Behind The Scenes November

[Veiva]

I don't care about X level content. In fact, any way it's done I don't like it for the simple fact that you have to grind to do it (unless it's level 1 of course). That is not my idea of fun. I prefer quests, and if they started requiring level 90+ stats, I'd be sad because I miss out on an aspect of RuneScape I like (lore) due to some high levels (minority) wanting it that way. Since I can't stand grind, I'm not going to go through with it just to do a quest. Oh well. Not like I play much anymore, so it doesn't really matter...

 

(My opinion is that quests should be reserved for those who like lore [such as me], and not so much having high requirements. Leave things with 90+ stat requirements to skills/minigames/etc, and keep it out of quests. Having level 99 strength won't help you understand how the Mahjarrats' ritual works. Nor will it help you do a puzzle [gimmicks like "you need 92 strength to move this boulder are simply lame and unimaginative]. Quests should be the part of RuneScape that use your brain, not your clicking-on-a-tree ability; elite doesn't only mean "skills" in so much as it can involve puzzles, boss difficulty, etc).

[green9090]

I don't care about X level content. In fact, any way it's done I don't like it for the simple fact that you have to grind to do it (unless it's level 1 of course). That is not my idea of fun.

This is the wrong game for you, which you seem to have already identified. There are plenty of games that don't require work to be good at, but generally level-based RPGs won't be among them.

[All_Is_Great]

Void quests are not high-level, FYI.

 

Good job, you took a tiny chunk of updates and picked out a couple high-level ones. Now go through the KB and find every update ever, then compare the amount of high-level content to non-high-level content. You'll be amazed at just how much stuff you have to do in comparison to us.

 

It is not a tiny chunk of updates, Those were the list of GAME UPDATES from Nov 2nd all the way back to July, it is also the first page in the archive currently. I listed it merely to show that LATELY Jagex has done plenty of high leveled updates, and that includes the elite TT, the elite Dairies, all the new dungeoneering floors, the Void quests (the last one is listed as Grandmaster I think?), which is PLENTY of content.

 

Obviously, there will be more mid level content than high level content, but Green was complaining about how high level players don't get any updates, which I proved to be wrong with the list of recent updates. Even if Void quests are not high level by your standards (what, is Grandmaster not high enough for you?), you are forgetting about the updates that apply to everyone, such as Conquest (the void deflector has changed many high level setups for bosses), reward dungeons (frost dragons, hell you can't even access frost dragons Obt, nor do the elite diaries for that matter), etc. Just because you might not enjoy an update, doesn't mean it's geared towards low level noobs, it's your own choice not to access the new content.

 

@Green, you don't have access to warped floors yet, what are you waiting for! The new content just came out today!

 

So, honestly, I don't see any reason for you guys to complain at all.

 

:rolleyes: What is it with mid-level players being selfish and demanding that all content be available to them?

 

I never even mentioned that all content should be available to me. I was merely saying you guys sure complain alot with no real basis.

[green9090]

As much as I had hoped that the dungeoneering update would be high level content, it really isn't. It's a bunch of new floors to work toward with no incentive- rewards still stop at 85. The only reasons you'd go back to reach the warped floors is if you lose a chaotic, like the minigame, or want total level.

 

Eventually I'll be back there for the third reason, but it's still going to be a long, thankless grind with no useful rewards in sight. Very unfortunate and very Jagex to make a skill go to 120 with rewards up to 85.

[Veiva]

I don't care about X level content. In fact, any way it's done I don't like it for the simple fact that you have to grind to do it (unless it's level 1 of course). That is not my idea of fun.

This is the wrong game for you, which you seem to have already identified. There are plenty of games that don't require work to be good at, but generally level-based RPGs won't be among them.

 

I understand that this is not quite the right game for me, but nonetheless, after the grind hit in the only thing that kept me going were quests. I've since abandoned the idea of a quest cape (as in: having done all quests that compliment the lore of RuneScape, not as in: I want the blue cape) simply because I'm bored of the game, but I still like the lore.

