The problem is that youre trying to make a Mellon, apple and bananas weigh the same. Each class is simply too different in too many ways.

How could that be fixed?

if you have no idea what I am talking about, its the combat triangle. a force in runescape that, although never really seen, can be felt everywhere...

...but not enough.

 

 

I shall go strait to the point, this is Nothing but what I think someone here is bound to find my views stupid or the like, but that is why your here. to show me the mistakes I have made, or possibly, mistakes I have not made!

also worth noting, please, if your going to mention my horrible spelling/grammar. feel free to, as long as its not the only thing youre going to talk about.

 

 

 

now my basic idea is this: each combat class is too different to be balanced, so lets make them behave more like each other, while still trying to keep variety.

 

Suppose range and mage got given 3 different forms of damage (same as melee stab, slash, crush)

You could just make melee have one type, it would be easier, but probably make the game a bit blander.

 

Mage would be easy, just having different elements (would need some work from the current 4 ele system though) or different side effect or the like. Or if you want something different the damage types could be like

"Conduct" damage by getting the magic to go IN your opponent.

"Blast" damage by the explosion created (think what spells looked like b4 the update)

"Manipulate" damage done by using stuff around you and shoving it in there face (think current earth spells)

Metal armour would probably have better defence vs. manipulate and blast but poor vs. conduct, leather armour would be resistant vs. conduct but have lower defence vs. blast and manipulate or something like that

 

Range could have some like... pierce, melee equivalent of stab, and idk what else.

Arrows would be more like a stabbing weapon,

Bolts would be crush equivalent,

Throwing axe (as an example) would be slash equivalent,

Each ranged ammo has the option to use other damage types in the same way you can use slash or crush on a 2h.

 

Armour would be updated to have stats differing in, not only melee defender, but in range and mage also. Same with weapons.

with that out of the way people now can specialise, like some meleer use a 2h on crush to hit past melee armour but have it to slash to hit though mage/range armour.

 

 

Next would be how to allow people to customise there skills. B4 you think WTF?! I am talking about how people can make a str pure, or decide to get higher attack rather then str.

One possible option is to simply remove attack and str and make a melee skill. But one again it would probably make the game blander not to mention all the people complaining!

So the only real option is to allow mage and range to adjust there abilities somehow. It does not need to be via 2 skills like melee (although it would be relatively simple) it could be the type of style, or ammo/weapon youre using.

Like how you can choose to fight aggressive or accurate, but with much more significant effects or a possibility is that armour comes in 2 main types, accuracy and damage boosting. So a ranger could use a black d hide body with its +30 to ranges accuracy, or a black d hide with +20 accuracy but + 5 ranged strength, possible not the armour and just the weapon though, an attachment like the longbow sight that effects damage is a very good option (side note about ranged strength, even the symbol for that has a melee hint in it >.> , it should be replaced with something else).

 

 

 

The next thing would be ammo.

too remove ammo for ranges and mage is just a bad idea. so what could be done to make it all even?

now mage should cost more then range that costs more then melee. but the difference in cost is to steep. somehow melee should cost more and mage cost less (assuming ranged makes a good centre point)

now if mage costs less should be via items such as SoL or simply cheaper/need fewer runes.

how can melee are made to use more money, lowing the armours defence would help in the way of using more food. Maybe make melee potions more expensive then mage/range (7.5k for 5 level mage boost or 3.5k for 2 potions that raise attack and str by 5 at level 25 or 19 levels at 99) or be evil and give melee weapons a degrading effect (wouldnt you need to resharpen that scimy after trying to cut though all those rune plates?)

truth is though; I dont really know how this should be done. As there is no real one way to do this, at least without giving up the use of the forums for a week.

 

 

 

No one should deny that after all this A LOT more still has to be done. But all I set out to do was set what I think the foundation for a truly balanced combat triangle.

 

 

For anyone who does not wish to read all that.

#1 give mage and ranges different damage types like melee has stab, slash and crush.

 

#2 allow mage and range to adjust there stats is more ways then just getting better. in the same way someone can make a str pure for KO power, let rangers give up accuracy for extra damage etc

 

#3 makes melee a bit more expensive, mage a bit less expensive.

 

 

p.s. Merry Christmas everyone :)

Sorry, I haven't read it yet, but can I make a tiny suggestion?

