Israel vs Palestine

[Nomrombom]

It would not be far fetched to imply (as I have been, but apparently you can't read) that, given the severing of ties between the US and Israel, Turkey could potentially go to war with Israel.

 

Why don't you get back on topic instead of talking about something irrelevant and will never happen if you want create a topic call turkey otherwise get back on subject

 

........................He just explained why it IS relevant. And how can you even begin to talk about biased? You have Israel in all caps (and misspelled) in your name. If that's not biased, gravity doesn't exist.

[ISREAL63]

........................He just explained why it IS relevant. And how can you even begin to talk about biased? You have Israel in all caps (and misspelled) in your name. If that's not biased, gravity doesn't exist.

In stead of just posting read the whole topic i explained that my name isn't Israel its Is Real. So once again why don't you post something related to to topic instead of going at me.

[Nomrombom]

First person I've met who wants uneducated posts. Interesting.

[Nifflin]

Nifllin,

 

Egypt started the six day war in which israel won. Conquered the West bank. It is normal to keep some land that you won in war, the USA did it in Puerto Rico. SO the i don't see the problem with Israel building homes on its own Land.

 

UN human rights chief urges Hamas to halt executions

List of Palestinian Terrorist Groups

Major Terrorist Attacks in Israel

 

In 1948 Egypt expelled 75,000 Jews from there home, 37,395 Jews of them went to Israel. Vise versa 7,000 Arabs went to Egypt. In Lebanon 6,000 Jews were kicked at of their homes of which 4,032 Jews went to Israel. 100,000 Arabs went to Lebanon. In Syria 30,000 Jews were forced to flee with clothes on their backs of which 8,523 reached Israel. 50,000 Arabs fled to Syria. In Iraq 150,000 Jews were forced to leave, 129,539 Jews went to Israel. 4,000 Arabs went to Iraq. Morocco 265,000 Jews were expelled; Algeria 140,000 Jews expelled, Tunisia 105,000 Jews Expelled, Libya 38,000 Expelled, Iran 100,000 Jews fled, Afghanistan 5,000 Jews, Pakistan 2,000 Jews, Yemen 63,000 Jews Expelled and from Ethiopia 23,270 Jews. In total 826,000 Palestinian Refugees and 1,002,270 Jewish Refugees.

Most Jewish Refugees in the Arab World went to Israel after having their money and property confiscated. They were absorbed into the society and became full Israeli citizens and an integral part of the state. This is in contrast to the Palestinians refugees who never received citizenship or rights from the above Arab States. Except from Jordan which offered its Palestinians citizenship in which they didn’t want it. The other places where they went to, are places that expelled its Jewish inhabitants, in which Israel gave them citizenship. So why can’t they do the same, they kicked out Jews and they can’t take in Refugee? This sounds fair.

 

 

 

First, if Egypt started the Six Day War then why would Israel keep Palestine. Makes no sense, Palestine isn't part of Egypt. Anyways, my links were about settlement demolishing which you said was only used against terrorists. Those links I posted show it is used against civilians long after the war.

 

Now you argue that it's actually okay to use against civilians, but for another reason. Get your case straight.

 

Then you give me some irrelevant links, nothing to do with house destruction. Two of them I would like to point out are from Jewish/Israeli organizations (biased to the discussion we are having) and the UN one was from the HRC who I cited multiple times. The funny thing is the UN one isn't even about Israel and Palestine but about the use of the death sentence in Palestinian internal affairs. Not really relevant to the discussion.

 

Then you give me some statistics. Again, how is this relevant? It doesn't dispute the fact that Israeli settlements break international law. You're arguing that because Israelis were abused (conceding this for the point of debate, though it could be argued against) in other parts of the Middle East then they have the right to abuse the Palestinians? Doesn't that just perpetuate the cycle of violence? Is that the Israeli way? They got abused so they have the right to abuse random people?

 

Like that's the equivalent of saying that since a robber stole my TV then I'm allowed to take any TV in the neighborhood and that's okay. If the owner resists I can shoot them too.

 

What i said was that Israel won a war its enemy's started it won it and got the spoils of war the The Gaza Strip from Egypt. and the West bank from Jordan.

 

All your links are from Palestinian biased to the discussion we are having so it only fair i do the same.

 

The Statics are relevant to the refugee problem which you brought up again.

 

Again, how does winning the Six Day War give Israel the right to violate the human rights of the Palestinians? Surely you wouldn't be arguing that in winning Poland Nazi Germany had the right to do what they wanted with the Jews there. It's the same principle. If Israel has the right to abuse Palestinians then Germany had the right to abuse the Jews.