[Bartuccio3]

Since you keep calling high level subjective, let's unsubjectify it.

 

A pretty overwhelmingly fair definition of high level, in my opinion, is over half-way to 99 in a skill: which is 92. For the purposes of this discussion, at level 92, high level content for a skill starts. Reasonable?

 

Considering 92 in a skill takes anywhere from 60-120+ hours of grind dependant on skill. (According to various sources, this a bit less than how long it takes to max level a WoW character), id say thats pretty dam more than high, especially because this is a SINGLE skill.

 

I'd just like to point out that a lot of skills, particularly "buyable" skills, will be level 99 with excess experience if you spend 60 hours training them in "normal" ways, without focusing on being as efficient as possible.

 

A good example is cooking, even going back to old methods that were available long before RS2 was out: you didn't even need 2m experience to get to sharks, and could attain this much experience in 10-15 hours if you were properly focused and using good methods, assuming you only count time spent actually cooking and not trading for supplies or diy fishing; sharks from 80-99 would take less than 45 hours. There's 60 or fewer hours to a 99 stat, and the hours required are taken based off of the new cook x rates, which lowered the rate of production per hour to people that actually can pay attention and click quickly.

 

Taking 60 hours to hit level 92 assumes a maximum average of 108k experience per hour, which is far below average players' thresholds for most skills if you exclude melee stats. I could really only see it taking so long to reach the halfway mark in any stat with current methods if you're very inattentive, training melee combat stats, levelling mining or fishing, or dungeoneering with a poor team or solo. Given that this leaves well over half the skills being much faster, and also that your sources for a max level WoW character probably just memorised a good quest chain and know how to powerlevel (I tried retail for a month and never hit 30, playing over two hours a day; much more than 60 hours and not even mid-level?) I'd say you're probably over-estimating time investment for RS based on lack of relevant gameplay experience. I consider my 73 dungeoneering to be quite low given that it's higher than other stats of mine that took much more effort to obtain, yet from your previous posts, it seems that since it's 70+ (the high-end requirements for current quests) you think it's ungodly high. I'd really suggest not considering the first 1/13 (or in this case, less than 1%) of a skill to be high level, regardless of what stat it is.

 

Ever since somebody maxed combat the first time, that's what should've been considered "high level," especially as it became easier over time to attain. The non-combat equivalent would probably be having at least 80-90% of the required experience for max level in the skill, imo.

 

Another thing I'd like to point out is that time isn't as valuable to an MMO gamer as you make it sound. MMORPGs are notorious for having much longer timespans required to achieve anything than console RPG games and those already go above 100 hours for a single playthrough on anything with extensive content beyond a straight walk from the start of the game to the final boss with a few random encounters tossed in for lulz.

[Sir_Kurity]

Why are you comparing the game to WoW?

 

Because WoW is another MMO which people have a habit of calling a grindfest. The fact that a single quest has requirements equavalent to max a whole character in wow, and that you still consider that a low level...

 

And 125 hours of game time is not really a whole lot considering you'll never have to get those requirements again- once you get all the quest requirements you're out of stuff to do permanently. At 2 hours a day that's a few months. A player a few months old is a complete noob.

 

At 2 hours a day it takes about 2 months yes, thats a reasonable amount of time.

 

I AGREE, how about supporting the idea of Jagex FIXING IT?

 

Throwing quests at you that require 92 agility won't actually make you any happier than if they required 80 agility, assuming its the same quest either way.

 

You made a conscious decision to train a skill to 90+ despite there being no significant rewards for it, and now that youve done it your demanding content for that high level to the exclusion of others.

[All_Is_Great]

As much as I had hoped that the dungeoneering update would be high level content, it really isn't. It's a bunch of new floors to work toward with no incentive- rewards still stop at 85. The only reasons you'd go back to reach the warped floors is if you lose a chaotic, like the minigame, or want total level.

 

Eventually I'll be back there for the third reason, but it's still going to be a long, thankless grind with no useful rewards in sight. Very unfortunate and very Jagex to make a skill go to 120 with rewards up to 85.

