Recharging Rapier

[Avid43]

I've been wondering how you people tend to recharge your Rapiers. Do you pay 2mil or 200k+20k tokens?

[Urza285]

2m might seem more time efficient for most players, but when you get up there in prestige you can end up doing 2 occult or higher floors in roughly 40-50 minutes max (including time wasted finding a team) and probably hit 20k tokens.

[Avid43]

Yeah that's what I'm thinking, I only dung with randoms but seem to be getting faster and faster at finishing floors as I move up the levels.

[Nico Robin]

Defenitely the 20k tokens and 200k. It shouldn't take you long at all. But if you have cash to go haywire, then by all means, pay the man the 2mil :P

[Aiel]

if 2m/income>Time/20k tokens+200k/income, use money, if not tokens it's pretty simple really.

 

So for example, I can get ~200k dg xp/hr and I value my time at 3.5m/hr, so 2m/3.5m/hr~=35 minutes, 20k tokens~=1 hr+200k/3.5m/hr~=3 minutes so it's almost twice the time if I use tokens.

[Avid43]

Hmm, I can't really get anywhere near thatt xp or gp/hr, I could probably make 1.8mil faster than I could get 200k Dung xp.

[Lord Paul]

Money all the way! You need to value your time crazy low or be at such a high dung level to get fast xp that it's rarely worth it to recharge with tokens. Of course, this point is moot if you're 200m Dung. :P

[Avid43]

I guess I should ask myself, can I earn 1.8mil gp faster than 200k dung xp? In my case I think I can so once I earn my rapier I will pay cash for the recharge. Thanks for the responses, it helped to make my mind up!! :D

 

And if I ever get to the point where I can earn mega fast Dung xp them I will re-consider.

[Rick James]

However, eventually you will get to the point where you'll have tokens coming out of your ears and (even if you don't) can replace them much faster than you could replace the gp you would use to recharge. 1.8m gp will always (more or less) take the same amount of effort to earn, but as time goes on 20k tokens gets easier and easier.

 

Go with tokens.

[Lord Paul]

However, eventually you will get to the point where you'll have tokens coming out of your ears and (even if you don't) can replace them much faster than you could replace the gp you would use to recharge. 1.8m gp will always (more or less) take the same amount of effort to earn, but as time goes on 20k tokens gets easier and easier.

 

Go with tokens.

 

I would imagine that as time goes on (not accounting for inflation, bots, and whatnot), you'll start to make money faster. If not, you're doing something wrong.

[Rick James]

However, eventually you will get to the point where you'll have tokens coming out of your ears and (even if you don't) can replace them much faster than you could replace the gp you would use to recharge. 1.8m gp will always (more or less) take the same amount of effort to earn, but as time goes on 20k tokens gets easier and easier.

 

Go with tokens.

 

I would imagine that as time goes on (not accounting for inflation, bots, and whatnot), you'll start to make money faster. If not, you're doing something wrong.

Most people never become able to make more than about 2-3m an hour. Even lowbies have access to some of the best mid-high income sources: herb farming and other dailies. Not everyone has the skill to sell leech or the intelligence to merchant. A lot of maxed players are very wealthy, but the majority of them have low incomes.

 

The acceleration of your dungeoneering xp is greater than the acceleration of your wealth. In addition, gp can be exchanged for countless other goods, but dungeoneering tokens can only be exchanged for three things: chaotics and other items (which after you have them all you never need to buy again), xp (which after you have level 120 or 200m you no longer need to buy), and recharging chaotics. End game the tokens have literally one use - to "sell" for 90 gp each by recharging your chaotics.

[Hedgehog]

If your goal is to achieve dungeoneering xp, tokens don't have value (after you obtain all the good rewards), so you can't factor dg xp/hr into the equation.

[Platinum_Myr]

I'd say until you have all the dg rewards (assuming you want all of them) then don't use tokens. After you have bought them, use tokens because you don't really need them for anything, and wasting tokens on xp is really silly.

[Lord Paul]

I'd say until you have all the dg rewards (assuming you want all of them) then don't use tokens. After you have bought them, use tokens because you don't really need them for anything, and wasting tokens on xp is really silly.

 

How is it silly? It would be stupid of me to not spend my surplus tokens on XP. You don't really have to value your time all that high for it to be efficient to fork over the 2m gp for a recharge.

[Platinum_Myr]

What gp/hr time value are you assuming? I'm saying that if you have the tokens anyways, the xp gained isn't that much (1/10th the speed of doing dungeons). So lets assume 2m gp/hr base. That means a rapier recharge is going to take 1hr of time. But if we assume you are going to have surplus tokens anyways, (already value dg time) then it costs 0 time, but at the expense of (assuming 100k dg xp/hr) 1/10th of an hr.

 

Obviously I don't know what gp/hr or xp/hr and whether you care about dungeon xp or not. If you don't care about getting more dungeon xp, then it's 2hrs based on 100k dg/xp an hr (which I assume is very slow). But if you're using tokens on xp then you clearly value dungeon xp already, hence I feel like having some tokens for a recharge is valuable. It entirely depends on how much xp/hr you get while dg, and how much gp/hr you can make comfortably.

