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Paying money for yt shoutouts - discussion (split from 200m in all skills)


Bxpprod

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Mod Edit:

I've split this discussion off from the 200M in all skills thread to allow for the discussion of YTers accepting shoutout money and other grey-area trust trade activities. Please bear in mind this one key thing before posting: respect the naming names rule. Educating people is one thing, naming and shaming is another.

 

Thanks and happy posting. :)

 

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Oh no one cares about how people made their money in 2013. Buyables are worthless. Most of the front page abused the hell out of FT in one way or another, whether it was donations, dicing, multilogging 07 for gp, running (frost) bot farms, abusing staking glitches, straight up RWT.

 

Shoutouts are one of the most honest ways people make their gp nowadays.

 

How is offering a shoutout NOT something that would fall under the RWT rule.

 

Real-world trading is the term used for activities which occur outside of the game environment which result in the real-world sale or purchase of items, gp or services with the intention of supplying or advancing a Jagex in-game character other than by the means which are incorporated into the game.

This includes, but is not limited to: purchasing gold or items for RuneScape on 3rd party websites, buying a RuneScape account on 3rd party websites, paying someone to increase your account's experience (XP) and paying someone to complete quests and activities on your behalf.

 

For the record, I am well aware this isn't limited to Alkan, but rather that there are many YTers who do it.

Edited by Kimberly
Moved discussion to a new threaad
 

[bleep] OFF HOW ARE U SO [bleep]ING LUCKY U PIECE OF [bleep]ING SHIT [bleep] [bleep] [wagon] MUNCHER

 

 

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He is offering a service for RSGP. He is not offering real world money for it.

 

Unlike, for example, stating on public forums that you went and got a job and used the wages to buy RSGP, as it is more efficient than earning gp in game. That would fall under the RWT rule. Not that any top players would do that!

Asmodean <3

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Out of game service (a shoutout on youtube) in return for In Game GP.

 

Read the bolded part of the quote.

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[bleep] OFF HOW ARE U SO [bleep]ING LUCKY U PIECE OF [bleep]ING SHIT [bleep] [bleep] [wagon] MUNCHER

 

 

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I just did.

 

which result in the real-world sale or purchase of items, gp or services.

 

Which results in the real world sale of services.

 

Not the sale of services for currency in the game environment. They are very specific.

Asmodean <3

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This is going to cycle back and forth as an argument as to whether or a YOUTUBE VIDEO (real world) advertising [insert] constitutes sale of a service and whether the rule carries both ways or it only matters if you're getting rid of gp and receiving it. We are obviously on different sides of that fence.

 

[bleep] OFF HOW ARE U SO [bleep]ING LUCKY U PIECE OF [bleep]ING SHIT [bleep] [bleep] [wagon] MUNCHER

 

 

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It is an irrelevant debate as whatever Jagex puts in the RWT rule is now completely void anyway, as I can't remember the last time that rule was enforced, plus they sell everything themselves. It's up to each player now to decide whether or not RWT should be against the rules for them.

Asmodean <3

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It's an interesting debate that you two had going on really... But still... I think Mr. Sarcy is right.

 

Using the first example that popped into my head - prostitution: They sell their bodies/sexual expertise for real life money.

 

Runescape twist on it: A RSer says they'll sleep with you if you give them X RSGP. So they're sell their bodies/sexual expertise for RSGP.

 

It is the real world sale of services for RSGP.

 

 

Now whilst a shoutout on a youtube video is virtually pointless in most respects except by very big channels or YT "stars" (think RWJ, Smosh etc) if they say "I'll give you 2 mins of Efame amongst the RS community by giving you a shoutout if you give me some RSGP" - then, of course, it IS exactly the same as the above example and it is against the rules.

 

 

But yeah, as Fallstar said, who know's when they bother enforcing it, hell SoF and the like is almost selling vast amounts of GP/XP itself.

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Reacting impulsively and saying what's on your mind feels oh so good.. for a little, until you realize you just started WWIII.


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He doesn't sell spins, he didn't create the EoC, and he hasn't sold his shoutout money for $ yet. So he isn't actually representative of anything wrong with the game at all.

I wish I could sell my spins. I have 50 from doing daily challenges sitting waiting to be used.

 

I just did.

 

which result in the real-world sale or purchase of items, gp or services.

 

Which results in the real world sale of services.

 

Not the sale of services for currency in the game environment. They are very specific.

That is stupid, if there also had to be sale of the real world service then that would be like paying a youtuber rsgp in order for him to sell you a shoutout for dollars. Why would the rule require a player to pay the youtuber in both currencies?
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He doesn't sell spins, he didn't create the EoC, and he hasn't sold his shoutout money for $ yet. So he isn't actually representative of anything wrong with the game at all.

I wish I could sell my spins. I have 50 from doing daily challenges sitting waiting to be used.

 

I just did.

 

which result in the real-world sale or purchase of items, gp or services.

 

Which results in the real world sale of services.

 

Not the sale of services for currency in the game environment. They are very specific.

That is stupid, if there also had to be sale of the real world service then that would be like paying a youtuber rsgp in order for him to sell you a shoutout for dollars. Why would the rule require a player to pay the youtuber in both currencies?

