Zombie Plans - Revised (Revised)

[The_Mather1]

Archi, as Ross would have said; welcome to BAIT.

 

Res, it is the bible of the Zombie Survival Thread.

[archimage_a]

Well...there are three definations I can think off:

1) (Internet)

Bait: to persecute or exasperate with unjust, malicious, or persistent attacks

 

So you are admitting to trolling, the lowest form of unintelligent debate.

 

Also degrades all of your arguments by proving that even when you have totally lost and your argument has died a horrible, horrible death...you carry on. Sheading what little...if any...respect people may have had for you as man capable of intellectual debate.

 

2) (Asking Ross)

That I have grabbed a sword and run off to fight Zombies...

Kind of flawed, given that is what you are suggesting...And I have made no suggestion(in recent posts) as to how I would personally deal with the Apocalypse, largely because there is no logical way for the Apocalypse to happen with the conditions put forth; Ergo there is no logical way to assess the merits of any action, other than by comparing them to your own opinions. Opinions which, by the fact that there is no logical way of assessing the merits of any action, are fundermentally flawed.

 

3) (Personal Opinion)

Finally... That, in my absolute analysis of the situation, I have missed the, quite obvious, fact that, in the ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE, reality itself with discharge zombies periodically to keep up the numbers.

Or zombies have the mystical ability to jump across time and space...but only horizontally, since vertically they are powerless...

Or zombies are capable of flight above 20 feet, but not below, unless touching the ground.

Or zombies, when no one is looking, travel at the speed of sound.

 

 

In any event:

 

As per normal your argument is rendered senseless and you are making no effort to explain how this supposed APOCALYPSE, perpetrated by a single mental and physical cripple, is supposed to function.

Against scores of criticism you say nothing, but cling to an object (in this case the Guide) as your salvation even though I have rolled it up and battered you about the head with it.

 

To cap it all off you offered no original thoughts...you merely copied directly out of the book, combined with your present life.

You might as well have suggested that to make a car, what you would do is buy a book on how to build a car and follow its directions to the letter. Great if you are trying to build a car as portrayed in the book, if you are building a car that isn't portrayed in the book then you have failed (you have also, quite magnificantly, if predictably, failed in building the car portrayed in the book as well...but that is neither here nor there)

[paul191600]

I, the independent adjudicator, declare that Mather has lost the argument.

[The_Mather1]

BAIT means only that while you are aware of the thread, your plan (or in this case lack thereof) will cause you to be ripe for the picking when the invasion occurs and will only serve to grant more time to those that have a proper plan.

 

As to your last comment, this is like buying a beach buggy manual and then using it to the letter to build a beach buggy for a beach buggy race whereas you continuously blabber on about what if there are sports cars present and that there's no way a WV Bug can survive riding dunes for too long.

[Resistance]

Its an absoloutely terrible guide which gives terrible advice that is likely to get you kiled. I only really remember an overall stupid method but as I go through the book I'll find some more evidence.

 

 

WEAPONS AND COMBAT TECHNIQUES

 

CLOSE COMBAT

1. A crowbar isn't the best weapon no matter how many times people on the internet spout it out (or have played half life). The problem with a crowbar to the head is that although it may kill a zombie on certain occasions it won't be 100% effective, its a fairly small blade and it might damage the brain but it won't fully destroy it or seperate it. Another problem that would occur is actually getting it out of the zombies head, the seconds which you would spend jerking the crowbar out would probably cost you your life.

A titanium crowbar is not a better choice, they're stupid prices.

 

2.

The sword is certainly not the ideal weapon when facing a zombie invasion, a large cutlass or broadsword maybe but they probably wouldn't have any bonus over some metal. Single-handed long swords wouldn't really be able to decapitate easily and will be an extra-burden instead of a decent sword.

The Japanese Katana certainly does not, because it does not rely on raw strength and instead on its sharpness it will need constant maintenance to keep it sharp, otherwise you will simply be hitting the zombie with a rather weak and thin bludgeon. As I have said earlier a broadsword, although heavier does not require as much maintenance and it has more strength behind it.

 

3.

The reason people used maces as opposed to hammers is because maces are flanged, they are built to do damage. A hammer is not built to do damage, it is built to push nails into wood. A mace, although a less precise tool would be a good choice and could probably open windows with ease.

Why on earth would you use a knife for zombie combat, there are far better weapons and it means that you now have a contaminated knife which can't cut meat and is unsafe to carry.

