Immigration

[Giordano]

i think it should be implemented.. why...

 

because im racist, and i dont like mexicans around here stealing jobs and ruining our community..

 

 

 

Say that in Southern California and you'll be dead faster than a heartrate.

 

 

 

US will NEVER patrol the Canadian border, only Mexico. That's how 9/11 occured. Came in from the north. (not offending Canadians)

[rocketman089]

i think it should be implemented.. why...

 

because im racist, and i dont like mexicans around here stealing jobs and ruining our community..

 

 

 

Say that in Southern California and you'll be dead faster than a heartrate.

 

 

 

US will NEVER patrol the Canadian border, only Mexico. That's how 9/11 occured. Came in from the north. (not offending Canadians)

 

 

 

As far as I know, Canada wasn't involved a bit in that shpeil. The terrorists involved were members of al-Qaeda, from various middle eastern nations. The planes took off from various airports on the east coast of the US, not Canada.

[bjbj1991]

Undocumented immigrants enter the country illegally because they cannot financially afford and/or are not educationally qualified to register for US work/extended stay/education programs.

 

 

 

They are not "living on" our taxes.

 

 

 

They all pay sales taxes, property taxes (directly or through landlords), gasoline taxes, and so on.

 

 

 

Medicare, social security, health insurance, etc. are not open to illegal immigrants.

 

 

 

There are, obviously, more legal immigrants in America than illegal immigrants (you know that, don't you?). The majority of the "low wage job-takers" have legal visas/stay permits. Do you want them out too?

 

 

 

I don't know why you people keep complaining about "free emergency room visits." There is no such thing as a "free visit" to the hospital for anyone, let alone an illegal immigrant.

 

I completly disagree with your statment. It is easy to live off the system, I know people that do it. Have a kid, dont know who's the dady so lets pay you the goverment says. More than one kid you say? Lets give you more!

 

 

 

When the government gives money its bad so - when the imerfent earns money its good +.

F=free money

E=earned money

N=economy

-F+E=N usualy when it comes to ilegal imigrents F>E

 

 

 

In order for the ilegal imigrents to help the economy they must give more money to it than they take. If your on welfare that ant gona happen because if you reach the point that you break even they cut you off the system.

 

 

 

ilegal immrigrent = idiot = bad job = low wages = welfare = bad for economy = more taxes = me hate em. Or ilegal immrigrent = bad guy = bad.

[bearofthunder]

 

I completly disagree with your statment. It is easy to live off the system, I know people that do it. Have a kid, dont know who's the dady so lets pay you the goverment says. More than one kid you say? Lets give you more!

 

 

 

When the government gives money its bad so - when the imerfent earns money its good +.

F=free money

E=earned money

N=economy

-F+E=N usualy when it comes to ilegal imigrents F>E

 

 

 

In order for the ilegal imigrents to help the economy they must give more money to it than they take. If your on welfare that ant gona happen because if you reach the point that you break even they cut you off the system.

 

 

 

ilegal immrigrent = idiot = bad job = low wages = welfare = bad for economy = more taxes = me hate em. Or ilegal immrigrent = bad guy = bad.

 

 

 

The people you know are not illegal immigrants. They are unemployed Americans. "Living off the system" requires a valid social security number.

 

 

 

Here are the requirements for welfare in Manchester, New Hampshire:

 

 

* Proof of Identification for all household members, such as picture ID, driverÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s license and birth certificate.

 

 

 

 

 

* Social Security numbers for all household members.

 

 

 

 

 

* Proof of income/benefits from any source for all household members, such as TANF, food stamps, child support, Social Security (SSI/SSD/Retirement), unemployment compensation, WorkersÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢ Compensation, VA, and/or current pay stubs for the past 4 weeks.

 

 

 

 

 

* Proof of Current Tax Return.

 

 

 

 

 

* Proof of Residency such as: current rent receipts, copy of rental agreement or lease, statement from person with whom you are residing.

 

 

 

 

 

* Proof of Expenses such as ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ãâ rent, utilities, child care, medical or any other receipts you have for the household.

