Skilling and untradeable high level rewards.

[Serens_Hero]

Not too long ago the Herblore skill was updated with untradeable Extreme Potions and Overloads. It granted huge advantages to players who trained their Herblore to an high level.

 

Even though I do not have such an high Herblore level, I particularly liked this updates. It was a great incentive for players to train the skill, instead of buying the potions of higher-levelled players.

 

It got me thinking, why can't that be the case for every other skill?

 

Like a superbow for 95 Fletchers (and a slightly less good bow for lvl 90 Fletchers). Great armour for level 95 Smithers. Instanced dungeons for Expert Slayers. Catching a whale for superfood. These are just quick examples, there could be so many items or powers.

 

Some skills already have this in some sort of way:

- Summoning (Yak, Unicorn, Steel Titan)

- Dungeoneering (Chaotic weapons, other point-rewards)

- Herblore (Extreme Potions)

- Slayer (however I don't think this really counts)

 

In my eyes it only has advantages:

- Great incentive to train all skills

- Skills that have been neglected for long time will be trained again

- Advantages for high levelled players

- New goals

- A reward other than skillcapes for most skills

- Focus of Runescape will be on rather skilling than just making money

 

Of course, Jagex should take care they do not unbalance everything, but it could be implemented in parts. And yeah, it would be harder for low levels, but isn't that the idea of this game? Getting better if you want to compete for certain things?

 

I put this in General Discussion rather than Suggestions because I want to discuss the option to implement untradeable 90+ skill rewards, instead of actually suggesting items or powers for those skills.

[amitoz]

Apparently skills should apply to combat...

 

Which I highly disagree with...

[Bladewing]

what else should it be focused on, then?

 

there is nothing else

[Serens_Hero]

I agree with this, however should everything be combat centered? As in should every untradable reward be there to improve your ability to kill? I suppose that was Jagex's intent with skills in original runescape, and they made it work in Dungeoneering but is it something that should be done with modern RS?

Not everything, but most skills are aiding in combat. For example Fletching - making bows & Fishing - fishing food. However, the skills that don't center about combat could have other unique features. Don't focus too much on my examples.

[Soma2035]

Why should we force players to train skills they do not like to stand a chance? Herblore has essentially become a requirement for monster hunting.

 

As someone who liked Herblore both before and after Extreme potions were released, I still don't like what they've done to the game. People should not be forced to train a non-combat skill that they dislike to stand a chance in hunting medium-high level bosses.

 

There are many ways to make money in the game. Even if some are better than others, it means most players can eventually achieve what they want playing the way they like.

 

Having so many ways to play, and so many ways to achieve the ends you desire, is what makes Runescape, well, Runescape. I'm not saying it's a perfect system, but I think it's much better than seeing all monster hunting spots being taken by teams that are advertised as:

 

"MUST HAVE:

95 Runecrafting for super-powerful non-tradeable rune that casts Fire Nuke Barrage

91 Woodcut and 93 Mining to gather non-tradeable materials for +30% magic damage armor

93 Crafting for non-tradeable +30% magic damage armor

97 Smithing for non-tradeable weapon with a special that reduces magic defense by 50%

94 Farming for non-tradeable herb to make a non-tradeable extreme extreme magic potion"

[Grimy_Bunyip]

what else should it be focused on, then?

 

there is nothing else

make something else.

It just so happens that combat content is the most entertaining atm.

We have dungeoneering, wildy, staking, boss hunting, etc.

 

there's nothing comparable to that for skilling.

So something should be made.

[Soma2035]

what else should it be focused on, then?

 

there is nothing else

make something else.

It just so happens that combat content is the most entertaining atm.

We have dungeoneering, wildy, staking, boss hunting, etc.

 

there's nothing comparable to that for skilling.

So something should be made.

 

When Jagex tries to make something else, we get Fish Flingers. Lol.

[aspeeder]

Catching a whale for superfood.

Eating a whale in one bite :blink:

 

And the only reason the general rs population seems to train skills is either for: combat help (Fm for handcannon for instance), quests either because they like stories or just for certain rewards, for a skillcape, or for minigames/tasks. I personally really don't care one way or another if this changes, though I'd like to see more rewards for mind-numbing skills like agil and rc; as long as it's useful it'd help.