The trench spike is a stupid weapon, you won't be in small trenches when you're fighting zombies and at the very least a sane person wouldn't attempt to get so close to them. The brass knuckle is pretty much useless.

 

4.

 

 

SLINGS AND ARROWS

1.

 

2. A slingshot is an absoloutely amazing weapon, it has a much more powerful prokectile then a sling and have massive force. I don't have any idea why he's making out that they're weak. Slingshots can easily penetrate a skull and flesh, they're a better choice then a sword in some cases.

 

3. Curare probably would cause the muscles to freeze, either way its not worth discounting. Due to its size its worth taking and would definitely aid against hostile humans.

 

4. An expert couldn't bring down a zombie with ninja stars

 

6. It isn't a difficult feat, for anybody who does archery they will know that from about five-six metres there is an almost guarunteed shot of whatever you point at.

Why on earth woudl you want to set a zombie on fire? They wouldn't burn as quickly as he makes out from a long distance.

 

6. Silenced Firearms are actually rather loud.

 

8. Useless, couldn't kill a mouse. Only the £800 ones can do any damage against a zombie.

 

 

FIREARMS

1. The damage done by a rifle fired into a crowd is enough to sever spines, break legs and kill some zombies, its not worth discounting at all unless its in a fixed base. A 5-round burst is a gaurunteed kill whereas a one rifle shot may not kill the zombie at all.

4. There shouldn’t really be a situation when you’re picking off zombies from a distance, once you’ve secured a base I can understand but for its capabilitys they’re often too heavy, a pistol would probably be a better choice until a long term base is established simply for weight and ease resons.

7. Like all weapons it needs some basic training, people can make fairly accurate garunteed hits from about ten metres and I’m sure an amateur could pick it up very quickly. You don’t really want to be shooting from a distance, if you’re at a distance you’re safe. The only time I could even possibly comprehend shooting zombies is from about 5-20 metres which what a pistol is perfect for. Another good thing about most pistols is that you can simply buy a butt to convert it into a rifle.

 

 

EXPLOSIVES

‘Nothing works better then a jar of gunpowder’ apart from pretty much every other explosive in existence, a jar of gunpowder will be hard to light, be at the risk of simply combusting instead of exploding and will be much harder to obtain then a grenade in most cases.

If you throw a grenade at a group of zombies it will knock most of them over and damage most beyond repair. Although if we are willing to make handheld weapons then I’m sure that a fragementation grenade would be an easy modification to a normal grenade.

 

FIRE

Actually the fire on rotting corpses would probably do more damage but ignoring that fact it would severely show a human without pain down. You certainly cannot rely on a standard flame but a petrol filled trench or doused zombie will be an asset, if the zombie gets to close you always have your gun/bow/slingshot

 

OTHER WEAPONS

 

 

ARMOUR

 

 

[

==

 

TERRAIN TYPES

 

ALTERNATE MEANS OF TRANSPORTATION

Its an absoloutely terrible guide which gives terrible advice that is likely to get you kiled. I only really remember an overall stupid method but as I go through the book I'll find some more evidence.

 

 

WEAPONS AND COMBAT TECHNIQUES

 

CLOSE COMBAT

1. A crowbar isn't the best weapon no matter how many times people on the internet spout it out (or have played half life). The problem with a crowbar to the head is that although it may kill a zombie on certain occasions it won't be 100% effective, its a fairly small blade and it might damage the brain but it won't fully destroy it or seperate it. Another problem that would occur is actually getting it out of the zombies head, the seconds which you would spend jerking the crowbar out would probably cost you your life.

A titanium crowbar is not a better choice, they're stupid prices.

 

2.

The sword is certainly not the ideal weapon when facing a zombie invasion, a large cutlass or broadsword maybe but they probably wouldn't have any bonus over some metal. Single-handed long swords wouldn't really be able to decapitate easily and will be an extra-burden instead of a decent sword.

The Japanese Katana certainly does not, because it does not rely on raw strength and instead on its sharpness it will need constant maintenance to keep it sharp, otherwise you will simply be hitting the zombie with a rather weak and thin bludgeon. As I have said earlier a broadsword, although heavier does not require as much maintenance and it has more strength behind it.

 

3.

The reason people used maces as opposed to hammers is because maces are flanged, they are built to do damage. A hammer is not built to do damage, it is built to push nails into wood. A mace, although a less precise tool would be a good choice and could probably open windows with ease.

Why on earth would you use a knife for zombie combat, there are far better weapons and it means that you now have a contaminated knife which can't cut meat and is unsafe to carry.