 

Can you please sort your sentences into clearer paragraphs, fix your spelling, throw in some punctuation, and try to use capitalization? I don't mean to be harsh, but it really helps the readability of a thread. I only ask because it's a THREAD and not just a POST.

 

I'll edit this after I've read it.

Interesting suggestions, change is far too radical however, and more than likely will never happen, ever.

I actually didnt find the spelling/grammar that bad once I got into it. Mostly good points, no real ideas for fixing it though, and nothing that would raise the DPS of mage/range.

I actually didnt find the spelling/grammar that bad once I got into it. Mostly good points, no real ideas for fixing it though, and nothing that would raise the DPS of mage/range.

Well this, but I don't see mage needing more dps in pvp. Ranged, perhaps, but it does attack from a distance. In pvm, magic could do with one point of attack speed. Also, miasmic could work on bosses (one mage per corp team?).

 

I could see armour with stab/slash/crush/air(smoke)/earth(blood)/fire(shadow)/water(ice)/pierce/cut (the latter being arrows/bolts and throwaxes, respectively). It would add a lot of clutter to the equipment screen, and I think you would have to have the equivalent soak to do it properly. But it would be to my advantage because I like numbers :P.

 

I thought that a charge-like spell that provides infinite runes of a certain type, possibly with a runecrafting requirement to cast or unlock the spell, might be good for cheaper magic. Of course you would still have lower dps than melee.

I'm totally :thumbsup: for the magic and ranged styles (elements for the magic)

What is the use of posting this as this will never ever happen because these changes are far to different from the gameplay at the moment. What is the use of discussing possible changes that will never happen?

 

Interesting post though.

What is the use of posting this as this will never ever happen because these changes are far to different from the gameplay at the moment. What is the use of discussing possible changes that will never happen?

 

Interesting post though.

 

Why not post this on the 120 stats thread?

Or, for that matter, 50% of posts in general discussion.

 

People like to DISCUSS future updates in which they think may help the game. And, as this is GENERAL DISCUSSION, it is, no matter how trivial, allowed to be here.

What is the use of posting this as this will never ever happen because these changes are far to different from the gameplay at the moment. What is the use of discussing possible changes that will never happen?

 

Interesting post though.

 

Why not post this on the 120 stats thread?

Or, for that matter, 50% of posts in general discussion.

 

People like to DISCUSS future updates in which they think may help the game. And, as this is GENERAL DISCUSSION, it is, no matter how trivial, allowed to be here.

I did not say that this shouldn't be allowed, only that I do not really see the point in discussing something that is clearly not going to happen.

But, as I also stated, I can imagine some people find this interesting to discuss.

What is to be done for Balance to be restored, hmmm wake up guthix :unsure:

 

OT:

Mages can already hit very high, range should be updated making items like javelins and thrown axes useful, making them stab / slash maybe an option.

 

About reducing costs for mages, probably releasing some altars close to banks which make untradable runes but you make them 2x as much as what you can at the current RC lvl.

Obt whining and blabbering

 

 

 

The problem is that you’re trying to make a melon, an apple and a banana weigh the same. Each class is simply too different in too many ways - How could that be fixed?

If you have no idea what I am talking about, it’s the combat triangle. A force in runescape that, although never really seen, can be felt everywhere..

 

..but not enough.

 

I shall go straight to the point: this is nothing but what I think. Someone here is bound to find my views stupid or the like, but that is why you're here; to show me the mistakes I have made, or possibly, mistakes I have not made! Also, worth noting, please, if you're going to mention my horrible spelling/grammar, feel free to, as long as it’s not the only thing you're going to talk about.

 

Now, my basic idea is this: each combat class is too different to be balanced, so let’s make them behave more like each other, while still trying to keep variety.

 

Suppose range and mage were given 3 different forms of damage (same as melee stab, slash, crush).

Of course, you could just make melee have one type - it would be easier - but probably make the game a bit blander.

 

Mage would be easy, just having different elements (would need some work from the current four elements system though) or a different side effect or the like, or if you want something different, the damage types could be like:

- "Conduct": damage by getting the magic to go INTO your opponent.

- "Blast": damage by the explosion created (think what spells looked like before the update)

- "Manipulate": damage done by using stuff around you and shoving it in their face (think current earth spells)

Metal armour would probably have better defence vs. manipulate and blast spells, but poor vs. conduct. Leather armour would be resistant vs. conduct but have lower defence vs. blast and manipulate or something like that.

