How do I know I can rely on my own reason? Because I reason that it's reliable. It's circular logic; you cannot prove the reliability of reason without using reason.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's like saying math is circular logic because you can't prove math without using math.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's true, you can't. Just like the scientific method cannot be proven using the scientific method. Everybody has unfounded beliefs.

It's true, you can't. Just like the scientific method cannot be proven using the scientific method. Everybody has unfounded beliefs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pretty enough as far as words come, but does that sentence actually mean anything? For starters, what is "the scientific method"?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't believe religion has any place in any kind of education except as a tool to understanding our history and our cultures, both past and present. I also believe any democratic society that permits the systemized religiously based education is shooting itself in the foot. A democratic state that allows its youth to be raised to believe rather than understand is in for a world of trouble.

Well I was brought up in a Catholic school myself. I was never forced to believe one religion or another and all the staff were very tolerant. I did eventually begin to question Catholicism one day and gradually drifted away towards Atheism. Which I believe in now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I do not think faith in one particular religion should be taught. Instead, all religions should be taught and students can make their own decisions and form their own arguments.

 

 

 

It's true, you can't. Just like the scientific method cannot be proven using the scientific method. Everybody has unfounded beliefs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually, science is proven by reason. I should have explained myself better. Reason is more basic than religion and science because it is not a set of beliefs. Instead, it is the evaluation of different sets of beliefs. That is why "reason is proven by reason" can be justified, since everything must be proven by reason.

Stuff

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hah, you're such a bitter person, it makes me laugh.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Does religion have a place in schools? Of course, it's a huge part of our culture.

 

Stuff

 

 

 

Hah, you're such a bitter person, it makes me laugh.

Perhaps if you've seen first hand the evils that organised religions can do then you might feel the same.

No I wouldn't. Because I have seen the love that has come out of religion, and I know that there is always going to be a radical group that does horrible stuff, and I accept that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My church is one of the largest churches where I live, with a congregation of around 8,000 people. We are opening up three free medical clinics in our city, and give away at least $200,000 worth of charity supplies a week. Nothing but love comes out of our church, and it's just an awesome place to be, with awesome people.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You just have the wrong idea about it, and I'm sorry.

i wouldnt say that. your community is a good one but there are many others that exclude people because they dont believe (which is kind of what you said)

To be honest there isn't any point in it except raising you grades:P and setting in a sort of discipline to the students(doesn't really work).

 

 

 

I switched religion class with italian this year...

Much of what is taught in Science classes is theory, don't forget that. The Big Bang cannot be proven by scientific method. Neither can macro-evolution (although micro-evolution is a proven fact). The problem is, schools are teaching theory as fact. If one theory is being taught, as many other major theories as possible should be taught.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

NOW! I'm not saying my science teacher should get up in front of my class and read all of Genesis from the Bible. Our class doesn't need to be educated on what the Christians or the Muslims or the Jews or the Cult of Devoted Followers of Blipo believe. What our teachers should be teaching, in addition to evolution and the Big Bang and such, are things like what Creationism is about, and how it is theoretically possibly for a Creator to have done what He did.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Above all, teachers in public schools should make sure they are totally unbiased. No leaning towards Creationism or Evolution or anything else. And they should definately reinforce the idea that it can't be proven.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit: As clarification, Creationism should be taught in science. Only theories should be taught in a Science class. Courses on religion in general, or specific religions, should be taught in an elective course.

 

 

Stuff

 

 

 

Hah, you're such a bitter person, it makes me laugh.

Perhaps if you've seen first hand the evils that organised religions can do then you might feel the same.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The evils that the misinterpretation of some organized religions can do. You're being ridiculous. Atheists do plenty of harm because they don't believe in any form of morality.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The same point could be made about countries. Do you hate the idea of forming a nation because of the evils that forming a nation can cause? Nations go to war against each other and kill innocent people - are you against the idea of nations? Are you going to ignore the fact that it's the nation in the hands of the wrong people - and not the idea of "being a nation" that is the problem like you do with religion?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Face if Merc - you are intolerant towards religion beyond rationality. I bet you don't like how intolerant religions are. I bet you don't like how religions are always trying to force religion down your throat and bother you about. Hey! Guess what your doing with your own secular beliefs? Grow up.

Atheists do plenty of harm because they don't believe in any form of morality.

Thats just rubbish, we have plenty of morals. We just dont claim they were invented by a deity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All I am saying is that religion should be tought when children are slightly older and more able to understand and that I dont like the idea of pure faith schools. Its not an attack on your religion

 

Atheists do plenty of harm because they don't believe in any form of morality.