[foursideking]

Don't they already have skillcapes for these? And effigies? Don't get me wrong, the idea sounds decent, but it'd only really be useful if you gave it to useless skills, ie:

 

Firemaking- maybe give people the option to auto-make fires w/o a tinderbox at 85fm?

Construction- allow people to build/setup barracades, or allow players to build/setup constructable gathering familiars?

[Serens_Hero]

Why should we force players to train skills they do not like to stand a chance? Herblore has essentially become a requirement for monster hunting.

 

As someone who liked Herblore both before and after Extreme potions were released, I still don't like what they've done to the game. People should not be forced to train a non-combat skill that they dislike to stand a chance in hunting medium-high level bosses.

 

There are many ways to make money in the game. Even if some are better than others, it means most players can eventually achieve what they want playing the way they like.

 

Having so many ways to play, and so many ways to achieve the ends you desire, is what makes Runescape, well, Runescape. I'm not saying it's a perfect system, but I think it's much better than seeing all monster hunting spots being taken by teams that are advertised as:

 

"MUST HAVE:

95 Runecrafting for super-powerful non-tradeable rune that casts Fire Nuke Barrage

91 Woodcut and 93 Mining to gather non-tradeable materials for +30% magic damage armor

93 Crafting for non-tradeable +30% magic damage armor

97 Smithing for non-tradeable weapon with a special that reduces magic defense by 50%

94 Farming for non-tradeable herb to make a non-tradeable extreme extreme magic potion"

I disagree. It is not impossible to slay bosses at the God Wars Dungeon without Yaks and Unicorns. It is not impossible to fight the Corporeal Beast without Extreme Potions - it just is a bit harder, which I think is fair as people who put that much time in a combat-aiding skill deserve an advantage over those who do not.

 

Thank you for the constructive reply, though.

[Soma2035]

Why should we force players to train skills they do not like to stand a chance? Herblore has essentially become a requirement for monster hunting.

 

As someone who liked Herblore both before and after Extreme potions were released, I still don't like what they've done to the game. People should not be forced to train a non-combat skill that they dislike to stand a chance in hunting medium-high level bosses.

 

There are many ways to make money in the game. Even if some are better than others, it means most players can eventually achieve what they want playing the way they like.

 

Having so many ways to play, and so many ways to achieve the ends you desire, is what makes Runescape, well, Runescape. I'm not saying it's a perfect system, but I think it's much better than seeing all monster hunting spots being taken by teams that are advertised as:

 

"MUST HAVE:

95 Runecrafting for super-powerful non-tradeable rune that casts Fire Nuke Barrage

91 Woodcut and 93 Mining to gather non-tradeable materials for +30% magic damage armor

93 Crafting for non-tradeable +30% magic damage armor

97 Smithing for non-tradeable weapon with a special that reduces magic defense by 50%

94 Farming for non-tradeable herb to make a non-tradeable extreme extreme magic potion"

I disagree. It is not impossible to slay bosses at the God Wars Dungeon without Yaks and Unicorns. It is not impossible to fight the Corporeal Beast without Extreme Potions - it just is a bit harder, which I think is fair as people who put that much time in a combat-aiding skill deserve an advantage over those who do not.

 

Thank you for the constructive reply, though.

 

I didn't say anything about Yaks and Unicorns, did I? Summoning is a combat skill. It's trained through combat, as well, through the dropped charms, and the actual act of making the pouches is pretty much a formality.

 

But yes, you do need Extreme Potions to slay bosses at the God Wars Dungeon without interference, unless you're playing at odd times. And most players do not have the luxury of saying "Oh, I'll just play at 4 in the morning when everyone's in bed."

 

I am 138, with maxed out offensive gear, Overloads, special restore potions, and Dragon Claws. And every trip I've done to Bandos since free-trade has come back, I've gotten crashed. If it's on a lootshare world, it's by a team of five people just like me. If it's on a non-lootshare world, it's by a single person who figures he might as well go 50-50 with me. Take this situation again, only without the Overloads and special restore potions. You're getting crashed every trip and after that happens, you may as well leave because you're not getting kills. Being able to special twice for EVERY kill with more accuracy and more strength is just too much.

 

Since the Extreme potions update, I've watched tons of friends pour time and money into a skill they detest, because without it, they don't stand a chance in a lot of combat activities. Even now, any half-decent Corporeal Beast team will not take anyone who doesn't have Turmoil and Overloads. And people crash at Corp, too (at least last time I went with a couple friends, we got crashed).

