Jiblix and Ken Genosis Demodded Over Speaking Out

[Crossed_Body]

Oo how?

Had you read my posts, you'd know. But fine, I'll tell you. Add the persons you've reported and check their highscores from time to time. Mind you that they might change names (unlikely if they really are bots), so check your friendslist to see if they did.

If they're gone from the highscores, or if their stats have been reduced since you've reported them, you can assume (but not be certain) your report did something.

 

 

I think everyone is aware of where you stand with your friends but I don't think that's what she meant. I think it was meant as your friends bot, you support botting, so do you bot?

What kind of answer are you expecting?

You accomplish nothing with that question, except maybe make people assume things about me that aren't true. So I'd like you to stop pursuing that line of reasoning.

[i_trollz_u]

^^^

 

this guy is obviously a bot.

[Deathknell]

^^^

 

this guy is obviously a bot.

 

And all his friends are too.

[Erewhon2]

It doesn't look like Jiblix was 'demodded' for his reporting, it would appear it was for his comments that were 'anti-Jagex' probably not the best thing to do if you wanted to remain a pmod, in fact I wouldn't have been surprised if they had kicked him from the game for his comments. Not taking anything away from the video itself, which was a real eye opener. However if mod status didn't worry him then he can say what he likes. It still does not support your arguments, RS is a community and condoning botting exacerbates the situation. If I had friends who played a game by cheating or playing against the rules, I would speak to them or at least question the type of company I was keeping.....unless of course I was doing the same..... :shame:

 

I think everyone is aware of where you stand with your friends but I don't think that's what she meant. I think it was meant as your friends bot, you support botting, so do you bot?

What kind of answer are you expecting?

You accomplish nothing with that question, except maybe make people assume things about me that aren't true. So I'd like you to stop pursuing that line of reasoning.

 

Actually its very relevant and my point is that you are probably one of a number of people who have contradictory principles, on the one hand you/they complain about the bots and the demodding of Jiblix (although personally I think they are 2 separate issues), yet on the other you/they condone and even applaud this cheating behaviour in your friends. I would suggest you get off the fence, either you agree with it or you don't. Behaviour like this may seem meaningless in a game, but it is a reflection of peoples standards in real life...hence I queried the fact that you may use bots yourself, but want to appear that its a problem that is soley Jagex's. This would therefore explain these conflicting views.

[Bxpprod]

I think everyone is aware of where you stand with your friends but I don't think that's what she meant. I think it was meant as your friends bot, you support botting, so do you bot?

 

 

If you're going to argue for the sake of arguing, can you at least avoid the ridiculous straw men? And the assertions of another's intentions when it reads nothing like the way you have interpreted it.

[Guest jrhairychest]

It doesn't look like Jiblix was 'demodded' for his reporting, it would appear it was for his comments that were 'anti-Jagex' probably not the best thing to do if you wanted to remain a pmod, in fact I wouldn't have been surprised if they had kicked him from the game for his comments. Not taking anything away from the video itself, which was a real eye opener. However if mod status didn't worry him then he can say what he likes. It still does not support your arguments, RS is a community and condoning botting exacerbates the situation. If I had friends who played a game by cheating or playing against the rules, I would speak to them or at least question the type of company I was keeping.....unless of course I was doing the same..... :shame:

 

I think everyone is aware of where you stand with your friends but I don't think that's what she meant. I think it was meant as ‘your friends bot, you support botting, so do you bot?’

What kind of answer are you expecting?

You accomplish nothing with that question, except maybe make people assume things about me that aren't true. So I'd like you to stop pursuing that line of reasoning.

 

Actually its very relevant and my point is that you are probably one of a number of people who have contradictory principles, on the one hand you/they complain about the bots and the demodding of Jiblix (although personally I think they are 2 separate issues), yet on the other you/they condone and even applaud this cheating behaviour in your friends. I would suggest you get off the fence, either you agree with it or you don't. Behaviour like this may seem meaningless in a game, but it is a reflection of peoples standards in real life...hence I queried the fact that you may use bots yourself, but want to appear that its a problem that is soley Jagex's. This would therefore explain these conflicting views.

