Odd plothole...

[Ts_Stormrage]

This is a thread mainly about the history and backstory of some of the charachters ingame... It will contain spoilers of quests and such...

 

When talking to Ashuelot Reis, she tells you that she was approached by a person claiming to be a priest of Guthix, teaching her all the rites and such... We know this person was really the Zarosian Mahjarrat Sliske, that instead taught her a ritual that would re-awaken Nex from a curse or whatever that had put her under many years before...

 

So Sliske did not teach her the Guthixian ways and rites... How could he, for none of the Mahjarrat would've known about him (Zaros arrived after Guthix went into his first slumber)...

 

So how is it possible for Ashuelot Reis to have turned into a Nature Spirit using the teachings of Guthix?

 

 

Normally I wouldn't make a thread about this, but recently a Development Blog came out that would suggest that they wouldn't leave such a giant gaping plothole...

[Sy_Accursed]

A possible explaination:

Ashuelot Reis was a guthixian of some kind and knew many of the basic teachings and rituals etc. If she didn't how could she hope to perform the advanced stuff needed to awaken Nex?

The supposed priest aka Sliske taught her the rite to re-awaken Nex, a supposed servant of guthix, she went she did. She died, she realised her error and took the steps to become a nature spirit.

 

Plothole closed with nothing thats too far fetched or directly contradictory to things explicitly told to us.

 

More likely/obvious:

 

Absolutely zero grounding to Zarosians would not know Guthix. It is completely unclear when any of the gods arrived in relation to Guthix in the lore AND just because he was in slumber doesn't meant they wouldnt know about him. All the inhabitants certainly would and could of mentioned it and would of had temples etc.

Only god we have definite appearance of info is Zamorak.

 

Plus factor in all these mahjraat like Sliske have been in hiding since Zaros demise, which was pre-godwars, its perfectl feasible in all thoose thousands of years he could of learnt stuff. Same as Lucien learnt about the staff of armadyl and stone of jas.

[Ts_Stormrage]

My point is: she (Ash) would not have been taught Guthixian ways, because she was taught by Sliske, a Zarosian Mahjarrat...

 

Given what we know of Sliske (someone who you shouldn't make deals with, and has unusual power over shadow), there is no reason at all to asume that Sliske would've gone around teaching Guthixian ways to Saradomin priests...

 

A possible explaination:

Ashuelot Reis was a guthixian of some kind and knew many of the basic teachings and rituals etc. If she didn't how could she hope to perform the advanced stuff needed to awaken Nex?

The supposed priest aka Sliske taught her the rite to re-awaken Nex, a supposed servant of guthix, she went she did. She died, she realised her error and took the steps to become a nature spirit.

Wrong on several occasions:

Ashuelot Reis had up to the point that she met Sliske/Guthixian priest always been a priest of Saradomin. She was taught by Sliske a ritual that was (as Ash believed) to awaken Guthix, but little did she know and poof, Nex was awake (something that would be intended by Sliske)

 

More likely/obvious:

 

Absolutely zero grounding to Zarosians would not know Guthix. It is completely unclear when any of the gods arrived in relation to Guthix in the lore AND just because he was in slumber doesn't meant they wouldnt know about him. All the inhabitants certainly would and could of mentioned it and would of had temples etc.

Only god we have definite appearance of info is Zamorak.

 

Plus factor in all these mahjraat like Sliske have been in hiding since Zaros demise, which was pre-godwars, its perfectl feasible in all thoose thousands of years he could of learnt stuff. Same as Lucien learnt about the staff of armadyl and stone of jas.

I'll agree with you that the Gods and Mahjarrat may have known about one another, but your Chronology is wrong...

 

The Godwars started WHEN Zaros was defeated, and Zamorak took over...

 

I begin to wonder if you even know roughly when Nex was imprisoned the 2nd time... The first time was right around the time that Zaros was defeated, and Nex with an army and a couple of Mahjarrat (but not Azzanadra, as he was in Senntisten trying to contact Zaros again) was attempting to secure the Ritual Site in order to get the upper hand...

 

The 2nd time was years later. Armadyl, then on the verge of defeat, had in a hail mary pass forged the Godsword in an attempt to kill Zamorak and while transporting these through the mountains got ambushed by a bunch of demons...

They fled into the warded temple that Saradominists had built around the icy carvern that had locked Nex away... It was there that Sliske made his move...

[Sy_Accursed]

Sliske and all the mahjaratt do things in devious ways.

Why can't of he taught her the obvious guthixian stuff she'd of heard about to make it convincing?

 

And as I said before no solid evidence or reason why she couldn't of already known some stuff.

 

And both ways:

Without her knowing some basic ritual stuff how could she hope to do an advance one to awaken nex?

[Grimy_Bunyip]

what proof do we have that guthix was not worshipped in the third age?