 

Runescape is a game, and games are meant to be fun. No one should have to spend hundreds of hours in a skill they absolutely hate just so they can have a fighting chance.

[Quyneax]

Herblore is considered a non-combat skill - yet it's very relevant to combat. Firemaking and agility to a lesser degree, and many quest requirements.

 

I think the distinction between combat and non-combat can be made more vague. Currently there are a few crossovers - living rock caverns, dungeoneering (to a lesser degree of course) etcetera.

 

Having low combat stats currently make it harder to make large amounts of money, which makes buyable skills harder. Many quests require combat. Dungeoneering requires combat. The ape atoll course requires combat to access - that's where you can expect to get 70-80 agility. In short, combat is required for quite a lot of non-combat content. I don't mind this being turned around also.

[Soma2035]

Herblore is considered a non-combat skill - yet it's very relevant to combat. Firemaking and agility to a lesser degree, and many quest requirements.

 

I think the distinction between combat and non-combat can be made more vague. Currently there are a few crossovers - living rock caverns, dungeoneering (to a lesser degree of course) etcetera.

 

Having low combat stats currently make it harder to make large amounts of money, which makes buyable skills harder. Many quests require combat. Dungeoneering requires combat. The ape atoll course requires combat to access - that's where you can expect to get 70-80 agility. In short, combat is required for quite a lot of non-combat content. I don't mind this being turned around also.

 

Non-combat and combat do cross-over, but at the same time, there are usually alternatives.

 

If you don't like training combat and thus can't trade at the monkey agility course, there are still a lot of other ways to achieve the same ends, and the gap separating them is relatively small. If you don't like training combat, you can still find team mates who enjoy combat and just skill in Dungeoneering - there are a lot of skillers with fairly high dungeoneering already.

 

I don't mind turning it around if you're providing alternates, but Extremes are not an alternate - they're overwhelming. Mid-high level boss hunting for profit is really limited to three things - Bandos GWD, Armadyl GWD, and Dagannoth Kings. The other two God Wars Dungeon bosses drop far too little in comparison, and other bosses are on different tiers (KBD can't really be compared with them, nor can Nex.) However, not having Extreme rules out all three of them, as crashers abound at all three places. In fact, at Dagannoth Kings, crashers now try to kill you for your items, too.

 

Other people using the Ape Atoll agility course doesn't affect you very much when you use the Werewolf course. Other people using Extremes has a huge effect on you when you don't use them.

 

I'm all for rewarding people for high skills, but in the competitive combat situation we have today, all that does is force players to train skills they don't like, because they aren't really given any other choices.

 

On the other hand, an idea that's been posted many times here and on RSOF with regards to Extremes would fix this problem nicely - add a store that sells a limited amount of Extremes at higher prices, or add Extremes as rewards to high level treasure trails. Instead of an "Herblore-or-bust" approach, reward people that train herblore, but still provide alternative methods to people who dislike that skill.

[Crossed_Body]

Non-combat and combat do cross-over, but at the same time, there are usually alternatives.

And that's where you're wrong. Skilling is useless compared to combat, it's not an alternative at all. Combat gives you several times the money that any skill might, so I'm not seeing what "alternative" they could be.

 

Ontopic:

 

I do believe that more untradeable rewards should be made available. Both for combat and non-combat skills.

Ex: For mining/smithing, an untradeable ore to create better armors/weapons/TOOLS, a tier higher than dragon tools/armor/weapons.

 

Agility already has some, weight reducing gear and shortcuts. Not combat related at all, so combat-unrelated rewards are possible.

 

I'm all for rewarding people for high skills, but in the competitive combat situation we have today, all that does is force players to train skills they don't like, because they aren't really given any other choices.

 

You can't say "I don't like that skill, therefore nobody should reap profit from it". Herblore has been combat related since attack potions were around, so if you choose not to train herblore to gain extreme potions, you're on par with a pure that says "I don't like training def, therefore you should lower the attack of the monsters I want to kill".

 

In an MMO, in order to be competitive you need to train every skill, like it or not. Remember, there are lots of skills, and they all should be treated the same.

[Serens_Hero]

Herblore is considered a non-combat skill - yet it's very relevant to combat. Firemaking and agility to a lesser degree, and many quest requirements.

 

I think the distinction between combat and non-combat can be made more vague. Currently there are a few crossovers - living rock caverns, dungeoneering (to a lesser degree of course) etcetera.