 

Personally I plan on doing a bit of both once I have all the other rewards: keep around a pile of 40-60k tokens for chaotics recharges, then spend tokens on xp whenever I have extra on top of that :)

[Lord Paul]

4m/hr.. not all that difficult. So that would take 30 minutes to recharge.

 

If you wanted to do it with tokens, you would need to get ~445k dg xp/hr for it to be the same time spent. (That's assuming the 3 minutes to make 200k, lol)

[Vezon Dash]

The OP doesn't even have 80 dung (that's what your sig says).

 

Don't use your tokens until you get *All* of the essential items such as the scrolls, the prayers you want, and the chaotics that you want.

[MudRune]

With 80 dung I'd definitely go with 2mil, at that level and dungeoneering with randoms 20k tokens will take forever and those tokens could be better spent on scrolls or a second chaotic. If the rumors I hear are true a floor around that level takes a good 40-60minutes and he'll need at least 3-4 floors for 20k tokens. But, that being said, I haven't really dung'd since the new key update, if floor times are a lot faster at that level feel free to correct me.

[Avid43]

Some of you will probably laugh at this but the fastest I've ever done a floor is 34mins, that's with me leading the party and trying my hardest to organise people. I've only really gotten back into it after the key update as before that it was just impossible with randoms. People just don't listen or just stand around doing nothing. I sit there at home banging my head on the desk lol.

 

Anyway, thanks a lot for all the replies - I have got the help and advice I was looking for.

[bedman]

I'd say until you have all the dg rewards (assuming you want all of them) then don't use tokens. After you have bought them, use tokens because you don't really need them for anything, and wasting tokens on xp is really silly.

 

How is it silly? It would be stupid of me to not spend my surplus tokens on XP. You don't really have to value your time all that high for it to be efficient to fork over the 2m gp for a recharge.

Actually, it would be silly to hold off recharging with tokens in favor of saving it to get DG xp.

 

Basically, by spending the 20k tokens on DG xp instead of recharging your chaotic, you are spending 1.8M gp for 20k dg xp. If you can gain 300k dg xp per hour, that means you'd have to make 1.8 x 300k/20k = 27 M gp per hour to make that worth it.

 

 

You can also look at it by comparing 2 situations where you recharge your chaotics (and where you value your dg xp)

 

Situation A:

You spend 20k tokens to recharge your chaotic.

You regain the tokens, which takes 40 minutes at 300k dg xp/hour

You regain the 200k cash, which takes 4 minutes at 3M gp/hour

=> You end up break even on tokens and cash, and 200k dg xp richer: Grand total of time: 44 minutes

 

Situation B:

You spend the full 2M to recharge your chaotics

You regain the 2M cash, wich takes 40 minutes at 3M gp/hour

ASSUMING YOU VALUE DG XP, you now get as much DG xp as in situation A, while using tokens for xp: You gain 182k dg xp and spend the 18.2k tokens on xp for a grand total of 200k dg xp. This takes 36 minutes at 300k dg xp/hour.

=> you end up break even on cash and tokens, and 200k dg xp richer: Grand total of time: 76 minutes

[Th e Doctor]

I'd say until you have all the dg rewards (assuming you want all of them) then don't use tokens. After you have bought them, use tokens because you don't really need them for anything, and wasting tokens on xp is really silly.

 

How is it silly? It would be stupid of me to not spend my surplus tokens on XP. You don't really have to value your time all that high for it to be efficient to fork over the 2m gp for a recharge.

Actually, it would be silly to hold off recharging with tokens in favor of saving it to get DG xp.

 

Basically, by spending the 20k tokens on DG xp instead of recharging your chaotic, you are spending 1.8M gp for 20k dg xp. If you can gain 300k dg xp per hour, that means you'd have to make 1.8 x 300k/20k = 27 M gp per hour to make that worth it.

 

 

You can also look at it by comparing 2 situations where you recharge your chaotics (and where you value your dg xp)

 

Situation A:

You spend 20k tokens to recharge your chaotic.

You regain the tokens, which takes 40 minutes at 300k dg xp/hour

You regain the 200k cash, which takes 4 minutes at 3M gp/hour

=> You end up break even on tokens and cash, and 200k dg xp richer: Grand total of time: 44 minutes

 

Situation B:

You spend the full 2M to recharge your chaotics

You regain the 2M cash, wich takes 40 minutes at 3M gp/hour

ASSUMING YOU VALUE DG XP, you now get as much DG xp as in situation A, while using tokens for xp: You gain 182k dg xp and spend the 18.2k tokens on xp for a grand total of 200k dg xp. This takes 36 minutes at 300k dg xp/hour.

=> you end up break even on cash and tokens, and 200k dg xp richer: Grand total of time: 76 minutes

 

You're alive?!

 

Also, lawyered.

[bedman]

I still lurk daily :-)

[Lord Paul]

Yes, lawyered indeed. I didn't take into consideration the dg xp that you would be getting along with the tokens.

 

Great post, bedman. It's nice to see you come out of the woodwork, even if it is for this. :P