Jiblix and Ken Genosis Demodded Over Speaking Out

[Carl]

Wasn't Nicole an entirely different person in a situation many months ago?

[HunterDexter]

it makes me question the intelligence of runescapes players if they truly believe jagex is only interested in short-term profit. Yes, jagex is a company that is focused on profits. Key word being company. They are not a non profit organization. It costs money to pay employees, to run servers, to host events, to pay for the buildings utilities etc. The more Runescape expands, the more money is needed to keep Runescape running, the more money Jagex needs. If you don't like a certain update, don't do it. If your training spot is invaded by bots, find a new one. If you truly are sick of RS and believe it will never bounce back, then quit. Jiblix was de-modded for a reason, and a damn good one. No CEO wants to hear about an employee shining negative light on their own company. I don't go to work and talk about how this and that is wrong. Obviously the company is aware of the bots, you don't think the 100 threads that appear on the RSOF make an impact? It takes time to fix things, it cost money to implement new technology. Muting spam bots is pointless since they will be back in 5 minutes. It is a waste of resources to have a Jmod sit at the GE in every world and ban bots. Jagex is going after the main source of botting - the websites. Theres nearly 200k+ accounts logged in at anytime, that's a lot of people to keep track of. Jagex offers worlds for x-amount of QP and Skill total, play in those and you won't see the endless amount of level 3 spam bots or accounts with only 1 level 99 botting a spot.

 

You sir are sickening.

[Yay0siris]

Jagex is kind enough to offer a service to those who wish to use it. It's up to the consumer whether or not they wish to pay for the services. If you're not happy with the customer service or product, then move onto the next one. We live in a world where not everyone is going to share the same opinion. Moral of the story? You can't please everybody.

 

Let me put Jiblix's situation into a different context. Jiblix works at customer service for a grocery store. The grocery store was advertising a product on sale but sold out. A customer approaches Jiblix upset about this and Jiblix says to the customer, "Yeah this grocery store is undeserving of your business, try the grocery store down the road." The manager hears this comment from a distance and fires Jiblix. Seems fair to me.

 

I'm not here to defend Jagex for every dissatisfying action they make, I'm simply trying to ask people to look at it from their point of view. Imagine working for a company that caters to 100's of thousands of users with different interests, opinions, life experiences, etc etc. Each user is different, each user has a like and dislike. Just because something bothers you doesn't mean the next 100 people in line don't approve of the update.

 

And the botting issue..well.. it's the biggest issue and most controversial one at that. It's obvious Jagex is doing something about it. We see accounts banned, XP rolled back, websites being closed, everyday. But like any war, there will be people fighting back, finding new ways to infiltrate the system. Is it Jagex's fault that they release an update and people would rather choose their time to exploit bugs etc then actually enjoy the update? People get so upset over a bot taking their spot. Imagine if the botter was an actual person, would there be a difference? The same character would still be performing the same task. Nothing would change expect the fact that instead of a bot operating the account, a person would be.

 

If anything it's the players who choose to manipulate prices who ruin the game. They are an indirect reason as to why people need to bot just to be able to keep up with the people who choose to stand around ge all day and merch, or roll dice, or play 12 hours a day to legitimately get enough gp to afford a rare item. I don't care about Rs, but I know if I did I sure as hell wouldn't waste half my life to have to keep up with the economy - heck, i'd bot too.

[HunterDexter]

First of, player moderation is not a job, it's voluntary. Player moderators are the link between Jagex and the playerbase, and Jiblix has been one who adressed problems that are causing great disturbance for the players. He didn't told us not to vote for Jagex, he gave his honest opinion, Jagex doesn't deserve to win. Do you have to agree with everything a company says? No, as a employee you don't even have to, and as a volunteer especially not. Without critics for a product, a product isn't managed well. Jagex tries to stop all the bad critics and only wants to see the good ones to keep feeling special and super and stuff, that's wrong.

 

Secondly, you tell that we, normal players, should just sod off from the bot infested places. Is that not a reversed world? Legit players are forced to leave spots because a lot of people choose not to play fairly.