 

Having low combat stats currently make it harder to make large amounts of money, which makes buyable skills harder. Many quests require combat. Dungeoneering requires combat. The ape atoll course requires combat to access - that's where you can expect to get 70-80 agility. In short, combat is required for quite a lot of non-combat content. I don't mind this being turned around also.

 

Non-combat and combat do cross-over, but at the same time, there are usually alternatives.

 

If you don't like training combat and thus can't trade at the monkey agility course, there are still a lot of other ways to achieve the same ends, and the gap separating them is relatively small. If you don't like training combat, you can still find team mates who enjoy combat and just skill in Dungeoneering - there are a lot of skillers with fairly high dungeoneering already.

 

I don't mind turning it around if you're providing alternates, but Extremes are not an alternate - they're overwhelming. Mid-high level boss hunting for profit is really limited to three things - Bandos GWD, Armadyl GWD, and Dagannoth Kings. The other two God Wars Dungeon bosses drop far too little in comparison, and other bosses are on different tiers (KBD can't really be compared with them, nor can Nex.) However, not having Extreme rules out all three of them, as crashers abound at all three places. In fact, at Dagannoth Kings, crashers now try to kill you for your items, too.

 

Other people using the Ape Atoll agility course doesn't affect you very much when you use the Werewolf course. Other people using Extremes has a huge effect on you when you don't use them.

 

I'm all for rewarding people for high skills, but in the competitive combat situation we have today, all that does is force players to train skills they don't like, because they aren't really given any other choices.

 

On the other hand, an idea that's been posted many times here and on RSOF with regards to Extremes would fix this problem nicely - add a store that sells a limited amount of Extremes at higher prices, or add Extremes as rewards to high level treasure trails. Instead of an "Herblore-or-bust" approach, reward people that train herblore, but still provide alternative methods to people who dislike that skill.

But isn't that another discussion? That with the growing and higher levelled community there are too few spots? Perhaps there could be instanced dungeons (as a high level Slayer reward)? Because this isn't really the fault of Herblore only, but of the heavy competition for the few bosses there are in Runescape.

[Sir_Squab]

Non-combat and combat do cross-over, but at the same time, there are usually alternatives.

And that's where you're wrong. Skilling is useless compared to combat, it's not an alternative at all. Combat gives you several times the money that any skill might, so I'm not seeing what "alternative" they could be.

 

Ontopic:

 

I do believe that more untradeable rewards should be made available. Both for combat and non-combat skills.

Ex: For mining/smithing, an untradeable ore to create better armors/weapons/TOOLS, a tier higher than dragon tools/armor/weapons.

 

Agility already has some, weight reducing gear and shortcuts. Not combat related at all, so combat-unrelated rewards are possible.

 

I'm all for rewarding people for high skills, but in the competitive combat situation we have today, all that does is force players to train skills they don't like, because they aren't really given any other choices.

 

You can't say "I don't like that skill, therefore nobody should reap profit from it". Herblore has been combat related since attack potions were around, so if you choose not to train herblore to gain extreme potions, you're on par with a pure that says "I don't like training def, therefore you should lower the attack of the monsters I want to kill".

 

In an MMO, in order to be competitive you need to train every skill, like it or not. Remember, there are lots of skills, and they all should be treated the same.

 

Before extremes, you could BUY said potions. Personally, I think the best (and most unrealistic) solution is to not only make extremes tradeable, but remove skillcapes. Skillcapes is imho at least half the reason extremes were needed - with skilcapes, many skills like herblore became a money sink, with people dumping money into it just to get 99, rather then stop at the most useful level. (Which at the time was 81 for the highest potion.) IF the mentality of RS was to only make the highest end potions for their own personal use or for profit, herblore would be in a much better scenario - people with herblore save money on potions or make money selling them, whereas people without herblore buy them. The real issue is that people make potions more or less for the SAKE of making potions.

[Crossed_Body]

Before extremes, you could BUY said potions. Personally, I think the best (and most unrealistic) solution is to not only make extremes tradeable, but remove skillcapes.

 

Yes, remove the only tangible reward for training the skill. That will definitely make the skill more fun.

 

 

Currently, the only incentive besides reputation that gathering and production skill have are the untradeable rewards. That's why skills like smithing, crafting and fletching are useless, and are treater as total level fodder.