 

Of those links I posted most were from the UN, Amnesty International and The Human Rights Watch. All of those are reputable international organizations. There is no bias, only fact in those reports and resolutions. I mean how can you say a UN resolution has a Palestinian bias, they don't even have voting power in the UN.

 

Quote me where I brought up the "refugee problem" in reference to Jewish refugees?

 

Also, let's not forget that Israel also recently committed an act of war against Turkey. Boarding a Turkish ship in international waters and killing 8 Turks. Turkish public opinion is very much against Israel. But you're right, it's off-topic.

[The_Gabe]

Nifllin,

 

Egypt started the six day war in which israel won. Conquered the West bank. It is normal to keep some land that you won in war, the USA did it in Puerto Rico. SO the i don't see the problem with Israel building homes on its own Land.

 

UN human rights chief urges Hamas to halt executions

List of Palestinian Terrorist Groups

Major Terrorist Attacks in Israel

 

In 1948 Egypt expelled 75,000 Jews from there home, 37,395 Jews of them went to Israel. Vise versa 7,000 Arabs went to Egypt. In Lebanon 6,000 Jews were kicked at of their homes of which 4,032 Jews went to Israel. 100,000 Arabs went to Lebanon. In Syria 30,000 Jews were forced to flee with clothes on their backs of which 8,523 reached Israel. 50,000 Arabs fled to Syria. In Iraq 150,000 Jews were forced to leave, 129,539 Jews went to Israel. 4,000 Arabs went to Iraq. Morocco 265,000 Jews were expelled; Algeria 140,000 Jews expelled, Tunisia 105,000 Jews Expelled, Libya 38,000 Expelled, Iran 100,000 Jews fled, Afghanistan 5,000 Jews, Pakistan 2,000 Jews, Yemen 63,000 Jews Expelled and from Ethiopia 23,270 Jews. In total 826,000 Palestinian Refugees and 1,002,270 Jewish Refugees.

Most Jewish Refugees in the Arab World went to Israel after having their money and property confiscated. They were absorbed into the society and became full Israeli citizens and an integral part of the state. This is in contrast to the Palestinians refugees who never received citizenship or rights from the above Arab States. Except from Jordan which offered its Palestinians citizenship in which they didnt want it. The other places where they went to, are places that expelled its Jewish inhabitants, in which Israel gave them citizenship. So why cant they do the same, they kicked out Jews and they cant take in Refugee? This sounds fair.

 

 

 

First, if Egypt started the Six Day War then why would Israel keep Palestine. Makes no sense, Palestine isn't part of Egypt. Anyways, my links were about settlement demolishing which you said was only used against terrorists. Those links I posted show it is used against civilians long after the war.

 

Now you argue that it's actually okay to use against civilians, but for another reason. Get your case straight.

 

Then you give me some irrelevant links, nothing to do with house destruction. Two of them I would like to point out are from Jewish/Israeli organizations (biased to the discussion we are having) and the UN one was from the HRC who I cited multiple times. The funny thing is the UN one isn't even about Israel and Palestine but about the use of the death sentence in Palestinian internal affairs. Not really relevant to the discussion.

 

Then you give me some statistics. Again, how is this relevant? It doesn't dispute the fact that Israeli settlements break international law. You're arguing that because Israelis were abused (conceding this for the point of debate, though it could be argued against) in other parts of the Middle East then they have the right to abuse the Palestinians? Doesn't that just perpetuate the cycle of violence? Is that the Israeli way? They got abused so they have the right to abuse random people?

 

Like that's the equivalent of saying that since a robber stole my TV then I'm allowed to take any TV in the neighborhood and that's okay. If the owner resists I can shoot them too.

 

What i said was that Israel won a war its enemy's started it won it and got the spoils of war the The Gaza Strip from Egypt. and the West bank from Jordan.

 

All your links are from Palestinian biased to the discussion we are having so it only fair i do the same.

 

The Statics are relevant to the refugee problem which you brought up again.

 

Again, how does winning the Six Day War give Israel the right to violate the human rights of the Palestinians? Surely you wouldn't be arguing that in winning Poland Nazi Germany had the right to do what they wanted with the Jews there. It's the same principle. If Israel has the right to abuse Palestinians then Germany had the right to abuse the Jews.

 

Of those links I posted most were from the UN, Amnesty International and The Human Rights Watch. All of those are reputable international organizations. There is no bias, only fact in those reports and resolutions. I mean how can you say a UN resolution has a Palestinian bias, they don't even have voting power in the UN.

