Society, Religion, Economy and every other aspect of our lives has today much looser rules than those of a decade, a century or a millenium ago.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Life today is much less tied to strict rules: the uses of society are much more liberal today. Economically, countries are loosening more and more by the day their State control on companies. Politically, conservative/dictatorial governments are becoming an exception, while only 30 years ago, more than half of the countries were ruled by conservative dictatorships. The idea of women competing against men has been accepted. Homosexuality begins to be more widely accepted by people, even in the most conservative places on Earth. God has once been considered the only source of wisdom, then, both Science and Religion were accepted as sources. Nowadays, some people think Science is the only source.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Does that mean that the natural tendency of the world is to get more liberal with time, or is that just a temporary wave?

 

 

 

If it is a natural tendency, are conservative thoughts slowing down the human development?

 

 

 

If it is just a wave, where are we getting at?

 

 

 

Or can liberalization be dangerous?

 

 

 

What are your opinions?

heh, i was discussing today in history about the existence of "conservative reform". Seems like an oxymoron, eh?

I think it needs to come in waves...and we are VERY due for a conservative reform.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A little liberalism is good, but it's gotten way out of hand in the past 10 years. We've had almost 100 years of controversy in 10 short years...people are lazy, soccer moms that drove Chrystler minivans a decade ago are now forcing me off the road in Hummers, our obesity has trippled in 20 years because of the liberalist "happy-go-lucky" attitude, Christians and Jews are all but persecuted in the hands of "religious equality" from groups like the ACLU...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We need to take a step back and breath for a decade or so...geez...give society abroad a chance to recover.

I think it needs to come in waves...and we are VERY due for a conservative reform.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I believe it comes in waves, but I don't think we're getting a conservative reform for a while.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I figure we will first be seeing pedophiles satirized in sitcoms (it's just their lifestyle choice, don't judge), or return to romanistic morality (deathmatches, public prostitution, harems, you know how it is) before we finally realize how [developmentally delayed]ed we're being and switch things up.

Thanks for saying what I wanted to say, but couldn't ;P.

I think it comes in waves... and we're VERY due for a liberal reform.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think it will go the way of religious fundamentalism, where people get taught creationism in science classes and criminals are flown around the world in order to torture them away from the rule of law, before we finally realise how mentally challenged we're being and switch things up.

my opinion is that society will split. liberal and conservative. maybe both hating and judging each other and with some luck there is a slight change of respect.

... why would liberalism lead to decadance?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Barring an unforseen disaster I think it's here to stay for quite a while. Although stuff like this mostly fluctuates, the liberalism of today is an inherent basis of pretty much all western societies. Sure, feodalism was once a pretty solid basis for human socities, but with today's technology I think liberalism is the best way of maintaining political, social and economic equilibrium.

... why would liberalism lead to decadance?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Barring an unforseen disaster I think it's here to stay for quite a while. Although stuff like this mostly fluctuates, the liberalism of today is an inherent basis of pretty much all western societies. Sure, feodalism was once a pretty solid basis for human socities, but with today's technology I think liberalism is the best way of maintaining political, social and economic equilibrium.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Because while a little governmental liberalism is good, but the social liberalism we have seen is too much. Yes, things change, but they have never changed as fast as we have seen within the past 10 years.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I saw 7 year olds saying words that I didn't know existed until I was 18...words of a bad kind. We all but flat out tell our kids in the 6th grade that it's ok to have sex if you use protection...but oh wait, if you do get pregnant it's ok because you can get an abortion! I mean, way to teach responsibility and respect for life right there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And Dusqi...that is extremely unlikely to happen. Religious groups only have minimal power to grasp on to avoid being destroyed by society. And seeing how easily the teaching of creationism has been shot down recently, I doubt it will take root soon.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If we had a complete liberal reform at the rate things are going, within a year people will be having sex in the streets, then watch "The Ron Jeremy" hour on ABC Family channel. And yes, I am being sarcastic.

