Israel vs Palestine

[The_Gabe]

terrorism is a loosely defined word.

 

The Americans terrorized the British empire.

 

The Americans defended themselves from the tyranny of the British.

 

 

i'm sorry, but whats the justification for that playground in the youtube video? a hideout? engineering? can't drive around?

 

 

I'm not going to defend the actions in that video, but I'm not going to condemn them until all facts are put on the table.

 

Meet the Israeli who denies the existence of the Palestinian people.

Yes, there are people like that, but they are not common. Post Israelis want peace and to be recognized as a country and with the negotiations they still offered painful sacrifices , but the Palestinians still demand the annihilation of the Zionist entity. Want proof? The PLO Charter and the Hamas Charter say it all.

 

The Zionists terrorized the British to get them to sign the Balfour declaration. One of the most notable terrorist acts committed by the Zionists was the King David Hotel bombing. Of course Zionists prefer to talk about the holocaust rather then their history as terrorists.

 

You seemed to forget that the bombing was called in and gave them a warning to evacuate, which they refused, and it was a response to Operation Agatha.

[ISREAL63]

The Zionists terrorized the British to get them to sign the Balfour declaration. One of the most notable terrorist acts committed by the Zionists was the King David Hotel bombing. Of course Zionists prefer to talk about the holocaust rather then their history as terrorists.

 

The Jews didn't terrorize the British for the Balfour declaration. The Balfour declaration was made before the British mandate.

 

House demolition is typically justified by the IDF on the basis of:

* Deterrence, achieved by harming the relatives of those who carry out, or are suspected of involvement in carrying out, attacks

* Counter-terrorism, by destroying militant facilities such as bombs Laboratory, headquarters, and offices

* Forcing out an individual barricaded inside a house, which may be rigged with explosives, without risking soldiers' lives

* Self-defense, by destroying possible hideouts and rocket propelled Israel's top court approves razing Palestinian homes

* Combat engineering, clearing a path for tanks and heavy armored personnel carriers

 

With these 5 reason are there any problems?

 

I see you like to repeat yourself so i will do the same. 4 out of these reasons fall under international law. The last one is very simple to avoid simply don't commit a act of terrorism so i repeat myself what is the problem with these reason?

[Napalm]

terrorism is a loosely defined word.

 

The Americans terrorized the British empire.

 

The Americans defended themselves from the tyranny of the British.

 

 

So if we were to apply this to our scenario... Palestinians are not terrorists because they defend themselves from the tyranny of the Israelis?

 

Well, it actually makes sense, thanks for clearing that up.

[ISREAL63]

The Zionists terrorized the British to get them to sign the Balfour declaration. One of the most notable terrorist acts committed by the Zionists was the King David Hotel bombing. Of course Zionists prefer to talk about the holocaust rather then their history as terrorists.

 

You seemed to forget that the bombing was called in and gave them a warning to evacuate, which they refused, and it was a response to Operation Agatha.

 

This is another difference between the Jewish extremist and the Palestinian terrorist. Jews warned before they attacked. They had a target it involved the British headquarters. Incidence like this happen all the time where the British were warned to remove their troops and have the target blown up, that is how you fight not by blowing yourself up in a cafe.

[Nifflin]

@Isreal63 on the previous page

 

The Zionists used terror tactics in order to force the British to give up Palestine to them. My point is the 'terrorism' is a very loose conflict. Currently it seems that it is what superpowers label any aggression towards them. But lets face it, the Americans uses terror tactics to gain independence, the Zionists used them to form their states, and the Palestinians use them to defend their homes. Being a terrorist isn't inherently bad.

 

Not all demolishings are for those reasons. That is the problem. And the ones that aren't are not within international law. Multiple international organizations agree on this including the UN, Red Cross, Amnesty International and the Human Rights Watch. Are they all wrong?

 

Edit: @ The above. The Palestinians have made it pretty clear that if the Zionists left Palestine they would cease their aggression. The Zionists don't so they are justified in their aggression. Isn't that the same thing?

