Tip.It Times Presents: An Ethical Dilemma

[Muppetman99]

As we all know, the Runescape community is comprised of people from all walks of life, including child and adults alike, all creeds, ethnicities, occupations, socialties, religion and gender. This unique diversity also stands for the Tip.it community, as a small part of the vast collective of the Internet. I myself, am a 34 year old male American. My occupation is as an attorney and legal advisor specializing in multimedia law, working for the firm Donnelley, Donnelley, & Rosenberg based outside Los Angeles, California. I am one of many addicts to Runescape, striving to play whenever possible.

 

 

 

I have read the article which was posted on March 10th. As with any editorial published, whether in a newspaper, book, broadcasted, or posted on an Internet sight, controversy is the main attraction. In any public clashing of opinions, there will always be a far right view as well as a balance to the left. However, it is up to the reader to decide for themselves the view of which they choose. Whether it may be in agreeance or disapproval, an idea not expressed within an article or even the option to read it at all, they have a right to choose and form their own opinions freely without legal ramifications.

 

 

 

This idea rings true for participators throughout the media field. reporters, writers, etc. have the duty to report with integrity, honesty, and virtue when reporting factual information. Any stray from this without the luxury of evidence, can be misconstrued as defamation and slander in a court of law. However, any articles, editorials, public speeches, revisions and Internet publications all fall under the protection of Freedom of Speech & Press as public opinion and legally carry an "assumed disclaimer," basically stating that the expressed views are merely opinion and should not be taken as truth or fact.

 

 

 

Tip.It had every legal right to post AND MAINTAIN this editorial on their page. Under international free speech laws over the Internet, Tip.It is free to express their opinions and the opinions of users throughout the Internet community, using their website as the medium. This also falls under the Universal Declaration Of Human Rights laws, these of which are extraordinarily close to the 1st amendment rights in the U.S. Constitution and carry the same rights for everyone. Tip.It is protected and free to express any opinions they feel fit to publish, just as any website is free to speak out against anyone they choose, including but not limited to, political leaders, corporations, public figureheads, etc.. the list goes on. This only becomes compromised when the expressed opinion is maliciously intended to be passed of as factual and truth, meaning the writer deliberately went out of their way to create fake documents, quotes, sources etc, for the mere purpose to slander, which even in itself is incredibly hard to prove.

 

 

 

I feel that Tip.It was duped and scared off by the threat suit. I say "duped" only because the "offended parties" used an empty threat against this website due to an opinion the "parties" felt played against them. It is impossible for the "offended parties" to pursue any legal action against Tip.It because they CAN'T! It is a public opinion article, therefore your rights are protected, as I mentioned earlier. This is why George Bush is unable to sue the media on their comments about him. This is why Michael Jackson cannot sue late night talk show hosts for wise cracks and publicly stating their opinion through humor. This is why Oprah Winfrey can't sue MAD Magazine because it says she was mistaken as a grazing cow. The list goes on and on.

 

 

 

I deal with this stuff not nearly everyday, but pretty often! We as people are free to our opinions any day of the week, including Internet opinion poles, so I laughed a little bit when the retraction article was sent out stating that Andrew of Jagex was going to pursue legal actions, when the fact of the matter is, his hands are tied and he can legally do NOTHING. Just as Andrew and Jagex have the legal right to ban anyone they want, control and edit the Runescape forums as they see fit, create characters as they see fit. If they wanted to create an article on their website that they would like to see Tip.It shutdown because they feel that they are damaging to the integrity of Runescape, then they can print it. It's their opinion and there would be nothing that Tip. It could do about it to overturn it.

 

 

 

My point of this lengthy comment was to assure everyone that we all have a right to our opinions and no one can take that away from you. Tip.It has the right and obligation, I feel, to express itself, and by no means, was anything "illegally" posted. Tip.It cannot be sued for anything! Yes, someone got very upset about the statements, and in the heat of anger, probably said "I'll sue you if it's not taken down" but that person, nor any establishment, no matter how big or small, has the legal right to sue. If the "offended parties" can't deal with public opinion, then that's their problem. They have to learn to move on and disregard certain things. Along the way, someone is always going to be upset or disapprove of any article posted that does not agree with their own opinions. Of course! You can't please everyone. This strikes up the opportunity of debates. Without debate, where would we be??? Thank you all for listening.!

