24 March 2014 - Fate of the Gods

[strilmus]

I chuckle whenever I think of Hazeel being alive or not as a minor change.

 

"Okay guys I'm here who's ready to make history?"

 

"Alright, we got him on camera for this scene, shove him back into the cupboard."

 

"nooooooooooo"

[HunterDexter]

Well, that's more lines than he got in ROTM anyway. :p

[Tansuo]

I'm somewhat disappointed that the only "choice" we get is whether to give Zaros a supposedly weakened body or to give him a strong body...

 

We can't just.. "walk away", I mean obviously we can not finish the quest.. but I was hoping it would be possible to just be like "nope!"

 

I posted a similar (if a lot, lot, simpler) view of this a few days back and got slated on reddit :P

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/21bdnb/an_example_of_the_ridiculous_expectations_placed/

[Sorator]

I chuckle whenever I think of Hazeel being alive or not as a minor change.

 

"Okay guys I'm here who's ready to make history?"

 

"Alright, we got him on camera for this scene, shove him back into the cupboard."

 

"nooooooooooo"

I think that's actually a good example of why they didn't do something similar with the return of Zaros - they haven't been able to do much with Hazeel as a character because for half of players, he's dead and gone. That's why we haven't seen him do much of, well, anything. (Granted, I'm one of the players for whom he is dead, so I'm not a great judge of that, but it sounds like he sure hasn't do much.)

[Sy_Accursed]

I think it was a given that Zaros would return no matter your choice but when they spoke of it at runefest (and more recently) they did imply there was several progressive choices and that Zaros would have distinct looks based on how much you helped or hindered his return.

 

Instead we got a choice of Zaros spewing particles from a convienetly hidden 'wound' or Zaros sans particles.

 

Also I do not think the Hazeel reason for underusage holds true. Lorewise it is super easy to overcome "After you failed to assist me the remainents of the cult forged ahead and succeeded in my resurection" job done. Choice problems removed.

Its less problematic than the Temple of Ikov one seeing as whilst we hinder his return (if you take that route) we don't actually do anything to stop him entirely. Where as in Temple of Ikov if we turn around and help the Guardians we kinda put them on high alert, they are aware this guy is after it now, so it becomes a bit of a stretch when you just get a letter saying "bad news he tried again and got it"

 

For Jagex it is a great go to excuse for not using him, but in reality it does not stop him being used in the slightest since they have already set precedent of being able to 'oh it happened anyway' plot points to overcome old quest choices for the sake of newer better content.

[Sorator]

Only then the player choice really would be meaningless; we'd have the same discontent, only moreso, and with more legitimate grounds. I'd actually be upset over such a thing, because that would be an in-game bait-and-switch, whereas this was just some vague promises made outside the game that maybe weren't fully lived up to when the actual content was released - I'm much more okay with the latter than the former, partly because in my opinion they were lived up to, from what I know of it (which isn't much), and partly because they were out-of-game promises that were also made a while back, and plans change.

 

In other words, what you describe would be far worse, in my opinion, than what they actually did.

[Yoko Kurama]

Personally, I think they should just stop with the whole "multiple choices" thing. Runescape doesn't really have the budget or capacity to truly develop meaningful choices that are different, so they have to sort of give us extremely limited choices that usually come at the end of quests, have little meaningful difference, and things  end up happening similarly more or less. It's more or less a well-intentioned charade. I think they had their heart in the right place, but it just isn't working.

[Sy_Accursed]

Personally, I think they should just stop with the whole "multiple choices" thing. Runescape doesn't really have the budget or capacity to truly develop meaningful choices that are different, so they have to sort of give us extremely limited choices that usually come at the end of quests, have little meaningful difference, and things  end up happening similarly more or less. It's more or less a well-intentioned charade. I think they had their heart in the right place, but it just isn't working.

 Agreed.

I don't mind them giving us choice as long as they are clear that choices only make cosmetic alterations or are 2ndary to the main quest (E.g the battle choices in TWW which can alter how difficult the fights are and cause Fiara to die) continually trying to plug the idea that player gets meaningful choices just does not work when they can't live up to them and they clearly don't have the dev scope (or desire) to make truly divergent paths of content to follow through on them.

But of course it does require them to follow through on what they promise as well.

 

The 'meaningful choices' in Death of Chivalery amounted to all of 'will Saradomin yell at you and do as he pleases or will saradomin be happy you let him do as he pleases. Whilst Zaros return, whilst somewhat sold as cosmetic was still supposed to be significant differences and multiple forms not a binary pick 1 or the other particles vs no particles.

[Micromal]

Found some post-quest dialogue from Azzanadra if the player chose to sabotage Zaros:

 

If Zaros dies as a result of your actions [...] I will pour every ounce of my strength into your destruction. Nothing will stop me! Do you understand? Nothing!

First thought: Whoooh! I'm glad I supported him!

Second thought: this could indicate that Zaros won't ultimately die, seeing as that would most likely grant a percentage of the players a boss-fight that would make Nomad seem like a goblin...

[Saradomin_Mage]

Found some post-quest dialogue from Azzanadra if the player chose to sabotage Zaros:

If Zaros dies as a result of your actions [...] I will pour every ounce of my strength into your destruction. Nothing will stop me! Do you understand? Nothing!

First thought: Whoooh! I'm glad I supported him!

 

Second thought: this could indicate that Zaros won't ultimately die, seeing as that would most likely grant a percentage of the players a boss-fight that would make Nomad seem like a goblin...

 

What if Azzanadra dies first? :P

 

I wish Jagex would be more willing to make us pay for our consequences, though. Support Zaros in FOTG, and fight a specific boss in a later quest; sabotage him, and fight a different boss with different mechanics/difficulty.

[Platinum_Myr]

I understand the limitations of true divergence on quest choices but.. It annoys me that the alternative is to "help" him but slightly less. I mean I feel like the whole narrative essentially didn't even change at the end... Half the lines were still identical.

 

It's not that I expected zaros to not return, but players can't even choose to try to stop him. Instead we can... get him the simulacrum of light, and... injure him?

 

It just didn't feel well presented.

 

And if there are true technical problems with players getting their own divergent choices, then developers shouldn't advertise that we will.

 

I like Saradomin_Mage's suggestion, of some alternating changes, even if it's not major plotline, for future quests.