I like the liberal way of thinking and the concepts that go with it, but it reality people can't handle making their own decisions sensibly. Some can but most can't.

Aren't we already seeing a regression of liberalism globally after 9/11?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We're steadily giving up freedoms in the West for fear of terror. I think that this is a trend that could continue.

... why would liberalism lead to decadance?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think it would, I was just trying to give different alternatives on my first post.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nathaninch: Yes, but that's pretty much only happening in North America. There's still strong liberalism in other parts of the world, such as mine. Thus, do you think those conservative "advances" are just slowing down the human development?

Nathaninch: Yes, but that's pretty much only happening in North America. There's still strong liberalism in other parts of the world, such as mine. Thus, do you think those conservative "advances" are just slowing down the human development?

 

 

 

I wouldn't say conservative advances slow development, but it does feel like we are retracing our steps sometimes.

 

Nathaninch: Yes, but that's pretty much only happening in North America. There's still strong liberalism in other parts of the world, such as mine. Thus, do you think those conservative "advances" are just slowing down the human development?

 

 

 

I wouldn't say conservative advances slow development, but it does feel like we are retracing our steps sometimes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When you are at the edge of the cliff, sometimes it is better to take a few steps back.

Human rights violations...

 

 

 

Not believing science because your favoritest book says so?

 

 

 

So being a conservative is a good thing...

Human rights violations...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Way to be specific. If your gonna take a jab at something at least go into a little detail or use a couple examples.

I believe in science, I just don't believe in a theory that says I used to be a monkey. Of course, I don't debate creationism vs evolution on the internet, since it's like trying to explain metaphysics to a dog. Futile and you are likely to get bit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of course, I really doubt you to get past the wrong concept that every conservative disbelieves in science at all in the face of God.

Barihawk: so you compare evolutionists to dogs?

 

 

 

Way to go...

Barihawk: so you compare evolutionists to dogs?

 

 

 

Way to go...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was comparing the futility, thank you. I am bad with metaphors.

Well, isn't it radical, or "liberal" in this case, ideas which fuel progress and advancement? It's usually brilliant thoughts and concepts which seem eerie to us now that end up becoming common place over the years.

Because while a little governmental liberalism is good, but the social liberalism we have seen is too much. Yes, things change, but they have never changed as fast as we have seen within the past 10 years.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I saw 7 year olds saying words that I didn't know existed until I was 18...words of a bad kind. We all but flat out tell our kids in the 6th grade that it's ok to have sex if you use protection...but oh wait, if you do get pregnant it's ok because you can get an abortion! I mean, way to teach responsibility and respect for life right there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And Dusqi...that is extremely unlikely to happen. Religious groups only have minimal power to grasp on to avoid being destroyed by society. And seeing how easily the teaching of creationism has been shot down recently, I doubt it will take root soon.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If we had a complete liberal reform at the rate things are going, within a year people will be having sex in the streets, then watch "The Ron Jeremy" hour on ABC Family channel. And yes, I am being sarcastic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*shrug* Compared to gender inequalities (sometimes refered to as the 'patriarchal oppression'), the still widespread lack of individual rights, the occasional complete disregard for those rights, discrimination against just about any individual perceived as different, little kids saying "bad words" and an earlier sexual debut seems like a more than fair tradeoff.

I believe in science, I just don't believe in a theory that says I used to be a monkey.

 

 

 

---

 

 

 

Of course, I really doubt you to get past the wrong concept that every conservative disbelieves in science at all in the face of God.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There's no such theory, if you'd like to show me a reliable research that says "humans evolved from apes", then it's ok. I've yet to see one. Because there is none, because humans didn't evolve from monkeys or apes or whatever, though there may have been similarities between early humans and apes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, not every conservatie disbelieves in science, many embrace science as the supreme natural truth (not divine), while still believing in a God.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You may want to read the thoughts of Pope John Paul II, the head of the catholic church (now dead). He was one of the most reasonable religous people, and he held the most powerful religious position in the world. You'd suppose he's the epitome of conservatism, but read further: http://www.its.caltech.edu/~nmcenter/sc ... -9211.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Faith can never contradict reason