[ReneDestroy]

Hmm wish I'd read that article but I was on vacation.

[tewas]

great article. it will explain everyone, who's not familiar with freedom of speech, why such articles like past one can be posted :)

 

 

 

thanks kiara

[vladski]

Well I'm still under assumption that the only REAL reason behind the removal of the article was definitely threat of legal action and nothing more.

 

 

 

My opinion is that, the article was well written, clearly outlining the problems faced by some RS players, and I failed to see how it was biased in any favour. It was merely stating the TRUTH.

 

 

 

If you are a long term player, you may have already noticed changes in rules on the RS Rants forums for example. It is reaching a point where we can no longer debate on anything useful, something which affects most of the RS players. Any intelligent and useful debates are automatically locked by the moderators because it is an offence to complain about Jagex.

 

 

 

I am not going to go into a great detail to explain, I hope I don't have to. But it seems apparent to me that Jagex are attempting to enforce ''Hitler'' style regime, where real issues affecting many players can no longer be discussed publicly. I think that it is something which will come to haunt them some day, and lose them a lot of members in the long run.

 

 

 

All of us enjoy this game, and I'm sure when I say it, that it's not in our interests to damage Jagex's reputation. However, it seems that we are no longer in a position where we can voice our opinions freely, something which might actually help to improve gameplay.

[the_real_xiphos]

I love you Muppetman.

 

 

 

You really sum up everything, its just too bad that most people wont take the time to read your well spoken post.

 

 

 

And the crack I made about Runescape loving lawyers seems to have snuck up behind me. (I thought all the "good" players were gone) Its nice to have you on the forums, and I hope to see you in-game soon. The Runescape community is fading, people like you truly make it stronger.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for your much needed and supported Post.

[Adam007]

It seems that most people here are only looking at it from one perspective. That being that it isn't lawsuitable and it shouldn't have been taken down. That really isn't the issue, whether it was kept or not. The issue is that the article relied on only two minute details of banning errors to generalize in making jagex look like some terrible tyrant corporation. Forget about the whole lawsuit thing. The issue is that the article was heavily biased, and didn't give jagex's side a fair enough showing. When a writer doesn't give both sides of a case, it's persuasion. This article shouldn't have been made for the sole purpose of persuading people to be anti-jagex.

[jonno53]

i support tip.its choice in removing the article, i know it may be a bit odd supporting controversy earlier, but there is a limit and if people complain there can be serious consequenses:

 

i dont know if you all remember not long ago when a french paper showed some pics mocking a religion. there were huge [wagon] riots and many were killed - over a few cartoons

 

 

 

sorry if this is spam, but woah those comments on page two are long!

[Muppetman99]

Yes...but the point is that it's an opinionated article and should be out there just like any other, regardless if it's biased towards any side.. It's an opinion, not fact, and it's the readers choice as to how they will injest its meaning. The writer stated their opinion as they felt not to please anyone, not to gain a mob against a certian "tyrannic" company, but soley as the expression of what they felt wholeheartedly. The power of persuasion only exists it you take someones opinion to heart.

[Omali]

While there's nothing I can say to make Tip.It change their minds, I would appreciate it if someone (who currently has the article) would send the article in question to me (either through email or PM)

 

 

 

And for the wary, I have no intention on placing this back on the internet.

[2kwooada]

Whoever said I loved Runescape, I agreed with the foremost mentioned article. All I'm saying is that Andrew is human like us all, he's trying to make the game more enjoyable and all you can do is shun him xiphos. And if you don't like Runescape, what are you doing playing it???

 

I supose I got to tied up with the legal action being threatened, I agree with Adam. Although it is against my opinion, the article was not fair to Jadex, showing how the bannings helped etc. 1 out of many bannings were shown, the mistakes. I supose my reading of the article and my like for Tip.it blinded me to the obvious points, the article wasn't balanced fairly, creating a lot of 'anti-jadex' people, this can be seen as delibrate drawing away of people and customers, this can actually be breaking the law if deemmed severe enough, hence the legal action.