 

Quote me where I brought up the "refugee problem" in reference to Jewish refugees?

 

Also, let's not forget that Israel also recently committed an act of war against Turkey. Boarding a Turkish ship in international waters and killing 8 Turks. Turkish public opinion is very much against Israel. But you're right, it's off-topic.

 

Seeing as the Flotilla issue is going offtopic, I'm going to simply quote something about it before we move on.

 

The international community should be denouncing Turkey, not Israel, for the loss of life on the so-called "Freedom Flotilla."

 

 

 

That's because Turkey, the flag state of the ship, had an obligation to ensure that the ships making up the flotilla adhered to international law.

 

 

 

It didn't.

 

 

 

Though neither Turkey nor Israel are parties to the Convention on the Law of the Sea, the treaty presumably spells out what the states ratifying the treaty believe to be acceptable rules of behavior. Many of those countries are now, rather hypocritically, denouncing Israel.

 

 

 

The Free Gaza Movement announced its intention to breach Israel's barricade of Gaza - requiring it to violate Israel's territorial waters.

 

 

 

Article 19 of the Law of the Sea Treaty specifies that "any act of propaganda aimed at affecting the defence or security of the coastal state" or "the loading or unloading of any commodity, currency or person contrary to the customs, fiscal, immigration or sanitary laws or regulations of the coastal state" are deemed "prejudicial to the peace, good order or security" of that state. This flotilla - as with ones before it - would have done both if allowed to proceed.

 

 

 

While Article 19 only gives the coastal state the authority to act within its territorial waters, the bloodshed may well have been greater had Israel waited until then. If reports are accurate that some activists carried arms, Israeli commandos would have lost the element of surprise.

 

 

 

It also appears that Israel may have been within international norms in boarding the ship as all states have an obligation under Articles 109 and 110 of the treaty to stop unauthorized broadcasts (those intended for the general public, but not distress calls), including in international waters. The so-called "Freedom Flotilla" was broadcasting its voyage live.

 

 

 

Blood is on Turkey's hands.

[ISREAL63]

In 1948 Egypt expelled 75,000 Jews from there home, 37,395 Jews of them went to Israel. Vise versa 7,000 Arabs went to Egypt. In Lebanon 6,000 Jews were kicked at of their homes of which 4,032 Jews went to Israel. 100,000 Arabs went to Lebanon. In Syria 30,000 Jews were forced to flee with clothes on their backs of which 8,523 reached Israel. 50,000 Arabs fled to Syria. In Iraq 150,000 Jews were forced to leave, 129,539 Jews went to Israel. 4,000 Arabs went to Iraq. Morocco 265,000 Jews were expelled; Algeria 140,000 Jews expelled, Tunisia 105,000 Jews Expelled, Libya 38,000 Expelled, Iran 100,000 Jews fled, Afghanistan 5,000 Jews, Pakistan 2,000 Jews, Yemen 63,000 Jews Expelled and from Ethiopia 23,270 Jews. In total 826,000 Palestinian Refugees and 1,002,270 Jewish Refugees.

Most Jewish Refugees in the Arab World went to Israel after having their money and property confiscated. They were absorbed into the society and became full Israeli citizens and an integral part of the state. This is in contrast to the Palestinians refugees who never received citizenship or rights from the above Arab States. Except from Jordan which offered its Palestinians citizenship in which they didnt want it. The other places where they went to, are places that expelled its Jewish inhabitants, in which Israel gave them citizenship. So why cant they do the same, they kicked out Jews and they cant take in Refugee? This sounds fair.

 

 

Again, how does winning the Six Day War give Israel the right to violate the human rights of the Palestinians? Surely you wouldn't be arguing that in winning Poland Nazi Germany had the right to do what they wanted with the Jews there. It's the same principle. If Israel has the right to abuse Palestinians then Germany had the right to abuse the Jews.

 

Of those links most were from the UN, Amnesty International and The Human Rights Watch. All of those are reputable international organizations.

 

Quote me where I brought up the "refugee problem" in reference to Jewish refugees?

 

Also, let's not forget that Israel also recently committed an act of war against Turkey. Boarding a Turkish ship in international waters and killing 8 Turks. Turkish public opinion is very much against Israel. But you're right, it's off-topic.

 

I am sorry when did i say winning the Six Day War give Israel the right to violate the human rights of the Palestinians? i said Israel has the legal right to also build there.

 

palestinemonitor and occupiedpalestine sand pretty bias to me.

 

Act of war on turkey? Maybe the opposite. The Turkish ship was trying to breach a Israeli blockade, Israel acted in self defense.

