Israel vs Palestine

[Dheginsea]

I can't look at your sources anymore Isreal63. Our last conflict over sources ended up with two pages of arguments in which you misdirected the argument horribly after I showed how yours were biased.

 

And i showed how bias yours were to.

 

Here we go again.... They were from the UN and other international organizations, at least for the most part. You can't get less biased then that.

 

 

Yes, but that doesn't mean it still isn't biased :P

 

Anyway I would like a two-state solution but I highly doubt that will ever happen, that or the UN (not a sole country) comes in and says "nobody gets it until you can all play nice in the sandbox". But if there has to be a winner i guess i would prefer Israel to win just because of all the persecution of the Jews.

[obfuscator]

Yeah, the only way I think there will be a peaceful solution is basically a decade + of demilitarization on both sides, with occupation by the UN or Nato or something.

[Nifflin]

Here we go again.... They were from the UN and other international organizations, at least for the most part. You can't get less biased then that.

 

 

Only half were, the other half were from palestinemonitor and occupiedpalestine sounds pretty bias to me.

2/8 links not counting the UN resolution I cited. Gtfo.

 

And I agree Y_Guy, but the Balkans have found peace and they had many ethnic tensions, I think it is possible here too. It just takes political will.

[Makaaveli]

Mhm.

 

I think, the country should just be equally divided for both Palastinians and Isreali's. Until that happens, there will never be peace.

[TrueBeaver]

Well, it could be argued that the country was split, Jordan (then 'Trans-Jordan') for Arab Palestinians and Israel (then 'Palestine') for Jewish Palestinians, in 1923.

 

I don't think anything but time (and perhaps not even that) can stop the violence.

[The_Gabe]

Here we go again.... They were from the UN and other international organizations, at least for the most part. You can't get less biased then that.

 

 

Only half were, the other half were from palestinemonitor and occupiedpalestine sounds pretty bias to me.

2/8 links not counting the UN resolution I cited. Gtfo.

 

And I agree Y_Guy, but the Balkans have found peace and they had many ethnic tensions, I think it is possible here too. It just takes political will.

 

No two conflicts can be solved the same way. That's just unreal ideology.

[Jaffy1]

...but the Balkans have found peace and they had many ethnic tensions, I think it is possible here too. It just takes political will.

 

Yes, they totally love each other now, and there is no tension at all. :rolleyes:

 

Anyhow, I agree with The_Gabe here. No conflict is identical, so it's unlikely the same solution will work.

[Millard]

Comparing it to the Balkans is a stretch, it's probably more akin to Ireland.

[ISREAL63]

Yes, they totally love each other now, and there is no tension at all. :rolleyes:

 

Anyhow, I agree with The_Gabe here. No conflict is identical, so it's unlikely the same solution will work.

 

I also agree with the Gabe. Also you can't really compare conflicts like this one.

[Nifflin]

Comparing it to the Balkans is a stretch, it's probably more akin to Ireland.

I don't know much about the Irish conflict but when I was wearing a Palestinian scarf in Europe last summer a lot of Irish stopped me and talked to me about it. Maybe you're right, I should probably read up on it.

 

The Balkans have numerous similarities and numerous differences. What is crucial is that the different ethnic groups are more or less at peace with each other and not slaughtering each other any more. This was accomplished by creating separate states for each religious group. For example Croatia is largely Roman Catholic, Serbia is Orthodox, and Bosnia is Muslim. Nobody won all of Yugoslavia but each group has a place they can call their home. So while there are still tensions there is peace. And that is what is most important.

 

Why can't both Palestinians and Israelis have a home in a similar multi-state solution?

[The_Gabe]

Comparing it to the Balkans is a stretch, it's probably more akin to Ireland.

I don't know much about the Irish conflict but when I was wearing a Palestinian scarf in Europe last summer a lot of Irish stopped me and talked to me about it. Maybe you're right, I should probably read up on it.

