24 March 2014 - Fate of the Gods

[W aldo]

 

i'm more concerned about this alleged "Great Revision" and this talk of "cycles". sounds like the universe is soon to be destroyed and reborn

 

Inb4 Runescape conversion to Mechscape.

[Morghul]

don't scare me like that, bro

[Hedgehog]

 

I guess Dramen isn't an elder god then

 

Well, Dramen really couldn't have been the name anyway, right? It would have had to have been something like "Dra" due to the 3 letter naming convention.

 

It is kind of funny that Michelle just went and revealed that, probably without realizing it wasn't revealed yet, since originally it was supposed to have been revealed by the sleeper.

 

Nothing says they have to have 1 syllable/3 letter names

[helring]

 

 

I guess Dramen isn't an elder god then

 

Well, Dramen really couldn't have been the name anyway, right? It would have had to have been something like "Dra" due to the 3 letter naming convention.

 

It is kind of funny that Michelle just went and revealed that, probably without realizing it wasn't revealed yet, since originally it was supposed to have been revealed by the sleeper.

 

Nothing says they have to have 1 syllable/3 letter names

 

 

I remember Osborne said at one time that they all would. They could always change it but I think it was around the time Ful's name was found someone asked.

[Rena]

 

 

I guess Dramen isn't an elder god then

 

Well, Dramen really couldn't have been the name anyway, right? It would have had to have been something like "Dra" due to the 3 letter naming convention.

 

It is kind of funny that Michelle just went and revealed that, probably without realizing it wasn't revealed yet, since originally it was supposed to have been revealed by the sleeper.

 

Nothing says they have to have 1 syllable/3 letter names

 

Jas, Feh, Mah, Wen... and... DRAMEN!

 

Yeah.. not seeing it. Things can go by many names, Dramen being Bik is not yet an impossibility.

 

I think Dramen is more like Vorago. An embodiement of the Anima Mundi.

[helring]

 

 

 

I guess Dramen isn't an elder god then

 

Well, Dramen really couldn't have been the name anyway, right? It would have had to have been something like "Dra" due to the 3 letter naming convention.

 

It is kind of funny that Michelle just went and revealed that, probably without realizing it wasn't revealed yet, since originally it was supposed to have been revealed by the sleeper.

 

Nothing says they have to have 1 syllable/3 letter names

 

Jas, Feh, Mah, Wen... and... DRAMEN!

 

Yeah.. not seeing it. Things can go by many names, Dramen being Bik is not yet an impossibility.

 

I think Dramen is more like Vorago. An embodiement of the Anima Mundi.

 

 

Why do you keep saying Feh? Isn't it Ful?

[Rena]

 

 

 

 

I guess Dramen isn't an elder god then

 

Well, Dramen really couldn't have been the name anyway, right? It would have had to have been something like "Dra" due to the 3 letter naming convention.

 

It is kind of funny that Michelle just went and revealed that, probably without realizing it wasn't revealed yet, since originally it was supposed to have been revealed by the sleeper.

 

Nothing says they have to have 1 syllable/3 letter names

 

Jas, Feh, Mah, Wen... and... DRAMEN!

 

Yeah.. not seeing it. Things can go by many names, Dramen being Bik is not yet an impossibility.

 

I think Dramen is more like Vorago. An embodiement of the Anima Mundi.

 

 

Why do you keep saying Feh? Isn't it Ful?

 

Single syllables get confusing, you're right. It's Ful.

[strilmus]

 

i'm more concerned about this alleged "Great Revision" and this talk of "cycles". sounds like the universe is soon to be destroyed and reborn

 

 

summary: gielinor is the last in a long line of worlds created in the attempt to make a world with enough anima to successfully feed elder gods (after they failed with Mah's birth, they wanted to be SUPER SURE that the planet they were going to go with was the right one)

 

if the elder gods successfully hatch and eat gielinor (killing everybody on gielinor), then presumably the elder gods will cast everything back into the abyss (killing everybody who isn't strong enough to clutch to the wreckage and survive a plane shattering, like with what happened to the dragonkin's universe and race), making room to start the cycle all over again to create another world suitable for another elder god

 

also, like with the dragonkin, mahjarrat, ilujanka, and probably the other races at some point, without a further sustainable source of anima to fuel life once the current reserves are exhausted due to never actually being designed to support mortal life over the long term, everybody in the current universe will die anyway from entropy

 

[Sy_Accursed]

Tbf Dramen could still be linked to an Elder God - just we mortals named it ourselves and got it wrong.