 

Range could have some like... pierce, melee equivalent of stab, and idk what else.

- Arrows could be more like a stabbing weapon.

- Bolts would be crush equivalent.

- Throwing axe (as an example) would be slash equivalent.

Each type of ranged ammo has the option to use other damage types in the same way you can use slash or crush on a 2h.

 

Armour would be updated to have stats differing in, not only the melee defender, but in range and mage also - same with weapons.

With that out of the way people can now specialise, like a meleer use a 2h on crush to hit past melee armour, but have it to slash to hit though mage/range armour.

 

Next would be how to allow people to customise there skills. Before you think “WTF are you talking about", let me explain: people can make a strength pure, or decide to get higher attack rather then strength. One possible option is to simply remove attack and strength and make a “melee” skill. But once again it would probably make the game blander… not to mention all the people complaining!

 

So the only real option is to allow mage and range to adjust their abilities somehow. It does not need to be via 2 skills like melee (although it would be relatively simple) - it could be the type of style, or ammo/weapon you’re using. Like how you can choose to fight aggressive or accurate, but with much more significant effects. Or a possibility is that armour comes in 2 main types: accuracy and damage boosting. So a ranger could use a black d'hide body with its +30 ranged accuracy or a black d'hide with +20 accuracy and +5 ranged strength. Possibly not the armour and just the weapon though, an attachment like the longbow sight that effects damage is a very good option (side note about ranged strength: even the symbol for that has a melee hint in it >.>. It should be replaced with something else).

 

The next thing would be ammo:

To remove ammo for rangers and magers is just a bad idea, so what could be done to make it all even? Now, mage should cost more then range that should cost more then melee. But the difference in cost is too steep. Somehow melee should cost more and mage cost less (assuming ranged makes a good center point). Now if mage costs less , it should be via items such as the SoL, or simply cheaper/need of fewer runes.

How can melee be made to use cost more? Lowering the armour's defence would help in the way of using more food. Maybe make melee potions more expensive then mage/range (7.5k for 5 level mage boost or 3.5k for 2 potions that raise attack and strength by 5 at level 25… or 19 levels at level 99). You could also be really evil, and give melee weapons a degrading effect (wouldn’t you need to resharpen that scimy after trying to cut though all those rune plates?)

 

Truth is though; I don’t really know how this should be done, as there is no real “one way” to do this. At least not without giving up the use of the forums for a week.

 

 

No one should deny that after all this A LOT more still has to be done. But all I set out to do was set what I think the foundation for a truly balanced combat triangle.

 

TL;DR

#1 give mage and ranges different damage types like melee has stab, slash and crush.

 

#2 allow mage and range to adjust there stats is more ways then just getting better. in the same way someone can make a str pure for KO power, let rangers give up accuracy for extra damage etc

 

#3 makes melee a bit more expensive, mage a bit less expensive.

 

P.S. Merry Christmas everyone :)

 

 

 

OT: A fix would be really nice, and I think you've got some really good ideas, I especially like the "Manipulate"-concept (if that'd be the name) - I would so want to pick up a tree and throw at someone's face :mrgreen:

 

Also, this could be combined with 120 stats, if the spellbooks become a bit overcrowded. Of course a completely new spellbook is a possibility.

Food for thought, Baba Yaga on Lunar Isle makes a comment about how the lunar people have learned to use magic without runes...perhaps a new grandmaster quest around the Lunar people where you learn some of this knowlege resulting in a way to (at least temporarily) reduce the number of runes used for any spell. If its temporary give it like 15 min before having to wait an hour to use the effect again?

Thinking from Jagex's perspective, I could invest money in trying to fix a perenial problem that has plagued RuneScape for years and has almost been accepted as right anyway, or I could focus on using the lessons learned from RuneScape's combat system to make sure Stellar Dawn's isn't a failure either. I'd take the latter everyday.

 

Given Jagex have got a new MMORPG coming out next year, I just can't see them busting a gut to fix the combat triangle's problems.

Interesting suggestions, change is far too radical however, and more than likely will never happen, ever.

Interesting suggestions, change is far too radical however, and more than likely will never happen, ever.

 

lets roll back 5 years.

"would jagex ever remove the widly and free tade"

"WHAT? obviusly not!"

 

roll back 10 years

"would runescape become a game worth millions every year?"

"WHAT?! obviusly not!!!"

