Why do scientists believe the Big Bang created the world?

[Guest GhostRanger]

Your still missing my point. We know today that the roman/greek god's were not real because we can prove the logic behind them. My point is that, in years to come, we may be able to find the cause behind what created the universe and esentialy "disprove" the existance of god. Even those this disproving for the Roman/Greek god's is much more recent than the god's themself the "disproving" of our god may (or may not) happen many years from now. How long a god has "been a god" doesn't have as much of a relavence to the idea.

 

 

 

No, I got that point. Can you not read? I addressed that point very clearly. But let me explain again. First off, it does have to do with how long he has been around. The Greek and Roman gods were around for such a small time before people stopped believing in them - their gods were entirely based on their culture. My God is not. My God has survived critcism for much, much longer and people still believe in Him.

 

 

 

My point isn't that you will never prove him wrong - but you can't say "The Greek and Roman gods were proven wrong so your God might be one day" because those gods were so different entirely. They didn't last at all and my God has lasted - therefore I believe my God is something different. My God has not only been around because the culture needed a God to worship, and then when the culture changed the Gods changed (like the Greek and Roman gods) - my God has survived way longer and through multiple cultures and is still lasting in today's world.

 

 

 

I see where you're missing my point. It's not that the disproving of the greek and roman gods was "recent" - it is that they only lasted a short time during their culture's reign. My God was around before those gods, and has lasted longer than those gods and through several cultures - that is my reaosn for believing he will continue laughing. And since you think I missed your point - I'll show you were I answered that question in the post you quoted:

 

 

 

That is what makes me believe my God will not be proven false one day. The fact that it has lasted as long as it has with how many followers it has. You can't even compare it to the ancient Greek and Roman gods that were disproved because of how miniscule of a time they were around before being disproved compaired to how long my God has been around with people still believing in Him.

 

 

 

EDIT: How long a god has been a god does matter. If something goes unproved for as long as my God has - it says something. It's like gravity: it's a lot like science. If you have a theory that lasts the scrutiny of thousands of years, it makes sense that the theory is probably right and is going to keep lasting. Whereas other theories that only last a short time and are quickly disproven in comparison to another one can't compare to the one that has lasted so long. Sure, the long lasting theory might be disproven one day, but how long it has lasted is a very good reason to believe it will keep lasting.

[BlueLancer]

Ok, first off i'm just going to get away from the entire modern/ancient whatever deal. It doesn't really have much relavence.

 

 

 

The point he is getting across are that the roman and greek god's have both been "disaproved" due to science figuring out the reason.

 

 

 

Either way, the "god isn't modern" part of the discusion wasn't even the main point, but you seem to simply be ignoring it.

 

 

 

So, do answer this at least. Like notorious and I have said, the roman/greek gods have been proved "false" because they are no longer the actual causes behind certain events. What makes you so sure that our God may someday be disproven as well, that science may find an answer to the question?

 

 

 

You are still missing the point. Your point heavily relies on the fact that my God is modern and the ones that aren't worshipeed anymore (aka, have been "disproved") aren't. My God has been around longer than the ancient Greek and Roman gods and is still being worshipped. My God has survived all of the complete loss of faith that the Ancient Greek and Roman gods had and has been around longer than them.

 

 

 

Therefore, your argument that they were disproved is completely meaningless because the followers of my God is still increasing daily and my God has been around longer than the ancient Greek and Roman ones. It didn't take long for peopel to stop believing in them, but people STILL believe in my God.

 

 

 

That is what makes me believe my God will not be proven false one day. The fact that it has lasted as long as it has with how many followers it has. You can't even compare it to the ancient Greek and Roman gods that were disproved because of how miniscule of a time they were around before being disproved compaired to how long my God has been around with people still believing in Him.

 

 

 

(Note: anytime I say disprove, I am following your lead by assuming that i means "still having people believe in them as the cause of events" or whatnot)

 

 

 

Your still missing my point. We know today that the roman/greek god's were not real because we can prove the logic behind them. My point is that, in years to come, we may be able to find the cause behind what created the universe and esentialy "disprove" the existance of god. Even those this disproving for the Roman/Greek god's is much more recent than the god's themself the "disproving" of our god may (or may not) happen many years from now. How long a god has "been a god" doesn't have as much of a relavence to the idea.

