Death penalty for Saddam Hussein

[mad4u689]

Because we want to show how Saddam is so bad for killing people, we kill him ourselves. Great!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Crimes against humanity" is such a loaded phrase, but I think that if you're going to use it, you should include trying to pass premeditated murder off as justice, as a crime against humanity as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then again, I don't believe in life without parole, either. Everyone (even Saddam) should have the chance to reform, no matter how unlikely it might seem now.

[assassin_696]

Because we want to show how Saddam is so bad for killing people, we kill him ourselves. Great!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Crimes against humanity" is such a loaded phrase, but I think that if you're going to use it, you should include trying to pass premeditated murder off as justice, as a crime against humanity as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then again, I don't believe in life without parole, either. Everyone (even Saddam) should have the chance to reform, no matter how unlikely it might seem now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of course I respect your principle's, but I don't see how you can argue that Saddam Hussein should have the chance to reform. It's fairly clear that he's not only an evil human being, who's only bent on power but also shows not only no resentment for his crimes but also no respect for the justice system in the first place.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I suppose I think that he's got off lightly. I wouldn't mind locking him up in a small cell, and making him watch home movies of or look at pictures of every single person he killed (directly or indirectly) every single day. Maybe then he'd see the wrong of his ways, but i still doubt it.

[Ragen]

Because we want to show how Saddam is so bad for killing people, we kill him ourselves. Great!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Crimes against humanity" is such a loaded phrase, but I think that if you're going to use it, you should include trying to pass premeditated murder off as justice, as a crime against humanity as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then again, I don't believe in life without parole, either. Everyone (even Saddam) should have the chance to reform, no matter how unlikely it might seem now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Even though I'd agree with that in most cases, I think that Saddam needs to die this time. There is very little, almost no chance of him reforming and the Iraqi people want him to die. I'm not big on retribution but some of the things he did really were cruel and twisted.

[Futurama]

The government have been soft enough on him letting him live this long imo.

 

 

 

im sure a huge part of the iraqi nation believe hanging's too quick and painless for such an evil bastard and would take any opportunity to have him writhing in a slow, painful and humiliating death.

 

 

 

Tony Blair's opposed to hanging because apparently it's barbaric, but I couldnt help take sides with him when he was interviewed because the news reporter just kept repeating "so you're opposed to it." tony blair went mental at him hahah, and I don't blame him...he said he's opposed and everyone heard him the first time :|.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But yeah, i think he deserves a slow and painful death bascially...slate me for it if you want, but the amount of pain he caused to that country, he deserves it back tenfold imo...

[goldphishies]

And they tried him why? His crimes were plain, should of killed him on the spot, but hey, better late than never, eh? :mrgreen: :mrgreen: =D> =D> =D> =D>

[goldphishies]

And they tried him why? His crimes were plain, should of killed him on the spot, but hey, better late than never, eh? But still, id like to see him starved to death or something.... a bit more painful than hanging, after what he did. Its a pain that he's gonna be a martyr though, the few ppl he still has following him will be honored he was atleast a martyr, but at least he's still dead. He deserves what he gets, he was winding up for a second holocost... :mrgreen: :mrgreen: =D> =D> =D> =D>

[dangeresque]

 

 

 

 

 

It's always America's fault!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Everyone on the interweb should know that by now! Otherwise you're a dirty fascist pigdog!

 

 

 

stop being such a knuckle dragger...its not americas fault for what the "iragi" judge sentenced saddam to.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I believe Zonorhc was being sarcastic. And yes, he is an Iraqi judge.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

darkmage099 - I live in the UK, and unfortunately have never been to my home country. But that does not stop me from being as patriotic as any other Iraqi.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

o sorry, if he was being sarcastic he did a real good job of foolin me lol

[Anesthesia]

Don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but here's a copy and paste from wikipedia:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

According to the New York Times, Saddam Hussein's verdict and sentence will "come under review by the nine-judge appellate chamber of the trial court. There is no time limit for the appeal court's review, but Iraqi and American officials who work with the court said that the earliest realistic date for Mr Hussein's execution, assuming it stood up to review, would be next spring." [53] Iraqi law requires executions to take place within 30 days of the end of the appeal process; however it also forbids the executions of people aged over 70 years old, a status Saddam Hussein acquires on 28 April 2007. [54]

[mad4u689]

 

 

 