[Napalm]

The Zionists terrorized the British to get them to sign the Balfour declaration. One of the most notable terrorist acts committed by the Zionists was the King David Hotel bombing. Of course Zionists prefer to talk about the holocaust rather then their history as terrorists.

 

You seemed to forget that the bombing was called in and gave them a warning to evacuate, which they refused, and it was a response to Operation Agatha.

 

This is another difference between the Jewish extremist and the Palestinian terrorist. Jews warned before they attacked. They had a target it involved the British headquarters. Incidence like this happen all the time where the British were warned to remove their troops and have the target blown up, that is how you fight not by blowing yourself up in a cafe.

 

Just because they warned doesn't mean they didn't kill several people by blowing up a place with civilians. They are still guilty of that.

[Nifflin]

terrorism is a loosely defined word.

 

The Americans terrorized the British empire.

 

The Americans defended themselves from the tyranny of the British.

 

 

Palestinians are defending themselves from the tyranny of Jewish occupation [see what I did there?]

 

Well done. =D>

[Nomrombom]

Why can't you just stay on topic you have posted before in the topic but you have never said anything constructive only attack Mine and The Gabe's creditability.

 

 

Two posts asking for someone to explain what you were saying (due to horrible grammar and punctuation) and one offering an opinion on someone else's link.

 

Real attacks on their "credibility", amirite guise

[ISREAL63]

The Zionists used terror tactics in order to force the British to give up Palestine to them. My point is the 'terrorism' is a very loose conflict. Currently it seems that it is what superpowers label any aggression towards them. But lets face it, the Americans uses terror tactics to gain independence, the Zionists used them to form their states, and the Palestinians use them to defend their homes. Being a terrorist isn't inherently bad.

 

The Palestinians have made it pretty clear that if the Zionists left Palestine they would cease their aggression. The Zionists don't so they are justified in their aggression. Isn't that the same thing?

 

The deference between the Jews and the Palestinians is, the Jews they went after British soldiers which is basic war fare take down the enemy's army. The Palestinians have gone onto Israel blowing themselves up to cause civilian deaths, that is not basic warfare.

 

Sounds ironic if you leave we won't fight you, if you don't we will fight you, If you leave we can't fight you because you aren't there to fight.

 

Two posts asking for someone to explain what you were saying (due to horrible grammar and punctuation) and one offering an opinion on someone else's link.

Real attacks on their "credibility", amirite guise

 

Yet again you only attack me instead of discussing the topic. Why don't you say something on the topic in which you chose instead attacking me. So as i said before Why can't you just stay on topic you have posted before in the topic but you have never said anything constructive.

[Nomrombom]

Yet again you only attack me instead of discussing the topic. Why don't you say something on the topic in which you chose instead attacking me. So as i said before Why can't you just stay on topic you have posted before in the topic but you have never said anything constructive.

 

 

What the [bleep]? I created this topic because we're studying it in school and I wanted other views. Point one = utterly false.

 

Second, I was simply offering my view on the link. I'm attempting to stay out of this discussion until I know more about it. Would you rather I made stupid posts based on incomplete information? No? Then shut up.

[The_Gabe]

terrorism is a loosely defined word.

 

The Americans terrorized the British empire.

 

The Americans defended themselves from the tyranny of the British.

 

 

Palestinians are defending themselves from the tyranny of Jewish occupation [see what I did there?]

 

Well done. =D>

 

tyr·an·ny/ˈtirənē/Noun

1. Cruel and oppressive government or rule.

2. A nation under such cruel and oppressive government

 

 

Yeah.. No. Palestinian leaders=/=Israeli government.

[Ginger_Warrior]

Why are you saying 'Jews' instead of 'Israelis'?

[Nifflin]

The Zionists used terror tactics in order to force the British to give up Palestine to them. My point is the 'terrorism' is a very loose conflict. Currently it seems that it is what superpowers label any aggression towards them. But lets face it, the Americans uses terror tactics to gain independence, the Zionists used them to form their states, and the Palestinians use them to defend their homes. Being a terrorist isn't inherently bad.