 

 

 

For instance, the roman soldiers, possibly your ancestors if you happen to live in europe, really believed the god Mars could grant them victory in war, and they'd sacrifice to him and worship him.

 

 

 

What makes this God inexistant, just because he hasn't been around for long or because it has theoretically no supporters today?

 

 

 

We wont know what happens in the future as a result of possible wars. If christianity becomes obsolete just like greek gods, who's to claim it still is the "right" religion?

 

 

 

New religions will come and go, it's simply a coincidence that some religions like Islam and Christianity have been able to grow so big because technological advantages promoting the spread of religions has happened during the time these religions have been active.

 

 

 

Therefore, your argument that they were disproved is completely meaningless because the followers of my God is still increasing daily and my God has been around longer than the ancient Greek and Roman ones. It didn't take long for peopel to stop believing in them, but people STILL believe in my God.

 

 

 

I didn't expect you saying that. The credibility of an unproven idea has nothing to do with how many supporters it has or how long it's been around for. I am 100% sure there are religions much more older than any of the ones practised today, they do exist, there just aren't any worshippers left.

 

 

 

Just as a curiosity, you might want to know there are still tens of thousands of people in Greece that do believe in old gods. The number could be even higher, you can look up greek neopaganism if you're interested.

[Guest GhostRanger]

I didn't expect you saying that. The credibility of an unproven idea has nothing to do with how many supporters it has or how long it's been around for. I am 100% sure there are religions much more older than any of the ones practised today, they do exist, there just aren't any worshippers left.

 

 

 

Just as a curiosity, you might want to know there are still tens of thousands of people in Greece that do believe in old gods. The number could be even higher, you can look up greek neopaganism if you're interested.

 

 

 

I put the note on the end of mine to make sure people knew I wasn't using "disprove" as you might think. I don't think any religion has been "disproven" because you can't do that to a religion. I was using "disproven" to mean that people quit following the God (I was just using it how Nadril used it).

 

 

 

I also didn't know that about Greece and the ancient Greek gods - I was just responding to tigra's initial post. It doesn't affect my point though.

[Tigra00]

I wouldn't say they're the EXACT same "God", GhostRanger. Christians today follow Jesus just as much, if not more than God himself. Nevermind that's against like, the first commandment, but I would consider it an entire different being if it's like that. That whole "holy trinity" thing.

 

 

 

I don't think Jesus was meant to be worshipped as a God. He was simply a guy with a message. An important guy, if he was he who said to be, but not a man of "God" status. I've even heard people here say that Jesus *IS* God via that whole holy trinity thing or whatever...

 

 

 

You're wrong. The Old Testement constantly refers to the coming Messiah. Read the book of Isaiah (I can't spell...) and you'll know what I'm talking about. It is the exact same God because the Jews were (still are if they're still Jews) waiting for the Messiah to come. Jesus didn't replace God. Quit talking about Christianity - you obviously don't know much about it.

 

 

 

I never said he replaced God. I said that Chrsitians worship Jesus as a God. If you deny that, then apparently you don't know much about Christianity. :-s

 

 

 

You said you don't think Jesus was meant to be worshipped, but you don't realize - because you don't know anything about Christianity - is that Jesus is just another part of God and the Old Testement is filled with prophecies telling of the coming of the Messiah (Jesus). It's the same God and the Old Testement clearly prophecizes for the next part of God to come down in human form to save humanity.

 

 

 

The point you're making is if the old gods have been disproved, why not Jesus since he's not even as old as them, and that's ridiculous because we're still worshipping the same Gods, and we're still reading the same book. You just don't realize that Jesus has always been a part of our faith, but before him, we were just waiting for him.

 

 

 

Current Jews believe we picked the wrong guy - but they are still waiting for their Messiah. And when he comes (obviously I don't think he will, since I think it was Jesus) they will do the same thing Christians have done with Jesus - but that doesn't mean the God they worship is going to go away. It's the same God in different parts (therefore, not against the 10 Commandmants) and the prophecy for the Messiah has been there since the beginning and therefore isn't anything "new" like you suggest.

 

 

 

Your point is just wrong. Read the Old Testement and then get back to me.