Of course I respect your principle's, but I don't see how you can argue that Saddam Hussein should have the chance to reform. It's fairly clear that he's not only an evil human being, who's only bent on power but also shows not only no resentment for his crimes but also no respect for the justice system in the first place.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I suppose I think that he's got off lightly. I wouldn't mind locking him up in a small cell, and making him watch home movies of or look at pictures of every single person he killed (directly or indirectly) every single day. Maybe then he'd see the wrong of his ways, but i still doubt it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Even though I'd agree with that in most cases, I think that Saddam needs to die this time. There is very little, almost no chance of him reforming and the Iraqi people want him to die. I'm not big on retribution but some of the things he did really were cruel and twisted.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But how can you make an exception in one case - and, not only that, but based on your own subjective opinion? I mean, it is true that the vast majority of individuals (including myself) think that Saddam will not reform himself in this lifetime. But as a human being, shouldn't he have that chance - under a PAROLE type of setting?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That is, the idea behind parole is that if someone has shown themself to be reformed - shown that they can be a productive member of society again - then to continue imprisoning them at that point would be JUST revenge punishment, as opposed to keeping society safe. It is doubtful that Saddam Hussein would ever reach that point, but if he did, shouldn't he have the same rights as everyone else?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some of the things he did were twisted and cruel, and they make me sick, and emotional. However, when you're talking about the law and justice, you HAVE to look at things from a logical and reasonable perspective, because humans are biased creatures by nature. And from a logical and reasonable perspective, it just doesn't make sense.

[Anesthesia]

One of the aims of sentencing in English law is retribution. I for one think that it is an important part of punishment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It does make sense from a logical point of view because it is part of human nature to want revenge. That is why prisons exist, as opposed to reprogramming & brainwashing centres for the condemned.

[Guest GhostRanger]

Mad - I know we're not going to agree on this issue - but I think it is very unfair to say that it is an illogical viewpoint and that your view is unbiased. Your view comes from your emotional tie to human life as well and is no more biased than one who wants to execute murderers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As Anesthesia alluded to, this isn't about teaching people lessons - this is about paying for a crime. It is perfectly logical to forfeit your life after committing genocide. Sure, maybe someone can reform - but it is just as logical to take the position that says someone has forfeited their life and their chance to reform.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

One factor that is considered greatly in murder trials here in the US is whether or not the criminal shows any sign of remorse. If the criminal does show remorse during the case, capital punishment often is seeked. Having the trial is the chance the person has to reform in cases like this because of their magnitude. Not only has Saddam not shown remorse, he has been nothing but defiant through the entire case. It is perfectly logical to take someone's life as punishment for this type of crime.

[BlueLancer]

Not only has Saddam not shown remorse, he has been nothing but defiant through the entire case. It is perfectly logical to take someone's life as punishment for this type of crime.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nobody can doubt that. This is a special case, and yes it's perfectly logical to take his life as a punishment. But here, the debate was also about the legal aspect and his human rights.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A trial where the judges are constantly changed, his own lawyers mysteriously disappear or get murdered, audio in the court transcripts that are sent to western media is bleeped out sometimes when he testifies, sometimes his testification is denied in the middle of his sentence...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It does make sense to judge him by his own laws (which allow capital punishment) but no matter the crime, he should have a fair and neutral chance to defend himself, which we know is nearly impossible since the court is under (obvious) heavy influence on behalf of the US.

[mad4u689]

To Anesthesia and Ghost:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't mean to suggest that it is illogical to have a view other than my own about the nature of punishment. Rather, I was responding to specific posts, in which the reason for punishment seemed to be purely anger regarding the specific case. I think it is important to go through an objective judicial system of trials to reach the ultimate decision on punishment, rather than popular opinion about "how bad a person" the defendent is, which leaves even more room for biases such as racism and classism than our current institutionalized system. I do not feel that the death penalty is fundamentally illogical - just something that shouldn't exist.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It does make sense from a logical point of view because it is part of human nature to want revenge. That is why prisons exist, as opposed to reprogramming & brainwashing centres for the condemned.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, I would argue that prisons should ideally be only reform centers, aimed at rehabilitating criminals back into society. I have a fundamental problem with the prison system as it stands, and think education and reform are the two most important things to improve society today. If you would like to call these institutions of reform "reprogramming & brainwashing centres," I will accept that as valid; it is true that these ideal centers of reform would be brainwashing criminals to certain standards of morality (similar to how we accept certain standards of morality, such as that murder is not OK, as deserving of punishment now).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, this is probably as good a time as any for me to note that I don't necessarily believe everything that I argue on tip.it. I do, however, feel that political discussion on tip.it has a decidedly conservative baseline opinion (especially among the intelligent posters), and would like to offer some more liberal perspectives, under the guise of my own opinion, that I hope will cause everyone (liberals and conservatives alike) to challenge some of their preconcieved notions that may have gone unconsidered.