 

I'm suggesting we cut the exp required to get 99 in a skill in HALF and call the ENTIRE UPPER HALF "high level," and you're saying that's not defining enough of the process as high level?

 

Ridiculous. This is the main problem with selfish low levels- they don't understand just how much TIME goes into getting from the content they consider "high" (like 80) to maxing out at 99. The real high level stuff starts around 95 to be perfectly honest.

 

 

Kinda contradicting yourself there.

 

Ok, MAYBE occult isn't THAT high level, but considering it goes from 70-93, and was released after the skill has only been there for a couple months, I'd consider it high level content. But saying warped floors isn't high level, what? It starts from 95 and goes to 120 for heaven's sake! How much higher do you want it?

 

There's tons of incentive, such as getting better primal weapons, purchasing different chaotic weapons (I mean, who can only settle for just one, when they're so damn awesome?!) Don't you think Jagex will release rewards from 85+? Do you honestly think they're finished with a skill that's only been out for 6 months? This isn't construction/smithing we're talking about, this is the supposed end-game skill.

 

Speaking of construction, I do understand how much TIME goes into maxing out a skill. It took me a year of on and off training to get to 99 and construction is one of the fastest skills to train. But I don't see what your trying to say. My point is there are certainly enough high level updates recently and you have plenty of content to play around with.

[green9090]

Throwing quests at you that require 92 agility won't actually make you any happier than if they required 80 agility, assuming its the same quest either way.

 

No, but giving me some incentive to train agility like exclusive shortcuts or areas that do more than save a few seconds would be a nice gesture for players who spent long enough to get to the 90s in agility. Herblore update was a great start, but the rest of the skills need it too.

 

You made a conscious decision to train a skill to 90+ despite there being no significant rewards for it, and now that youve done it your demanding content for that high level to the exclusion of others.

And YOU are making a conscious decision to not train your stats and yet demand that every update that comes out adds to your ever growing pile of lukewarm content that you'll never finish until you're in the same boat I'm in, if you don't quit first.

 

My argument here is that enough content already exists to keep people busy into the 80s in all skills. There is seriously SO MUCH CONTENT on the way to the very easy to achieve point of averaging 80 in all skills. Then it stops. I'm saying add content where there isn't already a gigantic mountain of unused worthless content.

[green9090]

As much as I had hoped that the dungeoneering update would be high level content, it really isn't. It's a bunch of new floors to work toward with no incentive- rewards still stop at 85. The only reasons you'd go back to reach the warped floors is if you lose a chaotic, like the minigame, or want total level.

 

Eventually I'll be back there for the third reason, but it's still going to be a long, thankless grind with no useful rewards in sight. Very unfortunate and very Jagex to make a skill go to 120 with rewards up to 85.

 

I'm suggesting we cut the exp required to get 99 in a skill in HALF and call the ENTIRE UPPER HALF "high level," and you're saying that's not defining enough of the process as high level?

 

Ridiculous. This is the main problem with selfish low levels- they don't understand just how much TIME goes into getting from the content they consider "high" (like 80) to maxing out at 99. The real high level stuff starts around 95 to be perfectly honest.

 

 

Kinda contradicting yourself there.

 

Ok, MAYBE occult isn't THAT high level, but considering it goes from 70-93, and was released after the skill has only been there for a couple months, I'd consider it high level content. But saying warped floors isn't high level, what? It starts from 95 and goes to 120 for heaven's sake! How much higher do you want it?

 

There's tons of incentive, such as getting better primal weapons, purchasing different chaotic weapons (I mean, who can only settle for just one, when they're so damn awesome?!) Don't you think Jagex will release rewards from 85+? Do you honestly think they're finished with a skill that's only been out for 6 months? This isn't construction/smithing we're talking about, this is the supposed end-game skill.

 

Speaking of construction, I do understand how much TIME goes into maxing out a skill. It took me a year of on and off training to get to 99 and construction is one of the fastest skills to train. But I don't see what your trying to say. My point is there are certainly enough high level updates recently and you have plenty of content to play around with.