Thats just rubbish, we have plenty of morals. We just dont claim they were invented by a deity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All I am saying is that religion should be tought when children are slightly older and more able to understand and that I dont like the idea of pure faith schools. Its not an attack on your religion

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. The comment I quoted was an attack on my religion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2. Not all atheists have morals - and some atheists have morals that could be considered "evil' by plenty of people. That's my point. Religion has done evil things - but so have atheists. Your point is ridiculous.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I assume then that you don't like the idea of forming nations because of all the evil they cause as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't respond to your post about when you should teach religion so I don't know why in the world you brought that up. I'm merely pointing out the ridiculousness of saying something so absurdly self-righteous as, "If you had seen all the evils that religion has done firsthand...blah blah blah." You have absolutely no common sense or rationality when you start talking about religion. What a waste of an otherwise good mind.

Much of what is taught in Science classes is theory, don't forget that. The Big Bang cannot be proven by scientific method. Neither can macro-evolution (although micro-evolution is a proven fact). The problem is, schools are teaching theory as fact. If one theory is being taught, as many other major theories as possible should be taught.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

NOW! I'm not saying my science teacher should get up in front of my class and read all of Genesis from the Bible. Our class doesn't need to be educated on what the Christians or the Muslims or the Jews or the Cult of Devoted Followers of Blipo believe. What our teachers should be teaching, in addition to evolution and the Big Bang and such, are things like what Creationism is about, and how it is theoretically possibly for a Creator to have done what He did.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Above all, teachers in public schools should make sure they are totally unbiased. No leaning towards Creationism or Evolution or anything else. And they should definately reinforce the idea that it can't be proven.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit: As clarification, Creationism should be taught in science. Only theories should be taught in a Science class. Courses on religion in general, or specific religions, should be taught in an elective course.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The thing is though, is that doesn't belong in a science class. I can see and agree fully that in, say a history class, you should learn about religions and what they belive, when they started, ect. However, a science class is different.

It was a poor post I admit and I should have constructed a much better post but I coudlnt be bothered to write out a long reply purely to respond to someone saying i'm a "bitter person" without even bothered to argue back my point.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your argument back at me however is also poorly made. Morals (in my opinion) are not divinely created and thus you can not say to a person they do not have morals purely because they do not belong to your church. I dont belive that anyone is "truely" evil no matter what bad stuff they have done, they could have severe mental issues for example but its not because of a lack of religious morals.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some people will argue that we should stop nations forming because they can cause "evil" but i just think thats stupid. Its my opinion that religion is a personal thing and should be kept that way. Church and state should be seperate as should schools and public facing workers. When a policeman goes out on the beat he leave his sexuality, politial preferance and faith back at the police station, he is a neutral person and its neccesary in this world that this happens. I think that if a parent wants to take their child to a faith school then they should pay for it, else children can go to a state school that is free from political and religious bias.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I guess religion is just a really touchy subject with me. I was brought up a Christian by my parents and when I was younger truely belived the stuff that they teach. Now I spend a lot of time reading religious texts from many different faiths and I also read lots of science journals. I just find it crazy that in this day and age when we should be working towards a better future for everyone we are still having petty wars over whos god is right and teaching "intelligent" design in schools in place of biology and physics. Its madness and yet I get very worked up about it. Please dont take my comments personally though, I dont like falling out with people over this. :)

i wouldnt say that. your community is a good one but there are many others that exclude people because they dont believe (which is kind of what you said)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Those that do that are usually a small percentage of any religion, but they are the ones that stick out in people's minds the most...

It was a poor post I admit and I should have constructed a much better post but I coudlnt be bothered to write out a long reply purely to respond to someone saying i'm a "bitter person" without even bothered to argue back my point.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your argument back at me however is also poorly made. Morals (in my opinion) are not divinely created and thus you can not say to a person they do not have morals purely because they do not belong to your church. I dont belive that anyone is "truely" evil no matter what bad stuff they have done, they could have severe mental issues for example but its not because of a lack of religious morals.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't say that. You think my argument is poorly constructed because you don't understand it. My point is that wrong doing happens on BOTH sides. My point isn't that atheists don't have morals, my point is that atheists without morals do evil just like religion can do evil. The point isn't that atheists can't have morals, the point is there is evil happening on both sides.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some people will argue that we should stop nations forming because they can cause "evil" but i just think thats stupid. Its my opinion that religion is a personal thing and should be kept that way. Church and state should be seperate as should schools and public facing workers. When a policeman goes out on the beat he leave his sexuality, politial preferance and faith back at the police station, he is a neutral person and its neccesary in this world that this happens. I think that if a parent wants to take their child to a faith school then they should pay for it, else children can go to a state school that is free from political and religious bias.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That has nothing to do with my point. My point there, which you missed again apparently, is that ANY group can do evil - so saying that you're bitter against religion because of the evil it does, without recognizing the good it has done AND without recognizing the evil that almost every organization or group of people do at some point is just ridiculous. I'm not talking about religion and state at all so I don't know why that is brought up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I guess religion is just a really touchy subject with me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You're right it is but you should learn to be a little more reasonable and tolerant about it - instead of acting like an irrational prat every time someone brings up religion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was brought up a Christian by my parents and when I was younger truely belived the stuff that they teach. Now I spend a lot of time reading religious texts from many different faiths and I also read lots of science journals. I just find it crazy that in this day and age when we should be working towards a better future for everyone we are still having petty wars over whos god is right and teaching "intelligent" design in schools in place of biology and physics. Its madness and yet I get very worked up about it. Please dont take my comments personally though, I dont like falling out with people over this. :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And I have no problem when you post things like this. In fact, I agree that a lot of politicians have hijacked Christianity for their own purposes and are being ridiculous with this intelligent design thing - politicians including my governor.