 

 

 

I don't have to read the Old Testement to know that worshipping any diety but Yahweh/Jehova itself is "wrong". Yes, dude, I'm well aware that there is prophecies of a messiah in the Bible...How that is relevent to Jesus not equalling God is beyond me, but since you've read the Bible, you must be right! Right...? Nay.

 

 

 

Now of course, if I stop there, you'll call me an idiot and say they're not seperate diety's and that I should shut up and go read some other part of the Bible...No, just no. Me being birthed from my mother doesn't make me my mother in any way, shape, or form. It really doesn't matter what the Bible says, they're seperate beings. You can say "Oh, but it's a PART of God!" all day long, but it still doesn't make Jesus God. I know damn well that one of the commandments it you're not supposed to worship ANYTHING but Yahweh/Jehova ITSELF. Nothing else. Not a statue of Mary, not a picture of Jesus on a cross. Not Jesus himself. Assuming Jesus was indeed the son of God, and that he actually did all that uber stuff (most of it boarderlining "magic" but being covered-up by being called "miracles" so people can preach about how Harry Potter is ruining society :roll:) I still see no reason why Christians can FLAT-OUT just not worship God. By saying "Praise Jesus!" in church, you are not praising God. Jesus is not your God. Yahweh/Jehova is...your...God. When was the last time "Praise Yahweh/Jehova!" was said in a Christian church? Like, never. I watch those surmons on TV and whatnot, it's all "Jesus this, Jesus that, buy our $100 bible, send us $100 for Feed the Children and we'll only take 20% for profit" and all that nonsense.

 

 

 

I just find it amazing that the very rules that God laid out are broken by 2 billion people everyday. It honestly doesn't matter what you say, Jesus isn't God, just like I'm not my mother. Worshipping Jesus > God = Wrong. Notice how I said worshipping him OVER God, which is what Christians do. If you were to just be thankful to have a messiah and a saviour, but continue to worship the REAL God, you'd definately be "in the right".

 

 

 

It makes me shudder to know that a man that lived 2,000 years ago has been ascended to God-hood. No matter who he actually was or what he actually did, it makes me feel very sorry for the world...He was never meant to be worshipped over God himself. And no, I will not read the word-play of some scripture so I can be brain-washed by metaphores into thinking otherwise.

[Guest GhostRanger]

^You disagree with Christian theology, fair enough. Christians believe God/Jesus/Holy Trinity are one deity - you don't think that's possible. That's fine - we have different beliefs. You're not going to be able to "prove" that one deity can't have three parts though because you have no idea what even constitutes a deity. If I believe a deity can create the entire Universe by thinking about it, surely I believe He can exist as three seperate entities and still be one deity. The thing is, I don't believe anything is impossible with my God - and you are just looking to point out the errors by showing me what's impossible, so we're never going to be in-sync about what we're discussing. That's fine.

[liopleurodon]

As someone previously stated, dinosaur fossils were discovered millions or billion of years before human fossils. So if God created everything in 6 days, why do fossils indicate that some species lived millions or billions of years apart.

 

somebody wrote this some time ago...anywho, how do they know how old a fossil is by looking at it? they could just have been abused or put in a certain place that picks up dust and stuff faster, so it appears to have been there longer.

 

On another case, say you dont belive in a god. but when your down to death, you meet some god. there goes eternal life/another chance. in beliving something as "the big bang" you completely destroy any other chances at getting another/ eternal life. i am christian but say i dont belive in christianity. And the big bang is. at least i had a shot at eternal life and eternal love from the dead. in the big bang at least, you are sticking with the fact that when your gone, your gone. if your gunna start out skeptically, at least try it for the eternal life part. after that you'll probably see why we belive what we belive. or you could just deny everthing i just said and be happy bout life here. either way christians have a better chance at seeing loved ones and being in a place with only joy and happiness, instead of hatered and greed, like the world we're in now

[pro28]

As someone previously stated, dinosaur fossils were discovered millions or billion of years before human fossils. So if God created everything in 6 days, why do fossils indicate that some species lived millions or billions of years apart.

 

somebody wrote this some time ago...anywho, how do they know how old a fossil is by looking at it? they could just have been abused or put in a certain place that picks up dust and stuff faster, so it appears to have been there longer.