 

The Palestinians have made it pretty clear that if the Zionists left Palestine they would cease their aggression. The Zionists don't so they are justified in their aggression. Isn't that the same thing?

 

The deference between the Jews and the Palestinians is, the Jews they went after British soldiers which is basic war fare take down the enemy's army. The Palestinians have gone onto Israel blowing themselves up to cause civilian deaths, that is not basic warfare.

 

Sounds ironic if you leave we won't fight you, if you don't we will fight you, If you leave we can't fight you because you aren't there to fight.

 

Okay, stop referring to the Zionists as the Jews. Not all Jews support the state of Israel so it is very incorrect to refer to the Zionists as "the Jews."

 

The Zionists did not only kill British and did not only kill Soliders.

 

I refer again to the blowing up of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem. Ninety-two persons lost their lives in the stealthy attack, 45 were injured, among whom there were many high officials, junior officers and office personnel, both men and women. The King David Hotel was used as an office housing the Secretariat of the Palestine Government and British Army Headquarters. The attack was made on 22 July at about 12 o’clock noon when offices are usually in full swing. The attackers, disguised as milkmen, carried the explosives in milk containers, placed them in the basement of the Hotel and ran away.

 

British, Arabs, Jews, Greeks, Armenians; senior officers, police, my orderly, my chauffeur, messengers, guards, men and women-- young and old-- were killed when the hotel was bombed. They were not only British soldiers. It remains the single deadliest bombing made by any party within the area of occupied Palestine. Ironic that the Zionists are responsible for the deadliest attack when they condemn the Palestinians so much.

 

@ The_Gabe, I'm sure the Palestinians in camps behind barbed wire find the Israeli government to be cruel and oppressive. So would those behind the infamous Israeli wall. Thus that would qualify the Israelis as being tyrannical to towards the Palestinians.

[Napalm]

terrorism is a loosely defined word.

 

The Americans terrorized the British empire.

 

The Americans defended themselves from the tyranny of the British.

 

 

Palestinians are defending themselves from the tyranny of Jewish occupation [see what I did there?]

 

Well done. =D>

 

tyr·an·ny/ˈtirənē/Noun

1. Cruel and oppressive government or rule.

2. A nation under such cruel and oppressive government

 

 

Yeah.. No. Palestinian leaders=/=Israeli government.

 

Oh right, it's totally not cruel and oppressive to take someone else's lands and then brand them as terrorists.

[ISREAL63]

Okay, stop referring to the Zionists as the Jews. Not all Jews support the state of Israel so it is very incorrect to refer to the Zionists as "the Jews."

The Zionists did not only kill British and did not only kill Soliders

 

Israel is a Jewish country pretty simple i will not call them Zionist because you use the word as a insult.

 

The Jews were at war with the British i will quote what Das said before

According to a 2001 study by the International Committee of the Red Cross, the civilian to soldier death ratio in wars fought since the mid-20th century has been 10:1, meaning ten civilian deaths for every soldier death.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/23/world/middleeast/23casualties.html?_r=2

 

Meaning that there will always be civilians death but they hit their target and they hit it hard it was in response Operation Agatha, it was a war.

suicide bombing at Park Hotel in Netanya - 27-Mar-2002

Thirty people were killed and 140 injured - 20 seriously - in a suicide bombing in the Park Hotel in the coastal city of Netanya, in the midst of the Passover holiday seder with 250 guests. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

 

The terrorist walked into the dining room of the hotel, in the center of the city, and detonated an explosive device. The terrorist was identified as Abdel-Basset Odeh, a member of the Hamas Iz a Din al-Kassam Brigades, from the West Bank city of Tulkarem, which is just 10 kilometers (six miles) east of Netanya. He was on the list of wanted terrorists Israel had requested be arrested.

 

A year later, on April 14, the four Palestinian Hamas terrorists who planned the Park Hotel Passover massacre in Netanya were sentenced to 29 life terms and another 20 years in prison.

 

This is how they fight no military base or soldiers there, Just the murder of innocent people on vacation. This is the deference

 

Oh right, it's totally not cruel and oppressive to take someone else's lands and then brand them as terrorists.