The trench spike is a stupid weapon, you won't be in small trenches when you're fighting zombies and at the very least a sane person wouldn't attempt to get so close to them. The brass knuckle is pretty much useless.

 

4.

 

 

SLINGS AND ARROWS

1.

 

2. A slingshot is an absoloutely amazing weapon, it has a much more powerful prokectile then a sling and have massive force. I don't have any idea why he's making out that they're weak. Slingshots can easily penetrate a skull and flesh, they're a better choice then a sword in some cases.

 

3. Curare probably would

 

4. An expert couldn't bring down a zombie with ninja stars

 

6. It isn't a difficult feat, for anybody who does archery they will know that from about five-six metres there is an almost guarunteed shot of whatever you point at.

Why on earth woudl you want to set a zombie on fire? They wouldn't burn as quickly as he makes out from a long distance.

 

6. Silenced Firearms are actually rather loud.

 

8. Useless, couldn't kill a mouse. Only the £800 can do any damage.

 

 

(then I got bored)

[Retech]

Katana + Damascus Steel = Win?

[Resistance]

Katana + Damascus Steel = Win?

 

Yes.

 

But a heavier sword would do the job just as well.

[Retech]

Have you actually carried a heavy sword around or even tried to wield it? They're well...heavy!

[archimage_a]

As to your last comment, this is like buying a beach buggy manual and then using it to the letter to build a beach buggy for a beach buggy race whereas you continuously blabber on about what if there are sports cars present and that there's no way a WV Bug can survive riding dunes for too long.

Hehe, that made me laugh.

If you want to apply a set of totally arbitrary and contradictory rules, then yes....IF Zombies were capable of killing everyone, except you, then Zombies would be capable of killing everyone, except you...It doesn't require explaination, it is a self proving statement...its lazy, sloppy and unsatisfying to anyone who values their rational mind.

 

This argument has become one of Dogma verses Logic...

Dogma:

In 'the event' everyone who is not me will be turned into a Zombie.

Logic:

In 'the event as you describe' few people will be turned into a Zombie due to [explaination why the average person could avoid being turned into a Zombie without destroying their staircase].*

 

There can be no debate, no exchange of ideas...It is merely a case of who can quote Max Brooks most accurately...

 

*A view, incidently, supported by the 'Historical Analysis'...Suggesting that in thousands of years of Zombie Invasions there has never been a successful one, and never on a scale large enough to warrent a national, let alone international threat.

[Seraphi]

Mather, Why are you trying to bring me in on your side without any input on my end?

 

For the record, I am fairly convinced you would try to do all of that, be regarded as a threat, and be promptly shot by another group of survivors anyway. Except you wouldn't, because you'd beat them all with one hand tied behind your back, blindfolded, and walking on your knees, and using a plunger as a weapon. OR you would crush all of the zombies with your greatest weapon, the ego cannon.

 

PS. Retech, a crowbar works just as well and possesses more utility. I know which one I would use.

[The_Mather1]

"All of that" is me carrying out the modifications on my own house then stay inside, gaming to pass the time.

 

Archi, you forget one of the important facts of life, most people are idiots. The horde would be constantly growing due to "heroes" with chainsaws (or slingshots and maces ;) ) and narcissists who believe they will be the first ones to be immune to the virus. It doesn't help that the zombies are nearly braindead when people cower in groups or take on the role of vigilante. As the book says people are going to be flooding the hospitals... and then they find out the corpses weren't really dead. Or as will happen in America the churches will be filled and the prayers would be so thick in the air that an untrained ear could hear them from miles away.

[archimage_a]

Ok, we agree, most people are idiots :grin:.

 

The only thing I really want to do is understand how you go from 1 zombie to several thousand, spread across the globe, when all evidence points to them not doing that.

 

One Zombie could, with sufficently inept handling and a large amount of luck, become two or three hundred Zombies. I will wholeheartedly admit that.

I further admit with continual inept handling and even more luck, those two or three hundred Zombies could blossom into tens of thousands.

 

However, for those two or three hundred Zombies to be brought into existance two or three hundred Humans need to have died.

I am willing to say that 20-30 of them could have died in seclusion, with their deaths yielding no valuable information to Humanity, while increasing the Zombie Hoard's numbers.

But Zombie fights in streets would attract attention of people surrounding them, who would report that 'Chainsawing' them was useless, and yes, there may be people who stupidly believe they are immune...and others who believe that becoming a Zombie would be a good idea...But those numbers would be proportionally small, and would soon run dry.