 

On another case, say you dont belive in a god. but when your down to death, you meet some god. there goes eternal life/another chance. in beliving something as "the big bang" you completely destroy any other chances at getting another/ eternal life. i am christian but say i dont belive in christianity. And the big bang is. at least i had a shot at eternal life and eternal love from the dead. in the big bang at least, you are sticking with the fact that when your gone, your gone. if your gunna start out skeptically, at least try it for the eternal life part. after that you'll probably see why we belive what we belive. or you could just deny everthing i just said and be happy bout life here. either way christians have a better chance at seeing loved ones and being in a place with only joy and happiness, instead of hatered and greed, like the world we're in now

 

 

 

They know how old the rock is with Carbon dating.

 

 

 

Oh yeah, if Christians are right, all of us will have an afterlife, just not in Heaven.

 

 

 

I don't believe in the Christian version of God. The Catholic Church screwed way too many times in the past, in my opinion, to try to claim that they are right and the only way to "salvation" is through them. I think we humans have perverted the image of God. If there is a God, then why would he let billions condemned to an eternity in Hell?

[malo2]

When you guys are done with this pointless religious rambling, heres an interesting article about the big bang: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0610040084oct04,1,3166371.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed

[Death_By_Pod]

 

Yea, I worded that wrong. My point was, science can only really change our circumstance - whereas Judaism/Christianity is full of things that will help us deal with our circumstances internally which will end up improving things.

 

 

 

So you think psychologists, psychiatrists and counsellors don't help us internally? What's next your going to say that you worded it wrong again and that science doesn't deal with things 'deeper' then your mind.

 

 

 

Anything that exists is natural and thus able to be dealt with scientifically. The things that you claim can only religion can help you with could be something that psychologists can study and include in their set of treatments. The words written in the bible are no different to the words written in a psychologistÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s text book. What can be comprehended by a religious devotee can also be comprehended by a scientist.

[Notorious_Ice]

Thankyou.

 

 

 

"It all comes down to if you want to believe in scientific theories based on proven facts.

 

 

 

Or stories involving someone walking on water, curing people and that theres a "better place" based on a few events which were true, but still had nothing to do with the stories."

 

 

 

The last part after the comma didn't make any sense. But anyways, don't

 

you think, that if someone could walk on water, it would be... the person who created water?

 

 

 

After the last comma, I ment that the stories are based on certain true facts which don't prove it true, but gives arguments for people that believe it. eg: Its been proven a man called jesus existed and he claimed to be the son of god, but It hasn't been proved he rose from the dead etc.

 

 

 

Thats assuming the person actually did create the water, which is both very very unlikely and unproven.

 

 

 

 

 

"So what makes you think that this "modern god" is real, even though the ancient gods werent? What makes you think years from now science won't be able to prove how the universe was made and everyone will think back and say

 

"phhhtt, why would people back then believe that rubbish? We know what really happened now"

 

 

 

Because Christianity/Judaism wasn't "created" to explain scientific phenomena. It was created to tell us how to live. Something science can never do.

 

It explains how the universe was formed, so what you said doesn't make sense. I know the bible contains much more than how the universe was made, and the story of jesus, but It still contains it. And science can explain how to live in terms of health, both physically and mentally.

 

 

 

 

 

I can see morals as an argument for religion, to which I have posted my thaughts, so you don't have to look through the pages Ill put it again here.

 

 

I believe Religion works great as a set of moral guidelines untill people start killing each other over whose god is better, or until those guidelines become outdated. Christians aren't killing off vast numbers of any other religion at the moment (except Muslims, and that doesn't count because the motive is oil, not religious zeal, though you could make a case that the Middle Eastern conflict is a modern day crusade for the holy land).

 

 

 

The Muslim rational for not eating pigs is that they are "Dirty" animals and it is not gods will for us to eat them. This may have made sense thousands or even hundreds of years ago, when pigs may have had bacteria in them that could cause certain diseases. This is not true today. The Christian rational for not having sex before marriage is that it is gods will for us to create families and not have sex before marriage. This may have made sense hundreds of years ago when sex before marriage created unwanted children and social decay. It is not true today.

 

 

 

 

 

"but oh wait, the bible says the universe was created in 7 (or whatever it is) days.

