A guy who lectures me on stats gets his decimal places mixed up. Soooo.......3% or 0.3%?

 

You're also still assuming that those drops would actually happen. Its random so there's no guarantees that 1,2 5 or more players would get it in any x amount of kills. Quoting me all the meaningless stats in the world isn't going to change that so spare me the lecture.

 

>implying that females exist on the internet. Hahahaohwow.jpg

 

Not directed at String; Resorting to trolling also tells us that you lack a logical argument, and have nothing left to say but the butthurt remark "Lol u make 4m/h yh rite"

 

Please feel free to do the usual kiddie troll calling if I'm cutting through the usual bull from this flock.

 

On Topic; Following the argument, it seems that ignorant people don't seem to understand statistics. Ofcourse there is scenarios where "One could kill a million Tormented Demons and get no drops", but the chances of that is extremely unlikely. 4m/h is an average figure, another thing players don't understand, it doesn't mean playing for half an hour would obtain 2 million gold pieces.

 

By the way, it's 0.3%, not 3%, if you mean 1/300

 

Extremely unlikely? So there's every possible chance that players don't get that drop. 1/300 says that the odds are well stacked against you in a random roll wouldn't you agree? Average figures pfffffffft, if you're extremely lucky.

 

2 minutes of merching makes the rest of my time on runescape both easier and funner. No reason not to do it if you know how to merch.

 

Plus, f2p sucks anyway so isnt even worth my time to play for real.

 

Agree with that. Get back to P2P.

 

So, RC won't help anyones farming or any other level. So this is an irrelevant point.

The point some of us want to level skills such as RC and making some cash doing it, however slow you view it, doesn't do any harm.

 

 

With 3 herb runs a day (before school, after school, and before bed) its about ~400k a day with 5 minutes each run, on weekends its 4 herb runs a day, the rest of it is made with rune runs (runes are cheaper in store than they are in GE).

 

Haven't finished questing myself up to the 1.4 mill mark, but it shouldn't take long now :thumbup:, and it definately takes less time than getting 91 RC.

Shop runs are fun? :???:. Oh well, spose its up to you if you don't wish to RC. Bit ironic that you've been talking about rune prices crashing or being crappy yet you're trading in them and for not that much profit nor skill xp per hour. Unless I've got that wrong.... :???:

 

 

Hell no. o.O

 

Why are you interrogating me on my methods again, are you trying to prove a point?

I'm not holding a gun to your head here. Just wondering why you'd dismiss a whip so quickly yet spend a while training up your other stats and going through the motions to get all those dung tokens to weild a rapier. I personally don't own a rapier but from what I've read of player opinion there are mixed reviews on it.

[aspeeder]

Its random so there's no guarantees that 1,2 5 or more players would get it in any x amount of kills. Quoting me all the meaningless stats in the world isn't going to change that so spare me the lecture.

http://www.xkcd.com/808/

 

If statistics were useless in predicting average outcomes (In this case drops) real companies like real casinos wouldn't be using them to make [cabbage] tons of money.

[Bladewing]

sorry massa, next time i'll not accidentally miss the . button

 

please forgive me, massa.

[Obtaurian]

lol@dismissing statistics. IT'S A RELIGION DON'T BELIEVE WHAT THE BAD MAN SAYS

[Sir_Kurity]

Shop runs are fun? :???:.

 

Never said they were, but then again, running back and forth from the alter is hardly my primary form of entertainment.

 

Oh well, spose its up to you if you don't wish to RC. Bit ironic that you've been talking about rune prices crashing or being crappy yet you're trading in them

 

Nature runes are the primary crashing rune. Which as its one of the highest profiting runes for runecrafters effects runecrafters far more. Shop run profits are gained from chocolate, water & earth runes, broad bolts, feathers, vial packs, and sometimes death runes.

 

and for not that much profit nor skill xp per hour. Unless I've got that wrong.... :???:

 

Actually shop/herb runs take a very short amount of time for the profit gained, and i don't care about XP/hr because thats only good for being an E-peen enlarger, which i could care less about.

 

Its not up there with frost dragon hunting and the like, but its requirements are significantly lower, and as a pure its pretty much the best option i have until i get 85 dungeoneering or want to give myself carpel tunnel by herb cleaning.

 

I'm not holding a gun to your head here. Just wondering why you'd dismiss a whip so quickly yet spend a while training up your other stats and going through the motions to get all those dung tokens to weild a rapier. I personally don't own a rapier but from what I've read of player opinion there are mixed reviews on it.

 

I'm never getting a rapier. As a pure im not intending to raise my combat level to such lengths. I do however know that its stats are significantly better than whip, and thus, i would use one if i had access to it.

[Guest jrhairychest]

http://www.xkcd.com/808/

 

If statistics were useless in predicting average outcomes (In this case drops) real companies like real casinos wouldn't be using them to make [cabbage] tons of money.

 

lol@dismissing statistics. IT'S A RELIGION DON'T BELIEVE WHAT THE BAD MAN SAYS

 

Dismissing variables to support your point of view makes stats useless. Players can do these tasks and never receive relevant drops so generalising that its an average of this, that or the other is a complete waste of time. If there was a guarantee that a drop would occur within those ranges given I'd have given more support to it. There isn't so I can't. Its all about luck.

 

Unfortunately the problem is compounded by the incessant sheep following too.

 

sorry massa, next time i'll not accidentally miss the . button

 

please forgive me, massa.

 

Silly man. <_< Sorry Blade but it was funny. Perhaps stop taking yourself so seriously all the time might help.

 

 

Never said they were, but then again, running back and forth from the alter is hardly my primary form of entertainment.

Heh, I just thought you said you didn't do things you considered fun.

 

 

Nature runes are the primary crashing rune. Which as its one of the highest profiting runes for runecrafters effects runecrafters far more. Shop run profits are gained from chocolate, water & earth runes, broad bolts, feathers, vial packs, and sometimes death runes.

 

Ahh got you. Spose it pays the rent then. Nats really only affect those 91+, which is why it doesn't bother me atm.

 

Actually shop/herb runs take a very short amount of time for the profit gained, and i don't care about XP/hr because thats only good for being an E-peen enlarger, which i could care less about.

 

Its not up there with frost dragon hunting and the like, but its requirements are significantly lower, and as a pure its pretty much the best option i have until i get 85 dungeoneering or want to give myself carpel tunnel by herb cleaning.

Lmao nicely put and fair point.

 

 

I'm never getting a rapier. As a pure im not intending to raise my combat level to such lengths. I do however know that its stats are significantly better than whip, and thus, i would use one if i had access to it.

 

Ah right. Its just that you'd previously said along the lines of 'If I could......' so I presumed you were judging by that answer.