There's a difference between adding crap to grind and incentive. The warped floors are the equivalent of a new potion to make- okay, cool, but in the end I'm still grinding for nothing. If they released rewards above 85, that would be like untradable potions for herblore, to complete the analogy. It would give me a reason to grind to get something neat. Dungeoneering currently has grind content all the way to 120, which is great, but if the incentives stop at 85 it still feels like a gigantic treadmill.

 

Surely you can see the difference between training incentive and training method?

[Obtaurian]

And YOU are making a conscious decision to not train your stats and yet demand that every update that comes out adds to your ever growing pile of lukewarm content that you'll never finish until you're in the same boat I'm in, if you don't quit first.

 

My argument here is that enough content already exists to keep people busy into the 80s in all skills. There is seriously SO MUCH CONTENT on the way to the very easy to achieve point of averaging 80 in all skills. Then it stops. I'm saying add content where there isn't already a gigantic mountain of unused worthless content.

 

This. This. This. You cannot argue against this point, as it is true in every way. These arguments are literally [developmentally delayed]ed. :rolleyes: Here's an analogy:

 

Imagine three kids. Kid #1 is five years-old and has two bags packed full of candy. Kid #2 is 12 years-old and has three bags packed full of candy, a puppy, and a brand new XBOX 360 (with CoD: Black Ops). Kid #3 isn't actually a kid -- he's an 18 year-old college student holding a paperbag with a few pieces of his favorite candy and note from his parents that says "[bleep] you, son."

 

As I'm sure you've guessed, kid #1 is a low-level player, kid #2 is a mid-level player, and kid #3 is a high-level player.

[Bartuccio3]

Here's an analogy:

 

Imagine three kids. Kid #1 is five years-old and has two bags packed full of candy. Kid #2 is 12 years-old and has three bags packed full of candy, a puppy, and a brand new XBOX 360 (with CoD: Black Ops). Kid #3 isn't actually a kid -- he's an 18 year-old college student holding a paperbag with a few pieces of his favorite candy and note from his parents that says "[bleep] you, son."

 

As I'm sure you've guessed, kid #1 is a low-level player, kid #2 is a mid-level player, and kid #3 is a high-level player.

 

I absolutely love it. This puts it in simple enough terms that if people don't get where the development teams are focusing their content, they really shouldn't even be trying to play an online game, much less argue over why they feel the developers are making the right choice in where they focus the content; honestly, looking at every other (commercially successful) MMO, there's usually a small concentration of low-level content, very small levels of content for groupings of levels beyond newb and before end-game, then all of the fun and interesting content is in the endgame. RS has this problem of thinking that you're only going to play for the six or seven months it would take to attain and complete lower middle-levelled content while the majority of its subscriber base is long-term players that eventually quit because they run out of things to do.

 

I even had a friend with no knowledge of the game, who made plenty of terrible choices in how he did things, start a character and quit after two months because he couldn't afford p2p and had cleared all the f2p content; outside his first week, he never played more than two hours in the same day. I know most people will discredit f2p as an example, but it's been stated that f2p is not a demo (which I agree with) and along those lines I prefer to simply look at it as a simplified version of p2p: in either case all of the content is focused at too low of a level and people are more than likely to get bored of grinding the same thing with no reward outside of a highscore rank.

[Sir_Kurity]

And YOU are making a conscious decision to not train your stats and yet demand that every update that comes out adds to your ever growing pile of lukewarm content that you'll never finish until you're in the same boat I'm in, if you don't quit first.

 

Your right, i am making a conscious decision to not train my stats to the high 90's because it wouldn't be fun to do so.

 

My argument here is that enough content already exists to keep people busy into the 80s in all skills. There is seriously SO MUCH CONTENT on the way to the very easy to achieve point of averaging 80 in all skills. Then it stops. I'm saying add content where there isn't already a gigantic mountain of unused worthless content.