 

I agree here. Crossed, I'm expecting an honest answer. You've not been shy in coming forward about your support of botters and that you will not report them so....do you bot?

[Deathknell]

I think everyone is aware of where you stand with your friends but I don't think that's what she meant. I think it was meant as your friends bot, you support botting, so do you bot?

 

 

If you're going to argue for the sake of arguing, can you at least avoid the ridiculous straw men? And the assertions of another's intentions when it reads nothing like the way you have interpreted it.

 

Could you at least stop saying every single person disagreeing with you is using straw men. You say that. Every. Single. Damn. Time! :wall:

[Crossed_Body]

Actually its very relevant and my point is that you are probably one of a number of people who have contradictory principles, on the one hand you/they complain about the bots and the demodding of Jiblix (although personally I think they are 2 separate issues), yet on the other you/they condone and even applaud this cheating behaviour in your friends. I would suggest you get off the fence, either you agree with it or you don't. Behaviour like this may seem meaningless in a game, but it is a reflection of peoples standards in real life...hence I queried the fact that you may use bots yourself, but want to appear that its a problem that is soley Jagex's. This would therefore explain these conflicting views.

I did not complain about bots, in fact, I've stated that they are beneficial to my style of play because they make the resources I buy cheaper. I also agree that the demodding of Jiblix is separate from the issue we're currently talking about. I do not applaud the cheating behaviour of my friends, I have not said I do, I merely do not judge them personally based on it.

You people keep twisting my posts around and reading in between lines that aren't there. How about you actually argue the prime subject (Do reports make a difference?) instead of pursuing this fruitless witch hunt?

 

I've made my arguments towards reports not impacting botting in the big picture. I have backed them up. You people keep hammering on my personal opinions instead of the subject, mostly because you cannot care to prove that the people you report get banned or infracted.

[Bxpprod]

I think everyone is aware of where you stand with your friends but I don't think that's what she meant. I think it was meant as your friends bot, you support botting, so do you bot?

 

 

If you're going to argue for the sake of arguing, can you at least avoid the ridiculous straw men? And the assertions of another's intentions when it reads nothing like the way you have interpreted it.

 

Could you at least stop saying every single person disagreeing with you is using straw men. You say that. Every. Single. Damn. Time! :wall:

 

Fun fact, he wasn't actually disagreeing with me. And I wouldn't be saying it if they weren't using straw man arguments, which, unfortunately, is a common occurrence.

[Crossed_Body]

You say that. Every. Single. Damn. Time! :wall:

At least this time he is correct.

[Deathknell]

You say that. Every. Single. Damn. Time! :wall:

At least this time he is correct.

 

Maybe so, but it really is a case of the boy who cried wolf. <_<

[Kimberly]

You say that. Every. Single. Damn. Time! :wall:

At least this time he is correct.

 

Maybe so, but it really is a case of the boy who cried wolf. <_<

 

.....Noooott reallyyyy...

 

That would be more appropriate if this was a time where you had to depend on another person's word to understand the situation. Except here, that's not the case. Rationally, we can look at the argument Jr and Crossed are having ourselves and come to our own conclusions.

 

And hopefully we can see why asking someone why they bot, especially given the forum rules we have in place, is not only futile (there is only one safe answer that won't get your post removed) but completely irrelevant to the discussion.

 

This is supposed to be a mild debate, not a political smear campaign.

[Deathknell]

Yet sadly this topic is being posted on by Cross and ll0rt which means it's gonna be trolled. :rolleyes:

[Kimberly]

Yet sadly this topic is being posted on by Cross and ll0rt which means it's gonna be trolled. :rolleyes:

 

Then you could help the situation by not engaging those you perceive as troublemakers or report them.

