Muscle failure or no?

[Vulxai]

I was curious as to if someone's doing a few sets of say push-ups, or pull-ups, etc. Is it best to go until muscle failure each set (go until you can't do another rep), or set a certain number of reps, or percentage (i.e. 50% of max, 75% of max, etc)?

[Bloodstain]

There's reasons to go to failure and reasons to leave a rep or two in the tank, I just can't remember which is which. Just stick with what your routine says and don't over complicate things, although if you are going to failure, that last rep shouldn't be sloppy ass form just to get one last one in

[oshmannj]

Just do reps of what you feel you're comfortable with in different sets. For example 3 sets of 10 in the morning, 3 sets of 10 in the night.

[stevepole]

I've never gone until my muscles have failed but I feel that would just be a horrible idea for your body and your muscles in the long run. I always just go for a predetermined number of sets & reps for each exercise I do.

[NukeMarine]

Depends on the exercise. For strength training you do not go to failure though. Your 1rm or 3rm or 5rm is based on what you make, not what you missed. Going to failure on 5x5 or other low sets just increases recovery time without increasing your strength.

 

For body weight exercise like Tabata's, the point is to go to failure though it can be gamed with set reps also. A Tabata is 6 or 8 rounds of 20 seconds doing max number of reps followed by 10 seconds of rest. By the last couple of rounds, you're hitting failure early if you are maxing out the earlier rounds.

 

Doing interval training is a variant of muscle failure in the cardio area. It could be running 400m as fast as you can (rest 2 minutes, do it again for 8 rounds total). This can also be done with bike 3/4 mile, row 500m, 25x burpees, 50x 45# kb swings, 50x jumping pull-ups, etc. By trying to finish as fast as you can, you actually are going to failure.

 

But for usual strength training, don't go to failure. Louis Simmons has a 'conjugate method' where you train with weight based off your 1rm, and hit them hard. For example if you have 270# Bench, do 10 rounds of 2 reps at 75% or 205# with a round every minute (so in 10 minutes, you're done). That means bench 205# weight 2x as fast as you can, rest till the next minute and do it again. You're not hitting failure, and you got stronger so when you try a 1rm in 3 days, you'll have increased it most likely. In other words, getting stronger is a mix of finding your max strength, then doing a set portion of that very fast to train power. Works with deadlift, squats, press, pull-ups and variants on those (bands, chains, wobble weights, etc.).

[fastortoise]

In my opinion you should only go to failure when you're doing exercises like pushups, pullups, situps, and squats. You normally won't be using any extra weight in those exercises and so it's harder to get injured, whereas muscle failure on the benchpress without a spotter could kill you. And of course if your last rep isn't proper form then you aren't helping.

[Bloodstain]

whereas muscle failure on the benchpress without a spotter could kill you. And of course if your last rep isn't proper form then you aren't helping.

 

Maybe if you're doing it wrong and bringing the bar to your neck, but if you can place it on your chest and then roll it down to your hips and sit up you'll just get some bruising if it's heavy. Or you could put it on your chest and dump it to one side

[Powman3]

I go to failure during strength training some of the time, but I make sure I a) have a spotter and b) make sure I rep the weight at least ten times.

[Vulxai]

Thanks for the responses, and just for clarifiction, I did mention in my OP that it would be for body weight exercises like pushups, pullups, etc.

[indoroids]

muscle failure? definitely yes, for heavier lower reps and lighter higher reps

[Bloodstain]

Thanks for the responses, and just for clarifiction, I did mention in my OP that it would be for body weight exercises like pushups, pullups, etc.

 

If it's just for calisthenics, go nuts.

[Hobgoblinpie]

Magnus Samuelsson, winner of WSM doesn't believe that you should ever go to muscle failure. To be honest, that's all the reason I need not to get to muscle failure when working out.

[Vulxai]

What exactly would the reasoning be? Is there any noticeable difference from say, doing muscle failure for 5 sets, as to opposed to maybe doing...50%-75% for 5 sets? (For this example, use push-ups and pull-ups)

[Bloodstain]

Too much stress for your CNS for certain goals IIRC

[Vulxai]

Too much stress for your CNS for certain goals IIRC

 

There's a new term for me lol. Just off the top of your head, do you know how much CNS stress the average body can take, or how to figure it out for your own body type?

[jjrox32]

To quote Ray Lewis "If you ain't failing, you ain't progressing."

[aquariusman]

Failure means breakdown of form, which means potential injury and an ineffective workout. For instance, yes, do push-ups until your back starts sagging. Once it sags, you're not working your core as much. Same with pull/chin-ups. Do them until you have to start kipping. If you start cheating on form, you'll just be tiring yourself out by not working what you want in an effective way. But I only think of strength training, not body-building, I guess that there is the potential for failure to help body-builders? I really don't know, but if you're going for strength, don't fail.

[Vulxai]

Failure means breakdown of form

 

That's exactly my thinking. If I cannot do a rep in good form, then I cannot do another rep. Even during my PT tests for the military, there's many guys I see that go down like 3 inches, some sag their back and barely move, I mean, it's almost embarrassing to see it, and I'm not doing it! I do my pushups the same every rep, and I go until I literally fall onto the floor in good form.

[fastortoise]

Failure means breakdown of form

 

That's exactly my thinking. If I cannot do a rep in good form, then I cannot do another rep. Even during my PT tests for the military, there's many guys I see that go down like 3 inches, some sag their back and barely move, I mean, it's almost embarrassing to see it, and I'm not doing it! I do my pushups the same every rep, and I go until I literally fall onto the floor in good form.

Right, we probably should have defined what "muscle failure" meant to each of us before we started giving our opinions. I agree that if you aren't in proper form you shouldn't continue your set, but in my experience I was able to squeeze in a rep or two even with bad form. That's my muscle failure 'line'. I know it's not the ideal way to work out but I make myself believe that if I do "just 1-2 more" then I'll be stronger the next time. I think this is a common mistake amongst lots of us, cause even though I'm aware of my problem I still freaking doing it.

 

I'm more graceful during my last 2 reps than you probably think, but if we're talking 100% efficiency then I'm not doing it right, thats for sure.

[Rainbows]

I tend to go to form failure on the last set of an exercise, to a point. Say, if I do 3 sets of (nominally) 50 press ups, I'll go for 50/50/70, then the next week 60/60/60 .