You also say: if those bots are in fact real players, then there wouldn't be an issue. Wrong, it would be an issue, those bots are playing when the real owner is asleep/away. That character wouldn't online then, ergo that spot would be available to other players. But now, these bots are camping spaces for maybe 24/7, occupieing them from the legit players. Normally, at this point of the day (it's 0:30 AM here atm), there aren't a lot players online and, before the sheer rise in bots, those training spots were deserted, now, I just see those bots still camping, the same I saw maybe 8 hours ago. So, I and the other legit players are seemingly forced to play on the few servers left without bots, well, that's gonna get crowded too...

[i_trollz_u]

Volunteers don't have to agree with Jagex, but Jagex likewise doesn't have any obligation to keep them. If you go volunteer or do community service for any organization and then start bashing them you would get fired, regardless of whether you got payed or not.

 

Also, I think like 99% of the playerbase ranting against bots does a pretty good job at being critics, i don't think a pmod making a video actively trying to make Runecsape seem like a heinous game to the entire world is necessary or beneficial. He has every right to do whatever he feels like, but he shouldn't expect to be under the service of jagex if he decides to take the "jagex sucks" route.

[Yay0siris]

What I'm trying to say is if all 200,000 players online were legit players, then the problem would still exist of there being over crowding. IF you eliminated all the bots, there would be 200,000-x amount of players, X being the number of bots. I don't know for sure how many bots make up the online players at any given time, but it would cause runescape to go down an even more downhill slope because there would be a significant less amount of players online. In order for a game to flourish, it needs a lot of paying subscribers, not a cult following like Rsc has at the moment. Let us pretend that for one moment that jagex ceased all bots and they were replaced with legitimate players. What problems do we still have within the runescape community? There's a numerous amount of problems. I believe Jagex needs to work at correcting these problems and runescape will drastically improve and whilst doing this, continue to work on implementing a feature(S) to make botting harder/impossible without making it harder for the legitimate community, whether it be a coding thing or more difficult random events, maybe randomly generated questions that need to be answered whenever your fatigue reaches 100% or else you can't gain XP/resources (yes, reintroduce the fatigue system). But for the time being, stop bashing jagex and take a more modest approach. Jagex is well aware of the botting issues. Play in higher skill total worlds and you will not see as many bots.

[Jiblix]

it makes me question the intelligence of runescapes players if they truly believe jagex is only interested in short-term profit. Yes, jagex is a company that is focused on profits. Key word being company. They are not a non profit organization. It costs money to pay employees, to run servers, to host events, to pay for the buildings utilities etc. The more Runescape expands, the more money is needed to keep Runescape running, the more money Jagex needs. If you don't like a certain update, don't do it. If your training spot is invaded by bots, find a new one. If you truly are sick of RS and believe it will never bounce back, then quit. Jiblix was de-modded for a reason, and a damn good one. No CEO wants to hear about an employee shining negative light on their own company. I don't go to work and talk about how this and that is wrong. Obviously the company is aware of the bots, you don't think the 100 threads that appear on the RSOF make an impact? It takes time to fix things, it cost money to implement new technology. Muting spam bots is pointless since they will be back in 5 minutes. It is a waste of resources to have a Jmod sit at the GE in every world and ban bots. Jagex is going after the main source of botting - the websites. Theres nearly 200k+ accounts logged in at anytime, that's a lot of people to keep track of. Jagex offers worlds for x-amount of QP and Skill total, play in those and you won't see the endless amount of level 3 spam bots or accounts with only 1 level 99 botting a spot.

 

1) I never worked for Jagex.

 

2) I never doubted they were unaware of bots. What I doubt is that they understand how there actions (as a company) are having a negative impact on the players.

 

3) While they may gain control over those sites for copyright/trademark infridgements (or w/e the reasoning is) - it is by no means an effective way to actually deal with the problem. If you actually follow what is happening, those botting websites just move over to a different host.

 

The only way to effectively control the botting problem is by changing the game in a way were it removes the incentive to bot. Unfortunately the incentive will never go away completely but things like RWT and selling gold could go away. I doubt that will ever happen again as we've seen how that went for Jagex (bringing back the wild/free trade years later).

 

Jibby

 

@Pal

 

MMG's response wasn't towards my recent thread. It was posted on a similar thread shortly after the re-release of FT/W.

[Deathknell]

Jagex is kind enough to offer a service to those who wish to use it. It's up to the consumer whether or not they wish to pay for the services. If you're not happy with the customer service or product, then move onto the next one. We live in a world where not everyone is going to share the same opinion. Moral of the story? You can't please everybody.