 

It isn't only Israel, Its also The USA, Also in the Canadian terrorist list and The EU has Hamas and a few other terrorist groups to. So its not only Israel i think they really are a terrorist organization

[Nifflin]

10% of the people in the King David hotel were military, it was also full of innocents. The Zionists used the same tactics as the Palestinians currently use. Stop denying it, it's a fact.

 

I don't use the term Zionist as an insult, like I said earlier, I support a Jewish state, just not in an area where it displaces millions of innocents. I use the term Zionist because it accurately describes what the invaders are.

 

A bunch of people have posted music videos in this tread, this is a beautiful song about the Palestinian people striving for freedom in Gaza. Enjoy.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFqSJ-M4qds

[The_Gabe]

Since everyone seems to be posting videos now, I'll post a video about an event in the past in which Israel was unfairly blamed.

 

 

Lovely song, really.

[Nomrombom]

On that note

[Nifflin]

Ohhhhh that flotilla of aid to Gaza that Israeli special forces shot up. Cool. Thanks for making the show possible. :thumbup:

[The_Gabe]

Ohhhhh that flotilla of aid to Gaza that Israeli special forces shot up. Cool. Thanks for making the show possible. :thumbup:

 

Yep. The flotilla in which Israeli soldiers were attacked on for no reason. You just showed me how one sided you are just from that 1 sentence. Well done.

[Napalm]

Oh right, it's totally not cruel and oppressive to take someone else's lands and then brand them as terrorists.

 

It isn't only Israel, Its also The USA, Also in the Canadian terrorist list and The EU has Hamas and a few other terrorist groups to. So its not only Israel i think they really are a terrorist organization

 

Doesn't make it any less opressive.

[michel555555]

Since everyone seems to be posting videos now, I'll post a video about an event in the past in which Israel was unfairly blamed.

 

 

Lovely song, really.

 

 

I promised myself I wasn't going to post here. Then I saw the first minute of that video.

 

Do I need to go back and bump the mavi mamara thread where it explained about all the things that israel doesn't let into gaza, which is why that convoy left in the first place?

 

And that no matter how you put it since the convoy was in international waters that attack was an act of piracy, at the very least, and the crew aboard that ship had every right to defend themselves.

[Nifflin]

Ohhhhh that flotilla of aid to Gaza that Israeli special forces shot up. Cool. Thanks for making the show possible. :thumbup:

 

Yep. The flotilla in which Israeli soldiers were attacked on for no reason. You just showed me how one sided you are just from that 1 sentence. Well done.

 

It was in international waters. Israelis boarded and killed 9 activists including one American. Whatever, UNHCR and other international organizations found after investigating the incident that it violated international law. Not that international law ever mattered to the Israelis. In fact according to maritime law the blockade on Gaza is illegal but that's a whole different story and not one I think you want to bring up.

 

Edit: Ninja'd. And thanks for posting Michel, nice to hear one more voice of reason on this thread.

[Nomrombom]

Thread needs moar cheer and hope tbh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gcu4M4xF6k

[The_Gabe]

Since everyone seems to be posting videos now, I'll post a video about an event in the past in which Israel was unfairly blamed.

 

 

Lovely song, really.

 

 

I promised myself I wasn't going to post here. Then I saw the first minute of that video.

 

Do I need to go back and bump the mavi mamara thread where it explained about all the things that israel doesn't let into gaza, which is why that convoy left in the first place?

 

And that no matter how you put it since the convoy was in international waters that attack was an act of piracy, at the very least, and the crew aboard that ship had every right to defend themselves.

 

So when someone doesn't threaten you, you have a right to combat them? Anyways, this is getting off topic so drop that subject. There was already a thread for that as you stated.

 

Oh right, it's totally not cruel and oppressive to take someone else's lands and then brand them as terrorists.

 

It isn't only Israel, Its also The USA, Also in the Canadian terrorist list and The EU has Hamas and a few other terrorist groups to. So its not only Israel i think they really are a terrorist organization

 

Doesn't make it any less opressive.

 

Explain.