 

But the thing is that content does not need to be exclusively high leveled content. Theres no magic rule that says you can't do void stares back because your too high a level. Ohh no, only mid level players allowed here, your too powerful for our pest queen. I'm afraid your going to have to sit in a corner and grind agility now.

 

You can do void stares back just as any other player with the requirements can. And whether or not its exclusive to you should make little difference.

 

And before you say void stares back has crap rewards. Theres a reason everyone in PVP wants it and/or is calling for a nerf.

 

Here's an analogy:

 

Imagine three kids. Kid #1 is five years-old and has two bags packed full of candy. Kid #2 is 12 years-old and has three bags packed full of candy, a puppy, and a brand new XBOX 360 (with CoD: Black Ops). Kid #3 isn't actually a kid -- he's an 18 year-old college student holding a paperbag with a few pieces of his favorite candy and note from his parents that says "[bleep] you, son."

 

As I'm sure you've guessed, kid #1 is a low-level player, kid #2 is a mid-level player, and kid #3 is a high-level player.

 

Your analogy is literally [developmentally delayed]ed. :rolleyes:

 

Kid 1 gets as you described.

Kid 2 gets as you described.

Kid 3 gets everything that kid 1 and kid 2 gets, as well as being able to enjoy the XBOX more because of having more games, better games and better motor skills.

 

looking at every other (commercially successful) MMO, there's usually a small concentration of low-level content, very small levels of content for groupings of levels beyond newb and before end-game, then all of the fun and interesting content is in the endgame. RS has this problem of thinking that you're only going to play for the six or seven months it would take to attain and complete lower middle-levelled content while the majority of its subscriber base is long-term players that eventually quit because they run out of things to do.

 

You know what the difference is?

 

WoW (the most successful MMO), it takes 120+ hours to get to endgame, and thus the concentrated content at endgame means that, although there may be grind before the endgame its relatively quick to get there, then you can enjoy 99% of content.

 

Runescape's endgame by your definition takes over 2000 hours to get. And if all the content was concentrated there, this game would be DEAD. If a player went here and spent 120, even 200 hours here on RS, and then could only access 5% of the game, he would probably ragequit.

[Obtaurian]

Sir_Kurity, can you explain to me why you're so adamantly against releasing content for EVERYONE and not just some players? I'm talking EXCLUSIVE content TAILORED to a certain player base. You seem to have this strange idea that you are entitled to all content, and thus content that you cannot do should never be released. How selfish of you.

[green9090]

Nothing you said discredited my point that high levels have nothing to work toward after climbing over the mountain of dead content that is levels 1-~75 in most skills.

 

The fun in new content isn't usually doing it- Void Stares Back sucks. It's in having something cool to look forward to in the future. Which I'm sure Korasi's sword is if you can't afford a Sara sword from str training or d claws for specs. In other words, it's MORE LOW LEVEL CONTENT.

[Bartuccio3]

Your analogy is literally [developmentally delayed]ed. :rolleyes:

 

Kid 1 gets as you described.

Kid 2 gets as you described.

Kid 3 gets everything that kid 1 and kid 2 gets, as well as being able to enjoy the XBOX more because of having more games, better games and better motor skills.

 

Kid 3 is in college and presumably doesn't have the time or proximity in locale to share the XBOX with kid 2.

 

Similarly, higher-leveled players are too concerned with content appropriate to their own accounts to be bothered with something that, for example, would help them train from 50-60 strength faster; if it's not useful or viewed as impractical from a perspective of time invested to time saved, the high levels will refuse to use the new mid-level content when making an informed decision. Your counter-example of Korasi's sword being useful is a rarer example in that it doesn't take a significant time to obtain but does save a significant amount of time when considering having to earn money to buy a tradeable special attack weapon; most lower-leveled content gives minimalist experience rewards in the low thousands and/or an item that isn't of any use to even somebody with low 60's for their highest stats. I'd say probably the best example of low-levelled content being useful to high level characters would be the void armour set, which you completely overlooked: 42s in combat stats can be achieved easily by anybody, yet the rewards for doing so offer the best dps in the game.