 

Let me put Jiblix's situation into a different context. Jiblix works at customer service for a grocery store. The grocery store was advertising a product on sale but sold out. A customer approaches Jiblix upset about this and Jiblix says to the customer, "Yeah this grocery store is undeserving of your business, try the grocery store down the road." The manager hears this comment from a distance and fires Jiblix. Seems fair to me.

 

This is valid, but consider this:

 

1) In your scene, Jibby would've said they are undeserving of your business, he never said to go to another store.

2) The boss didn't catch him saying it at the store. He caught him saying it at a Blockbuster video. (youtube)

[Guest jrhairychest]

 

This is valid, but consider this:

 

1) In your scene, Jibby would've said they are undeserving of your business, he never said to go to another store.

2) The boss didn't catch him saying it at the store. He caught him saying it at a Blockbuster video. (youtube)

 

I wouldn't want somone representing any part of my company who did any of those. Whichever way it's dressed up they went public about a company they were supposed to represent (yes a fmod/pmod DOES represent the company).

[Deathknell]

Yes, but I don't think you they should punish you for your personal opinion said in your personal life at a third party site or location.

[Guest jrhairychest]

Yes, but I don't think you they should punish you for your personal opinion said in your personal life at a third party site or location.

 

Personal opinion and public location....not a great combination :huh:

[Deathknell]

Yes, but I don't think you they should punish you for your personal opinion said in your personal life at a third party site or location.

 

Personal opinion and public location....not a great combination :huh:

 

To me, the fact that it was on Youtube makes a huge difference. It's like getting into a fight with someone 2 blocks away from a high school and they suspend you for it. If it's not on their site, it's none of their business.

[Leaf]

Yes, but I don't think you they should punish you for your personal opinion said in your personal life at a third party site or location.

 

Personal opinion and public location....not a great combination :huh:

 

To me, the fact that it was on Youtube makes a huge difference. It's like getting into a fight with someone 2 blocks away from a high school and they suspend you for it. If it's not on their site, it's none of their business.

It's different from a fight on the street, since it actually is putting Jagex in a bad light. Of course Jagex deserves the criticism, but they can remove Pmod status for no reason other than I-don't-like-you, since it's their game and they make the rules.

[Jesus_Status]

It doesn't matter through what media the opinion is expressed if someone affiliated with your company is speaking ill of that company you can't keep them around. I'm not saying what Jiblix did was wrong, everyone has the right to express their opinion but it was also necessary for jagex to demod him.

[Deathknell]

Yes, but I don't think you they should punish you for your personal opinion said in your personal life at a third party site or location.

 

Personal opinion and public location....not a great combination :huh:

 

To me, the fact that it was on Youtube makes a huge difference. It's like getting into a fight with someone 2 blocks away from a high school and they suspend you for it. If it's not on their site, it's none of their business.

It's different from a fight on the street, since it actually is putting Jagex in a bad light. Of course Jagex deserves the criticism, but they can remove Pmod status for no reason other than I-don't-like-you, since it's their game and they make the rules.

 

Not saying they can't, saying they shouldn't. It hardly promotes open discussion when target people who criticize them.

[Guest jrhairychest]

Not saying they can't, saying they shouldn't. It hardly promotes open discussion when target people who criticize them.

There's ways and means to do things. Going public and criticising on the net, viewable by all, when you're representing the organisation isn't a good idea. Even if I despised the company I worked for I wouldn't go public on ANY website about them. Not worth my job or in RS case fmod/pmod.

[Deathknell]

Not saying they can't, saying they shouldn't. It hardly promotes open discussion when target people who criticize them.

There's ways and means to do things. Going public and criticising on the net, viewable by all, when you're representing the organisation isn't a good idea. Even if I despised the company I worked for I wouldn't go public on ANY website about them. Not worth my job or in RS case fmod/pmod.

 

Well, maybe he thought he had to? Maybe he flet used and neglected as a mod? It sucks that you're trying to help and because of that you can't speak your mind.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that it's about degrees. I don't think the consequences were equal to the criticism.

[pal2002]

Yes, but I don't think you they should punish you for your personal opinion said in your personal life at a third party site or location.