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What is important in a scientific or philosophic theory is above all that it should be true or, at least, seriously and solidly grounded. And the purpose of your Academy is precisely to discern and to make known, in the present state of science and within its proper limits, what can be regarded as an acquired truth or at least as enjoying such a degree of probability that it would be imprudent and unreasonable to reject it. In this way unnecessary conflicts can be avoided.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The seriousness of scientific knowledge will thus be the best contribution that the Academy can make to the exact formulation and solution of the serious problems to which the Church, by virtue of her specific mission, is obliged to pay close attention to problems no longer related merely to astronomy, physics and mathematics, but also to relatively new disciplines such as biology and biogenetics. Many recent scientific discoveries and their possible applications affect man more directly than ever before, his thought and action, to the point of seeming to threaten the very basis of what is human.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On the issue of liberalism prevailing, just take a look at history and the quote "First they'll laugh at you, then they will fight you, then you'll win". New and liberal ideas with solid backing will be always first shunned upon, eventually being embraced by the society.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then, after a certain time period, society will go backwards and disintegrate, just like Europe went from roman civilisation and luxuries to the dark ages full of famine, war torn kingdoms and few cultural and societal advances.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The same could happen soon, but the globalised world as we speak of it has only existed for a few decades, I doubt it's already starting to collapse. The only inevitable problem I see is sources of energy and global warming, especially the first one. But even if we were to only use fossilic fuels, there is still enough oil for 40 years, which is a lot of time which can be spent on researching better options.

On the issue of liberalism prevailing, just take a look at history and the quote "First they'll laugh at you, then they will fight you, then you'll win". New and liberal ideas with solid backing will be always first shunned upon, eventually being embraced by the society.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am not talking about a few radical good ideas that bode well for society.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am referring to social liberalism, which is rapidly degressing us to a point where sexual deviance is once again celebrated and respect for others is lost. We are not making progress through the "liberality" that America seems to crave these days.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am not opposed to visionaries, just the idiots who make up their own definitions of what society should be.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And I did study biology and biogenetics to a degree. I may not ethically support cloning, but regard it as a breakthrough in science. I know how the world works and what makes things tick. I was trying to say that not all conervative Christians make signs of the cross whenever science is mentioned.

Interestingly enough, the most religious man i know is the head of the physics department at my school... :?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway, i do think the orignal post is correct to a degree. Things always revert back to some form of their orignal state, and call me crazy, but i think this will soon happen in America. Here in england, almost nobody under the age of 40 goes to church on sundays. They accept it when people denounce religion as the few people who do still believe are passive believers.

 

 

 

Now correct me if im wrong, but in America, there are A LOT of hardcore religious people, especially in the South. From people we've talked to in my history class, and from various documentaries and whatnot, i reckon there are a minority of people, yet still a fairly large amount who are as fundamentalist about their christian faith as those terrible people who harm others in the name of islam.

 

 

 

With Bush's goverment being the most actively religous goverment seen in the western world for a long time, i personally think its only a matter of time before in certain places in America at least, church will become mandatory and segregation between religions (although that even happens here to an extent) will occur.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nah i probably am just crazy \

 

 

 

I am not opposed to visionaries, just the idiots who make up their own definitions of what society should be.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

People make up cultural definitions of what society 'should be'. I didn't know this was another topic exclusively about sexuality, but if for example the American society is to revert to the 'ultra liberal' days of Rome where practically nothing is shunned upon, then it will. People have proven to be happy to live in such a society, if enough people think it's good, it will become the norm.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This kind of development can hardly be seen in other developed countries though, such as scandinavia (though it is not a single country). While they have ideologically achieved almost ultimate liberality without sacrificing social benefits, they are not overly sexual or morally decayed (see the least corrupted countries) and their populations are of moderate size.