 

So they conflict with each other,"

 

 

 

"Or whatever it is". Before you start quoting the Bible, read something in it. And no, they do not conflict with each other. I love how everyone thinks the point of the Bible is to explain science, when that is not what it is for. If you read the Bible like a science textbook, you're going to be just as disappointed as if you read a science textbook for relationship advice.

 

Still, people read the bible, and see everything as true facts. When they read that Jesus rose from the dead, they see this as a FACT.

 

The bible explains how the universe was made, people see this as a fact. But science proves a "fact" wrong in the bible, It doesnt matter exactly how many days the bible says the universe was made, just that it was made in a certain amount of days, (a number under billions of years) Before god created man. But still, it has been proven that dinosaurs existed billions of years before man. Disproving the theory that the universe was created in days, then man was put on the earth.

 

 

 

 

 

"I did some research and found that the religous explanation for dinosaurs was that humans and dinosaurs lived at the same time basing their theory on a painting with dinosaurs in it. Which to me, and science, isnt hard backed proof.

 

 

 

Their other theory is that sandstone can form much quicker than other rock, so the layers of rock cannot prove without a doubt the age of the fossils. Yet fossils have been found in rock other than sandstone, and there have been no traces of human fossils."

 

 

 

Those would be religious people in the same boat as you - reading the Bible looking for knowledge it doesn't contain.

 

Again, the bible contains the supposed knowledge about how the universe was created. That one fact is proven wrong, so whats saying the rest of it isnt wrong and didn't happen? If the bible is believed as a WHOLE, as true, then one fact disproved, proves that the bible at least isnt true as a WHOLE.

 

 

 

 

 

"So based on religions in the past, someone makes a religion to explain something that science cannot. Or it makes dying easier to go through, because people believe that they are going to a better place."

 

 

 

See above. You know nothing about the Bible, so therefore you know nothing about the point of the Bible.

 

 

 

See above, the bible is still there to explain how the universe was created, and that there is a god.- There are other reasons, but that is still one of the things it is for, if it wasn't then it wouldn't mention the creation of the universe as 'facts'

 

 

 

 

 

"Its been proven that a man called jesus existed, which is a reason why people believe in it. But it was never proven that he performed all those "mericles." (sp?) I believe that there was a man called jesus, who claimed to be the son of god, but I believe that he wasn't and just thaught he was."

 

 

 

If He thought He was the Son of God, and He was wrong, then He would have to be crazy. Read the Gospels - He definitely wasn't crazy. And of course it has never been scientifically proven that miracles happened. Miracles are supernatural, science only explains the natural. Science will never be able to explain a miracle, that's why they're called "miracles".

 

I had a read of the Gospels, and I don't see how is proves he wasn't crazy. If he was mentally ill, and wrongly believed he was the son of god, That doesnt mean that he is going to be crazy in every or any other aspect.

 

 

 

 

 

I" believe that in the future, with the right technologies, science will prove with facts how we got here (and everything else that religions explain), and do to the religions today, exactly what it did to the ancient religions."

 

 

 

Except the religions today aren't trying to explain natural phenomena. Again, see this point repeated 3 times above.

 

Except that they do expain natural phenomena, whether its the point of the bible or not.

 

 

 

 

 

"And that is why I believe there is no god,"

 

 

 

You believe there is no God because religion doesn't explain the creation story? You've really missed the point.

 

 

 

I believe there is no god because of the reasons I have stated, especially the ancient gods which were suposed to take the sun across the sky etc. We know really why the sun appears to move across the sky. Yet all those years ago, these gods were believed in as fact. They believed Just like the grass is green, gods exist. Yet they were wrong, so whats different this time? And don't say morals and how to live, because they had gods for those aswell then.

 

And there are many different religions, of how to behave, what happens when you die, how the universe was created etc. They can't all be true. So even if there is a god, whose to say christianity isnt wrong and something else is true.

 

Heck, I could write my own "bible" explaining all the 'lil facts of life' my own way, have my own god ect and talk millions of people into believing in it and we have a new religion. How would that be different to your religion?

[Biabf]

Wow, this topic grew way bigger than I would have thought :shock:

 

 

 

This is not a topic about whether religion is true or not. It is a topic about what proof scientists have that the Big Bang happened.

[menot]

before everything was "created", there wasnt really such thing as days, since days are dependant on the rotational speed of the planet, so what did "6 days" mean?