 

Personal opinion and public location....not a great combination :huh:

 

To me, the fact that it was on Youtube makes a huge difference. It's like getting into a fight with someone 2 blocks away from a high school and they suspend you for it. If it's not on their site, it's none of their business.

It's different from a fight on the street, since it actually is putting Jagex in a bad light. Of course Jagex deserves the criticism, but they can remove Pmod status for no reason other than I-don't-like-you, since it's their game and they make the rules.

So basically, Jagex is (has become) a narcissistic company that hates free speech.

[i_trollz_u]

Not saying they can't, saying they shouldn't. It hardly promotes open discussion when target people who criticize them.

There's ways and means to do things. Going public and criticising on the net, viewable by all, when you're representing the organisation isn't a good idea. Even if I despised the company I worked for I wouldn't go public on ANY website about them. Not worth my job or in RS case fmod/pmod.

 

Well, maybe he thought he had to? Maybe he flet used and neglected as a mod? It sucks that you're trying to help and because of that you can't speak your mind.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that it's about degrees. I don't think the consequences were equal to the criticism.

 

Intentionally trying to give bad PR to Runescape seems to be deserving of de-modding. To jagex, the golden joystick for whatever reason means something, so it was pretty deserving to them.

 

@pal

 

I notice the video is still up on youtube and they haven't removed it yet, so i don't exactly see how you can say jagex is trying crush free speech lol.

 

Demodding in a silly video game =/= silencing or capitalistic oppression.

[pal2002]

I notice the video is still up on youtube and they haven't removed it yet, so i don't exactly see how you can say jagex is trying crush free speech lol.

 

Demodding =/= silencing.

You must have not been on RSOF when news of this first broke- there were hidden threads EVERYWHERE. If you don't think so, go make a jiblix thread on RSOF even now discussing the demodding and see what happens.

 

Jagex has no legal right to remove that video - yes it has game foottage - but it is WAY on the side of "fair use" of US copyright law. It is a obviously a commentary. If it comes to an actual copyright fight, Jagex will not win.

[Deathknell]

Not saying they can't, saying they shouldn't. It hardly promotes open discussion when target people who criticize them.

There's ways and means to do things. Going public and criticising on the net, viewable by all, when you're representing the organisation isn't a good idea. Even if I despised the company I worked for I wouldn't go public on ANY website about them. Not worth my job or in RS case fmod/pmod.

 

Well, maybe he thought he had to? Maybe he flet used and neglected as a mod? It sucks that you're trying to help and because of that you can't speak your mind.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that it's about degrees. I don't think the consequences were equal to the criticism.

 

Intentionally trying to give bad PR to Runescape seems to be deserving of de-modding. To jagex, the golden joystick for whatever reason means something, so it was pretty deserving to them.

 

@pal

 

I notice the video is still up on youtube and they haven't removed it yet, so i don't exactly see how you can say jagex is trying crush free speech lol.

 

Demodding in a silly video game =/= silencing or capitalistic oppression.

 

Giving them bad PR? I didn't see anything in his video that wasn't the f2p game at any given time. Then he gave an opinion that wasn't trying to give anyone PR.

 

And no, not in itself crushing free speech, but it certainly sends the message to other mods who might want to say something. "Toe the line or we'll toss you out." Personally, I'd love to see the forum mods go on strike. Let's see Jagex try to control their forums then, lol.

 

And Pal, not they aren't turning into one. They've been one for a while.

[pal2002]

 

And Pal' date=' not they aren't turning into one. They've been one for a while.

[/quote']

 

Here's what makes me so sad and makes me still fight. Here is my story.

 

Once upon a time in 2002, I remember Jagex in its infancy - what a naive noob I was, ended up giving away my pass to scammer - and I completely gave jagex crap recoveries + email when I registered....So, in pretty much desperation to get my lvl 40 char back (not bad then tbh) I actually emailed Jagex - when Jagex had a real contact email, giving them random details of my account - such as that random firemaking level that is not on the hiscores. Guess what, I got a PERSONAL email from a Jagex staff member from giving me my poor F2P account back and thanked me for playing their game. You have no idea how much that made me love this company - it is why I have decided to stay loyal to RS all of these years, and spread the word to everyone.

 

For everyone who have thought I was always Jagex hater, let me tell you, I WAS THE BIGGEST JAGEX FANBOY EVER.