 

 

 

 

 

* Proof of Cash Resources for all household members such as: savings passbooks, current checking or savings account statement from your bank or credit union, cash on hand.

 

 

 

 

 

* Proof of Personal or Real Estate Property such as: vehicle or mobile home.

 

 

 

 

 

* DoctorÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s Statement is necessary if anyone in the household is unable to work. This statement must include the nature and extent of the disability, as well as any work limitations.

 

 

 

 

 

* Proof of any programs you have applied for such as: APTD (State Disability), TANF, food stamps, Medicaid, Social Security (SSI/SSD/Retirement) Medicare, VA benefits, Fuel Assistance/W.I.C., unemployment compensation, Workers Compensation.

 

 

 

 

http://www.manchesternh.gov/CityGov/Welfare/Apply.html

 

 

 

Illegal immigrants receive nothing from us.

[Mercifull]

Massive penalties for hiring illegal immigrants or people without a work permit (ie student visa) and fast exporting of people back home. None of this waiting around for months while the people organise moving to some other part of the country where the govt loses track of them and has to find them again.

 

 

 

Note that none of my opinions on illegal immigrants relate to legal immigrants and asylum seekers, they are fine and bring more money into the GDP of the UK than they take out.

[jak722]

Canada is open for immigration atm.

 

 

 

And as far as I know, they're doing a very good job at deporting illegal immigrants that sometimes, I find it sad... :(

 

 

 

 

 

Now about immigrants stealing jobs...

 

 

 

Yes, immigrants do need jobs too.

 

 

 

Most immigrants settle in urban areas, but hardly in rural areas unless its manual labour.

 

 

 

 

 

But most jobs they take are factory jobs or other typs of manual labor that most people wouldn't do voluntarily.

 

 

 

If people dont apply for them, then why not hire immigrants who would be willing to do the work?

 

 

 

 

 

I dont support illegal immigration, but im sure most of you will agree that immigrants don't really have much choice once they land in a new country...

[leet_man69]

More immigration = more competition for jobs = less employment for people who are useless. But i guess they are only tightening immigration so they don't get more muslims that might turn out to be 'sleepers' or something.

[pianofrieak2]

Well, there have been a lot of responses on this topic.

 

 

 

I believe that the system needs to be reformed.

 

1. We have a system of getting people to be legal immigrants. Use it!

 

2. If it's bad...that's fine. Revise it. THEN use it!

 

3. If people don't want to respect our system, I say "forget you". Get out.

 

4. If you allow others to bypass our system, we should have harsh penalties and THEN deport the illegals.

 

 

 

That's just what I say. :) (in my merciful self of course! :wink:)

[bearofthunder]

Well, there have been a lot of responses on this topic.

 

 

 

I believe that the system needs to be reformed.

 

1. We have a system of getting people to be legal immigrants. Use it!

 

2. If it's bad...that's fine. Revise it. THEN use it!

 

3. If people don't want to respect our system, I say "forget you". Get out.

 

4. If you allow others to bypass our system, we should have harsh penalties and THEN deport the illegals.

 

 

 

That's just what I say. :) (in my merciful self of course! :wink:)

 

 

 

No one wants to bypass the system. There are no benefits at all to being an illegal immigrant. So why do people still do it? Because the official system is selective and expensive. To me, someone who comes to America knowing they're going to be called "illegal" and "second class" yet still stay to tough it out while facing indifference, even criticism, from the government displays more American spirit than the 10 million unemployed American citizens who sit on their couches and get to leach from welfare and medicare just because they have a social security number.

[Guest GhostRanger]

Well, there have been a lot of responses on this topic.

 

 

 

I believe that the system needs to be reformed.