 

About the flotilla: The people on the boat had to know Israel wasn't going to let them just sail into Gaza, don't be naive. The UNHRC factfinding mission cited in one of the posts also reported the following:

The Mission notes a certain tension between the political objectives of the flotillaand its humanitarian objectives. This comes to light the moment that the Government ofIsrael made offers to allow the humanitarian aid to be delivered via Israeli ports but underthe supervision of a neutral organization. The Mission also notes that the Gaza Strip doesnot possess a deep sea port designed to receive the kind of cargo vessels included in the

flotilla, raising practical logistical questions about the plan to deliver large quantities of aidby the route chosen. Whilst the Mission is satisfied that the flotilla constituted a seriousattempt to bring essential humanitarian supplies into Gaza, it seems clear that the primaryobjective was political, as indeed demonstrated by the decision of those on board theRachel Corrie to reject a Government of Ireland-sponsored proposal that the cargo in that hip to be allowed through Ashdod intact.

Source (#80, page 19)

[The_Gabe]

It would not be far fetched to imply (as I have been, but apparently you can't read) that, given the severing of ties between the US and Israel, Turkey could potentially go to war with Israel.

 

Why don't you get back on topic instead of talking about something irrelevant and will never happen if you want create a topic call turkey otherwise get back on subject

Jesus, talking to you is like talking to a goddamn wall. I explained to you multiple times why it is relevant, and you were actively debating it with me until I proved to you that there are Arab countries with more powerful armies than Israel.

 

@ Gabe: Turkey's hypocrisy has nothing to do with this. I was discussing with Mr. Israel that the only reason Israel hasn't been reconquered is that it has ties to the US. I explained to him that there are armies capable of defeating Israel that also have reason to do so. He then stated that all Arab armies were weak, which lead to me comparing Turkey's and Israel's armies. Now, he says that this is unrelated, even though he was arguing with me about it.

 

Turkey will not go to war with Israel. Not only is the chance of success minimum, it will be condemned in international politics severing many ties (as you said before) with other countries. So this discussion is meaningless.

[Nifflin]

In 1948 Egypt expelled 75,000 Jews from there home, 37,395 Jews of them went to Israel. Vise versa 7,000 Arabs went to Egypt. In Lebanon 6,000 Jews were kicked at of their homes of which 4,032 Jews went to Israel. 100,000 Arabs went to Lebanon. In Syria 30,000 Jews were forced to flee with clothes on their backs of which 8,523 reached Israel. 50,000 Arabs fled to Syria. In Iraq 150,000 Jews were forced to leave, 129,539 Jews went to Israel. 4,000 Arabs went to Iraq. Morocco 265,000 Jews were expelled; Algeria 140,000 Jews expelled, Tunisia 105,000 Jews Expelled, Libya 38,000 Expelled, Iran 100,000 Jews fled, Afghanistan 5,000 Jews, Pakistan 2,000 Jews, Yemen 63,000 Jews Expelled and from Ethiopia 23,270 Jews. In total 826,000 Palestinian Refugees and 1,002,270 Jewish Refugees.

Most Jewish Refugees in the Arab World went to Israel after having their money and property confiscated. They were absorbed into the society and became full Israeli citizens and an integral part of the state. This is in contrast to the Palestinians refugees who never received citizenship or rights from the above Arab States. Except from Jordan which offered its Palestinians citizenship in which they didn’t want it. The other places where they went to, are places that expelled its Jewish inhabitants, in which Israel gave them citizenship. So why can’t they do the same, they kicked out Jews and they can’t take in Refugee? This sounds fair.

 

 

Again, how does winning the Six Day War give Israel the right to violate the human rights of the Palestinians? Surely you wouldn't be arguing that in winning Poland Nazi Germany had the right to do what they wanted with the Jews there. It's the same principle. If Israel has the right to abuse Palestinians then Germany had the right to abuse the Jews.

 

Of those links most were from the UN, Amnesty International and The Human Rights Watch. All of those are reputable international organizations.

 

Quote me where I brought up the "refugee problem" in reference to Jewish refugees?

 

Also, let's not forget that Israel also recently committed an act of war against Turkey. Boarding a Turkish ship in international waters and killing 8 Turks. Turkish public opinion is very much against Israel. But you're right, it's off-topic.

 

I am sorry when did i say winning the Six Day War give Israel the right to violate the human rights of the Palestinians? i said Israel has the legal right to also build there.

 

palestinemonitor and occupiedpalestine sand pretty bias to me.

 

Act of war on turkey? Maybe the opposite. The Turkish ship was trying to breach a Israeli blockade, Israel acted in self defense.