 

If you're going to ignore the most important part of why a person would or wouldn't consider content targeted at a lower-leveled group of players than them useful, I don't see why you're even going to argue that we don't need level-appropriate content.

 

EDIT:

You know what the difference is?

 

WoW (the most successful MMO), it takes 120+ hours to get to endgame, and thus the concentrated content at endgame means that, although there may be grind before the endgame its relatively quick to get there, then you can enjoy 99% of content.

 

Runescape's endgame by your definition takes over 2000 hours to get. And if all the content was concentrated there, this game would be DEAD. If a player went here and spent 120, even 200 hours here on RS, and then could only access 5% of the game, he would probably ragequit.

 

The reason WoW is successful is that it caters to "casual gamers" which don't have the patience required to access content at the rate deemed acceptable by players of other games. Try playing an MMO that's not RS or WoW and tell me you could hit endgame in a shorter time than what you think RS' endgame would take to reach. I can almost guarantee you wouldn't have the patience to get to any other MMO's endgame if you wouldn't invest 2000 hours into it. Being willing to invest 120 hours into something can get you massive results...in a platformer or an FPS. Don't expect things to be fast if you're playing a genre notorious for the length and depth of its content.

[Obtaurian]

Your analogy is literally [developmentally delayed]ed. :rolleyes:

 

Kid 1 gets as you described.

Kid 2 gets as you described.

Kid 3 gets everything that kid 1 and kid 2 gets, as well as being able to enjoy the XBOX more because of having more games, better games and better motor skills.

 

Kid 3 is in college and presumably doesn't have the time or proximity in locale to share the XBOX with kid 2.

 

Similarly, higher-leveled players are too concerned with content appropriate to their own accounts to be bothered with something that, for example, would help them train from 50-60 strength faster; if it's not useful or viewed as impractical from a perspective of time invested to time saved, the high levels will refuse to use the new mid-level content when making an informed decision. Your counter-example of Korasi's sword being useful is a rarer example in that it doesn't take a significant time to obtain but does save a significant amount of time when considering having to earn money to buy a tradeable special attack weapon; most lower-leveled content gives minimalist experience rewards in the low thousands and/or an item that isn't of any use to even somebody with low 60's for their highest stats. I'd say probably the best example of low-levelled content being useful to high level characters would be the void armour set, which you completely overlooked: 42s in combat stats can be achieved easily by anybody, yet the rewards for doing so offer the best dps in the game.

 

If you're going to ignore the most important part of why a person would or wouldn't consider content targeted at a lower-leveled group of players than them useful, I don't see why you're even going to argue that we don't need level-appropriate content.

 

This is another brilliant point. I can't really add to it, so I'll give it my endorsement instead. ;)

[Jehosaphat]

This argument AGAIN?

 

To put it simply, my OPINION is that the majority of content (that is, lore-related stuff, petty amusements, etc.) should be geared toward the low-to-mid level player. Why? Because having content available to only high-levels makes it so lower-levels can't enjoy it, as opposed to having something be at a level where most people can have fun with it, from low-level to high-level. Now, this is just the "For Lols" content. As for content that provides superior weaponry, training methods, or various other efficiency-promoting stuff, I say that it should get better the higher you level. The higher the level, the more xp/hr you get, the higher the level you can get.

 

TL;DR: Leave the "For Lols" stuff to the lower levels so everyone can enjoy it; have training methods get better as you level because the higher levels seem to actually care about xp/hr more than low levels.

 

Just my opinion on the matter. Now please, let the content argument DIE. We've all heard it enough.

[Sir_Kurity]

Sir_Kurity, can you explain to me why you're so adamantly against releasing content for EVERYONE and not just some players?

 

Mid level IS for everyone, i thought we have already been through this. Just because mid levels have access to the quest doesn't mean that high levels can't do it.

 

I'm talking EXCLUSIVE content TAILORED to a certain player base.