 

1. We have a system of getting people to be legal immigrants. Use it!

 

2. If it's bad...that's fine. Revise it. THEN use it!

 

3. If people don't want to respect our system, I say "forget you". Get out.

 

4. If you allow others to bypass our system, we should have harsh penalties and THEN deport the illegals.

 

 

 

That's just what I say. :) (in my merciful self of course! :wink:)

 

 

 

No one wants to bypass the system. There are no benefits at all to being an illegal immigrant. So why do people still do it? Because the official system is selective and expensive. To me, someone who comes to America knowing they're going to be called "illegal" and "second class" yet still stay to tough it out while facing indifference, even criticism, from the government displays more American spirit than the 10 million unemployed American citizens who sit on their couches and get to leach from welfare and medicare just because they have a social security number.

 

 

 

Translation: Breaking laws and bypassing American policies shows more of the American spirit than anything else!

 

 

 

Seriously...what you said was utter nonsense.

[MyPurpleCrayon]

There are no benefits at all to being an illegal immigrant.

 

You know personally eh?

 

 

 

And yes there are, or else they wouldn't do it. They get higher paying jobs than they would back at home, and they can send money to their family. Plus they don't have to pay taxes.

 

 

 

Just to name a few.

[bearofthunder]

There are no benefits at all to being an illegal immigrant.

 

You know personally eh?

 

 

 

 

I know illegal immigrants personally. I myself am a legal immigrant, and the process to get here and stay here is at times so nervewracking and degrading that I've thought about giving up countless of times. However, I've stuck with it because I believe in that bronze plaque at the base of the Statue of Liberty. Now imagine illegal immigrants, people who didn't even have the privilege and luck of having their foot in the door like I did.

 

 

 

 

And yes there are, or else they wouldn't do it. They get higher paying jobs than they would back at home, and they can send money to their family. Plus they don't have to pay taxes.

 

 

 

You just don't understand. They don't want to be illegal. Being illegal means they are eternally confined to underground jobs and second-class status.

 

 

 

You claim, supposedly, that illegal immigrants go through all that trouble of sneaking across borders because:

 

 

 

1. higher paying jobs

 

2. send money back to family

 

3. no taxes

 

 

 

However, these exact same things apply to legal immigrants (who do not pay taxes until they receive green cards). In fact, if they were legal immigrants, they would be able to have even higher paying jobs and even more money to send home to their families.

 

 

 

So why do they still remain illegal?

 

 

 

Because, as I keep emphasizing, these people don't have the money and education to qualify them for programs to become legal residents. In order to qualify for consideration for a green card (which is, in itself, an 8-10 year wait), they have to stay in America for a certain number of years. But to stay in America, they need to repeatedly renew their permit, and that means they need to either

 

 

 

1) have a special skill (usually biotechnology and the like) that the company they are employed by claims is valuable in the United States.

 

 

 

or

 

 

 

2) proof that they are still enrolled in a college or graduate school.

 

 

 

Even then, many people in option #2 do not receive extended visas.

 

 

 

As you can see, many people who want to become Americans do not have the money or education for either of those requirements, so although the immigration program is open to everyone, it is really only open to a select group of foreigners.

[Guest GhostRanger]

There are no benefits at all to being an illegal immigrant.

 

You know personally eh?

 

 

 

 

I know illegal immigrants personally. I myself am a legal immigrant, and the process to get here and stay here is at times so nervewracking and degrading that I've thought about giving up countless of times. However, I've stuck with it because I believe in that bronze plaque at the base of the Statue of Liberty. Now imagine illegal immigrants, people who didn't even have the privilege and luck of having their foot in the door like I did.

 

 

 

Imagine being a felon on the run from the police. They broke the law and now now one will let them stay in their hotels and if they stay at home they will be arrested. They can't get real work because they broke the law and will get turned in if they try to apply. Don't you feel sorry for them? Oh wait - no, because they broke the law. So why would an illegal immigrant be anything different?

 

 

 

You just don't understand. They don't want to be illegal. Being illegal means they are eternally confined to underground jobs and second-class status.

 

 

 

They shouldn't be here. Period. If they don't want to be illegal then why did they break the law? They CHOSE to do that.

 

 

 

You claim, supposedly, that illegal immigrants go through all that trouble of sneaking across borders because:

 

 

 

1. higher paying jobs

 

2. send money back to family

 

3. no taxes

 

 

 

However, these exact same things apply to legal immigrants (who do not pay taxes until they receive green cards). In fact, if they were legal immigrants, they would be able to have even higher paying jobs and even more money to send home to their families.