[Soma2035]

Before extremes, you could BUY said potions. Personally, I think the best (and most unrealistic) solution is to not only make extremes tradeable, but remove skillcapes.

 

Yes, remove the only tangible reward for training the skill. That will definitely make the skill more fun.

 

 

Currently, the only incentive besides reputation that gathering and production skill have are the untradeable rewards. That's why skills like smithing, crafting and fletching are useless, and are treater as total level fodder.

 

That's a problem with skills then.

 

If something is boring and no one likes it, you make it more interesting somehow, not force players to suffer through boredom for exclusive rewards...

 

You can't say "I don't like that skill, therefore nobody should reap profit from it". Herblore has been combat related since attack potions were around, so if you choose not to train herblore to gain extreme potions, you're on par with a pure that says "I don't like training def, therefore you should lower the attack of the monsters I want to kill".

 

In an MMO, in order to be competitive you need to train every skill, like it or not. Remember, there are lots of skills, and they all should be treated the same.

 

What do you mean "In an MMO"? I've never heard of an MMO where the best combat items are a solid tier ahead of the next-best, are untradeable or bind-on-pickup, and can only be obtained through completely combat-irrelevant activities like making potions. Besides Runescape, of course.

[Bladewing]

for one, PWI

[Crossed_Body]

That's a problem with skills then.

 

If something is boring and no one likes it, you make it more interesting somehow, not force players to suffer through boredom for exclusive rewards...

Even if you sudenly invent an awesome way to turn runecrafting into an exciting skill, it's still only work if the experience rate was doubled or even tripled. Why? Because no matter how fun, after doing it thousands of times it gets dull.

An MMO has always been a grinding competition. In the end, if you have nothing worthwhile to show for your grind, people will be less inclined to do it.

 

What do you mean "In an MMO"? I've never heard of an MMO where the best combat items are a solid tier ahead of the next-best, are untradeable or bind-on-pickup, and can only be obtained through completely combat-irrelevant activities like making potions. Besides Runescape, of course.

You don't play many MMOs then.

[Sylpheed]

Before extremes, you could BUY said potions. Personally, I think the best (and most unrealistic) solution is to not only make extremes tradeable, but remove skillcapes.

 

Yes, remove the only tangible reward for training the skill. That will definitely make the skill more fun.

 

 

Currently, the only incentive besides reputation that gathering and production skill have are the untradeable rewards. That's why skills like smithing, crafting and fletching are useless, and are treater as total level fodder.

 

A thousand times this. Unless a skill has a high level untraceable reward to it, there is just no reason to level the skill at all. Prayer and Herblore and even Construction to a certain extent (but albeit completely different reason) are all expensive to train because they offer rewards that cannot be bought.

 

Taking Slayer as an example, look at the prices of whips and SoL's, all of the unique drops from Slayer are starting to hit rock bottom because the spoils are tradeable. Unless a skill has an untraceable reward it may aswell not exist.

[Soma2035]

That's a problem with skills then.

 

If something is boring and no one likes it, you make it more interesting somehow, not force players to suffer through boredom for exclusive rewards...

Even if you sudenly invent an awesome way to turn runecrafting into an exciting skill, it's still only work if the experience rate was doubled or even tripled. Why? Because no matter how fun, after doing it thousands of times it gets dull.

An MMO has always been a grinding competition. In the end, if you have nothing worthwhile to show for your grind, people will be less inclined to do it.

 

What do you mean "In an MMO"? I've never heard of an MMO where the best combat items are a solid tier ahead of the next-best, are untradeable or bind-on-pickup, and can only be obtained through completely combat-irrelevant activities like making potions. Besides Runescape, of course.

You don't play many MMOs then.

 

Sorry, I should've said large MMOs. You're right, I don't play many MMOs. But I've never heard of a World of Warcraft player spending 200 hours making their own armor because the absolute best armor with no alternatives comes from making it yourself.

 

With regards to making skills fun, GOP would've been a great method to make RC entertaining, if Jagex hadn't gimped the rewards completely. Despite the fact that the game was horribly glitched for YEARS, it created a fairly strong, albeit small, community of competitive players. People who spend hundreds of hours playing for fun, and wind up with millions of tokens that they don't actually use. Now, just imagine if a) Jagex actually cared enough to make the game work properly and not randomly assign wins and losses, and b) the reward tokens could be traded for a fair amount of experience. Ta-da, you have a new method of Runecrafting that might be worse in XP/hour, but is still appealing to certain crowds.