 

The Balkans have numerous similarities and numerous differences. What is crucial is that the different ethnic groups are more or less at peace with each other and not slaughtering each other any more. This was accomplished by creating separate states for each religious group. For example Croatia is largely Roman Catholic, Serbia is Orthodox, and Bosnia is Muslim. Nobody won all of Yugoslavia but each group has a place they can call their home. So while there are still tensions there is peace. And that is what is most important.

 

Why can't both Palestinians and Israelis have a home in a similar multi-state solution?

 

Because that'd mean that Palestinians would have to recognize a Jewish state along side it, and they're not willing to do that.

[The_Gabe]

Yes, the Palestinians are unwilling.

 

Only a fool would imply that both sides aren't truly open to a compromise here.

 

Give me recent (last 1 year or so) example of how both sides aren't open to compromise.

[michel555555]

Yes, the Palestinians are unwilling.

 

Only a fool would imply that both sides aren't truly open to a compromise here.

 

Give me recent (last 1 year or so) example of how both sides aren't open to compromise.

Do you really want us to?

 

Because I could start listing Israeli peace talks where they failed to halt the building of settlements on Palastinian land. Which negates any chance for a peaceful resolution because it's basically a slap in the face to Palastinians.

 

We want a peaceful resolution but while these talks are going on we are still going to be stealing your land. Ya that's a great stratagy for reaching a compromise.

[The_Gabe]

Yes, the Palestinians are unwilling.

 

Only a fool would imply that both sides aren't truly open to a compromise here.

 

Give me recent (last 1 year or so) example of how both sides aren't open to compromise.

Do you really want us to?

 

Because I could start listing Israeli peace talks where they failed to halt the building of settlements on Palastinian land. Which negates any chance for a peaceful resolution because it's basically a slap in the face to Palastinians.

 

We want a peaceful resolution but while these talks are going on we are still going to be stealing your land. Ya that's a great stratagy for reaching a compromise.

 

So, during the 9 month halt, until only month remaining, what exactly happened? Palestinians didn't want to negotiate till the last month and then left the negotiations because the 9 month halt was up.

[TrueBeaver]

Do you really want us to?

 

Because I could start listing Israeli peace talks where they failed to halt the building of settlements on Palastinian land. Which negates any chance for a peaceful resolution because it's basically a slap in the face to Palastinians.

 

We want a peaceful resolution but while these talks are going on we are still going to be stealing your land. Ya that's a great stratagy for reaching a compromise.

What makes it Palestinian land? Israel won it in an armed conflict and even gave back the vast majority of 'occupied' land in a peace treaty.

[ISREAL63]

Why can't both Palestinians and Israelis have a home in a similar multi-state solution?

 

I have a simple answer the Palestinians don't want peace. Why can't they make it in Gaza its their land now, they have the chose to make peace or to fire rockets at Israel.

 

What makes it Palestinian land? Israel won it in an armed conflict and even gave back the vast majority of 'occupied' land in a peace treaty.

 

You are so right :thumbsup:

[The_Gabe]

To anyone who hasn't seen this before, I'd really recommend watching this.

 

[Napalm]

Why can't both Palestinians and Israelis have a home in a similar multi-state solution?

 

I have a simple answer the Palestinians don't want peace. Why can't they make it in Gaza its their land now, they have the chose to make peace or to fire rockets at Israel.

 

Let me know if you see something wrong with this:

 

You walk into a stranger's home, they try to kick you out, you point a gun at them, and then proceed to beat them repeatedly. Then, you tell them "Jeez, OK! You can stay in the kitchen if you want", and wonder why they are mad even though you are generous enough to let them have the kitchen all for themselves. Of course, those [bleep]ing bastards only use the kitchen to take the knives from there and try to attack you. That's really rude of them, right?

 

That's pretty much what Israel did to Palestine, and why Palestine isn't going to settle down until they get all of their lands back.

 

But we already had this argument many times before and explained in a more serious manner, so I don't think you're gonna listen this time.