[Anesthesia]

How do you think a victim of a horrible crime will feel when they discover that all society wants to do is try and make the criminal a better person?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not delivering appropriate punishment for a crime severely reduces any deterrent, being caught becomes a minor inconvenience.

[Guest GhostRanger]

How do you think a victim of a horrible crime will feel when they discover that all society wants to do is try and make the criminal a better person?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not delivering appropriate punishment for a crime severely reduces any deterrent, being caught becomes a minor inconvenience.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And it goes further than that I think.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Treating all prisons like reform centers is only begging to have prisoners cheat their way out of prison. If the entire goal of a prisom becomes to reform people, how quickly do you think prisoners are going to start claiming they are reformed?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The reason a prison system works is because prisoners are not being locked up with the hope that they can get out - that way, only true reform will occasionally let them out. And that is assuming that society doesn't want to give them their full punishment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT: Didn't see your post Lancer...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It does make sense to judge him by his own laws (which allow capital punishment) but no matter the crime, he should have a fair and neutral chance to defend himself, which we know is nearly impossible since the court is under (obvious) heavy influence on behalf of the US.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I completely agree that there is a biased against Saddam that makes the trial unfair. However, that's what happens when you are a worldwide notorious dictator.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think that you are being pretty misleading when you say that the case is biased because of a heavy influence by the US. You have to remember, he is being held trial by a group of Iraqis who opposed his dictatorship, and groups that he mistreated. The majority of Iraqi citizens have enough hatred and contempt towards Saddam that they don't need US influence to make the case biased - and you should be more responsible than trying to make this look like US doing. Anyone who passed the 9th grade can realize that the people Saddam oppressed are going to have a pre-determined hatred for him without someone else stoking the fire.

[mad4u689]

How do you think a victim of a horrible crime will feel when they discover that all society wants to do is try and make the criminal a better person?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not delivering appropriate punishment for a crime severely reduces any deterrent, being caught becomes a minor inconvenience.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's not a minor inconvenience, when you have to stay in reformatory prison and not live your life (spending time with your family and friends, living in your own place, even having a job and your own hobbies). Prison is not just a minor inconvience - it completely interrupts your life - even when its goal is reform, not just punishment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How do I think the victim of a horrible crime will feel? I hope they will feel good, knowing that the criminal will be kept in a prison, away from where ze can harm other people, and that if the criminal truly reforms hirself, ze will become a productive member of society. I hope that the victim will feel anger, but despite their immense pain, will feel some sort of satisfaction knowing that the terrible crime that was committed may eventually result in at least some good for the world, instead of just more pain and death and negativity.

[mad4u689]

And it goes further than that I think.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Treating all prisons like reform centers is only begging to have prisoners cheat their way out of prison. If the entire goal of a prisom becomes to reform people, how quickly do you think prisoners are going to start claiming they are reformed?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The reason a prison system works is because prisoners are not being locked up with the hope that they can get out - that way, only true reform will occasionally let them out. And that is assuming that society doesn't want to give them their full punishment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think it should be easy to get out of prison. I think there are capable psychologists out there who are able to tell the difference between those who are "really reformed" and those who are just faking it. I think the answer is thus in better reform, and better education for people (like psychologists) who can help keep the system working properly.

[Guest GhostRanger]

 

And it goes further than that I think.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Treating all prisons like reform centers is only begging to have prisoners cheat their way out of prison. If the entire goal of a prisom becomes to reform people, how quickly do you think prisoners are going to start claiming they are reformed?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The reason a prison system works is because prisoners are not being locked up with the hope that they can get out - that way, only true reform will occasionally let them out. And that is assuming that society doesn't want to give them their full punishment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think it should be easy to get out of prison. I think there are capable psychologists out there who are able to tell the difference between those who are "really reformed" and those who are just faking it. I think the answer is thus in better reform, and better education for people (like psychologists) who can help keep the system working properly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A psychologist can't determine whether or not everyone has reformed. They can diagnose people as mentally unstable and declare whether or not they are or aren't anymore - but those people are already sent to asylums. For those who aren't declared "mentally unstable" and are sent to regular prisons, you can't prove if they have been reformed one way or the other.