 

Other than that, let's keep on topic please. :P

[Erewhon2]

I did not complain about bots, in fact, I've stated that they are beneficial to my style of play because they make the resources I buy cheaper. I also agree that the demodding of Jiblix is separate from the issue we're currently talking about. I do not applaud the cheating behaviour of my friends, I have not said I do, I merely do not judge them personally based on it.

You people keep twisting my posts around and reading in between lines that aren't there. How about you actually argue the prime subject (Do reports make a difference?) instead of pursuing this fruitless witch hunt?

 

I've made my arguments towards reports not impacting botting in the big picture. I have backed them up. You people keep hammering on my personal opinions instead of the subject, mostly because you cannot care to prove that the people you report get banned or infracted.

 

The discussion here is about the Jiblix situation, I have been discussing players responsibilities towards supporting Jagex in trying to stop botting and cheating game play (including the subject of Jiblix, who as I said before had an excellent video and opportunity, but trashed it with his contemptuous comments at Jagex). This is not a witch hunt and its unfortunate you feel that way, I have exampled you and 'others' as you are not alone in your standpoint.

 

I was encouraging the debate by pointing out some flaws in your opinion, particularly the contradiction (as above) of supporting cheating behaviour of friends/acquaintances and others, stating that you do not applaud it, yet you do not judge them personally or do anything about it. Those points do leave you wide open for challenge. I cannot prove whether reports make a difference or not, thats just one piece in an armory of things we can do, including addressing the issue with those we know who bot.

 

Its not my role as a player to insist on individual feedback for each potential bot I report, I leave that for Jagex to sort out...as long as I know I am doing my bit. Therefore I come back to the issue of people arguing against reporting because it doesn't suit them, or that they may support the use of bots.

 

I suppose with you I was trying to clearly work out if you were for bots or against them to establish why you held to your particular viewpoint, well you have clearly answered that you are for them by stating that you won't challenge others for using them and in fact find them beneficial, this is where we will have to disagree.

 

Just to add that personal opinions are exactly what feeds a debate, how can you argue a point if you don't have an opinion? :P

 

 

And hopefully we can see why asking someone why they bot, especially given the forum rules we have in place, is not only futile (there is only one safe answer that won't get your post removed) but completely irrelevant to the discussion.

 

This is supposed to be a mild debate, not a political smear campaign.

 

The question to Crossed was rhetorical in context to the debate, he did not need to answer, it was to emphasis the point I was making and cause him to reflect on that issue, and has no relevance to potentially breaking the forum rule of 'how to cheat'. Please see my points to Crossed above to understand the relevance. I am in no way attempting some kind of 'smear campaign' and I resent the implication. Personally I thought it was an interesting debate, challenging someones standpoint that I disagree with while he is trying to get me to see his point of view .....hence: debate. :huh:

[Crossed_Body]

. I cannot prove whether reports make a difference or not, thats just one piece in an armory of things we can do, including addressing the issue with those we know who bot.

You are aware that the majority of bots you see aren't actually individual players, but rather gold farming companies, yes? What you fail to see is that even if everybody who knew people who botted convinced them to do otherwise, the problem would remain because there are companies which financial backing comes from botten en mass.

So yes, the problem should be solved by Jagex, and not it's players. No matter what you do, you cannot solve this issue. Jagex needs to cut the evil at its roots, and permanently disable bot clients, only then will the problem be solved.

You're also naive if you think people will stop doing something that benefits them just because I went "hey man, you should that because... hum, e-morals and stuff".

 

And I've already stated that you can prove whether reports make a difference or not. You can even conduct a study, just go to major bot locations, spend 30m-1h reporting people and checking their names out. In 1 month, check if they've changed names and check their highscores, and note down the percentage of infractions your reports caused.

Of course you'd also have to take into account that sometimes jmods and pmods do banning sweeps in popular locations (and, as you can see, they do nothing because 2 more bots pop up when they ban 1), so you'd have to discount those.

[Awesomic]

As an old player, who watched this whole Jiblix fiasco closely, I am appaled at Jagex.