 

To "make peace" in Gaza means that Gaza is all they get. Because seriously, if they "make peace" then Israel isn't even gonna bother giving them more land.

[The_Gabe]

 

You walk into a stranger's home, they try to kick you out, you point a gun at them, and then proceed to beat them repeatedly. Then, you tell them "Jeez, OK! You can stay in the kitchen if you want", and wonder why they are mad even though you are generous enough to let them have the kitchen all for themselves. Of course, those [bleep]ing bastards only use the kitchen to take the knives from there and try to attack you. That's really rude of them, right?

 

That's pretty much what Israel did to Palestine, and why Palestine isn't going to settle down until they get all of their lands back.

NOBODY FORCED THEM OUT! What do you not understand?

 

 

 

But we already had this argument many times before and explained in a more serious manner, so I don't think you're gonna listen this time.

 

To "make peace" in Gaza means that Gaza is all they get. Because seriously, if they "make peace" then Israel isn't even gonna bother giving them more land.

 

First point: You seem to be the one not listening at all.

Second point: Watch the video above.

[ISREAL63]

Let me know if you see something wrong with this:

 

You walk into a stranger's home, they try to kick you out, you point a gun at them, and then proceed to beat them repeatedly. Then, you tell them "Jeez, OK! You can stay in the kitchen if you want", and wonder why they are mad even though you are generous enough to let them have the kitchen all for themselves. Of course, those [bleep]ing bastards only use the kitchen to take the knives from there and try to attack you. That's really rude of them, right?

 

We already went over this The Jews didn't force the Arabs out they left by the encouragement of their leaders. So making up a false story to prove your point is pointless. So please stay with the truth so we can have a normal debate based on facts not on your imagination.

 

That's pretty much what Israel did to Palestine, and why Palestine isn't going to settle down until they get all of their lands back.

 

That isn't at all what Israel did to the British mandate. The Arabs attacked the Jews and the Jews fought back and won.

 

But we already had this argument many times before and explained in a more serious manner, so I don't think you're gonna listen this time.

 

You are right we did and you seem to be saying the same thing instead of replying to our post you just repeat what what you said. So it isn't really a argument its more like you say something we respond and you say what you said again forgetting we ever replied.

 

To "make peace" in Gaza means that Gaza is all they get. Because seriously, if they "make peace" then Israel isn't even gonna bother giving them more land.

 

To make peace the Arabs first of to prove themselves that they want peace and stop firing rockets at Israel.

[Nifflin]

There is no peace in Gaza simply because Gaza isn't a free land. It's like saying the Jews in the Warsaw ghetto were free, then when they rose up against the Nazis they deserved what they got because they didn't want peace.

 

No, oppressed people have every right to fight for their humanity. Gaza is a horrible example given the massive humanitarian crisis going on in Gaza currently due to the Israeli blockade.

 

Also, I disproved Isreal63 on the Arab leaders getting the Palestinians to leave being a justification for settlements pages back. This was through my extensive citations of the right to return. He can't be reasoned with, I suggest people just ignore his myopic posts.

[ISREAL63]

There is no peace in Gaza simply because Gaza isn't a free land. It's like saying the Jews in the Warsaw ghetto were free, then when they rose up against the Nazis they deserved what they got because they didn't want peace.

 

You are right Gaza isn't a free land Hamas the Terrorist organization is holding it hostage. Hamas is sworn to the destruction of Israel. Meaning Israel has a right to Defend itself even if Hamas turns the Gaza Strip into the biggest Terrorist base in the World. In Warsaw the Nazi came to put the Jews in in trains designed for cattle to send them to the Gas chambers, when the Nazi camp in to the Ghetto the shot everyone the saw, Men, Woman and children. Israel doesn't go around shooting everyone they see. You can't compare the Nazis To the Jews. The Nazis were murders, Israel acts in self defence.

