Tradies get paid buckets because there's so a short-fall of them they can chaarge whatever they feel like.

 

 

 

Yes, and that's because the majority of people feel that trade jobs are far too unglamorous. Silly people. If I had the time, I'd go and learn a trade skill, if only to have a guaranteed fall-back career.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Although at the rate it's going, I don't see the demand for male teachers dropping any time soon.

Let's look at this from another perspective. Instead of thinking about "those damn people taking our jobs," let's think about them as individuals. They are often coming from terrible conditions where they can't even support their family in the slightest. Isn't it right, then, for them to make the decision to come over to America, so that their families can survive? In most cases, these are people who are doing the respectable and honorable thing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And when they get here, they take on jobs that are needed, and that if there were no illegal immigrants, most Americans would not be willing to take on. There would be a huge shortage of unskilled workers. Think about the illegal immigrants who you actually know - I'm thinking of a wonderful and beautiful woman who cleaned my facilities in high school. I'm glad she was able to work there and continue working there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Barihawk, this is one of the few times I deeply agree with you (though I always respect you as intelligent :P), and am saddened by other people's answers. I'm just going to quote your solution, because it sounds about right to me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Finally, offer free citizenship classes to all illegals, declaring amnesty. This course will teach them how to find a job, where to learn English, how social security and other benefits work, and how to register for taxes, etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If this is done, it provides an incentive to work towards citizenship, and less motivation for companies to hire illegals for cheap labor. Any costs from the citizenship process will be offset by the wage taxes that the new citizens would pay like everyone else.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's a sad situation. They live in poverty down in Mexico, and come to Texas looking for "the American Way"... often ending up worse then they were. I want them to be helped, but not the way it is going now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well said :D

send them back to mexico

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

that awnser you questtion?

 

 

 

not all illegals are from mexico but sure most of them are, there alot of cubas

 

 

 

and asias that are illegals also

If they want to be American and do American jobs, they should pay American taxes.

If they want to be American and do American jobs, they should pay American taxes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Agreed. But when it's so difficult to become a citizen (seriously, 95% of american citizens could NOT pass the ridiculous citizenship test, and that's not even the hardest part of becoming a citizen), the government makes that impossible. So what we need is to relax the difficulties in becoming a citizen, so that people know in advance that when they come over here, they will have to start paying taxes, but in exchange will have awesome opportunities.

Let's look at this from another perspective. Instead of thinking about "those damn people taking our jobs," let's think about them as individuals. They are often coming from terrible conditions where they can't even support their family in the slightest. Isn't it right, then, for them to make the decision to come over to America, so that their families can survive? In most cases, these are people who are doing the respectable and honorable thing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No it's not. Is it reasonable for them to do so? Yes. But right? No. By coming to America, they are disrespecting the people and the laws of this country that they intend to profit from. That is not right no matter how much pathos you use to spin it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Disrespecting people in order to profit off of them is unjustifiable, and that is exactly what illegal immigrants are doing.

Personally I think unless they help the country, they should be rejected. I like Australia's way, be strict and have a limit. Atm there are too many unemployed immigrants living off the taxpayer's money, fair? I think not.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If they actually bother to get a job and keep by the law, let them stay!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If they live in the country the should:

 

 

 

Pay taxes

 

 

 

Have a job

 

 

 

Behave

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Unless they follow those rules, they aren't allowed.

They break a law the moment they step into the country right? So why is the US mollycoddling criminals?

They break a law the moment they step into the country right? So why is the US mollycoddling criminals?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Because people are eager to blame "society" for criminal activity and have "society" fix the problems that result from individuals consciously breaking the law. It's never the criminal's fault! :wink:

If they want to be American and do American jobs, they should pay American taxes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

True dat.