[Fadfdfd]

Personally I feel he didn't deserve a trial and should have been sentenced to death or some appropriate alternative upon his capture.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

WTF are you talking about??? That made me sick. I believe it is BY LAW, in the US Bill of Rights, that You have the right to a fair trial? You can't just go around killing people because you assume they killed these people for no reason. Was Saddam Hussein a sycko? Always the chance he could be. Can you kill someone who is a sycko and has Mental [developmentally delayed]ation? Nope. Think before you post something like that.

[VOV]

This worlds a better place with him and his sons gone.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tell that to the average Iraqi citizen. Iraq is on the brink of a civil war and the insurgency is more powerful than ever.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But yes, we're all safer now that Saddam and his WMD's are gon... oh wait, he didn't have any when Iraq was invaded :oops:

[BlueLancer]

 

 

 

I think that you are being pretty misleading when you say that the case is biased because of a heavy influence by the US. You have to remember, he is being held trial by a group of Iraqis who opposed his dictatorship, and groups that he mistreated. The majority of Iraqi citizens have enough hatred and contempt towards Saddam that they don't need US influence to make the case biased - and you should be more responsible than trying to make this look like US doing. Anyone who passed the 9th grade can realize that the people Saddam oppressed are going to have a pre-determined hatred for him without someone else stoking the fire.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

40% of the population is Sunni, 60% is Shia. So yes, most likely a majority would like to see Saddam go down, but very few sunnis would want their own protector to die, who granted special opportunities for the minority of the country.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

By sentencing him to death, the court ruling already caused lots of shia muslims to go out on the street to celebrate. The sunni are mostly angry about it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not to mention the insurgents and Saddam loyalists (which includes a lot of the former iraqi army and some of them are Shia) are growing in power daily, it's not a simple matter of passing the 9th grade and understanding the consequences of your "bad behavior". No matter what Saddam has done, they should proceed with caution, he's not dead yet after all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If I could prevent a full scale civil war and send him to prison for life instead, I'd do it.

[Guest GhostRanger]

While all those points are true - the citizens who are actively playing a part in forging the new government - those participating in the trial of Saddam - already harbor bitter resentment towards him. Yes, there are PLENTY of Iraqis who dislike Saddam, but those who are taking the initiative to give him a trial through the new government are those who don't like him - and they don't need US influence to convince them to hang the ex-dictator. I restate that fact that it is irresponsible for you to make it look like the US is the large influence in the ruling, when it is clear as day that the ones handing down the sentence don't need anyone to convince them to kill Saddam.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not saying anything about the sentence being good or bad as you suggest, I am merely saying that it is irresponsible to try and blame the US for this ruling.

[discost3w]

I dont think he should be hanged or killed...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

we are judging him because he killed around 150 people, dont you think 150 is enough... i think he would suffer WAY more in jail ( droping the soap)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i think bush is doing the same thing at the moment so if we have to hang saddam for this, then we should hand them both and bet on who will live the longest \

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(sorry for mistakes)

[00 Quanta]

I dont think he should be hanged or killed...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

we are judging him because he killed around 150 people, dont you think 150 is enough... i think he would suffer WAY more in jail ( droping the soap)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i think bush is doing the same thing at the moment so if we have to hang saddam for this, then we should hand them both and bet on who will live the longest \

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(sorry for mistakes)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

theres kids on this forum so don't be putting that, also, it was up to the people's idea in Iraq and they chose to hang him. Saddam will deserve which ever death penalty he gets for killing 148 people

[Guest GhostRanger]

I dont think he should be hanged or killed...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

we are judging him because he killed around 150 people, dont you think 150 is enough... i think he would suffer WAY more in jail ( droping the soap)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i think bush is doing the same thing at the moment so if we have to hang saddam for this, then we should hand them both and bet on who will live the longest \

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(sorry for mistakes)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Saddam killed 150 people? If you actually believe that's all he killed, the rest of your opinion on this subject is moot.