[issy2]

Science=Religion+1

 

Did you know that there are 2 creation stories in the bible?

 

SO, if people take the bible as fact, then they say they believe 2 different things!

 

 

 

 

 

Which are.... :?:

[darkmage099]

Wow, this topic grew way bigger than I would have thought :shock:

 

 

 

This is not a topic about whether religion is true or not. It is a topic about what proof scientists have that the Big Bang happened.

 

 

 

It's also about what proof scientists don't have. There, religion comes in.

[Biabf]

Wow, this topic grew way bigger than I would have thought :shock:

 

 

 

This is not a topic about whether religion is true or not. It is a topic about what proof scientists have that the Big Bang happened.

 

 

 

It's also about what proof scientists don't have. There, religion comes in.

Well orginally I was more intrested in what evidence they have. Anyway, continue talking. :mrgreen:

[halospud]

Wikipedia isn't always right. Anybody can modify the contents of any subject. The Big Bang has some evidence from radiation and Einstien's string theory, but nothing is proven yet. The subject of God making the world might have some evidence, but that isn't proven either. My advice live life as it is or you can try to prove it yourself :thumbsup:

[Biabf]

Wikipedia isn't always right. Anybody can modify the contents of any subject. The Big Bang has some evidence from radiation and Einstien's string theory, but nothing is proven yet. The subject of God making the world might have some evidence, but that isn't proven either. My advice live life as it is or you can try to prove it yourself :thumbsup:

That's why I posted here, I trust tip.it more than information anyone can edit.

[spork182]

Well we were talking about this in science. I wasnt paying that much attention(lol) but this is most of what I heard: A while ago there was a scientist named mr.popolopodous (not his real name...obviously) well anyway, popolopodous was looking through his telescope one day, and realized that each day, every planet moved slightly farther back."O Snazzle!" mr.popolopodous said. He realized that if the galaxy was slowly expanding, then a really really really really really long time ago, they must have originated from just one place. And that there must have been a BIG BANG to have the planets expand and move farther back like that...I would be such a good teacher :mrgreen:

[bacab]

According to one of my friends, the universe was created by God by accident. The Big Bang was just God lighting a fart.

 

 

 

But I don't want to give much credit to it, thought it does make sense.

 

 

 

I mean, the universe has to come from somewhere. I do believe in the Big Bang but that we can't prove or disprove that God or some Creator did it. I mean, if we could prove or disprove scientifically that A One True God exists, then his work must be pretty shoddy.

 

 

 

All of you people should definitely read Angels & Demons by Dan Brown. It has some pretty cool stuff concerning the beginning of the universe.

[Guest GhostRanger]

All of you people should definitely read Angels & Demons by Dan Brown. It has some pretty cool stuff concerning the beginning of the universe.

 

 

 

I'm going to pretend you didn't write that.

[Guest]

I wouldn't say they're the EXACT same "God", GhostRanger. Christians today follow Jesus just as much, if not more than God himself. Nevermind that's against like, the first commandment, but I would consider it an entire different being if it's like that. That whole "holy trinity" thing.

 

 

 

I don't think Jesus was meant to be worshipped as a God. He was simply a guy with a message. An important guy, if he was he who said to be, but not a man of "God" status. I've even heard people here say that Jesus *IS* God via that whole holy trinity thing or whatever...

 

 

 

You're wrong. The Old Testement constantly refers to the coming Messiah. Read the book of Isaiah (I can't spell...) and you'll know what I'm talking about. It is the exact same God because the Jews were (still are if they're still Jews) waiting for the Messiah to come. Jesus didn't replace God. Quit talking about Christianity - you obviously don't know much about it.

 

 

 

I never said he replaced God. I said that Chrsitians worship Jesus as a God. If you deny that, then apparently you don't know much about Christianity. :-s

 

 

 

You said you don't think Jesus was meant to be worshipped, but you don't realize - because you don't know anything about Christianity - is that Jesus is just another part of God and the Old Testement is filled with prophecies telling of the coming of the Messiah (Jesus). It's the same God and the Old Testement clearly prophecizes for the next part of God to come down in human form to save humanity.