 

You seem to have this strange idea that you are entitled to all content, and thus content that you cannot do should never be released. How selfish of you.

 

And you seem to have this strange idea that your entitled to your own exclusive content just because you have the perseverance to grind multiple skills into the high 90's, how selfish of you. :thumbup:

 

As i said in my previous post, i don't mind exclusive content tailored to a certain playerbase dependant on situation, the whole "endgame" thing in WoW is a fine system because it only takes 120-150 hours to get to. But when getting to that certain playerbase such as in runescape takes hundreds, maybe even 1000+ hours of "gameplay" to get to that point, you begin to wonder.

 

Anyone feeling some deja vu here...

 

The fun in new content isn't usually doing it

 

If new content isnt fun to you, maybe you should look into another game. I find many quests and minigames fun even if they don't provide a good reward by the end of it, castle wars is a perfect example which until recently (and even now), have crap rewards.

 

Which I'm sure Korasi's sword is if you can't afford a Sara sword from str training or d claws for specs. In other words, it's MORE LOW LEVEL CONTENT.

 

Korasi's sword is a PVP spec weapon up there with claws, as its uneffected by defence and literally cannot miss, as well as having no easy counter like a phoenix neck.

 

Also in PVP your not likely to be risking claws, its also a great combination in tandem with claws, because korasis is uneffected by phoenix neck, but claws is good for initial spec before the phoenix neck is weilded. :thumbsup:

[green9090]

Tired of arguing with a selfish low level with circular arguments.

 

Enjoy getting access to 90% of the content that comes out at a pathetically low level and then realizing way down the line that, oh crap, there's nothing interesting in the game because of people like you opposing anything that anyone would have to expend effort to access.

[Obtaurian]

Tired of arguing with a selfish low level with circular arguments.

 

Enjoy getting access to 90% of the content that comes out at a pathetically low level and then realizing way down the line that, oh crap, there's nothing interesting in the game because of people like you opposing anything that anyone would have to expend effort to access.

 

Pretty much how I feel, too, especially having had this exact same argument with him before (I distinctly remember a certain fishing thread in which he failed to prove his argument).

 

I'm out.

[Sir_Kurity]

Tired of arguing with a selfish low level with circular arguments.

 

Enjoy getting access to 90% of the content that comes out at a pathetically low level and then realizing way down the line that, oh crap, there's nothing interesting in the game because of people like you opposing anything that anyone would have to expend effort to access.

 

I'll have quit or have PVP as my endgame by that point, runescape has alot of content you see, you just need to embrace it. :thumbup:

 

Also id say im a mid level player, quite a bit of gametime put into this guy.

 

Kid 3 is in college and presumably doesn't have the time or proximity in locale to share the XBOX with kid 2.

 

He can share it just fine, as i said before, much content is enjoyed more by the high level than the low level. Most PVPesque minigames and PVP in general are a great example. As well as most dungeons, dungeoneering in general, etc.

 

Similarly, higher-leveled players are too concerned with content appropriate to their own accounts to be bothered with something that, for example, would help them train from 50-60 strength faster; if it's not useful or viewed as impractical from a perspective of time invested to time saved, the high levels will refuse to use the new mid-level content when making an informed decision.

 

Rewards can always be level/QP specific, even if quests aren't. Take blood pact for example. Even though the hats just an e-peen enlarger and the quest probably wasent fun for anybody level 3 or level 100, its a little something for the more experienced players who complete the quest.

 

Your counter-example of Korasi's sword being useful is a rarer example in that it doesn't take a significant time to obtain but does save a significant amount of time when considering having to earn money to buy a tradeable special attack weapon; most lower-leveled content gives minimalist experience rewards in the low thousands and/or an item that isn't of any use to even somebody with low 60's for their highest stats.

 

In PVP, korasis sword saves ALOT of time, and ALOT of money. Its a favored spec weapon for a variety of reasons.

 

I'd say probably the best example of low-levelled content being useful to high level characters would be the void armour set, which you completely overlooked: 42s in combat stats can be achieved easily by anybody, yet the rewards for doing so offer the best dps in the game.