 

Not going to argue the flotilla stuff as I've countered what you and The Gabe posted pages ago and explained why at length, basing it all on maritime law.

 

Anyways, firstly I would like to point your your inability to quote me on the refugee stats. Proof that you put words in my mouth.

 

Secondly, I would like to point out that those were two of around ten links I posted illegal demolishing including UN resolution citations and other UN and international organizations. Sorry if you've never heard of Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, the General Assembly, The Human Rights Commiseration of the UN or even of the UN itself. I assure you though that they are credible international organizations.

 

Let me repost those specific links and citations;

 

Human Rights Watch (more on their website)

Link on Treatment of Palestinians as Second Class Citizens (Human Rights Watch)Houses and Property Destruction (Human Rights Watch)

Destruction of homes (Human Rights Watch)

Mass Illegal Demolitions in the Gaza Strip (Human Rights Watch)

 

Amnesty International (more on their website)

Army Destroys Homes

UN Report on Illegal Home Destruction (Submitted to the HRC)

llegal Settlements Threaten Human Rights

 

And some UN resolutions, can't find the links for all of it but this is a citation of various resolutions which proclaim the illegal demolition and subsequent settlements to violate the human rights of the Palestinians and be against international law.

 

UN General Assembly resolution 39/146, 14 December 1984; UN Security Council Resolution 446, 22 March 1979; and International Court of Justice Advisory Opinion, 9 July 2004, Legal Consequences of the Construction of a Wall in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, para 120

 

Explain how those organizations show a pro Palestinian bias or admit that you are wrong.

 

Thirdly, you argued that Israel has the right to demolish Palestinian homes because it won the Six Day War. Demolishing homes illegally is considered a human rights violation regardless as the UN has determined. Also, explain how it is okay for the Israelis to demolish Palestinian homes and relocate them but it is not okay for the Germans to demolish Jewish homes and relocate them.

[ISREAL63]

not going to argue the flotilla stuff as I've countered what you and The Gabe posted pages ago and explained why at length, basing it all on maritime law.

 

Anyways, firstly I would like to point your your inability to quote me on the refugee stats. Proof that you put words in my mouth.

 

I would like to point out that those were two of around ten links I posted illegal demolishing including UN resolution citations and other UN and international organizations. Sorry if you've never heard of Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, the General Assembly, The Human Rights Commiseration of the UN or even of the UN itself. I assure you though that they are credible international organizations.

 

And i answered you back but you didn't reply, i gave you the legal right and so did The Gabe.

 

Putting you words in your mouth how, I said that there are Jewish refugees to.

 

In 1948 Egypt expelled 75,000 Jews from there home, 37,395 Jews of them went to Israel. Vise versa 7,000 Arabs went to Egypt. In Lebanon 6,000 Jews were kicked at of their homes of which 4,032 Jews went to Israel. 100,000 Arabs went to Lebanon. In Syria 30,000 Jews were forced to flee with clothes on their backs of which 8,523 reached Israel. 50,000 Arabs fled to Syria. In Iraq 150,000 Jews were forced to leave, 129,539 Jews went to Israel. 4,000 Arabs went to Iraq. Morocco 265,000 Jews were expelled; Algeria 140,000 Jews expelled, Tunisia 105,000 Jews Expelled, Libya 38,000 Expelled, Iran 100,000 Jews fled, Afghanistan 5,000 Jews, Pakistan 2,000 Jews, Yemen 63,000 Jews Expelled and from Ethiopia 23,270 Jews. In total 826,000 Palestinian Refugees and 1,002,270 Jewish Refugees.

Most Jewish Refugees in the Arab World went to Israel after having their money and property confiscated. They were absorbed into the society and became full Israeli citizens and an integral part of the state. This is in contrast to the Palestinians refugees who never received citizenship or rights from the above Arab States. Except from Jordan which offered its Palestinians citizenship in which they didnt want it. The other places where they went to, are places that expelled its Jewish inhabitants, in which Israel gave them citizenship. So why cant they do the same, they kicked out Jews and they cant take in Refugee? This sounds fair.

 

How does this can't as putting words in your mouth?

 

I would like to point out 2/4 of your website of "Palestinians" in it making it sound bias.

[Nifflin]

I said your Jewish refugees weren't relevant. You said I asked you to give me stats on them. I asked you to quote where. You failed to quote. Saying I asked you to give those stats puts words in my mouth because I didn't. They aren't relevant to the current discussion.

 

Those links I posted are to UN reports, end of story, generally accepted to be the least biased reports around. 2/4 did not use the term Palestinians in the url, that's just bad math. Thanks though, your inability to refute those sources leaves them standing.