 

Maces and other weapons, wielded by a person who knew that you had to smash their head apart, may become Zombies themselves...this is true. They would, however, hopefully, kill at least one Zombie in the process...and once people became aware that a Zombie's bite was 100% lethal, they would move onto longer reach weapons (Or guns).

 

People may swarm to hospitals...yes. (In my opinion people would only swarm to hospitals if TV, Radio and Telephone were down, given that Zombies were roaming the streets...) But Zombies can't open doors, and Hospitals (at least in this country) have enough lockable doors to confound a Zombie's progress for, at least, a few minutes (Likely longer given their inability to use tools, or attempt to kick doors down...they would just press up against it, which doors can easily withstand).

Security, obviously, could break down when people got bitten by Zombies, died and became Zombies...But the Zombies wouldn't open the doors, so dozens of Zombies would remain contained, not biting anyone.

However, surviours would learn from these mistakes. The dead would be discarded, or, at the very least, sealed away from others.

 

Ok, people would, in all likelihood, start killing each other 'Did you get bitten! OMG YOUR A ZOMBIE!!!!' and other ridiculousness.

Supposing that this did happen it is not the end of the world, the Virus has to be passed to them for them to become Zombies, so as long as the dead were not hurled onto the streets where Zombies could convert them at will, they would not pose a significant threat.

Obviously if there actually is a Future Zombie among the dead this posses a problem...But as mentioned before, a locked door would confound the Zombies progress, so sealing them behind such a door would be logical....Personally I would hurl the bodies into a room with a lockable door and a small reinforced 'porthole' window (Common in hospitals, at least in this country). Checking for Zombies before opening the door, and having someone onhand to beat them back(or shoot them in the head), I would then open, hurl the body (Probably not very far :smile: ) and close the door.

 

It would, however, I ultimately conceed, depend on people knowing the layout of the hospital...a bunch of people running about could quickly find themselves boxed in, leading, potentially, to several of their number becoming Zombies.

 

As to churches and Zombies hearing...It really wouldn't be a problem.

In the first place splitting people between churches, hospitals and police stations relieves the burden somewhat considerably.

In the second place, Churches are (dependant on the denomination) fairly defencible. Small, high windows, lockable doors, nominally thick walls, and large open areas within the Church itself...These are the ideal conditions for staving off the inital Zombie Invasion.

In the third place, if the Zombies did swarm on the Church it relieves pressure elsewhere...On condition that the Church was defencible, this would tie up a large number of Zombies who, devoid of victims, could not increase their numbers.

Undefencible churches would be abandoned after the inital attack (Or people decend into the Crypt(again depending on denomination) and end up dying down there, either not becoming Zombies(Starvation/ect), or with a locked door between them and everyone else, thus not a threat.) with some casualties.

 

 

 

There would be multiple ways it could play out...Humans win through intelligence and weaponary, a stalemate, or Zombie Victory.

 

So I do conceed that there is a POSSIBILITY that people would, through sheer misfortune and stupidity, swell the Zombie Numbers considerably.

At this point the Racoon solution would take place, and the city would be destroyed....Ok it wouldn't kill ALL of the Zombies, but it would kill the majority, and with the lessons learned from the city being destroyed, people would be more ready in the future.

Ok, people can deny it, in which case the wider population learn nothing from it, but slowly...if more cities fall...plans would be formulated and action taken.

 

 

 

As to simultanous attacks(I mean this in terms of Washington AND New York, not 4 villages near Washington, that is far more likely to occur)...Possible, yes, probable, no.

If they did happen then I would say the limit would be 3 simultanous attacks...More than that would be entering into the realms of many billions to one, since it would require Zombies to, through random chance, approach cities hundreds of miles apart at the same time. Two would be a coincidence, and three would be excessively unlikely, but four departs into the realms of fantasy.

 

(This is assuming there was not an intelligence behind it...if there was and it launched global attacks then ultimate fate relies on what their intentions are...If there plan is simply to kill everyone then only a bunker set dozens of meters underground, to avoid detection, would be safe, and even then you would be at their mercy should you ever surface.)

 

 

 

 

Ultimately put, I can't see any logical way from one Zombie to a hoard that threatens the world, any more than I can see a logical way for a prehistoric man to walk out of a cave, gather together serveral different rocks and build a functional nuclear generator.

 

So, in my opinion, preperation for the Zombie Invasion should rely on a short term solution, with long term options...Simply 'waiting it out' is an option, a sensible option, but one of many, with its own pros and cons, and there in lies the discussion.