 

Afterall there still is the fact one of them clear looks like the Dramen Tree Spirit, The Dramen Tree is unique and has some sort of power to it and it is convinently located right where Bik is sleeping.

[helring]

Tbf Dramen could still be linked to an Elder God - just we mortals named it ourselves and got it wrong.

 

Afterall there still is the fact one of them clear looks like the Dramen Tree Spirit, The Dramen Tree is unique and has some sort of power to it and it is convinently located right where Bik is sleeping.

 

Yea, I suppose it could be the creature that Bik speaks through kind of like the TokHaar were for Ful since Jagex said they need a translator to speak to mortals.

[Miss Lioness]

 

Tbf Dramen could still be linked to an Elder God - just we mortals named it ourselves and got it

wrong.

 

Afterall there still is the fact one of them clear looks like the Dramen Tree Spirit, The Dramen Tree is unique and has some sort of power to it and it is convinently located right where Bik is sleeping.

 

Yea, I suppose it could be the creature that Bik speaks through kind of like the TokHaar were for Ful since Jagex said they need a translator to speak to mortals.

 

 

It could be fun to revisit old bosses like the Dramen.

 

Just the old favourites, eh?

[Yoko Kurama]

I bet Zaros had Guthix killed because he was trying to get fresh with his gal Seren.

[HunterDexter]

Sliske says, truthfully, postquest that he acted on his own, when killing Guthix.

Zaros says in the quest he'd like to band up with Guthix, as their motives were alike.

[HunterDexter]

 

 

i'm more concerned about this alleged "Great Revision" and this talk of "cycles". sounds like the universe is soon to be destroyed and reborn

 

 

summary: gielinor is the last in a long line of worlds created in the attempt to make a world with enough anima to successfully feed elder gods (after they failed with Mah's birth, they wanted to be SUPER SURE that the planet they were going to go with was the right one)

 

if the elder gods successfully hatch and eat gielinor (killing everybody on gielinor), then presumably the elder gods will cast everything back into the abyss (killing everybody who isn't strong enough to clutch to the wreckage and survive a plane shattering, like with what happened to the dragonkin's universe and race), making room to start the cycle all over again to create another world suitable for another elder god

 

also, like with the dragonkin, mahjarrat, ilujanka, and probably the other races at some point, without a further sustainable source of anima to fuel life once the current reserves are exhausted due to never actually being designed to support mortal life over the long term, everybody in the current universe will die anyway from entropy

 

 

 

 

I too think that's the case, Gielinor would become the new Freneskae then from where the gods start to make new planes. The fact that Zaros is so urged to let his plan work, means to me the Revision is REALLY close. All the bickering with the other gods seems so trivial to me now.

 

[Urza285]

Also for those well versed in the dark arts of runescape wikia referencing...

 

Another hidden update I am quite joyous about:

 

When choosing an outfit in the wardrobe, the bar does not go to the top now. It stays in position.

[Everyonedies]

 

 

the rewards were some of the worst for a GM quest to date particularly of this standard

RuneTrack is telling me I walked away from that quest almost one million experience richer... Maybe it's just because I'm like the only non-maxed person left on the forum, but I'd say that puts it pretty far above most other GM quests in terms of rewards.

 

I do agree that it could have been a lot better in a number of ways (because even I'm getting tired of my rants), just that the rewards weren't one of the things that needed improvement.

 

I think he means more diversity and uniqueness, like Tormented Demons, interesting equipment, access to areas with good incentives to keep coming back, etc. rather than batches of XP and a now basically useless realm area. I am not maxed and I find getting a bunch of XP actually not all that satisfying. XP feels like a cop-out reward.

 

e: ninja'd

 

If i recall correctly Mod Mark said that the goal for XP to 99 would be about half from quests and half from training. So Xp being a big part of a quest reward fits into that.

[Ammako]

I can approve of that.

[brunokiller]

And let me guess, another half from sof xp?

[iBe]

 

divine fishing locations are neat. I'll be waiting on a decent video guide to try the new quest

 

 

It is super straight forward, so there is practically no need for a guide. The only thing that a guide would do is ruin the experience of the dialogue, which I'm assuming that you really don't care about.

 

I ended up using a guide but only to find the memories, the audio and dialogue was very enjoyable

[Yoko Kurama]

Apparently the Ritual of Rejuvenation actually was just a way to get energy/power for Mother Mah (a trick by Seren), which is why once on Gelinor and away from Mah, they have the energy for themselves. I had predicted something of this nature; I guess I was right. 