 

They break a law the moment they step into the country right? So why is the US mollycoddling criminals?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Because people are eager to blame "society" for criminal activity and have "society" fix the problems that result from individuals consciously breaking the law. It's never the criminal's fault! :wink:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is not the same as most other criminal activities. This is a mexican immigrant or a cuban immigrant trying to get what a canadian immigrant or french immigrant can obtain legally.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If the only thing you're worrying about is them breaking the law, then why not try and fix the system so they can move here legally?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If they want to be American and do American jobs, they should pay American taxes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They can't exactly pay taxes if they aren't able to access the immigration process. We're talking about people who didn't even have telephones before they moved here.

This is not the same as most other criminal activities. This is a mexican immigrant or a cuban immigrant trying to get what a canadian immigrant or french immigrant can obtain legally.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If the only thing you're worrying about is them breaking the law, then why not try and fix the system so they can move here legally?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ugh. Are you trying to say it's impossible to obtain an American citizenship? A working visa? It's not. What some people are suggesting is to spoon-fed people who broke federal laws. How laughable is that? Governments set up restrictions and limitations to govern their countries. What illegal immigrants are doing is undermining the authority imposed upon the country. What rights do they have to live there? I'll tell you - nothing.

 

 

 

Illegal immigrants came in the country "legally" will do the s*** job where no one likes to do (farming, plumbing, all the manual work.)

 

 

 

Farming is not a "s***" job, tardhat. It is a perfectly fine profession.

 

They break a law the moment they step into the country right? So why is the US mollycoddling criminals?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Because people are eager to blame "society" for criminal activity and have "society" fix the problems that result from individuals consciously breaking the law. It's never the criminal's fault! :wink:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Or maybe *gasp* there is a problem with the law! The law was written by humans and is thus imperfect. And we should improve it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If such a huge proportion of residents are criminals, doesn't that show that there is a problem? Especially when the laws are then selectively enforced in a manner that includes much bias and corruption...

 

 

 

Ugh. Are you trying to say it's impossible to obtain an American citizenship? A working visa?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yup. It is pretty much impossible for the common Mexican to obtain a US work visa.

 

 

They break a law the moment they step into the country right? So why is the US mollycoddling criminals?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Because people are eager to blame "society" for criminal activity and have "society" fix the problems that result from individuals consciously breaking the law. It's never the criminal's fault! :wink:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Or maybe *gasp* there is a problem with the law! The law was written by humans and is thus imperfect. And we should improve it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If such a huge proportion of residents are criminals, doesn't that show that there is a problem? Especially when the laws are then selectively enforced in a manner that includes much bias and corruption...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think the fact that the law is selectively enforced is a huge problem - but no, I don't agree with the idea that anyone can come here absolutely whenever they want.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, the fact that our border control isn't nearly what is should be and therefore millions of people have been able to sneak over the border doesn't indicate that the law itself is imperfect - as you try to conclude.

 

 

 

I think the fact that the law is selectively enforced is a huge problem - but no, I don't agree with the idea that anyone can come here absolutely whenever they want.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

People wouldn't need to cross the border on foot if they had the opportunity to work here legally.

 

 

 

 

I think the fact that the law is selectively enforced is a huge problem - but no, I don't agree with the idea that anyone can come here absolutely whenever they want.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

People wouldn't need to cross the border on foot if they had the opportunity to work here legally.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And we'd be able to let more people in if we weren't being overpopulated by people crossing the border illegally.

 

 

They break a law the moment they step into the country right? So why is the US mollycoddling criminals?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Because people are eager to blame "society" for criminal activity and have "society" fix the problems that result from individuals consciously breaking the law. It's never the criminal's fault! :wink:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Or maybe *gasp* there is a problem with the law! The law was written by humans and is thus imperfect. And we should improve it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If such a huge proportion of residents are criminals, doesn't that show that there is a problem? Especially when the laws are then selectively enforced in a manner that includes much bias and corruption...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Huge proportion of residents are criminals---Check

 

 

 

Laws are selectively enforced---Check

 

 

 

