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Let's just say your parents micromanaged your own life under an iron fist. What would your very own reactions be? How would you feel? Hate? Resentment? Rebellion? Perhaps even anguish?

 

Kids are as complex as you are - and they will develop into individuals too. To deliberately cause any of the above is neither desirable nor effective. People ought to realise the truth.

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Skeptic, situational punishments are the best way to do things: so maybe telling a child they can't go out if they're throwing stones at cars, or make them wash the bathroom if they were trashing it, and a slap across the hand if they're doing somethign wrong.

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If you play your cards right, you wouldn't have to hit your kids after the age of three.

 

My mother's threats were enough to make me stop, because I knew she would follow through. That's the key part here. If you always say what you're going to say, you will have the trust of your kid...which is good in itself, but it helps issue punishments and conduct good behavior.

"The cry of the poor is not always just, but if you never hear it you'll never know what justice is."

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Yeah, fear of the unknown is best. So for example if I woke my child up in the night and said: "I heard you've been behaving badly at school, I'm going to get you sometime" it will cause them panic and they will have to behave because they don't know when the punishment is coming.

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Yeah, fear of the unknown is best. So for example if I woke my child up in the night and said: "I heard you've been behaving badly at school, I'm going to get you sometime" it will cause them panic and they will have to behave because they don't know when the punishment is coming.

Why the [bleep] are you going to wake them up in the middle of the night? <_<

 

Those are not the threats I meant. What my mother would do is threat a specific punishment (no TV for a week, stay in your bedroom till dinner) if I didn't stop.

 

Also experience helps too. I've had my TV taken from me/I've been stuck in my room 'till dinner. I KNOW how bad it was and I don't want to repeat it. If you're not specific, they might just actually shrug it off.

 

So it's not fear of the unknown, it's fear of the bad times ahead.

"The cry of the poor is not always just, but if you never hear it you'll never know what justice is."

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But that's just it, maybe it shouldn't be because of fear that children do something - maybe there's a way in which they realise that a certain way is better than the other or a certain behaviour is better and they KNOW for themselves and understand why it is better. In the instance of learning, perhaps they could actually find joy in learning different subjects (gasp), so there would be no need for punishment Instead of making up punishments we should look to see WHY kids don't want to do something and find a way to improve it.

 

I think we rely too much on 'you're not supposed to like it, just suck it up - or else you're punished'. That just embeds a fear of the punishment rather than an understanding of why it's better to do that thing they tell you. Sure, as you grow older you might start to understand it, but i think you'll still be left with the feeling of 'i was forced to do that, hence i won't pursue that activity ever in my free time, i hate it'.

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But that's just it, maybe it shouldn't be because of fear that children do something - maybe there's a way in which they realise that a certain way is better than the other or a certain behaviour is better and they KNOW for themselves and understand why it is better. In the instance of learning, perhaps they could actually find joy in learning different subjects (gasp), so there would be no need for punishment Instead of making up punishments we should look to see WHY kids don't want to do something and find a way to improve it.

 

I think we rely too much on 'you're not supposed to like it, just suck it up - or else you're punished'. That just embeds a fear of the punishment rather than an understanding of why it's better to do that thing they tell you. Sure, as you grow older you might start to understand it, but i think you'll still be left with the feeling of 'i was forced to do that, hence i won't pursue that activity ever in my free time, i hate it'.

Wait, are you talking about stuff like washing dishes or playing piano? Because washing dishes isn't something to be enjoyed, but something that needs to be done, while playing piano should be done by people who actually want to play it. There's no reason for somebody to be punished for not wanting to play the piano.

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But that's just it, maybe it shouldn't be because of fear that children do something - maybe there's a way in which they realise that a certain way is better than the other or a certain behaviour is better and they KNOW for themselves and understand why it is better. In the instance of learning, perhaps they could actually find joy in learning different subjects (gasp), so there would be no need for punishment Instead of making up punishments we should look to see WHY kids don't want to do something and find a way to improve it.

 

I think we rely too much on 'you're not supposed to like it, just suck it up - or else you're punished'. That just embeds a fear of the punishment rather than an understanding of why it's better to do that thing they tell you. Sure, as you grow older you might start to understand it, but i think you'll still be left with the feeling of 'i was forced to do that, hence i won't pursue that activity ever in my free time, i hate it'.

You are not born with societal values/customs, so you just simply have to "learn it and suck it up". You cannot give kids to be reasonable/logical as you because they're just too young and would just not do it.