[HunterDexter]

The only thing I don't understand is: if it drawed energy only to Mah, where they all skeletonlike and very powerless on Freneskrae? Here on Gielinor they get their powers and skin back when they absorb the energy of a dead Mahjarrat, this couldn't have happened on Freneskrae. :s

[Rena]

The only thing I don't understand is: if it drawed energy only to Mah, where they all skeletonlike and very powerless on Freneskrae? Here on Gielinor they get their powers and skin back when they absorb the energy of a dead Mahjarrat, this couldn't have happened on Freneskrae. :s

The Ritual of Rejuvenation Rejuvanted Mah and was a plan devised by Seren. When Zaros had them come to Geilinor he had them continue the Ritual. With Mah not there to absorb the energy, the Mahjarrat gained the energy. Growing stronger with each sacrifice.

[Saradomin_Mage]

The only thing I don't understand is: if it drawed energy only to Mah, where they all skeletonlike and very powerless on Freneskrae? Here on Gielinor they get their powers and skin back when they absorb the energy of a dead Mahjarrat, this couldn't have happened on Freneskrae. :s

On Freneskae, the Ritual of Enervation gave them enough energy to be able to procreate. Chances are that drawing energy from Mah (whilst enervating her) was all they needed to keep themselves rejuvenated. They had no need to purposely seek energy on Freneskae to keep themselves rejuvenated, unlike on Gielinor where they have to perform the ritual. This might also explain why they can't procreate on Gielinor, because there isn't a large enough energy source for them to tap into to create another Mahjarrat.

[Rena]

 

The only thing I don't understand is: if it drawed energy only to Mah, where they all skeletonlike and very powerless on Freneskrae? Here on Gielinor they get their powers and skin back when they absorb the energy of a dead Mahjarrat, this couldn't have happened on Freneskrae. :s

On Freneskae, the Ritual of Enervation gave them enough energy to be able to procreate. Chances are that drawing energy from Mah (whilst enervating her) was all they needed to keep themselves rejuvenated. They had no need to purposely seek energy on Freneskae to keep themselves rejuvenated, unlike on Gielinor where they have to perform the ritual. This might also explain why they can't procreate on Gielinor, because there isn't a large enough energy source for them to tap into to create another Mahjarrat.

 

Or it is because there is only a single female remaining and she refuses to mate with anyone but Zamorak..... Can't exactly mate when there aren't any females to mate with.

[Sorator]

I didn't really like the way lore was introduced by presenting a massive interactive history book all at once (select topic...get lore answer...repeat), I would've preferred cutscenes extended overtime, or passive discovery, but I can't have it all :P

It would be a problem if this were a standard thing, but I think it made sense here. You're meeting a god face to face, one that no one except one or two of his most powerful followers has spoken to since before the God Wars; he has a dubious reputation and needs to convince you to aid him, so he says "Ask me anything."

 

It also serves as a lore-dump (like holy shit, I think this was the most new information in the history of Runescape questing, given that we knew almost nothing of the elder gods, or how Seren and Zaros were different from the young gods, or much of the origins of the Mahjarrat, and of course the Great Rivision as well). It'd take a looong time to trickle that information down the way they do with most things.

 

 

I enjoyed the quest, but as usual it was certainly not up to the GM standard, and probably a bit worse than TWW (which also arguably wasn't up to standard). A pity, considering how much hyped this was. There were a few details they could have fleshed out a bit more, the rewards were some of the worst for a GM quest to date particularly of this standard, some aspects were rushed and so on.

 

As I predicted, the god awful and annoying miniquest was longer than the GM quest - how sad.

 

Also, every time they hype up a GM quest, I keep thinking they will finally deliver us something like While Guthix Sleeps, but I am slowly coming to the realization that they don't have the ability to make something that epic again - a pity.

 

Also some of the lore felt less interesting than before. Whereas previously Zaros was a grey character, it's now been established that he's basically a very good and noble guy.  No plot twists. I always liked the dynamic between the younger gods (Guthix/Zammy/Sara) more than where this Elder God stuff seems to be heading. 

 

Sliske and Azzanadra have been reduced to cameos. If Sliske is so powerful, why wouldn't he just fight you? It seems silly. Did he want Zaros to return or not? He seemed to want to sabotage him, but then it turns out he's infuriated that Zaros excommunicated him. Also, my sense of Sliske as someone who is rash and reckless was confirmed when Zaros also assessed him as such. 

