Bxpprod Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 (edited) Mod Edit:I've split this discussion off from the 200M in all skills thread to allow for the discussion of YTers accepting shoutout money and other grey-area trust trade activities. Please bear in mind this one key thing before posting: respect the naming names rule. Educating people is one thing, naming and shaming is another. Thanks and happy posting. :) ---------------------------------- Oh no one cares about how people made their money in 2013. Buyables are worthless. Most of the front page abused the hell out of FT in one way or another, whether it was donations, dicing, multilogging 07 for gp, running (frost) bot farms, abusing staking glitches, straight up RWT. Shoutouts are one of the most honest ways people make their gp nowadays. How is offering a shoutout NOT something that would fall under the RWT rule. Real-world trading is the term used for activities which occur outside of the game environment which result in the real-world sale or purchase of items, gp or services with the intention of supplying or advancing a Jagex in-game character other than by the means which are incorporated into the game.This includes, but is not limited to: purchasing gold or items for RuneScape on 3rd party websites, buying a RuneScape account on 3rd party websites, paying someone to increase your account's experience (XP) and paying someone to complete quests and activities on your behalf. For the record, I am well aware this isn't limited to Alkan, but rather that there are many YTers who do it. Edited July 21, 2013 by Kimberly Moved discussion to a new threaad [bleep] OFF HOW ARE U SO [bleep]ING LUCKY U PIECE OF [bleep]ING SHIT [bleep] [bleep] [wagon] MUNCHER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallstar Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 He is offering a service for RSGP. He is not offering real world money for it. Unlike, for example, stating on public forums that you went and got a job and used the wages to buy RSGP, as it is more efficient than earning gp in game. That would fall under the RWT rule. Not that any top players would do that! Asmodean <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bxpprod Posted July 20, 2013 Author Share Posted July 20, 2013 Out of game service (a shoutout on youtube) in return for In Game GP. Read the bolded part of the quote. 1 [bleep] OFF HOW ARE U SO [bleep]ING LUCKY U PIECE OF [bleep]ING SHIT [bleep] [bleep] [wagon] MUNCHER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallstar Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 I just did. which result in the real-world sale or purchase of items, gp or services. Which results in the real world sale of services. Not the sale of services for currency in the game environment. They are very specific. Asmodean <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bxpprod Posted July 20, 2013 Author Share Posted July 20, 2013 This is going to cycle back and forth as an argument as to whether or a YOUTUBE VIDEO (real world) advertising [insert] constitutes sale of a service and whether the rule carries both ways or it only matters if you're getting rid of gp and receiving it. We are obviously on different sides of that fence. [bleep] OFF HOW ARE U SO [bleep]ING LUCKY U PIECE OF [bleep]ING SHIT [bleep] [bleep] [wagon] MUNCHER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallstar Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 It is an irrelevant debate as whatever Jagex puts in the RWT rule is now completely void anyway, as I can't remember the last time that rule was enforced, plus they sell everything themselves. It's up to each player now to decide whether or not RWT should be against the rules for them. Asmodean <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezkaton Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 It's an interesting debate that you two had going on really... But still... I think Mr. Sarcy is right. Using the first example that popped into my head - prostitution: They sell their bodies/sexual expertise for real life money. Runescape twist on it: A RSer says they'll sleep with you if you give them X RSGP. So they're sell their bodies/sexual expertise for RSGP. It is the real world sale of services for RSGP. Now whilst a shoutout on a youtube video is virtually pointless in most respects except by very big channels or YT "stars" (think RWJ, Smosh etc) if they say "I'll give you 2 mins of Efame amongst the RS community by giving you a shoutout if you give me some RSGP" - then, of course, it IS exactly the same as the above example and it is against the rules. But yeah, as Fallstar said, who know's when they bother enforcing it, hell SoF and the like is almost selling vast amounts of GP/XP itself. Reacting impulsively and saying what's on your mind feels oh so good.. for a little, until you realize you just started WWIII.2672nd person to reach 2496 total.Thanks to Wicked for the awesome siggy :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai_tong Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 He doesn't sell spins, he didn't create the EoC, and he hasn't sold his shoutout money for $ yet. So he isn't actually representative of anything wrong with the game at all.I wish I could sell my spins. I have 50 from doing daily challenges sitting waiting to be used. I just did. which result in the real-world sale or purchase of items, gp or services. Which results in the real world sale of services. Not the sale of services for currency in the game environment. They are very specific.That is stupid, if there also had to be sale of the real world service then that would be like paying a youtuber rsgp in order for him to sell you a shoutout for dollars. Why would the rule require a player to pay the youtuber in both currencies? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallstar Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 He doesn't sell spins, he didn't create the EoC, and he hasn't sold his shoutout money for $ yet. So he isn't actually representative of anything wrong with the game at all.I wish I could sell my spins. I have 50 from doing daily challenges sitting waiting to be used. I just did. which result in the real-world sale or purchase of items, gp or services. Which results in the real world sale of services. Not the sale of services for currency in the game environment. They are very specific.That is stupid, if there also had to be sale of the real world service then that would be like paying a youtuber rsgp in order for him to sell you a shoutout for dollars. Why would the rule require a player to pay the youtuber in both currencies? I was just quoting the rules Bxpprod got from the site. The rules state that only real world sales of services (I.e. taking dollars for services, not in game gp) is RWT. Obviously this is stupid because RWT is so prevalent it is actually easier to convert RSGP into real world currency than it is to convert between real world currencies. It's also stupid that a RWT rule exists since RWTscape. But if you care what Jagex write in their rules anymore, then taking shoutouts for RSGP isn't technically against the rules. Asmodean <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number1 Boss Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 It's an interesting debate that you two had going on really... But still... I think Mr. Sarcy is right. Using the first example that popped into my head - prostitution: They sell their bodies/sexual expertise for real life money. Runescape twist on it: A RSer says they'll sleep with you if you give them X RSGP. So they're sell their bodies/sexual expertise for RSGP. It is the real world sale of services for RSGP. Now whilst a shoutout on a youtube video is virtually pointless in most respects except by very big channels or YT "stars" (think RWJ, Smosh etc) if they say "I'll give you 2 mins of Efame amongst the RS community by giving you a shoutout if you give me some RSGP" - then, of course, it IS exactly the same as the above example and it is against the rules. But yeah, as Fallstar said, who know's when they bother enforcing it, hell SoF and the like is almost selling vast amounts of GP/XP itself. only one thing you messed up on any girl with any type of body can sell it for money, but for youtube, goodluck starting it and getting paid the 1st day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazycdcm Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 It's an interesting debate that you two had going on really... But still... I think Mr. Sarcy is right. Using the first example that popped into my head - prostitution: They sell their bodies/sexual expertise for real life money. Runescape twist on it: A RSer says they'll sleep with you if you give them X RSGP. So they're sell their bodies/sexual expertise for RSGP. It is the real world sale of services for RSGP. Now whilst a shoutout on a youtube video is virtually pointless in most respects except by very big channels or YT "stars" (think RWJ, Smosh etc) if they say "I'll give you 2 mins of Efame amongst the RS community by giving you a shoutout if you give me some RSGP" - then, of course, it IS exactly the same as the above example and it is against the rules. But yeah, as Fallstar said, who know's when they bother enforcing it, hell SoF and the like is almost selling vast amounts of GP/XP itself. only one thing you messed up on any girl with any type of body can sell it for money, but for youtube, goodluck starting it and getting paid the 1st day.While that's true, it's pretty irrelevant to the analogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auror Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Giving shoutouts for money isn't a honest way to make money, Fallstar, whether it is against the rules or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boredom RS Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Giving shoutouts for money isn't a honest way to make money, Fallstar, whether it is against the rules or not. Neither are a lot of ways people make money now days but hey.. Its a way to make money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallstar Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Giving shoutouts for money isn't a honest way to make money, Fallstar, whether it is against the rules or not. Yes, I agree. If you read what I say "Obviously this is stupid..." "It's also stupid..." it was just some people were mistakenly saying that it was against the rules, which I was correcting. There are few players who have hit the top page and made their money 'honestly', and many of them have done far worse than do shoutouts, so if you want to have a go at someone for their money making method, you're missing the forest for the trees by having a go at Alkan. 