 

 

 

So why do they still remain illegal?

 

 

 

Because, as I keep emphasizing, these people don't have the money and education to qualify them for programs to become legal residents. In order to qualify for consideration for a green card (which is, in itself, an 8-10 year wait), they have to stay in America for a certain number of years. But to stay in America, they need to repeatedly renew their permit, and that means they need to either

 

 

 

1) have a special skill (usually biotechnology and the like) that the company they are employed by claims is valuable in the United States.

 

 

 

or

 

 

 

2) proof that they are still enrolled in a college or graduate school.

 

 

 

Even then, many people in option #2 do not receive extended visas.

 

 

 

As you can see, many people who want to become Americans do not have the money or education for either of those requirements, so although the immigration program is open to everyone, it is really only open to a select group of foreigners.

 

 

 

Let me repeat. These people are breaking the law by being here. I don't know what you think the word "illegal" means in the phrase "illegal immigrant" but it means they're breaking the law. Do you know what happens to people who break the law? They sure don't get (or deserve) pity.

[MyPurpleCrayon]

You just don't understand. They don't want to be illegal. Being illegal means they are eternally confined to underground jobs and second-class status.

 

Who said that they wanted to be illegal?

 

You claim, supposedly, that illegal immigrants go through all that trouble of sneaking across borders because:

 

No... I don't... I said these are benefits of it.

 

 

 

I don't understand why you took the time to type the rest of this.

[bearofthunder]

 

Imagine being a felon on the run from the police. They broke the law and now now one will let them stay in their hotels and if they stay at home they will be arrested. They can't get real work because they broke the law and will get turned in if they try to apply. Don't you feel sorry for them? Oh wait - no, because they broke the law. So why would an illegal immigrant be anything different? They shouldn't be here. Period. If they don't want to be illegal then why did they break the law? They CHOSE to do that.

 

 

 

 

The felon could have bought whatever he stole or sued whoever he killed. He committed a crime because he desired to. An illegal immigrant, on the other hand, had no other choice in their attempts to come to this country.

 

 

 

They were not given the two options of either filling out paperwork or sneaking onto the back of a truck. Obviously, if that had been the case, every undocumented worker in America would have chose to fill out the paperwork. Instead, they were told that only certain people get to fill out the paperwork.

 

 

 

So here are their two options:

 

 

 

1. Sneak onto the back of a truck

 

or

 

2. Continue to live on 20 pesos a day as laborers who did not study past elementary school and watch their children and their children's children do the same.

 

 

 

Let me repeat. These people are breaking the law by being here. I don't know what you think the word "illegal" means in the phrase "illegal immigrant" but it means they're breaking the law. Do you know what happens to people who break the law? They sure don't get (or deserve) pity.

 

 

 

The law needs to be altered, and people who are punished by an unjust law deserve all the pity in the world.

[Guest GhostRanger]

The felon could have bought whatever he stole or sued whoever he killed. He committed a crime because he desired to. An illegal immigrant, on the other hand, had no other choice in their attempts to come to this country.

 

 

 

Umm...

 

 

 

1) The felon couldn't buy it if he didn't have money

 

 

 

2) The felon couldn't sue the person if there was no reason too

 

 

 

3) You are spinning this way too much. They had no other choice to get in our country. Solution. DON'T COME IN OUR COUNTRY.

 

 

 

They were not given the two options of either filling out paperwork or sneaking onto the back of a truck. Obviously, if that had been the case, every undocumented worker in America would have chose to fill out the paperwork. Instead, they were told that only certain people get to fill out the paperwork.

 

 

 

So here are their two options:

 

 

 

1. Sneak onto the back of a truck

 

or

 

2. Continue to live on 20 pesos a day as laborers who did not study past elementary school and watch their children and their children's children do the same.

 

 

 

Option one is illegal, option two isn't. Go with option two or pay the price.

 

 

 

The law needs to be altered, and people who are punished by an unjust law deserve all the pity in the world.