 

Though I did chuckle to myself because this was an obvious move by Jagex' PR department to discredit Jiblix' claims on his video by removing his moderator status. The interesting thing here is that the whole situation backfired, the video gained a large audience and popularity because of what Jagex did. I wouldn't have known about the video if it weren't for what they did to Jiblix.

 

In my opinion, this mistake on Jagex' half was made because they underestimated just how much some of this community still cares.

[Guest jrhairychest]

That would be more appropriate if this was a time where you had to depend on another person's word to understand the situation. Except here, that's not the case. Rationally, we can look at the argument Jr and Crossed are having ourselves and come to our own conclusions.

 

And hopefully we can see why asking someone why they bot, especially given the forum rules we have in place, is not only futile (there is only one safe answer that won't get your post removed) but completely irrelevant to the discussion.

 

This is supposed to be a mild debate, not a political smear campaign.

 

Interesting points Kimberly. Asking someone if they bot doesnt break the forum rules as Im not asking how to cheat, Im asking if he does. Youre more interested in the fact that Im asking if a player cheats and for posters on this forum conducting smear campaigns. What doesnt seem to concern you are that the player has freely admitted he supports botting and admits his friends do. He does nothing about it so essentially hes aiding them cheating by not taking any action and disguising it as some sort of loyalty. I guess your priorities are different from mine. Not sure who youre referring to around the smear campaign comments but the player seems to be doing a good enough job on his own without mine or anyone elses help.

 

From the original question I asked Ive never seen a significant No!. I could interpret this as lying by omission. Ive drawn my own conclusions on this.

 

The current debate is not irrelevant to the overall topic, it is in fact tied to the original points surrounding Jib. Erewhon2 is quite correct about this. After all the furore has died down Jib and Crossed arent dissimilar. Both think Jagex are the source of these issues and both are apathetic about reporting for their own reasons. Crucially, neither have took any responsibility to address the issues through the official channels of reporting (Jib not bothering, Crossed supporting). Neither have any leg to stand on in complaining that Jagex does nothing. Unless you do things officially Jagex can turn round and say Well what did you do about it? Where were your reports.....................?. Erewhon2 was also correct in placing the community at the heart of it. If all these posters are fed up to the hilt with bots and are more expert than Jagex, they should prove it by their willingness to combat the problem.

 

You say that. Every. Single. Damn. Time! :wall:

Dont worry about it. Its just used as a crappy defence to avoid answering questions or to stop someone else having an opinion they dont agree with.

[Crossed_Body]

Both think Jagex are the source of these issues

Jagex isn't the source. Bots are the source. Jagex is, however, the only and only permanent solution. And that's the last you'll hear from me.

You're either an exceptional troll or somebody with no notion whatsoever of what rhetoric, logical, and argumentative skill are.

[Kimberly]

He does nothing about it so essentially he’s aiding them cheating by not taking any action and disguising it as some sort of loyalty. I guess your priorities are different from mine

 

By your very black and white logic, I wonder how many of the active RS players out there would be considered bot supporters because they've simply tuned them out. Surely over half of us would be considered 'part of the problem'. For someone who sees this game as having only one achievement (fun) I'm shocked that you would then assume that because they don't find filing useless reports fun, that you would then use it as a means to denounce them.

 

If there weren't hundreds of reports that went without satisfying resolution I would agree with your argument. But the bald truth of it is that for now, nothing is stemming the tide of bots. And it's natural for the community to grow apathetic. But how you leap from "not reporting" to assuming someone is botting from what you could interpret as a lie of omission is completely beyond me.

 

IT would be much more pleasant debating with you if you simply showed your points and worried less about the personal digs in between, because I do think you make well-reasoned arguments in between. But to get to those well reasoned points is like dragging a horse to the glue factory.

[Erewhon2]

The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing.

 

Edmund Burke (British Statesman and Philosopher, 1729-1797)

 

 

Need I say more......really?

[Crossed_Body]

“The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing.”

 

Edmund Burke (British Statesman and Philosopher, 1729-1797)

 

 

Need I say more......really?