 

 

 

The point you're making is if the old gods have been disproved, why not Jesus since he's not even as old as them, and that's ridiculous because we're still worshipping the same Gods, and we're still reading the same book. You just don't realize that Jesus has always been a part of our faith, but before him, we were just waiting for him.

 

 

 

Current Jews believe we picked the wrong guy - but they are still waiting for their Messiah. And when he comes (obviously I don't think he will, since I think it was Jesus) they will do the same thing Christians have done with Jesus - but that doesn't mean the God they worship is going to go away. It's the same God in different parts (therefore, not against the 10 Commandmants) and the prophecy for the Messiah has been there since the beginning and therefore isn't anything "new" like you suggest.

 

 

 

Your point is just wrong. Read the Old Testement and then get back to me.

 

 

 

I don't have to read the Old Testement to know that worshipping any diety but Yahweh/Jehova itself is "wrong". Yes, dude, I'm well aware that there is prophecies of a messiah in the Bible...How that is relevent to Jesus not equalling God is beyond me, but since you've read the Bible, you must be right! Right...? Nay.

 

 

 

Now of course, if I stop there, you'll call me an idiot and say they're not seperate diety's and that I should shut up and go read some other part of the Bible...No, just no. Me being birthed from my mother doesn't make me my mother in any way, shape, or form. It really doesn't matter what the Bible says, they're seperate beings. You can say "Oh, but it's a PART of God!" all day long, but it still doesn't make Jesus God. I know damn well that one of the commandments it you're not supposed to worship ANYTHING but Yahweh/Jehova ITSELF. Nothing else. Not a statue of Mary, not a picture of Jesus on a cross. Not Jesus himself. Assuming Jesus was indeed the son of God, and that he actually did all that uber stuff (most of it boarderlining "magic" but being covered-up by being called "miracles" so people can preach about how Harry Potter is ruining society :roll:) I still see no reason why Christians can FLAT-OUT just not worship God. By saying "Praise Jesus!" in church, you are not praising God. Jesus is not your God. Yahweh/Jehova is...your...God. When was the last time "Praise Yahweh/Jehova!" was said in a Christian church? Like, never. I watch those surmons on TV and whatnot, it's all "Jesus this, Jesus that, buy our $100 bible, send us $100 for Feed the Children and we'll only take 20% for profit" and all that nonsense.

 

 

 

I just find it amazing that the very rules that God laid out are broken by 2 billion people everyday. It honestly doesn't matter what you say, Jesus isn't God, just like I'm not my mother. Worshipping Jesus > God = Wrong. Notice how I said worshipping him OVER God, which is what Christians do. If you were to just be thankful to have a messiah and a saviour, but continue to worship the REAL God, you'd definately be "in the right".

 

 

 

It makes me shudder to know that a man that lived 2,000 years ago has been ascended to God-hood. No matter who he actually was or what he actually did, it makes me feel very sorry for the world...He was never meant to be worshipped over God himself. And no, I will not read the word-play of some scripture so I can be brain-washed by metaphores into thinking otherwise.

 

 

 

Because Jesus came to Die on the Cross for all People so that we may have our sins forgiven and we may have eternal Life! That is why we worship him. And the only way to the Father (God) is through the Son (Jesus) and it specifically says that in the New Testement of the Bible. There go Detective Sherlock! :wink:

 

 

 

And yes God the Father, Jesus the Son and The Holy Spirit are the same thing In 3 Forms and we worship all of them as equally as Christians and each form has its specific purpose. FULL STOP.

 

 

 

AND QUOTE "And no, I will not read the word-play of some scripture so I can be brain-washed by metaphores into thinking otherwise." UNQUOTE

 

You don't need to read the word-play of some scripture, and you wont be "brain-washed" (that deserves a lol) into thinking otherwise as you don't have any faith in the first place and that is what Christianity is all about (as well of many other things). So don't even bother matey, if that's your attituted. :wink:

[Tigra00]

Jews believe in your same God. Jews believe that following that God, as they were told to in the first place, will get them to Heaven. Are you going to denounce Jews, the religion of Jesus himself, and say they're all going to Hell for not wrshipping Jesus?

 

 

 

Sorry. Don't follow.

[hiddendark]

I am a stubburn and lazy person so here we go...

 

 

 

God made everything

 

 

 

If you plan on trying to change my mind DON'T because you will just be wasting your time.