 

Also, explain how it is okay for the Israelis to demolish Palestinian homes and relocate them but it is not okay for the Germans to demolish Jewish homes and relocate them. I ask because you say the relocation is alright given that Israel won the Six Day War. Germans won the war with Poland. Explain please.

[ISREAL63]

I said your Jewish refugees weren't relevant. You said I asked you to give me stats on them. I asked you to quote where. You failed to quote. Saying I asked you to give those stats puts words in my mouth because I didn't. They aren't relevant to the current discussion.

 

I did not say you asked the stats but you brought up the Palestinian refugees, i don't won't to be bias so i brought up the Jewish Refugees. so how did i put words in your mouth?

 

Those links I posted are to UN reports, end of story, generally accepted to be the least biased reports around. 2/4 did not use the term Palestinians in the url, that's just bad math. Thanks though, your inability to refute those sources leaves them standing.

 

your links are From: hrw, amnesty, palestinemonitor occupiedpalestine. so yes it is 2/4 that is good math :huh:

 

Also, explain how it is okay for the Israelis to demolish Palestinian homes and relocate them but it is not okay for the Germans to demolish Jewish homes and relocate them. I ask because you say the relocation is alright given that Israel won the Six Day War. Germans won the war with Poland. Explain please.

 

The Germans didn't relocate they Massacred 6 Million Innocent Jews and millions of others to. I explained before and you replied and i replied to you but you didn't respond. I didn't say because of the six day war it was OK i said Israel has a right also to build homes there, but thank you for putting words in my mouth.

[Nifflin]

I said your Jewish refugees weren't relevant. You said I asked you to give me stats on them. I asked you to quote where. You failed to quote. Saying I asked you to give those stats puts words in my mouth because I didn't. They aren't relevant to the current discussion.

 

I did not say you asked the stats but you brought up the Palestinian refugees, i don't won't to be bias so i brought up the Jewish Refugees. so how did i put words in your mouth?

 

Okay, either way it's irrelevant to the discussion unless you argue that how other Arabs mistreated Jews makes it okay for Israelis to mistreat Palestinians.

 

Those links I posted are to UN reports, end of story, generally accepted to be the least biased reports around. 2/4 did not use the term Palestinians in the url, that's just bad math. Thanks though, your inability to refute those sources leaves them standing.

 

your links are From: hrw, amnesty, palestinemonitor occupiedpalestine. so yes it is 2/4 that is good math :huh:

 

Eight links total. One from Palestinemonitor, one from occupiedpalestine, three from human rights watch, three from amnesty international. Two total from websites with "Palestine" in the name. Six from UN websites. Two out of eight. 2/8.

 

Also, explain how it is okay for the Israelis to demolish Palestinian homes and relocate them but it is not okay for the Germans to demolish Jewish homes and relocate them. I ask because you say the relocation is alright given that Israel won the Six Day War. Germans won the war with Poland. Explain please.

 

The Germans didn't relocate they Massacred 6 Million Innocent Jews and millions of others to. I explained before and you replied and i replied to you but you didn't respond. I didn't say because of the six day war it was OK i said Israel has a right also to build homes there, but thank you for putting words in my mouth.

 

Oh so it's a numbers game, it's okay to displace a few million Palestinians but not 6 million Jews? Mother[bleep]ing ethics, how do they work? Really, in principle both acts violate human rights. Either both are acceptable, or both are revolting. I choose to think that both are revolting. It sounds like you find them both acceptable. The irony is delicious.

[ISREAL63]

Okay, either way it's irrelevant to the discussion unless you argue that how other Arabs mistreated Jews makes it okay for Israelis to mistreat Palestinians.

 

It is relevant. You can say it irrelevant all you want but you brought up a topic and i responded.

 

 

your links are From: hrw, amnesty, palestinemonitor occupiedpalestine. so yes it is 2/4 that is good math :huh:

 

Eight links total. One from Palestinemonitor, one from occupiedpalestine, three from human rights watch, three from amnesty international. Two total from websites with "Palestine" in the name. Six from UN websites. Two out of eight. 2/8

 

The links are from 4 site so as i said 2/4 with "Palestine" in the name.

 

Oh so it's a numbers game, it's okay to displace a few million Palestinians but not 6 million Jews? Mother[bleep]ing ethics, how do they work? Really, in

 

First of all 826,000 not millions so since you have problem with the numbers, i will repost the statics again these are the refugees of the Israeli Independence war. .If you want to start a topic on the holocaust go ahead but that is not the argument here.