 

You HAVE to push kids to learn how our society works and they will not like it, but, it is life.

 

 

 

 

Oh yeah, adrenal isn't the epitome of seriousness. :razz:

"The cry of the poor is not always just, but if you never hear it you'll never know what justice is."

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Pretty much what Giordano said. If a "stern-talking-to" isn't enough to get your kids to stop messing with the neighbor's house, throwing things at people, or being an overall rude, disrespectful little brat, then what else are we supposed to do to teach them a lesson of reality?

 

Let's just say your parents micromanaged your own life under an iron fist. What would your very own reactions be? How would you feel? Hate? Resentment? Rebellion? Perhaps even anguish?

 

Yes, trying to micromanage anyone's life usually yields those precise sort of results. However, I believe it is the parent's duty to lead their children in the right direction, on the macroscopic level. By this I mean encouraging them to be productive and respectful members of society, but at the same time allowing them to go their own path and choose whatever music they want to listen to, whatever politics they want to support, whatever religion they are most comfortable with, and whatever career they want to pursue - even if you don't personally agree with it. That doesn't mean you can't challenge them by sharing your own values - you just need to accept that, ultimately, they are their own person with the freedom to exercise individuality, just like you.

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I'm pretty sure a 15+ year old would have sufficient capacity to understand moral qualms and why it's inappropriate to do the aforementioned given some relevant and sufficient reasoning. I don't think it's a fair assumption that children are essentially stupid until they reach the age of 18 or whatever other arbitrary figure attributed to the supposed 'age of reason'.

 

Or maybe I just have too high expectations for a child. Hmm.

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I was actually talking to a friend about this today...

 

If I were to ever have kids, I would want them to grow up to be completely independent. This doesn't mean I would neglect them, but I would definitely not 'baby' them. I would do my best to instill values at a young age, but at a certain point I would cut the leash and let them learn from their own mistakes. As an example, I would never give them a bedtime. Without being given strict times to sleep, they would decide for themselves, which gives them the opportunity to learn the simple lesson that 'if you don't sleep, you'll be tired as [bleep].' I would also ensure to educate them on things that can permanently damage their lives (breaking severe laws, addictions, whatever.)

 

Strict parenting more often than not leads to dependance and the inability to solve problems on their own. I would help out my children if they needed it of course, but I wouldn't sit around making sure everything's alright all the time, except at a very young age.

 

 

 

 

Also... if I ever have kids, it will be accidental. :mellow:

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Yeah, fear of the unknown is best. So for example if I woke my child up in the night and said: "I heard you've been behaving badly at school, I'm going to get you sometime" it will cause them panic and they will have to behave because they don't know when the punishment is coming.

Wait, what the actual [bleep]?

 

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Also... if I ever have kids, it will be accidental. :mellow:

 

That's not a good thing. Luckily, that attitude will probably change once you get married.

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Three months banishment to 9gag is something i would never wish upon anybody, not even my worst enemy.

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This makes me think back through my early years, and while some of the injustices you see as a child are actually perfectly reasonable and actually responsible behavior once your grown up, there are certain things I have seen/still see that hit me as wrong.

 

First, I agree that children should have some sort of activity beyond school and friends. Generally this is some kind of sport. But I think its important to at least try to find a sport the child is interested in, rather than arbitrarily forcing them into one. My parents only forced me into one activity, and that was swimming. They were always totally upfront that we had a choice in all sports, except swimming, and it was because we grew up on a lake, around a small fleet of boats, and my parents didn't want their children to drown. Oddly enough, both myself and my brother grew up to be life guards and swimming instructors, despite the fact that at least I used to be terrified of the water, and I hated every second of every swimming class I ever took (and honestly, teaching wasn't a lot more fun, but it got me some nice jobs).

 

My friends on the other hand couldn't swim worth a damn, to the point that most of them couldn't be near the lake we all lived on without their parents standing there (at their house. My parents knew we could swim and knew we weren't stupid enough to go in a boat without lifejackets). Eventually they got old enough and competent enough that they could go swimming with me at my house. My friends we're also all forced into piano lessons, they all sucked at it, and they all seemed to hate it. Eventually their parents gave up and stopped making them go.

 

 

The next one is gender discrimination, and it has two parts to it.