 

 

 

Explain how its unjust. America is OUR country and is not big enough to hold unlimited amounts of people just because our country has a better economy.

[bearofthunder]

 

 

 

Umm...

 

 

 

1) The felon couldn't buy it if he didn't have money

 

 

 

2) The felon couldn't sue the person if there was no reason too

 

 

 

3) You are spinning this way too much. They had no other choice to get in our country. Solution. DON'T COME IN OUR COUNTRY.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The felon could have saved up money to buy whatever he stole, but it is impossible for someone who resorted to illegal immigration to become qualified for immigration approval because figuratively and, well, literally, there is no "money" to be earned.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So here are their two options:

 

 

 

1. Sneak onto the back of a truck

 

or

 

2. Continue to live on 20 pesos a day as laborers who did not study past elementary school and watch their children and their children's children do the same.

 

 

 

Option one is illegal, option two isn't. Go with option two or pay the price.

 

 

 

If you were in that situation, would you suck it up and "pay the price?" The place where you were born was not something you chose and fought for, so it should not give you a sense of superiority or ownership. In my opinion, everyone deserves a chance to search for greater happiness.

 

 

 

Explain how its unjust. America is OUR country and is not big enough to hold unlimited amounts of people just because our country has a better economy.

 

 

 

The Western Europeans said that to the Eastern Europeans, and they in turn said it to the Asians. The fact is that every new wave of immigrants to America has caused the older waves to balk, yet this country was and continues to be shaped by people who come from other places. It is ridiculous to think of immigration as an unlimited amount of people pouring into the US. The same claim was made each time a new cultural group had an influx into America.

[Guest GhostRanger]

The felon could have saved up money to buy whatever he stole, but it is impossible for someone who resorted to illegal immigration to become qualified for immigration approval because figuratively and, well, literally, there is no "money" to be earned.

 

 

 

That only addressed the first point I brought up. You still have yet to address the fact that the illegal immigrant could stay in their own country.

 

 

 

 

If you were in that situation, would you suck it up and "pay the price?" The place where you were born was not something you chose and fought for, so it should not give you a sense of superiority or ownership. In my opinion, everyone deserves a chance to search for greater happiness.

 

 

 

I wouldn't break the law. I don't break laws. And I certainly am not going to travel to another country, take advantage of its economy, and have NO RESPECT for the laws it has.

 

 

 

The Western Europeans said that to the Eastern Europeans, and they in turn said it to the Asians. The fact is that every new wave of immigrants to America has caused the older waves to balk, yet this country was and continues to be shaped by people who come from other places. It is ridiculous to think of immigration as an unlimited amount of people pouring into the US. The same claim was made each time a new cultural group had an influx into America.

 

 

 

Its shaped by people who come to our country legally. If our Mexican border was open, it would be unlimited. And I agree that the same claim can be made about every new cultural group that had an influx to the rest - THAT IS WHY WE REGULATED IT. Did you forget that part?

[bjbj1991]

I think that this topic is becoming poluted with the idea that leagal and ilegal are the same thing.

 

 

 

Ilegal-they are not supost to be here because they were unable to receve ether citizenship or a vista.

 

 

 

Legal-they were alowed into the country legaly, it could be for academic, financhial, government, medical, or a huge list of other reasions.

 

 

 

Legal immrigration does not cause major problems because even if a small percentage of the population does not get a job the government can regulate it preventing a massive problem. Ilegal immrigration however can not be regulated so there is a much higher chance of a massive economic problem.

[bearofthunder]

 

 

 

I wouldn't break the law. I don't break laws. And I certainly am not going to travel to another country, take advantage of its economy, and have NO RESPECT for the laws it has.

 

 

 

You're probably more scrupulous than I am in that regard. I would definitely go to another country if I was in that situation. However, I don't think they are taking advantage of the economy. After all, they are confined to working in underground jobs.

 

 

 

 

Its shaped by people who come to our country legally. If our Mexican border was open, it would be unlimited. And I agree that the same claim can be made about every new cultural group that had an influx to the rest - THAT IS WHY WE REGULATED IT. Did you forget that part?