 

Look at farming. Runescape farming consists of having your farmers watch your plants while you do whatever, and check on them. Does it have to be like this? Farmville says otherwise. While I personally don't see any sense in Farmville, there are tons of people who love it. Other games, like the Harvest Moon series, have made farming quite complex and robust. Even without improving the farming system, there are people who actually enjoy playing Vine Sweeper, just like there are people who kill time with Mine Sweeper. After a thousand times, it's the same thing, but people still play Mine Sweeper anyways... and there are people who still play Vine Sweeper too.

 

Skills don't have to be mundane and boring. Skills aren't all mundane and boring either - they appeal to different people. People who enjoy the skills should be the ones doing the skills.

 

A thousand times this. Unless a skill has a high level untraceable reward to it, there is just no reason to level the skill at all. Prayer and Herblore and even Construction to a certain extent (but albeit completely different reason) are all expensive to train because they offer rewards that cannot be bought.

 

Taking Slayer as an example, look at the prices of whips and SoL's, all of the unique drops from Slayer are starting to hit rock bottom because the spoils are tradeable. Unless a skill has an untraceable reward it may aswell not exist.

 

I hate to break it to you, but there are thousands of people who just slay because they like slayer. The money is secondary - it's not even a lot compared to how much the slayers could make doing other things. Some people even get 99 slayer multiple times on different accounts because it's their favorite skill...

[Crossed_Body]

People who enjoy the skills should be the ones doing the skills.

Wrong again. Enjoying something doesn't mean you're entitled to that something, especially not over other people. Sometimes, you have to do things you don't like, to further increase the joy of doing things you like.

 

 

I hate to break it to you, but there are thousands of people who just slay because they like slayer. The money is secondary - it's not even a lot compared to how much the slayers could make doing other things. Some people even get 99 slayer multiple times on different accounts because it's their favorite skill...

 

I enjoy slayer. I have over 18 million exp on the skill, and I keep doing it. Would an untradeable reward specific to slayer enhance the joy I get from training the skill, and even bring more people to like it?

Yes.

[Soma2035]

People who enjoy the skills should be the ones doing the skills.

Wrong again. Enjoying something doesn't mean you're entitled to that something, especially not over other people. Sometimes, you have to do things you don't like, to further increase the joy of doing things you like.

 

 

I hate to break it to you, but there are thousands of people who just slay because they like slayer. The money is secondary - it's not even a lot compared to how much the slayers could make doing other things. Some people even get 99 slayer multiple times on different accounts because it's their favorite skill...

 

I enjoy slayer. I have over 18 million exp on the skill, and I keep doing it. Would an untradeable reward specific to slayer enhance the joy I get from training the skill, and even bring more people to like it?

Yes.

 

I fail to see how forcing players to do something they hate in order to make doing something they like possible makes the game better.

 

If it was a matter of making getting Extreme Potions EASIER, or making a boss fight EASIER, then yes, I would wholeheartedly agree. But it isn't. There is no other way to replicate these bonuses, and without them, the enjoyment of an activity is significantly reduced. And having 15 different bonuses of this type just means you'll need to spend 1000+ hours on 15 distinct skills, most of which you probably do not like, just to be able to enjoy what you do NOW. And that is ridiculous.

 

I don't want to have to get 99 Farming for new textiles, 99 Mining to get a new Jewel, 99 Smithing to set the Jewel into a little golden decoration, 99 Crafting to craft the textiles into armor and attach the set Jewel into a staff, and 99 Runecrafting to enchant the new robes just so I can have a chance against 50 crashers at Bandos wearing that set of gear.

 

If you think making the game that cumbersome is a good thing, then this is a rather fruitless conversation, since you're apparently either a sadist or a masochist. Or both.

[Obtaurian]

Soma,

 

What skill does not come back to combat in some way, not including minigames based on certain skills (eg: GOP)? Off the top of my head, the only things I can think of are kingly imps and a large chunk of the construction skill (and unsurprisingly, skillers tend to love construction). Whether or not it's right or wrong is moot -- everything in Runescape revolves around combat; you either kill stuff or you support the people who kill stuff.

 

I see nothing wrong with making non-combat kills genuinely useful by giving them untradeable rewards. As it stands, most non-combats are entirely pointless other than giving you more options for making cutesy outfits at level 99.