 

In 1948 Egypt expelled 75,000 Jews from there home, 37,395 Jews of them went to Israel. Vise versa 7,000 Arabs went to Egypt. In Lebanon 6,000 Jews were kicked at of their homes of which 4,032 Jews went to Israel. 100,000 Arabs went to Lebanon. In Syria 30,000 Jews were forced to flee with clothes on their backs of which 8,523 reached Israel. 50,000 Arabs fled to Syria. In Iraq 150,000 Jews were forced to leave, 129,539 Jews went to Israel. 4,000 Arabs went to Iraq. Morocco 265,000 Jews were expelled; Algeria 140,000 Jews expelled, Tunisia 105,000 Jews Expelled, Libya 38,000 Expelled, Iran 100,000 Jews fled, Afghanistan 5,000 Jews, Pakistan 2,000 Jews, Yemen 63,000 Jews Expelled and from Ethiopia 23,270 Jews. In total 826,000 Palestinian Refugees and 1,002,270 Jewish Refugees.

Most Jewish Refugees in the Arab World went to Israel after having their money and property confiscated. They were absorbed into the society and became full Israeli citizens and an integral part of the state. This is in contrast to the Palestinians refugees who never received citizenship or rights from the above Arab States. Except from Jordan which offered its Palestinians citizenship in which they didnt want it. The other places where they went to, are places that expelled its Jewish inhabitants, in which Israel gave them citizenship. So why cant they do the same, they kicked out Jews and they cant take in Refugee? This sounds fair.

[Nifflin]

MFW you have copypastad the same set of stats on displaced Jews three times even though it has nothing to do with PALESTINE. :wall:

MFW you selectively quote me. :wall:

MFW you keep bringing up random things to derail the debate when you can't disprove something (like those UN links accusing Israel of crimes against humanity) :wall:

MFW I remember that you are Israeli, likely indoctrinated with hate since birth <_<

[The_Gabe]

MFW you have copypastad the same set of stats on displaced Jews three times even though it has nothing to do with PALESTINE. :wall:

MFW you selectively quote me. :wall:

MFW you keep bringing up random things to derail the debate when you can't disprove something (like those UN links accusing Israel of crimes against humanity) :wall:

MFW I remember that you are Israeli, likely indoctrinated with hate since birth <_<

 

MFW when the stats of misplaced Jews have everything to do with the discussion, seeing as that is how the Israel was born and why the people moved there :wall:

MFW when you all you say is the most biased and one sided arguments i have ever heard :wall:

MFW when you keep denying that those facts are irrelevant :wall:

MFW I remember that you think Israelis are death machines who all hate for no reason. :wall:

[ISREAL63]

MFW you have copypastad the same set of stats on displaced Jews three times even though it has nothing to do with PALESTINE.

MFW you selectively quote me.

MFW you keep bringing up random things to derail the debate when you can't disprove something (like those UN links accusing Israel of crimes against humanity)

MFW I remember that you are Israeli, likely indoctrinated with hate since birth

 

It has everything to do with the topic, it is part of the Refugee problem or do you have a problem with the Jewish refugees?. You selectively quote me. If you want to get back on topic please go back on topic you seem to be the one going off topic.

[Nifflin]

@ Gabe, I'm done with Isreal63 tonight, I can only decipher so many of his posts in one sitting

 

Actually, I mentioned it much earlier on the thread. I met one Israeli who I cared for very much. Her father was actually an ambassador to a European country. What made her and her family different was that they were Palestinian Jews who had roots in Israel since like the dawn of time. They didn't invade or displace anyone, in fact they really hated the expansionary policies of the government and were really offended by them. She would tell stories about how when her grandfather lived in Israel in like the 20's and 30's Muslims, Jews and Christians would all live at peace with each other and though her family was part of the minority religiously, they were never second class citizens.

 

I really respect the few people like that who are able to look past everything and see when something is wrong. Just a tidbit I thought some people here could learn from.

 

As for displaced Jews I need for you to give me an in depth explanation of how it is relevant. I would specifically like to know how it justifies crimes against the Palestinians. I do respect you Gabe, you are far more articulate then Isreal63. Maybe you can explain it to me. Please don't tell me that there are no crimes, I posted a bunch of UN resolution citations and links to UN organizations about the crimes. I'm more interested in the reasoning and justification.

[ISREAL63]

I love the way you like to attack me :rolleyes:

 

Any ways The Palestinian Refugee problem started with the independence war. What you are leaving out is that there are Jews who were far from the conflict yet they also became refugees. I am not sure how you can think of any reason that this is irrelevant to the subject. We are talking about the Refugee in 1947-1948. Unless you want to leave the Jews out of it. In which case you are being bias.