 

now im not saying this will hapen, but it could.

The problem is that youre trying to make a Mellon, apple and bananas weigh the same. Each class is simply too different in too many ways.

 

Your amazing analogical metaphors would make a communist succumb to democracy.

The problem is that youre trying to make a Mellon, apple and bananas weigh the same. Each class is simply too different in too many ways.

 

Your amazing analogical metaphors would make a communist succumb to democracy.

 

im sorry but what is that ment to mean?

The problem is that youre trying to make a Mellon, apple and bananas weigh the same. Each class is simply too different in too many ways.

 

Your amazing analogical metaphors would make a communist succumb to democracy.

 

im sorry but what is that ment to mean?

 

 

 

In an attempt to make himself seem smarter,

 

 

He has devised some "clever" wordplay in coy failed attempt to make a bit of humour.

I'm not sure about the idea for mage, but sometimes I think they should have made the combat skills completely different than the regular skills.

 

HP 1-99

 

Melee---

Slash Att

Stab Att

Crush Att

Slash Def

Stab Def

Crush Def

Strength

 

Mage---

Mage Att

Mage Str

Mage Def

 

Range---

Range Att

Range Str

Range Def

 

Summ

Summ Def

 

All of the combat skills excluding HP/PRAY/SUMM should go to lvl 70 but go off a different xp formula, lvl 70 = 7.2m XP.

 

However jagex should not implement this because it would be an entirely different game, but would have made the game more customizable if implemented at the beginning.

 

I dont know to much about how summoning Att and Str is calculated.

The problem is that you’re trying to make a Mellon, apple and bananas weigh the same. Each class is simply too different in too many ways.

 

Your amazing analogical metaphors would make a communist succumb to democracy.

 

im sorry but what is that ment to mean?

 

 

 

In an attempt to make himself seem smarter,

 

 

He has devised some "clever" wordplay in coy failed attempt to make a bit of humour.

No.

 

Why are you always so bitter? :shades:

The problem is that youre trying to make a Mellon, apple and bananas weigh the same. Each class is simply too different in too many ways.

 

Your amazing analogical metaphors would make a communist succumb to democracy.

 

im sorry but what is that ment to mean?

 

 

 

In an attempt to make himself seem smarter,

 

 

He has devised some "clever" wordplay in coy failed attempt to make a bit of humour.

No.

 

Why are you always so bitter? :shades:

 

i think where getting of topic here.

The problem is that you’re trying to make a Mellon, apple and bananas weigh the same. Each class is simply too different in too many ways.

 

Your amazing analogical metaphors would make a communist succumb to democracy.

 

im sorry but what is that ment to mean?

 

 

 

In an attempt to make himself seem smarter,

 

 

He has devised some "clever" wordplay in coy failed attempt to make a bit of humour.

No.

 

Why are you always so bitter? :shades:

 

i think where getting of topic here.

Balance is fine as it is; Ahrims, amongst other mage equipment getting substantial melee absorption only helps it more.

 

I do commend Jagex for trying hard to restore the once-lopsided triangle... but now utopia is nearly self-actualized...

Balance is fine as it is; Ahrims, amongst other mage equipment getting substantial melee absorption only helps it more.

 

I do commend Jagex for trying hard to restore the once-lopsided triangle... but now utopia is nearly self-actualized...

 

so do I. but to say things are nearly balanced is pushing it (although it is A LOT more balanced then it was).

 

but that is a bit besdies the point. just say you DO think the triangle was unbalanced, would my sujestions fix that? or at least give the CBT a balanced paltform to built upon?

I've always thought it'd be interesting if they got rid of the Attack and Strength skills by combining your XP in both of them and averaging them, and changing it to the Melee skill.

 

Someone with 75 attack and 75 strength is currently as powerful as someone with 99 range or magic, according to the combat formula.

Balance is fine as it is; Ahrims, amongst other mage equipment getting substantial melee absorption only helps it more.

 

I do commend Jagex for trying hard to restore the once-lopsided triangle... but now utopia is nearly self-actualized...

 

so do I. but to say things are nearly balanced is pushing it (although it is A LOT more balanced then it was).

 

but that is a bit besdies the point. just say you DO think the triangle was unbalanced, would my sujestions fix that? or at least give the CBT a balanced paltform to built upon?

 

The combat triangle is pretty much balanced. Name one imbalanced aspect.