 

 

 

"I once was blind, but now I see" Amazing Grace

[Rubinio]

Well at least its now clear why the previous article was removed. Would it have helped when there had been said this artikel is just ONE opinion ?

[cubed_boid]

Well, it seems that an opinion expressed and as I am sure, agreed with by many, has got us all into... well perhaps Jagex's 'bad list'?

 

 

 

I'm not here to 'pick fights', 'be anti-Jagex' or whatever it is you feel like saying. I just find it unfair that they don't want to hear our opinions. I, myself, was quite worried about the whole Law Suit, but still it left me wandering - Can Jagex not face up to their actions? (Sorry mods I know you'll probably say i shouldn't say that).

 

 

 

Is it true, that poor Andrew + the crew have efficiently snapped under the pressure and are slightly blind to what they are causing. Yes, they have got to maintain and run a huge, very popular and fun MMORPG everday. Yes, it's true that they try their very best to please the whole community. Yes, they are always finding ways to make more money. But truely, are they going about this the right way? I'm not one for making suggestions here, hell, I know I can't do any better than them, but I for one can see several flaws in their systems. We can't expect Jagex to whip new tricks, rules or effective systems out of their butt's everyday, but maybe they should think a little into the consequences.

 

 

 

I am sidetracking alot, just stating alot of theories/questions for an open ended discussion.

 

 

 

At the end of the day, what is done is done. Tip.It made a wise move to put that article on their site. It may open up Jagex's mind a little, hopefully. Only time can tell. :wall: Why do all the good things end up bringing so much controversy? Human nature I believe.

 

Keep these words in mind - Once you're at the top, you want more and you won't stop until you get it.

 

 

 

I'm going to leave this thread here because I know the Average Joe Tip.It'er won't have read past the 2nd paragraph :lol:

[Beerman1978]

Well, whatever. What was said was said and it can't be changed. I think that if people took the article the wrong way then that's their problem. It almost feels like that people think every article should be the middle of the road. To me, that's dangerous. If you cant freely express yourself for fear of what other people think, then you shouldnt express yourself at all. I thought the article was excellent. A breath of fresh air if you will. Whether the author was right or wrong to say what they did, who cares really. I took away from it what I wanted and with my own thoughts, as someone else took away something different. The author had every right to print what they felt was worthy of comment and I kind of feel slighted that Tip.It removed it. It almost feels as though any comments that are seen as "biased" will be removed because it doesnt satify the other sides opinions. Well...I think that's too bad. If something is written and people dont like it, then click the little red "X" up in the right-hand corner of your screen, and it's all over. Simple as that.

 

 

 

In another mysterious point.....I wonder why Andrew is so paranoid about what other peoples opinions are on a silly article. Maybe he's worried about losing business or what not, but I'm sure he has nothing to worry about since there are well over a million players. I mean....Does he really care if about 100 people out of 1,000,000 + were anti-Jagex after the article??? I think he has much better things to worry about rather than playing spy games on runescape fansites. Perhaps he should fight off the bigger battles than something this tiny. I just think it's hillarious that Andrew seems to be so affected by meaningless internet blogging.

[St_Gladius]

I actully liked that article you should be able to write stuff like that without jagex staff going crazy and threatining you...

[goosey134]

did he truely threaten tip.it andrew could've shot the intire jagex staff in the foot with that one move .andrew is taken the wrong direction for this ,they should've learned from the article but instead they took the action the article was all about,and the article was right about the direction they were taking ,my friend recently got perm. banned for asking my other friend how hard his password was after he got hacked (the friend he asked got hacked)

[agamemnus]

IF anything, it is the banned players who should sue Jagex.

 

 

 

Also, it's ridiculous and pointless to argue about some supposedly biased or non biased article when most of us haven't even read it. How are we supposed to judge? I'd like to read it and judge for myself.

[Golvellius]

The last article was lible slander about Jagex's Banning Policy as a whole, not an editorial piece on the unfairness of so and so's ban.

