aeternitatis Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Exactly. The reasons to legalize it completely outweigh the reasons not to. The government wants control. :/ "Only by going too far can one find out how far one can go." T.S. Eliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furah Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 What if, by keeping the drugs illegal, we were putting them in situations which lead to crime, death, and other causes of social burden? Would you be willing to admit that you were wrong?If the law says "Don't do X", and someone does x, it isn't the law that made their decision to do x.Focus on the bolded part, with a word placed in there that I'd forgotten to put in the sentence in the first place (the word is to.) If we could reduce the rates of those things, along with reduce the number of new users by making it legally obtainable, would you admit that you were wrong? Steam | PM me for BBM PIN Nine naked men is a technological achievement. Quote of 2013. PCGamingWiki - Let's fix PC gaming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Gabe Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 What if, by keeping the drugs illegal, we were putting them in situations which lead to crime, death, and other causes of social burden? Would you be willing to admit that you were wrong?If the law says "Don't do X", and someone does x, it isn't the law that made their decision to do x.Focus on the bolded part, with a word placed in there that I'd forgotten to put in the sentence in the first place (the word is to.) If we could reduce the rates of those things, along with reduce the number of new users by making it legally obtainable, would you admit that you were wrong? That's still all hypothetical. I personally would not see how you'd get a reduced number of new users if you make it legally obtainable. Three months banishment to 9gag is something i would never wish upon anybody, not even my worst enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sees_all1 Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 What if, by keeping the drugs illegal, we were putting them in situations which lead to crime, death, and other causes of social burden? Would you be willing to admit that you were wrong?If the law says "Don't do X", and someone does x, it isn't the law that made their decision to do x.Focus on the bolded part, with a word placed in there that I'd forgotten to put in the sentence in the first place (the word is to.) If we could reduce the rates of those things, along with reduce the number of new users by making it legally obtainable, would you admit that you were wrong?What is it I'm supposed to be wrong about? 99 dungeoneering achieved, thanks to everyone that celebrated with me! ♪♪ Don't interrupt me as I struggle to complete this thoughtHave some respect for someone more forgetful than yourself ♪♪♪♪ And I'm not doneAnd I won't be till my head falls off ♪♪ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furah Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 What is it I'm supposed to be wrong about?That keeping drugs illegal keeps people safer, and is less of a burden on society. Steam | PM me for BBM PIN Nine naked men is a technological achievement. Quote of 2013. PCGamingWiki - Let's fix PC gaming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sees_all1 Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 What is it I'm supposed to be wrong about?That keeping drugs illegal keeps people safer, and is less of a burden on society.And what is the baseline we're going on? 99 dungeoneering achieved, thanks to everyone that celebrated with me! ♪♪ Don't interrupt me as I struggle to complete this thoughtHave some respect for someone more forgetful than yourself ♪♪♪♪ And I'm not doneAnd I won't be till my head falls off ♪♪ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crocefisso Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 I've yet to see anything statistical or objective on this thread in favour of legalising marijuana. All the arguments are quite flimsy, libertarian and a bit vague. "Imagine yourself surrounded by the most horrible cripples and maniacs it is possible to conceive, and you may understand a little of my feelings with these grotesque caricatures of humanity about me." - H.G. Wells, The Island of Doctor Moreau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeternitatis Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 The U.S. spends more than 42 billion dollars annually on weed alone. Government stops marijuana research after finding out it slowed cancer growth. There's plenty of legitimate evidence... "Only by going too far can one find out how far one can go." T.S. Eliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomrombom Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 I've yet to see anything statistical or objective on this thread in favour of legalising marijuana. All the arguments are quite flimsy, libertarian and a bit vague. Is there any statistical or objective reason to legalize alcohol or tobacco? Edit: http://forum.grasscity.com/medical-marijuana/645925-grannys-mmj-list-july-2010-a.html 420 links to reports/studies about either marijuana curing things, helping with symptoms, beneficial uses, etc. Edit: In relation to the links above, decriminalization does not lead to more cannabis use, and isn't the point of it being illegal so that people don't do it? http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=3383 PM me for fitocracy invite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obfuscator Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Alcohol, when not abused, has no harmful side effects whatsoever. It's not possible to take marijuana and avoid the side effects. "It's not a rest for me, it's a rest for the weights." - Dom Mazzetti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomrombom Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Alcohol, when not abused, has no harmful side effects whatsoever. It's not possible to take marijuana and avoid the side effects. Eat it? Vaporize it? PM me for fitocracy invite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zierro Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Nom is correct. It is not the marijuana itself that has physical health detriments, but the smoking of it which happens to be the most popular form of intake. As for the mental health detriments, that could be a different story. Some individuals just cannot handle even the mildest of drugs responsibly. But this is no reason to make a substance illegal for everybody. As evidenced on this page, the burden of having tons of harmless people crowding our prisons and the taxes we have to pay in order to "combat" the detrimental effects of weed is substantially more detrimental to our society as a whole than a few idiots doing stupid things while they're high. Also take into account that it's illegal status gives government regulators less credibility when it comes to public health concern (when you take into account they are profiting off one of the top causes of death), it fuels an underground thug economy, and that smoking it has actually become more popular since it's become illegal. The Prohibition Act never solved anything, has