 

It just saddens me so much to see how everything deteriorated so fast in the past few years with Andrew's sellout. This is not the Jagex I remember...certainly not the Jagex that touched me in 2002.

[i_trollz_u]

Not saying they can't, saying they shouldn't. It hardly promotes open discussion when target people who criticize them.

There's ways and means to do things. Going public and criticising on the net, viewable by all, when you're representing the organisation isn't a good idea. Even if I despised the company I worked for I wouldn't go public on ANY website about them. Not worth my job or in RS case fmod/pmod.

 

Well, maybe he thought he had to? Maybe he flet used and neglected as a mod? It sucks that you're trying to help and because of that you can't speak your mind.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that it's about degrees. I don't think the consequences were equal to the criticism.

 

Intentionally trying to give bad PR to Runescape seems to be deserving of de-modding. To jagex, the golden joystick for whatever reason means something, so it was pretty deserving to them.

 

@pal

 

I notice the video is still up on youtube and they haven't removed it yet, so i don't exactly see how you can say jagex is trying crush free speech lol.

 

Demodding in a silly video game =/= silencing or capitalistic oppression.

 

Giving them bad PR? I didn't see anything in his video that wasn't the f2p game at any given time. Then he gave an opinion that wasn't trying to give anyone PR.

 

And no, not in itself crushing free speech, but it certainly sends the message to other mods who might want to say something. "Toe the line or we'll toss you out." Personally, I'd love to see the forum mods go on strike. Let's see Jagex try to control their forums then, lol.

 

And Pal, not they aren't turning into one. They've been one for a while.

 

He tried to convince people not to vote for jagex in the golden joysticks, which to jagex anyway, means a lot. That's directly hurting their reputation.

 

@pal

 

I also don't see how hiding threads about the demodding is considered destroying free speech, companies never want to start any drama when someone gets fired and it's really not suppose to be anyone else's business anyway.

 

It would be the same if say a famous player got banned for macroing or glitching, it's has nothing to do with whether it makes jagex looks bad.

 

I don't have any problem with the video on youtube and i probably agree with it and think it has every right to be there, but it shouldn't exactly be expected for jiblix to still represent jagex after making it. I don't see why it's unreasonable for pmods, people who voluntarily work for jagex without getting paid and could leave at any time, to have to support to company. It's not like jagex is actually forcing them to be pmods/will ban them from the game if they're not loyal.

[pal2002]

Jagex has a right not to mention the video publicly. But actually censoring the subject after it is mentioned is way too far. There is a difference between deleting spam vs censoring an entire subject, especially one of criticism, the latter is done only by communist regimes around the world.

Ie. You can go find many Microsoft bashing threads in Microsoft forums or anti Obama comments on the white house site.

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

He tried to convince people not to vote for jagex in the golden joysticks, which to jagex anyway, means a lot. That's directly hurting their reputation.

 

@pal

 

I also don't see how hiding threads about the demodding is considered destroying free speech, companies never want to start any drama when someone gets fired and it's really not suppose to be anyone else's business anyway.

 

It would be the same if say a famous player got banned for macroing or glitching, it's has nothing to do with whether it makes jagex looks bad.

 

I don't have any problem with the video on youtube and i probably agree with it and think it has every right to be there, but it shouldn't exactly be expected for jiblix to still represent jagex after making it. I don't see why it's unreasonable for pmods, people who voluntarily work for jagex without getting paid and could leave at any time, to have to support to company. It's not like jagex is actually forcing them to be pmods/will ban them from the game if they're not loyal.

 

It's been established before that there is, indeed, a difference between "They don't deserve to win this year" and "Don't vote for Jagex". Even if you could twist this into a defamation case, then it'd have to be dismissed since what was shown was nothing outside of fact.

 

The issue of "free speech" is a non-issue when it comes to privately-owned forums. Companies have a right to decide which speech gets shown, and which doesn't. However, that only goes as far as the company's own slice of the Internet; anything outside of that is typically considered protected under the free speech clause. I also disagree in that it'd "be the same" as a famous player being banned, as this issue is a lot more hot-button than the whole Duke Freedom fiasco, as a for-instance.

 

I don't know about the "forcing PMods to be loyal" statement - it certainly felt that way a while ago. It probably feels like that even more so. I mean, if you're not supporting Jagex, then you're basically a waste of space to them.