 

 

 

I don't want an open border. That has never occurred in the United States. What I do want, however, is the old "open for business" attitude that first generation Polish and Irish immigrants, who were allowed to come in much larger numbers legally, were greeted with and a lowering of the standards for permit applications, even if it means an increase in wait time. Just the opportunity to apply would do wonders to decrease illegal immigration.

[Guest GhostRanger]

 

 

 

I wouldn't break the law. I don't break laws. And I certainly am not going to travel to another country, take advantage of its economy, and have NO RESPECT for the laws it has.

 

 

 

You're probably more scrupulous than I am in that regard. I would definitely go to another country if I was in that situation. However, I don't think they are taking advantage of the economy. After all, they are confined to working in underground jobs.

 

 

 

You do realize that being able to work for more money in America, even if its in underground jobs, is taking advantage of our economy. They disrespect our laws and take advantage of our economy. Why would I want them here?

 

 

 

 

Its shaped by people who come to our country legally. If our Mexican border was open, it would be unlimited. And I agree that the same claim can be made about every new cultural group that had an influx to the rest - THAT IS WHY WE REGULATED IT. Did you forget that part?

 

 

 

I don't want an open border. That has never occurred in the United States. What I do want, however, is the old "open for business" attitude that first generation Polish and Irish immigrants, who were allowed to come in much larger numbers legally, were greeted with and a lowering of the standards for permit applications, even if it means an increase in wait time. Just the opportunity to apply would do wonders to decrease illegal immigration.

 

 

 

Our country was different during that age. You have to take into account that our population has expanded so much sense then. Our need for greater national security has increased. Basically, there is nothing about our time now and that time that are comparable - except that people still want in - and so to mimic the policies of that time would be irresponsible.

[unknownmasterofnothing]

I'm kinda confused, why can't they become legal immigrants?

[pianofrieak2]

I'm kinda confused, why can't they become legal immigrants?

 

 

 

They can be. It just takes time, money, and lots of paperwork.

 

 

 

Ghost and bearofthunder are both arguing and both have great points. But, I believe we can resolve this by doing one thing:

 

 

 

Fixing how we make illegal immigrants legal.

 

By doing this, we eliminate all needs of debate by bearofthunder and Ghost is happy with his arguments. Everyone is settled.

 

 

 

Of course, the problem is how many illegal immigrants you want to be made legal. They then get all of the benefits thereof which can cause a drain on our economy and change the national language (jk lol).

 

 

 

Bush's whole problem is how to fix the process of getting them legal. And the Democrats are making such a huge fuss about it in order to get more minority votes. They don't even know what to think or do. All they seem to do is complain, offering no solutions. Great people, eh? :roll:

[Guest GhostRanger]

I'm kinda confused, why can't they become legal immigrants?

 

 

 

They can be. It just takes time, money, and lots of paperwork.

 

 

 

Ghost and bearofthunder are both arguing and both have great points. But, I believe we can resolve this by doing one thing:

 

 

 

Fixing how we make illegal immigrants legal.

 

By doing this, we eliminate all needs of debate by bearofthunder and Ghost is happy with his arguments. Everyone is settled.

 

 

 

Of course, the problem is how many illegal immigrants you want to be made legal. They then get all of the benefits thereof which can cause a drain on our economy and change the national language (jk lol).

 

 

 

Bush's whole problem is how to fix the process of getting them legal. And the Democrats are making such a huge fuss about it in order to get more minority votes. They don't even know what to think or do. All they seem to do is complain, offering no solutions. Great people, eh? :roll:

 

 

 

Oh I have several ideas how to fix this system (none of them mine, just ones I've heard proposed). There's one out there I REALLY like a lot. None of them involve letting the illegals become "legal" residents without paying for their disrespectful breaking of our laws.

[pianofrieak2]

What's the idea, Ghost? I'm eager to hear it.

 

 

 

BTW, I never advocated amnesty either. Just fixing the process which sounds eerily similar to what you are suggesting. :)