it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furah Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Alcohol, when not abused, has no harmful side effects whatsoever. It's not possible to take marijuana and avoid the side effects.Alcohol, even in small doses, damages your liver. Steam | PM me for BBM PIN Nine naked men is a technological achievement. Quote of 2013. PCGamingWiki - Let's fix PC gaming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magekillr Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 At the end of the day, tobacco and alcohol are legal because they've been integral parts of global society for centuries and, in the case of the latter, millennia. You can't really ban them, they're too intergrated. Marijuana has not been, and I think the only reason it should be outlawed is because otherwise people will keep pushing the line back until real, dangerous drugs are legalised, e.g. heroin, LSD. Besides, legalising it hasn't done The Netherlands any favours.Cannabis and Opiates have both been used for tens of thousands of years. Cannabis has even been used for medical purposes for thousands of years. And the Netherlands hasn't legalized it. It's a pseudo-legalization limbo. Portugal has decriminalized and refocused resources on education and rehab, and it has done that country many favors. There are various ins and outs to this' date=' but as I understand it there are two main problems with the status quo. One is that under the old tolerance regime there’s still no way for a coffee shop to legally obtain the supply of marijuana you need to operate on the scale of a business. Consequently, de facto legalization hasn’t actually eliminated the black market and associated criminality. Secondarily, the main market for the coffee shops turns out to be drug tourists from abroad. That reduces the Dutch political constituency for keeping them open. And the two factors interact together to create a situation where there’s a strong case to be made that legal coffee shops (by bringing drug tourists from the UK and the US into shops that need to tap an illegal wholesale market to gain their supplies) increase the scale of organized crime in the Netherlands.I think that if you’re looking for stable alternatives to prohibition you either need to more to a more robust form legalization than the Dutch had—complete with totally legitimate marijuana farmers—or else adopt the Mark Kleiman “grow your own” proposal in which growing pot, smoking pot, possessing pot, etc are all legal but commerce in marijuana would be illegal.[/quote'] The point is, prohibition sucks; just like prohibition of prostitution sucks (there are viable alternatives to prohibition that don't include legalization). If you think it should stay illegal -- fine. But at least put resources where they matter (education and rehabilitation...not to prisons and police). You say you don't see any viable objective arguments in favor of legalization, well I don't see any in favor of prohibition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furah Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 I think you quoted the wrong person, I'm all in favour of legalisation. Steam | PM me for BBM PIN Nine naked men is a technological achievement. Quote of 2013. PCGamingWiki - Let's fix PC gaming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magekillr Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 I think you quoted the wrong person, I'm all in favour of legalisation. No I quoted you because you made a good point -- cannabis has in fact been in our culture for a long time (just not contemporary culture). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 I personally would not see how you'd get a reduced number of new users if you make it legally obtainable. I don't think that's the object of legalisation. Most people just want to be able to get high without fear of breaking any laws / getting arrested. 2257AD.TUMBLR.COM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomrombom Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 I personally would not see how you'd get a reduced number of new users if you make it legally obtainable. I don't think that's the object of legalisation. Most people just want to be able to get high without fear of breaking any laws / getting arrested. Yep. What are your thoughts on it? PM me for fitocracy invite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 I'm pro choice - use it if you want - it's relatively harmless, but if you gain any ill effects from it's usage, the healthcare system shouldn't have to treat you - though this only really applies to countries with public, taxpayer funded healthcare. 2257AD.TUMBLR.COM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomrombom Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 I'm pro choice - use it if you want - it's relatively harmless, but if you gain any ill effects from it's usage, the healthcare system shouldn't have to treat you - though this only really applies to countries with public, taxpayer funded healthcare. Orly? Healthcare treats people who get diseases from alcohol, or get diseases due to tobacco use. I agree that if you put a burden on the healthcare system due to smoking you should pay extra, but still receive the same quality care. PM me for fitocracy invite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magekillr Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 I don't understand how people can say we shouldn't allow the health care system to pay for people who use it if it were legalized. That's not logical. Should tax payers be funding rehabilitation while it's illegal? If so, why the discrepancy? It's the same [cabbage] with abortion. "Oh I think it should be legal, but the taxpayers shouldn't pay for it." Why? It's health care, and it's not some cosmetic change like breast implants or Botox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginger_Warrior Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 You're a nurse in an A&E ward. Your job is to treat the sick and the ill, not judge whether the reason they are there in the first place is worthy or not. The idea that the NHS shouldn't treat drug users is frankly ridiculous and shows total ignorance to the fundamental values which underpin the medical profession. | Favourite Game Music | Last.fm | HYT Friend Chat Rules | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 I don't think people should be treated if they've drunk alcohol or smoked tobacco excessively either. 2257AD.TUMBLR.COM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginger_Warrior Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Why? | Favourite Game Music | Last.fm | HYT Friend Chat Rules | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obfuscator Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Well, because they're doing it to themselves. Same thing applies to people who try to commit suicide, or do something foolhardy that ends up with them getting injured. I don't agree, but I get it. I understand why people don't want to see their money wasted on people who make no effort to keep themselves healthy. "It's not a rest for me, it's a rest for the weights." - Dom Mazzetti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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