Much of what is taught in Science classes is theory, don't forget that. The Big Bang cannot be proven by scientific method. Neither can macro-evolution (although micro-evolution is a proven fact). The problem is, schools are teaching theory as fact. If one theory is being taught, as many other major theories as possible should be taught.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Learn what the word "theory" means.

 

Much of what is taught in Science classes is theory, don't forget that. The Big Bang cannot be proven by scientific method. Neither can macro-evolution (although micro-evolution is a proven fact). The problem is, schools are teaching theory as fact. If one theory is being taught, as many other major theories as possible should be taught.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

NOW! I'm not saying my science teacher should get up in front of my class and read all of Genesis from the Bible. Our class doesn't need to be educated on what the Christians or the Muslims or the Jews or the Cult of Devoted Followers of Blipo believe. What our teachers should be teaching, in addition to evolution and the Big Bang and such, are things like what Creationism is about, and how it is theoretically possibly for a Creator to have done what He did.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Above all, teachers in public schools should make sure they are totally unbiased. No leaning towards Creationism or Evolution or anything else. And they should definately reinforce the idea that it can't be proven.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit: As clarification, Creationism should be taught in science. Only theories should be taught in a Science class. Courses on religion in general, or specific religions, should be taught in an elective course.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The thing is though, is that doesn't belong in a science class. I can see and agree fully that in, say a history class, you should learn about religions and what they belive, when they started, ect. However, a science class is different.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You have misread my post. Read the last section again. Creationism is science. I can present you with many books, articles, and websites full of factual information that make good points for and against Creationism and Evolution. They're both plausible theories. And so, they should be taught equally.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Religion, however, shouldn't be taught in any Science class. Possibly a religion elective, but religion doesn't work in a Science class.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Much of what is taught in Science classes is theory, don't forget that. The Big Bang cannot be proven by scientific method. Neither can macro-evolution (although micro-evolution is a proven fact). The problem is, schools are teaching theory as fact. If one theory is being taught, as many other major theories as possible should be taught.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Learn what the word "theory" means.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

theÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâçoÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâçryÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ã¡ /ÃÆââ¬Â¹Ãâ¹Ã¢â¬Â ÃÆýÃâøiÃÆââ¬Â°Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢ri, ÃÆââ¬Â¹Ãâ¹Ã¢â¬Â ÃÆýÃâøÃÆââ¬Â°ÃâêÃÆââ¬Â°Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢ri/ [thee-uh-ree, theer-ee]

 

 

 

ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ãânoun, plural -ries.

 

 

 

2. a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact.

 

 

 

theÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâçoÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâçryÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ã¡ /ÃÆââ¬Â¹Ãâ¹Ã¢â¬Â ÃÆýÃâøiÃÆââ¬Â°Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢ri, ÃÆââ¬Â¹Ãâ¹Ã¢â¬Â ÃÆýÃâøÃÆââ¬Â°ÃâêÃÆââ¬Â°Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢ri/ [thee-uh-ree, theer-ee]

 

 

 

ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ãânoun, plural -ries.

 

 

 

2. a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory#Science

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?t=562502&highlight=

You have misread my post. Read the last section again. Creationism is science. I can present you with many books, articles, and websites full of factual information that make good points for and against Creationism and Evolution. They're both plausible theories. And so, they should be taught equally.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I just read a debate in Time about God vs. Science. The religious man who claimed to support both Evolution and the Big Bang made no mention of Creation. Creation cannot be considered a science, until actual proof is found. It's an hypothesis, and no one has been able to prove it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Christians would call it a postulate, something that we just have to take as truth, with no explanation how.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Atheist's would call it an hypothesis, an educated guess. However, I fail to see the 'educated' part of it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There, I made a post without using the controversial word 'theory'.

Fine. I mis worded it. However, you understand my point. I'm 14, give a guy a break.

Fine. I mis worded it. However, you understand my point. I'm 14, give a guy a break.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Blipo's 14?! :shock:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, and it might also help to mention that the religious man is one of the best scientists in his field.

 

Fine. I mis worded it. However, you understand my point. I'm 14, give a guy a break.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Blipo's 14?! :shock:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes. How old did you think I was?

 

 

Fine. I mis worded it. However, you understand my point. I'm 14, give a guy a break.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Blipo's 14?! :shock:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes. How old did you think I was?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Like...20...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway, religion should not be brought into the classroom. There is no way you can find a teacher who is totally unbiased. In fact, I doubt you'll be able to find anyone who's totally unbiased.