 

That quote is under the assumption that good men can do something. When that something is reporting bots, and when reporting bots does nothing but waste your time and Jagex's time, that something counts as nothing.

It is also under the assumption that bots are somehow "evil", when they can positively or negatively affect players that don't use them, depending on their playstyle.

 

Yes, wasting Jagex's time. Because as I stated previously, even if they did act on reports (because the vast majority of the time they don't, as any player with common sense can tell, from varied observations, and from lack of evidence pointing otherwise), more bots would simply pop up because Jagex doesn't care enough to develop a system that sistematically bans them automatically.

 

 

"Get money, smoke trees, have consensual loving relationships with ladies of dubious ethical conduct."

~Mahatma Ghandi

I can quote people too xD ain't I so smart and isn't my argument compelling? lololol

[Kimberly]

The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing.

 

Edmund Burke (British Statesman and Philosopher, 1729-1797)

 

Apples and oranges.

[Guest jrhairychest]

Both think Jagex are the source of these issues

Jagex isn't the source. Bots are the source. Jagex is, however, the only and only permanent solution. And that's the last you'll hear from me.

You're either an exceptional troll or somebody with no notion whatsoever of what rhetoric, logical, and argumentative skill are.

 

I don't recall addressing you in my last post so no idea why you've posted. I'll take your advice.

 

 

By your very black and white logic, I wonder how many of the active RS players out there would be considered bot supporters because they've simply tuned them out. Surely over half of us would be considered 'part of the problem'. For someone who sees this game as having only one achievement (fun) I'm shocked that you would then assume that because they don't find filing useless reports fun, that you would then use it as a means to denounce them.

 

We ARE part of the problem. We do aid the rule breakers by knowlingly letting them get away with it. The community is on the front line so the least we can do is aid things when we can. I don't mean turning in thousands of reports but ignoring the problem won't make it any better. If we don't do anything for ourselves then we can't expect to moan about it. I've never denied that Jagex has some big points to address. Unfortunately so does the community.

 

If there weren't hundreds of reports that went without satisfying resolution I would agree with your argument. But the bald truth of it is that for now, nothing is stemming the tide of bots. And it's natural for the community to grow apathetic. But how you leap from "not reporting" to assuming someone is botting from what you could interpret as a lie of omission is completely beyond me.

I guess giving up is the easy option then and most people are happy to take it if you let them. We can't stem the tide of bots because we give ourselves excuses for the reasons outlined above. The lie of ommission is simple. Go back and take a look. I asked a very direct question on a few occasions and I expected a very direct answer. I didn't get anything either way. Any innocent player would be shouting from the hilltops that they don't bot. People lie by answering with everything but the truth.

 

IT would be much more pleasant debating with you if you simply showed your points and worried less about the personal digs in between, because I do think you make well-reasoned arguments in between. But to get to those well reasoned points is like dragging a horse to the glue factory.

On the contrary I take people as I find them. If they're polite to me I'll be polite back. If they treat me in some sort of arsey way I'll return the favour. You have took this attitude yourself in some of your posts but you are a lot more subtle than me. However thank you for the compliment and take that the same way yourself. I'd like to see you debate more in-depth e.g. Erewhon2 had some good points that you didn't answer. You see, miracles can and do happen :-D

[Kimberly]

I've never denied that Jagex has some big points to address. Unfortunately so does the community.

 

What, other than botting, does the community need to address that has so suddenly sprung up recently?

 

I didn't get anything either way. Any innocent player would be shouting from the hilltops that they don't bot. People lie by answering with everything but the truth.

 

So then he's a bot.

 

Logical conclusion, I'm sure.

 

On the contrary I take people as I find them. If they're polite to me I'll be polite back. If they treat me in some sort of arsey way I'll return the favour. Erewhon2 had some good points that you didn't answer.

 

I didn't even read her posts. Just yours and Crossed, and then Erewhon when she addressed me directly.

 

I'm not saying you should kiss people's asses but perhaps try to construct a proper argument. But as you put it, I guess a miracle won't be happening today.