1 Asmodean <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quyneax Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 (edited) Real-world trading is the term used for activities which occur outside of the game environment which result in the real-world sale or purchase of items, gp or services with the intention of supplying or advancing a Jagex in-game character other than by the means which are incorporated into the game. The rule doesn't specify what kind of currency is used, only that the trade must occur outside the means incorporated into the game, e.g. outside drop-trading, PvP, the trade system, treasure hunts or whatever - even Solomon's is 'incorporated into the game'. The phrases 'outside the game environment', 'other than by the means which are incorporated into the game' and 'real-world' are (almost) synonymous here. Any trade which involves an item or service that doesn't exist or can't be traded in RS (such as a youtube shoutout) necessarily must be a real-world trade. Since the rule mentions both sale and purchase of GP, the rule works both ways, e.g. the real-world purchase of gp (bought with shoutouts) or the real-world sale of gp (for shoutouts). Now I understand it's a known fact that people do this, and it's fair to discuss it in the context of 200m in all skills (in the sense that it can allow people to get there, if Jagex doesn't ban them) but please remember that discussing the morality of such things has led to flamewars before and is banned. RWT is also against the Tip.It Forum Rules. Edited July 21, 2013 by Kimberly 1 Supporter of Zaros | Quest Cape owner since 22 may 2010 | No skills below 99 | Total level 2595 | Completionist Cape owner since 17th June 2013 | Suggestions 99 summoning (18th June 2011, previously untrimmed) | 99 farming (14th July 2011) | 99 prayer (8th September 2011) | 99 constitution (10th September 2011) | 99 dungeoneering (15th November 2011) 99 ranged (28th November 2011) | 99 attack, 99 defence, 99 strength (11th December 2011) | 99 slayer (18th December 2011) | 99 magic (22nd December 2011) | 99 construction (16th March 2012) 99 herblore (22nd March 2012) | 99 firemaking (26th March 2012) | 99 cooking (2nd July 2012) | 99 runecrafting (12th March 2012) | 99 crafting (26th August 2012) | 99 agility (19th November 2012) 99 woodcutting (22nd November 2012) | 99 fletching (31st December 2012) | 99 thieving (3rd January 2013) | 99 hunter (11th January 2013) | 99 mining (21st January 2013) | 99 fishing (21st January 2013) 99 smithing (21st January 2013) | 120 dungeoneering (17th June 2013) | 99 divination (24th November 2013) Tormented demon drops: twenty effigies, nine pairs of claws, two dragon armour slices and one elite clue | Dagannoth king drops: two dragon hatchets, two elite clues, one archer ring and one warrior ring Glacor drops: four pairs of ragefire boots, one pair of steadfast boots, six effigies, two hundred lots of Armadyl shards, three elite clues | Nex split: Torva boots | Kalphite King split: off-hand drygore mace 30/30 Shattered Heart statues completed | 16/16 Court Cases completed | 25/25 Choc Chimp Ices delivered | 500/500 Vyrewatch burned | 584/584 tasks completed | 4000/4000 chompies hunted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberly Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 I've split this discussion off from the 200M in all skills thread to allow for the discussion of YTers accepting shoutout money and other grey-area trust trade activities. Please bear in mind this one key thing before posting: respect the naming names rule. Educating people is one thing, naming and shaming is another. Thanks and happy posting. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alg Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 I just did. which result in the real-world sale or purchase of items, gp or services. Which results in the real world sale of services. Not the sale of services for currency in the game environment. They are very specific.Pretty sure the rule also applies to virtual goods and services; you would still be violating the rule if you traded RSGP for something in another MMO, for example, and I don't doubt that they'd go with that interpretation if they decided to enforce it. As you've said though, it's a moot point until they do decide to enforce it. I'll try to dig up some precedent for it (Assuming it's not all buried in the mod forums), but even then it seems like a 'letter of the law' sort of thing to say it's not against the rule. It's not there in plain text but it's almost impossible not to know what they meant. A common problem with the downright poor writing in Jagex's rules, actually... 1 I painted some stuff and put it on tumblr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stingman Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 My opinion is that paying gp for yt shoutouts would fall under the no RWT rule. But what do I know...I guess the opinion that matters is Jagex. And they are too busy working on RS3 atm it seems to even wash the dishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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