[The_Mather1]

What you said about defensible churches and locking away corpses holds a problem though, a single zombie could flip a car, same as any human in an adrenaline rush, so you don't need many zombies trying to get through before that door is suddenly smashed far off its hinges.

 

And bombing the zombie horde is not an option that would be taken in time due to the threat it was posing compared to the threat the bombs posed to the civilians, and when suddenly the zombie threat was massive enough, you'd have to carpet bomb a whole state to have even a remote chance of successful extermination, although nukes would be tried first, and though the massively increased yield would be evident, in the outer ranges the nuke would not kill the zombies, merely irradiate them (and radioactive zombies are worse than regular ones) while it would still make short work of any humans.

[Seraphi]

You... You actually bought into the rumour that humans can flip a car with an adrenaline rush?

 

Wow.

 

BUT WAIT. I happen to remember you stating earlier, with 100% certainty (You always state things with 100% certainty no matter what they are though...) that zombies could not tear down your shed... And now you are saying that they can flip cars? You have crossed your streams of logic somewhere.

[The_Mather1]

Because they know that through that door there's some noisy food, while for my shed there was food on top of it for a few seconds. Though what they would do would be the same; push. My shed is supported by an internal structure of 2x4 wooden beams, while that door is supported by twisted strips of thin steel screwed onto a wooden frame or plastic fasteners inserted into holes in concrete/bricks.

[Seraphi]

Whelp, I am considering my place in this debate over. I can't really get over the fact that you believe that rumour.

 

You can imagine I said something along the lines of "I cannot deal with Mather's endless intellect and knowledge!" if it makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside.

 

But in reality I am quietly laughing to myself. Poor, poor Mather.

[The_Mather1]

I would get that you don't believe it, seeing as how you never work out because you "see no point in being fit". But the human body is actually strong enough to flip a normal car (not a SUV mind you), the only thing that stops us is our brain since that kind of exertion poses an extreme threat to our health as we may actually tear a tendon clean in half or break a bone.

[Icuownage]

That whole adrelanine rush thing turns you into a superhuman is still not proven or disproven, there has been cases where it has occured, but then you can ask why doesn't it occur every single time you are in danger. Then again I don't know enough about it to actually say more on it.

 

Anyway, from what I've read I think you're stating a zombie could do that? Now I'm not sure if you're talking about the type of zombie who rots slowly, but if you are it would be impossible for that type of zombie to do that, and if it did the zombie would not last too long afterwards and would just be a weakling.

 

That much force would rip the muscles, infact I believe every case so far every person has had damaged muscles afterwards (unless you can find a story that doesn't) and as a zombie does not actually repair any damage (Which is why we'd only have to last at best a year until they're all dead, assuming no one is bitten around a few months in).

 

So I'm saying, it depends on the zombie, but the fact remains after they do something like that, they'll probably collapse.

[The_Mather1]

Of course the zombie would be crippled in doing so, but if there was only one zombie behind the door then you could just open the door and put a shotgun shell in its head.

[Icuownage]

Why would you even waste a shotgun shell doing that? Ammo doesn't grow on trees!

[The_Mather1]

Nor does new doors.

[Icuownage]

....

 

I'm going to just say, doors are commonly made out of wood and so yes they do.

[The_Mather1]

I'd say it's be way easier to get more ammo than a door, since the ammo is supposed to be expendable, doors are not.

[Resistance]

 

 

That is a well-made slingshot firing ball bearings, he posted a video of it going through a skull but it got taken down for some reason. Although I know that I cannot make that (very quickly) I can certainly buy one for £60 of the same power.

 

The slingshot is silent, it fires ball bearings which in some cases can be washed and reused unlike bullets. It can destroy a brain and won't jam or lock. Its small, light and safe and its better then running at a zombie with a hammer. A slingshot can hit a zombie with ease from five metres and can use a variety of ammunition which can probably be manafactured with relative ease and enough time on your hands.

 

 

--

 

In response to the discussion, life doesn't grow on trees so you'd better use a shotgun if you have one as opposed to risking it in other ways. Better safe then sorry.

 

Mather, if your plan is to seriously close the door and play games on your computer then I seriously don't think you have a chance. You should barricade the door, no matter how strong you think it is.

 

Retech, I have held a battle-ready weapon. They are not too heavy, you may be thinking of a historical bastard sword which are extremely heavy.

[Seraphi]

>Using a shotgun in a romero zombie scenario

 

Ahahahahahaha

 

I didn't mean I was actually out of the thread but I am not going to do much other than post snarky comments now, since you have proven yourself waaaay beyond help.