 

Oh, yea, thanks.

 

The reason WoW is successful is that it caters to "casual gamers" which don't have the patience required to access content at the rate deemed acceptable by players of other games. Try playing an MMO that's not RS or WoW and tell me you could hit endgame in a shorter time than what you think RS' endgame would take to reach.

 

Guild wars, max level can be done in literally hours, infact im pretty sure you can skip it altogthor and jump straight into PVP. Come to think of it the only MMO's i can think of where "endgame" takes 2000 hours to get are those ridiculous korean ones like maplestory.

 

I can almost guarantee you wouldn't have the patience to get to any other MMO's endgame if you wouldn't invest 2000 hours into it. Being willing to invest 120 hours into something can get you massive results...in a platformer or an FPS. Don't expect things to be fast if you're playing a genre notorious for the length and depth of its content.

 

I wouldn't mind a gradual rise to high level content. But really, demanding that most content be endgame is a bit ridiculous when it takes over 2000 hours to get.

 

(I distinctly remember a certain fishing thread in which he failed to prove his argument).

 

Nor did you prove yours. Such things are subjective and can't really be proved.

[Bartuccio3]

I'll be withdrawing from this pointless and self-winning argument as well, after my final statements.

 

This first being that anybody with any knowledge of a typical real-life scenario would know that kid 3, being both adult and enrolled in college, would fit two of the most common criteria for living a great distance from his younger siblings. I don't know about you, but I don't see myself driving two or more hours away from my own home to play with my kid brother's Nintendo, in such a case.

 

My other point was apparently lost on anybody as young as a typical RS player that didn't have older friends to expose them to more classic MMO games. Look at something like Everquest or Dark Age of Camelot if you want an example of a game with actual content that can't be cleared in a week of casual play.

[Troacctid]

Didn't I already explain why low-level content is important to the game? Or did everyone just ignore me? :cry:

[PereGrin]

Did I stumble into the wrong thread? I swear, it's like deja vu all over again.

 

Eh, when I look at the skills, I see gaping holes. I mean, combat skills stop at 80, as far as unlockable content goes. Woohoo chaotic, at 1/6 the xp requirement to max out the skill level.

 

Acutally, the only skills I see that have new stuff unlock pretty much all the way up them are Herblore, Summoning, Prayer, and Smithing.

 

Most skills have small abilities you unlock at higher levels, but nothing major. Example, Agility lets you run longer, Fishing makes you catch fish faster, etc. I mean, how about a level 95 agility course, and a fish with level 95 fishing req.

 

As far as quests go, players would rage, and other players would love it. The raging group would be obvious though, with such '07 catchphrases as "we pay, we say!" But hey, it's only ever the unhappy people that whine about things. And pretty much any tiny little update Jagex does causes the RSOF to explode.

 

I wouldn't really mind super high level quests, but I probably wouldn't do them either. Besides, for most quests, you only need requirements for one portion of the quest, and you can stew most of them up +6. A +6 boost saves you having to get like 90% of the experience for that level anyway, so that's not that bad at all.

 

Besides, a quest with, for example, 90 cooking as a req wouldn't be all that gamebreaking. I mean, yeah, if they tossed out a quest that you needed 98 runecrafting to do, that would be pretty ridiculous. But I see no reason to not move at least more quest requirements up. Pretty much all my friends who quest heavily have total levels that flatten me anyways, so any higher level quest requirement would be more likely to be accessible to them, and not me.

 

It seems to me that people with the quest cape have a lot of dedication to the game already. So they would most likely skill to get the requirement, or something like that. The higher level reqs would seem to only put the quest cape out of the reach of people who would probably not have gotten it anyway. Hypothetically at any rate.

 

@troacctid

I would say low level content keeps new players coming in, and keeps them playing through the game until they are hooked. This would expand player base, which means more money for Jagex, which means they can hire someone to proof read the KB articles before they release updates. And this would be a good thing.