 

What does this one do besides prove that you watch too much "Law & Order" type tv shows?

 

 

 

Also, why care who gets banned, most people here are proud of their bans and wear them like badges on their sigs.

 

With the new 100th quest to write about, why rehash old garbage?

[War_Implored]

They should have kept the article up..

[Himmler_rfss]

nice to see tip it roll over faster than the french

[vladski]

Some nice replies on this thread. But one thing bugs me really bad....

 

 

 

The threat of legal action against Tip It, even though I do not wish to make this a primary issue for this debate, seem kinda strange to me.

 

 

 

Whether Andrew acted on impulse or not, did he really think that by successfully removing this article through a threat of legal action, he will actually make people forget about the whole thing??

 

 

 

Please don't misunderstand me, I do not wish wish to make the threat of legal action the entire focus of this debate. But honestly now, did he really think that it will make the entire focus of this topic will just wanish all of a sudden??

 

 

 

If anything he added fuel to the fire, to a topic which was already hotly bebated on these forums and in game quite consistently. I'm not really sure if his actions resulted in a positive outcome what so ever. If anything he simply ignited the desire to debate this further. I am for one very curious what his motivations were behind his decision to resort to such drastic measures.

[Omali]

IF anything, it is the banned players who should sue Jagex.

 

 

 

Also, it's ridiculous and pointless to argue about some supposedly biased or non biased article when most of us haven't even read it. How are we supposed to judge? I'd like to read it and judge for myself.

 

 

 

as would I

[TrueInuyasha]

This article does clear up a few things, but ignores the issue here as a whole.

 

 

 

"Freedom of the Press" ends where it infringes upon an individuals rights, in this case, directly slandering Jagex in the last article. There is no difference between slandering a company, Jagex, or slandering a specific group of people (ethinic or religious minorities for example). Either should not be published.

 

 

 

he author, complaining about Bias, was Quite Clearly Biased in that particular article, as well as pulling several no-nos of journialism (mentioning specific cases would be one).

 

 

 

Its a great piece of Damage control by tip.it, but in the future, I do hope they are a little more selective about what is posted, taking into account the fair and balanced viewpoint that is necessesary for "freedom of the press"

 

 

 

P.S. - To everyone who says Tip.it did the wrong thing and shouldve fought, use your brains. A multi-million dollar company VS a couple of webmasters who run a fansite in spare time.. the outcome would not be a pretty sight. Heck, none of you know even what was said between Andrew and Tip.it. You would have done the exact same thing in this position, but hey, its easy to be brave and scream "fight the power" from the sidelines right???

[webgoof]

while i do think it odd and an overreaction that Jagex would threaten a lawsuit, I do see the sense of pulling the article.

 

 

 

At first when it got pulled, I figured that those who were mentioned, but not named threw a fit or something. When I read the new article, I thought Tip.It should have left the old one...but after reading the comments, I do agree that though Jagex was probably overreacting, as a simple email, phone call, or whatever method of communication they use, nicely asking for it to be removed because of its slanderous qualities would have sufficed methinks. however I do see now that it was stretching limited facts qute a bit farther than proper.

 

 

 

In my opinion, they should so a whole sweeping ban of "bad names" but offer to have the names changed...they could at least worked with the banned person to re-create the banned character's stats and items on a new character with an acceptable name.

[Dr_Elephant]

There have been many spirited discussions on our forums about the reasons for its removal, and many of you have assumed that it must be because Jagex asked us to. I can assure you that this is not the case. Yes, Andrew Gower did contact us about the article, yes, legal action was threatened, yes, he was angry. Very angry. But is this the reason the article was removed from the site? No.

 

 

 

Am I the only one that saw this part of Kiara Kat's article?

[RedRuby]

 

 

 

:lol:

 

 

 

Good article. I don't agree with the whole "how wud u fel if u got ur stuf dised lol" arguement. When you are running a BUISNESS(Yes, Jagex is a buisness. Jagex runs Runescape. They do not work on runescape because they have fun, they work on it for money) you have to expect criticism.

 

 

 

Big Brother is watching YOU.