[Nifflin]

I love the way you like to attack me :rolleyes:

 

 

I'm not attacking, I understand that you're a non-native English speaker. I'm just tired and don't feel like putting the effort to understand you at the moment. No offense meant. I just want it to be clear. :P

[The_Gabe]

@ Gabe, I'm done with Isreal63 tonight, I can only decipher so many of his posts in one sitting

 

As for displaced Jews I need for you to give me an in depth explanation of how it is relevant. I would specifically like to know how it justifies crimes against the Palestinians. I do respect you Gabe, you are far more articulate then Isreal63. Maybe you can explain it to me. Please don't tell me that there are no crimes, I posted a bunch of UN resolution citations and links to UN organizations about the crimes. I'm more interested in the reasoning and justification.

 

I'm going to do that by giving you an example relating to this. Queen Elizabeth of England had compromised, during her reign, that the Protestants and Catholics could practice their religions in peace without persecution. However, there was Puritans who did not agree to this. They were expelled and sent to America, where they replaced the Natives living on the west coast, driving them inland.

 

It's the same story here. The Muslim countries were expelling Jews, so they all went to one place, and the people there chose to move more inland.

 

As for the crimes, I'm not going to deny them. Yes, there are crimes. All countries have crimes that they've done, but your clouding your judgment based on a few things one country did oppose to seeing it from both side's point of view.

[The_Gabe]

I love the way you like to attack me :rolleyes:

 

Any ways The Palestinian Refugee problem started with the independence war. What you are leaving out is that there are Jews who were far from the conflict yet they also became refugees. I am not sure how you can think of any reason that this is irrelevant to the subject.

 

>problem started with the independence war.

 

So you dont think they are justified in seeking independance from an oppressive Jewish state that sits atop their homes?

 

Seeing as they were offered solutions to the problems many times before, no.

[Nifflin]

Gabe, wouldn't it make sense to advocate ending the crimes rather then justifying them? I actually feel bad for the Indians, I feel like they were abused. I can't see how because other people have been wronged in history it makes it okay to continue that trend.

 

I understand the Israeli point of view to an extent. Following World War II there must have been a lot of hate, anger and fear. I understand their desire for a state and a homeland. I just don't understand why there needs to be victims.

[The_Gabe]

Gabe, wouldn't it make sense to advocate ending the crimes rather then justifying them? I actually feel bad for the Indians, I feel like they were abused. I can't see how because other people have been wronged in history it makes it okay to continue that trend.

 

I understand the Israeli point of view to an extent. Following World War II there must have been a lot of hate, anger and fear. I understand their desire for a state and a homeland. I just don't understand why there needs to be victims.

 

Crimes are never going to end. You know that as well as I. The world is too populated, and there's nothing you can really do too much about it. The strong survive and the weak disappears. You are going to quote me on the last part, but think about it before you do.

[ISREAL63]

So you dont think they are justified in seeking independance from an oppressive Jewish state that sits atop their homes?

 

Seeing as first they (the Palestinian) need to make peace, In which Israel tried by giving the Gaza strip. Yet the Gaza Strip is daily used to terrorize the Israeli citizens, threw Mortar and Rockets, That is just the daily incidents. So Israel is not going to give more land in till The Palestinian keep their end of the deal, It isn't a one way street.

[Nifflin]

Gabe, wouldn't it make sense to advocate ending the crimes rather then justifying them? I actually feel bad for the Indians, I feel like they were abused. I can't see how because other people have been wronged in history it makes it okay to continue that trend.

 

I understand the Israeli point of view to an extent. Following World War II there must have been a lot of hate, anger and fear. I understand their desire for a state and a homeland. I just don't understand why there needs to be victims.

 

Crimes are never going to end. You know that as well as I. The world is too populated, and there's nothing you can really do too much about it. The strong survive and the weak disappears. You are going to quote me on the last part, but think about it before you do.

 

Some people will be bad, some will be good. As long as free will exists so will crimes. Humans are not perfect.

 

I just think that a peaceful, fair resolution to the conflict would be a major step towards not the elimination of crime, but the proof that humans are not inherently selfish and savage. Crimes will go on, but it's the responsibility of nations and individuals to choose not to contribute to the cycle.

 

As for the strong and the weak, I think the current conflict is the result of two strong peoples clashing heads. Like it or not, the Palestinians are tough, the Israelis are tough too.

 

I guess this is just where the two of us diverge in thinking then. I doubt any amount of debate can change that.