 

No, oppressed people have every right to fight for their humanity. Gaza is a horrible example given the massive humanitarian crisis going on in Gaza currently due to the Israeli blockade.

 

According to the deputy director of the Red Cross is Gaza, there is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza.

 

Also, I disproved Isreal63 on the Arab leaders getting the Palestinians to leave being a justification for settlements pages back. This was through my extensive citations of the right to return. He can't be reasoned with, I suggest people just ignore his myopic posts.

 

You can disapprove all you want you have a right to your opinion but you don't have the right to say i don't have a right to my opinion.

[michel555555]

Yes, the Palestinians are unwilling.

 

Only a fool would imply that both sides aren't truly open to a compromise here.

 

Give me recent (last 1 year or so) example of how both sides aren't open to compromise.

Do you really want us to?

 

Because I could start listing Israeli peace talks where they failed to halt the building of settlements on Palastinian land. Which negates any chance for a peaceful resolution because it's basically a slap in the face to Palastinians.

 

We want a peaceful resolution but while these talks are going on we are still going to be stealing your land. Ya that's a great stratagy for reaching a compromise.

 

So, during the 9 month halt, until only month remaining, what exactly happened? Palestinians didn't want to negotiate till the last month and then left the negotiations because the 9 month halt was up.

 

The reason why Palestinians didn't want to negotiate was because Israel put so many conditions on the peace talks that it wasn't really a talk, more of a list of demands. For starters they wouldn't even come to the negotiation unless Palestinians recognized Israel as a Jewish state. Palestinians don't want to do this because they fear that it means that once Israel recieves recognition as a Jewish state then they won't be able to return home since they are not Jewish.

 

You don't hold a peace talk by saying we want to talk about peace, but only if you do this, this and this. Because afterwords the talks could fail but the lesser party now is even worse off. Which would lower the chances of that talk ever happening.

[ISREAL63]

 

The reason why Palestinians didn't want to negotiate was because Israel put so many conditions on the peace talks that it wasn't really a talk, more of a list of demands. For starters they wouldn't even come to the negotiation unless Palestinians recognized Israel as a Jewish state. Palestinians don't want to do this because they fear that it means that once Israel recieves recognition as a Jewish state then they won't be able to return home since they are not Jewish.

 

You don't hold a peace talk by saying we want to talk about peace, but only if you do this, this and this. Because afterwords the talks could fail but the lesser party now is even worse off. Which would lower the chances of that talk ever happening.

 

Israel has only one main condition that Palestinians must recognized Israel as a Jewish state this is very fair seeing as Israel is a Jewish State. You seem to have left out the part where at the end of 10 month only on the 9th month of the freeze the Palestinians agree to talk only if Israel extend the freeze the Palestinians would think about talking. What happen the first 9 months? Why only at the End of the freeze they started thinking about alking

[michel555555]

 

The reason why Palestinians didn't want to negotiate was because Israel put so many conditions on the peace talks that it wasn't really a talk, more of a list of demands. For starters they wouldn't even come to the negotiation unless Palestinians recognized Israel as a Jewish state. Palestinians don't want to do this because they fear that it means that once Israel recieves recognition as a Jewish state then they won't be able to return home since they are not Jewish.

 

You don't hold a peace talk by saying we want to talk about peace, but only if you do this, this and this. Because afterwords the talks could fail but the lesser party now is even worse off. Which would lower the chances of that talk ever happening.

 

Israel has only one main condition that Palestinians must recognized Israel as a Jewish state this is very fair seeing as Israel is a Jewish State. You seem to have left out the part where at the end of 10 month only on the 9th month of the freeze the Palestinians agree to talk only if Israel extend the freeze the Palestinians would think about talking. What happen the first 9 months? Why only at the End of the freeze they started thinking about alking

It's not that hard to understand. Palestinians didn't attend the peace talks because Israel made it seem that even if the talks succeeded they wouldn't let the Palestinians return to their homes, which is one of the key items that Palestinians have for existing in peace.