 

I was just quoting the rules Bxpprod got from the site. The rules state that only real world sales of services (I.e. taking dollars for services, not in game gp) is RWT. Obviously this is stupid because RWT is so prevalent it is actually easier to convert RSGP into real world currency than it is to convert between real world currencies. It's also stupid that a RWT rule exists since RWTscape. But if you care what Jagex write in their rules anymore, then taking shoutouts for RSGP isn't technically against the rules.

Asmodean <3

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It's an interesting debate that you two had going on really... But still... I think Mr. Sarcy is right.

 

Using the first example that popped into my head - prostitution: They sell their bodies/sexual expertise for real life money.

 

Runescape twist on it: A RSer says they'll sleep with you if you give them X RSGP. So they're sell their bodies/sexual expertise for RSGP.

 

It is the real world sale of services for RSGP.

 

 

Now whilst a shoutout on a youtube video is virtually pointless in most respects except by very big channels or YT "stars" (think RWJ, Smosh etc) if they say "I'll give you 2 mins of Efame amongst the RS community by giving you a shoutout if you give me some RSGP" - then, of course, it IS exactly the same as the above example and it is against the rules.

 

 

But yeah, as Fallstar said, who know's when they bother enforcing it, hell SoF and the like is almost selling vast amounts of GP/XP itself.

 

 

only one thing you messed up on

 

any girl with any type of body can sell it for money, but for youtube, goodluck starting it and getting paid the 1st day.

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It's an interesting debate that you two had going on really... But still... I think Mr. Sarcy is right.

 

Using the first example that popped into my head - prostitution: They sell their bodies/sexual expertise for real life money.

 

Runescape twist on it: A RSer says they'll sleep with you if you give them X RSGP. So they're sell their bodies/sexual expertise for RSGP.

 

It is the real world sale of services for RSGP.

 

 

Now whilst a shoutout on a youtube video is virtually pointless in most respects except by very big channels or YT "stars" (think RWJ, Smosh etc) if they say "I'll give you 2 mins of Efame amongst the RS community by giving you a shoutout if you give me some RSGP" - then, of course, it IS exactly the same as the above example and it is against the rules.

 

 

But yeah, as Fallstar said, who know's when they bother enforcing it, hell SoF and the like is almost selling vast amounts of GP/XP itself.

 

 

only one thing you messed up on

 

any girl with any type of body can sell it for money, but for youtube, goodluck starting it and getting paid the 1st day.

While that's true, it's pretty irrelevant to the analogy.

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Giving shoutouts for money isn't a honest way to make money, Fallstar, whether it is against the rules or not.

 

Yes, I agree. If you read what I say "Obviously this is stupid..." "It's also stupid..." it was just some people were mistakenly saying that it was against the rules, which I was correcting. There are few players who have hit the top page and made their money 'honestly', and many of them have done far worse than do shoutouts, so if you want to have a go at someone for their money making method, you're missing the forest for the trees by having a go at Alkan.

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Asmodean <3

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Real-world trading is the term used for activities which occur outside of the game environment which result in the real-world sale or purchase of items, gp or services with the intention of supplying or advancing a Jagex in-game character other than by the means which are incorporated into the game.

 

The rule doesn't specify what kind of currency is used, only that the trade must occur outside the means incorporated into the game, e.g. outside drop-trading, PvP, the trade system, treasure hunts or whatever - even Solomon's is 'incorporated into the game'. The phrases 'outside the game environment', 'other than by the means which are incorporated into the game' and 'real-world' are (almost) synonymous here. Any trade which involves an item or service that doesn't exist or can't be traded in RS (such as a youtube shoutout) necessarily must be a real-world trade.

 

Since the rule mentions both sale and purchase of GP, the rule works both ways, e.g. the real-world purchase of gp (bought with shoutouts) or the real-world sale of gp (for shoutouts).

 

Now I understand it's a known fact that people do this, and it's fair to discuss it in the context of 200m in all skills (in the sense that it can allow people to get there, if Jagex doesn't ban them) but please remember that discussing the morality of such things has led to flamewars before and is banned. RWT is also against the Tip.It Forum Rules.

Edited by Kimberly
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I've split this discussion off from the 200M in all skills thread to allow for the discussion of YTers accepting shoutout money and other grey-area trust trade activities. Please bear in mind this one key thing before posting: respect the naming names rule. Educating people is one thing, naming and shaming is another.

 

Thanks and happy posting. :)

hzvjpwS.gif

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I just did.

 

which result in the real-world sale or purchase of items, gp or services.

 

Which results in the real world sale of services.

 

Not the sale of services for currency in the game environment. They are very specific.

Pretty sure the rule also applies to virtual goods and services; you would still be violating the rule if you traded RSGP for something in another MMO, for example, and I don't doubt that they'd go with that interpretation if they decided to enforce it. As you've said though, it's a moot point until they do decide to enforce it.

 

I'll try to dig up some precedent for it (Assuming it's not all buried in the mod forums), but even then it seems like a 'letter of the law' sort of thing to say it's not against the rule. It's not there in plain text but it's almost impossible not to know what they meant.

 

A common problem with the downright poor writing in Jagex's rules, actually...

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