 

Part one is that my two best friends were male, and they both had younger sisters. I can remember many many instances where the older brothers were forced to go play outside when their younger sisters were not. This was pretty much a daily occurrence since the video games and computers were inside, and sometimes we wanted to use them (the younger sisters never did, that I know of). Yes, it was perfectly reasonable to make sure we played outside for a few hours before being allowed inside for a break. I have no issue with that. I do however still take issue that the girls were forced to play outside for maybe about 15% of the time the guys were. I figured out that wasn't fair when I was 4 years old, before I figured out it wasn't okay to invite myself over to my friends house uninvited because I wanted to play with them (I actually remember telling my parents I was going to go play at someones house, and my mother sitting me down and explaining that while I was allowed to invite other people over, it wasn't polite to show up at other peoples houses without an invitation).

 

The other case of gender discrimination was my female friend growing up, who for a number of years wasn't allowed to have any guys at her birthday party. This would have been in the 8-10 years old range I think.

 

 

On the whole, I had a lot more freedom than any of my friends. Both my parents have jobs, which led to my brother being allowed to come home alone by the time he was like 9 or 10. I would have started being the first one home when I was 8 or 9 I think. None of my friends were allowed to do that until they were 12 or 13 I think, and for the first couple years, they weren't allowed to come to my house on weekdays because my parent's weren't there. My brother also started cooking supper when he was 12 or 13, so that it would be ready by the time mom and dad got home (he enjoys it).

 

 

I expect that until my children are ready to choose for themselves, I will force them to go to church much as I was, and they will do it in good clothes. I think I'll even ask my parents how to do it since they managed to get me and my brother into good Sunday clothes with minimal protest (and no tantrums) going back as far as I remember. I think it was because they did it since before either of us could remember, so we took it for granted that you got dressed up for church. We never had reason to protest, because that was how the world worked.

 

 

Another one that I know was a particular issue between my parents, and the parents of my friends, was the age it was appropriate to start having a love interest. I know my parents were cool with it as young as 14 at least, though I think it was 13 (I know grade 9 for sure, but it might have been grade 8). I had my first crush, or whatever the childhood equivalent is in grade 4 (9 years old), and I saw my first bf/gf pair in grade 6. Everyone seemed to get over the idea of cooties sometime in grade 7, so grade 8 or seems about right for dating to me. Not like having sex or anything, but people that young can certainly have feelings for each other. To my view, if you discourage that, your just delaying their social skill development. The sooner they start the sooner they'll learn, and its probably not a bad idea to have a breakup when your really young when things aren't as serious as they are later on. For me, I met the first person I would date the summer before grade 9, and I started dating for real after grade 9 (my first date was the grade 9 prom, because why start off with something easy like a movie).

 

My friends on the other hand were pretty much forbade from kissing until who knows when, not that it really stopped them. I think my parents just realized it was going to happen, so they might as well get on board and exert some control over it, rather than forbid it outright and therefore not be able to have any say.

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That's not a good thing. Luckily, that attitude will probably change once you get married.

 

I've learned from a pregnancy scare (or two) to be careful, and I do trust myself so I'm not worried. Marriage is another thing that will never happen, no matter what girls I meet. ;) One of my priorities in life is not to be slowed down by anyone. You might say "Well you never know, things change", but even if I would meet my definition of a 'perfect woman' I honestly would never resort to marriage for any reason. To each his own. :shades:

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Or maybe I just have too high expectations for a child. Hmm.

 

It's a miscommunication, actually. I'm talking about children under the age of 10. I don't consider middle school/high school kids to be "children" to which must be raised/taught similar to an animal.

"The cry of the poor is not always just, but if you never hear it you'll never know what justice is."

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If you were religious -

'If' being the key word here. :razz:

 

I'll do the same as my parents: let me decide.

"The cry of the poor is not always just, but if you never hear it you'll never know what justice is."

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If you were religious - would you allow your child to choose his own belief, or would you force your child to follow your own religion?

You're an athiest. Do you plan on taking your children to church?

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"It's not a rest for me, it's a rest for the weights." - Dom Mazzetti

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I'm an atheist so it's not like I can really be mad at them if they suddenly decide that a religion makes perfect sense to them. Although I reserve the right to laugh in their face if they decide on Scientology.

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If you were religious - would you allow your child to choose his own belief, or would you force your child to follow your own religion?

You're an athiest. Do you plan on taking your children to church?

 

I wouldn't encourage them to go, but rather, to question the beliefs of the Christian doctrines.

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