 

I'd give this quest a grade of 'B'. Good, and lots of lore, but nothing excellent or outstanding, and a lot of lackluster stuff.

Of course it was shorter than the miniquest - the miniquest was basically an additional training method for a skill with some lore attached.

 

Personally I loved the lore. Again, I wouldn't want dumps like this to happen often, but it was all very pertinent information (albeit heavily filtered through Zaros's eyes).

 

I don't think they've established that Zaros is a good and noble guy. For one, we only have his word that he wasn't outright lying during the questioning in the first place - he says he can't, but that could have been a lie, and then what? (Don't think that's the case, but it's possible.) Also, he's still clearly an arrogant bastard who has no qualms discarding mortals to achieve his goals (look at the nihil; there are hints that he was doing some pretty terrible things with aviansie, demons, vampyres, and icyenes in order to create them). He says he's learned from his past mistakes, but I'm not sure that he learned from them as much as he led us to believe. He's also incredibly bad at understanding the motivations and actions of mortals at times - that's how he got betrayed by Zamorak, and that's why it took so long for him to begin to deal with Sliske (and he's still not willing to finish that, either).

 

He may now have goals that wind up bettering everyone and possibly saving the universe, but he also wants to become an elder god and that's hardly self-sacrificing. He also has what may be an exceptionally skewed view of the elder gods, which may come back to bite him (and us). Why does he think it's even possible for him to become an elder god? He seems hung up on it being his birthright, but there's no evidence to suggest that's at all the case. Even if he succeeds, surely he will be the weakest of the lot (possibly excepting Mah); why will the others bother to listen to him? Couldn't they take it as an act of aggression and instead try and squash him? I don't think he's though all these things through sufficiently.

 

Azzanadra was never more than the most loyal servant of Zaros. He'll still be playing a major role in the events to come, and likely we'll still get information from Zaros through him while Zaros tries to remain on the down low.

 

Sliske is also still a major player in all of this - Mod Rowley mentioned that he'll probably be seen less in the next few quests, because he's gotten a massive amount of attention thus far and they want to focus on some other characters now, but he's definitely still going to be seen quite a bit in the grand scheme of things. Just look at what he started as a distraction, after all; he has to resolve that somehow eventually. I think he wanted Zaros to return while still furthering his own (Sliske's) ends, hoping to remain in Zaros's camp while increasing his own power and pursuing his own goals; Zaros excommunicating him puts a nix on all of that. Rowley also mentioned that Sliske is rather bipolar, which is why he responded so angrily at the time but seemed much calmer when you see him afterward in the Citadel.

 

Azzanadra and Sliske were "reduced to cameos" during this quest for good reason, though, if that's what you were complaining about. Their parts made perfect sense here.

 

In terms of quest rewards - we got an enormous amount of lore, both during and after the quest (you get new tidbits if you summon and speak with Zaros afterward; it's not just a repeat of the questioning from the quest); roughly 1mil experience; the pocket slot item - and that's a biggie, in my view; the ability to discard the ring of visibility, which is a godsend for casual ghost penguin hunters; two new cosmetics (though I agree they were rather meh); two new groups monsters, likely to be given improved and unique drops as well as being opt-in Slayer assignments; a miniquest of sorts in a new area (memoriam crystal hunting) as well as finding and planting the Measure in the existing world; and a new teleport for the sixth-age circuit. It's plenty for a GM quest, in my opinion - sure, it's not new god-tier equipment that will oust an existing piece as best-in-slot, but we can only get so much of that anyway. Also, this quest laid major backbone for future quests in the form of the World Gate, which is definitely going to see more use (and not necessarily just for to the Zaros/Great Revision storyline, either).

 

And can I talk some more about how much lore there was? This quest completely restructured how we view deities, the origins of the universe, the arrangement of the planes/worlds, and the origins of the different races now on Gielinor - we had some ideas of these things previously, but not this much.

 

 

I'm interested to see more of Seren's side of things, as well as learn more about just what happened to her after she spent time with the elves and Guthix. I'm also curious to learn more of Icthlarin's origins and where the desert pantheon lies in all of this, as well as if Marimbo and Brassica Prime have any significant role to play here (I think not, but who knows). I also really wonder what the Guardians of Guthix have to say about the events of the quest; I'd love to go tell Death that Zaros is back and we're all gonna die. I also expect Mah will not simply lay back down and go into another coma; she's gonna cause us some problems, and she may wind up waking the other elder gods on her own.