IIRC the only proof we have of that, are the words of various mahjarrat from postbags from the hedge.

 

do you have access to the specific comments?

[Ts_Stormrage]

The lack of any charachters that lived back then mentioning Guthix is hardly evidence, I know...

 

Wouldn't it make sense for at least someone to have mentioned him? I mean even Saradomin, while encouraging you to drop the subject, still acknowldges Zaros...

[Alg]

what proof do we have that guthix was not worshipped in the third age?

IIRC the only proof we have of that, are the words of various mahjarrat from postbags from the hedge.

It's very possible that Guthix wasn't worshipped as widely as other gods, much like in the present. You have druidic robes from the third age, and the druids are typically Guthixian, and there might have been records from before he went to sleep.

 

Or it could be that they hadn't planned that far ahead with the God Letters and created a plothole because of how much the lore has changed in ~5 years :razz:

[Sly_Wizard]

Am I the only one who doesn't pay attention to RS lore.

[SixFootOne]

Am I the only one who doesn't pay attention to RS lore.

 

No you are not alone. I usually don't pay attention in game during quests or anything, i just read over rs lore threads that sum everything up lol.

[michel555555]

Before and durring the god wars silske traveled the world, including the eastern lands where he got the barrows armours. Since we have no knowledge, that i'm aware of, of saradomin or zaros/zamorak having any influence in the east its possible that they could have remained faithful to guthix when he went to sleep and that the east iis where silske learned of guthix.

 

edit: And silske could have taught her some of the more basic rituals of the druids in order to gain her trust and to convice her that he was a druid of guthix and that the ritual would awaken guthix.

[brando13a]

Well I have one hole in the op's argument: Who says you need Guthix druidic teachings to become a Nature Spirit at all?

 

In addition to that we have no confirmation that she didnt have prior knowledge of Guthix or rituals as others have said, so really I think this plothole is spawned from over-analyzing non-facts.

[Cheefoo]

I don't see how you think the Mahjarrat never knew about Guthix. Guthix was worshipped throughout the history of Gielinor, so I'm sure they've heard of him one way or another. Sliske is also a conniving magical bastard, we can't be sure what he's capable of. Who's to say Ashuelot Reis isn't truly a nature spirit, but instead has only been cursed by Sliske to become an undying ghost?

 

This doesn't seem like a "gaping plot hole" to me, just a bit of vague storytelling and a bit of inexplicable dark magic. It's magic. He's a wizard and he used magic. No further explanation is required.

[Sy_Accursed]

Well I have one hole in the op's argument: Who says you need Guthix druidic teachings to become a Nature Spirit at all?

 

Nature Spirit quest we get specifically told you become a nature spirit through the teachings of Guthix.

[Deathknell]

It is said Guthix knows nothing of Zaros, but nowhere does it say Zaros knew nothing of Zaros.

 

A few things:

 

1) Juna says Zaros coming back is good for Balance. Perhaps they have some similar beliefs/goals like Armadyl/Saradomin

 

2) Maybe the ritual to release Nex was a Guthixian one. I mean, if the other four combined to seal her down there, maybe they used a neutral ground type spell that didn't favor any particular of the four sides.

 

3) Maybe Sliske taught her actual Guthix teachings he knew to gain her trust, then used her as a pawn to release Nex. Upon dying, she used the correct teachings.

 

4) The content developers were drunks.

[Sy_Accursed]

Zaros coming back is good for balance as the gods are paired and the pairs are thrown off by zamorak.

 

Armadyl's law and order balances bandos bloodshed and war.

Saradomin's wisdom balances Zaros physical might.

 

Zamarok just throws everything out of whack because chaos is too akin to bloodshed and war and doesn't balance saradomin's wisdom; plus he is the only 100% definite evil god with no good intent.

Bandos may love war but then he is a god of naturally war-like races prone to in-fighting and bickering; sure he jumps into any war he can but he doesn't start them.

Zaros is the god of strength and might (not 100% definite but implied by the fact he was saradomins opposite number and various other hints etc.) but he also has no proof of being inherently evil; sure the mahjaratt are a bit evil but worth noting its pretty much all zamorakian mahjaratt who have done evil deeds, not zarosian ones: enkhara imprisoned Akthanakos, Bilrach has enslaved hundreds in search of a great power under daemonheim, Hazeel is a warlord who wnats to redominate ardougne, Khazard again a mean warlord dude, Lucien and Zemregoul both obvious evil.

Compared to Wahisietel who is so neutral no-one knows where he is, Kharshai who is of average power and possible imprisoned, Jhallan who is a generally quite nice and just wants to survive the ritual, Akthanakos who was imprisoned and Azzandra; none of these guys have shown any evil intent and they are all Zarosian.

Sliske is the only question mark, as far as we know his allegiance is Zarosian, but he certainly isn't too nice given the barrows cursing episode and the awakening of nex.