Much bias and corruption---Check

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey! Fits perfectly, what do you know! ...Wait... That was Mexico's card. #-o So whay are they coming over here again, if it's so bad?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Has anyone stopped and thought what the impact to the government will be if all illegal immigrants suddenly became eligible voters? It happened in California recently as Grey Davis tripped out of office, and is still causing huge problems. The Terminator became Governator, those that didn't pay taxes voted themselves money from those that payed taxes, and Hollywood got a LOT bigger. Well, okay, maybe the Governator thing worked out :wink:

its all those damn mexicans... mexicans have tons of babies... 12k$ out of tax per kid... this ruining america (thank you mexicans... stay in your own damn country)

 

 

 

And we'd be able to let more people in if we weren't being overpopulated by people crossing the border illegally.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...We are "overpopulated" by border crossers because we have a horrible visa system towards Mexicans.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Has anyone stopped and thought what the impact to the government will be if all illegal immigrants suddenly became eligible voters?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If these immigrants are given the opportunity to become legal, they would have to wait about 10-20 years, going from work visa to green card to citizenship before they can vote.

If these immigrants are given the opportunity to become legal, they would have to wait about 10-20 years, going from work visa to green card to citizenship before they can vote.

 

 

 

In California, when you are given the application for a driver's license, you are also given a voter's application. This is because having a driver's license makes you eligible to vote in California. You need no other form of identification. When Grey Davis (the Governor before Schwartzennegar)left office, he enacted several protocols which he undoubtedly hoped would ruin California's economy. Among those was one where anyone could get a driver's license, with no required form of identification. No birth certificate, social security card, no passport required. Until Schwartzennegar entered office and ended this protocol, the DMV (Department of Motor Vehicles) was swamped with-you guessed it-illegal immegrants. My point? Illegal immegrants care about this country less than you care about a piece of asphalt. They only want to walk all over it.

 

 

 

 

And we'd be able to let more people in if we weren't being overpopulated by people crossing the border illegally.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...We are "overpopulated" by border crossers because we have a horrible visa system towards Mexicans.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...Because they come over without Visas so we don't waste our time with them. Mexico's government shoes nothing but contempt towards our immigration laws and instead of fixing domestic problems, they encourage their citizens to come here so they don't have to worry about it. Why would we open more Visas up to a country with that kind of attitude? Mexico could fix their problems if their government wasn't so corrupt but they choose to pass the buck to us because they know they can. Until they are willing to cooperate - I don't see any reason for us to cooperate with them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Giving out Visas wouldn't decrease the amount of people crossing over the border (which is currently too many - even if they all had Visas) - all it would do would make some of them legal, and the rest illegal. Mexico will not cooperate with us to help control the situation, so why should we give ANYONE Visas? It won't help the problem - all it will do is fill all the Visas our country can afford to give out to Mexicans, and ignore the rest of the world.

Have any of you relise maybe it was US's fault? All the years letting immagrants in, offering the "American Dream" to all, and suddenly closing it and people still want to come in.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Its like going to a poverty village. There is 300 people living there and you come and bring 100 loafs of bread. You keep giving it to them they're happy until you run out. The people want more and come to you trying to get some.

 

 

 

(a good example is in Band of Brothers chapter 9 or 10. The one that they found the Consentration Camps and gave food to the poor people. When they were forced to stop the prisoners wanted more.)

Have any of you relise maybe it was US's fault? All the years letting immagrants in, offering the "American Dream" to all, and suddenly closing it and people still want to come in.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe if you read the thread you would see that some people do share your opinion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Its like going to a poverty village. There is 300 people living there and you come and bring 100 loafs of bread. You keep giving it to them they're happy until you run out. The people want more and come to you trying to get some.

 

 

 

(a good example is in Band of Brothers chapter 9 or 10. The one that they found the Consentration Camps and gave food to the poor people. When they were forced to stop the prisoners wanted more.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, it's not anything like that. A better example would be this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You have lots of bread. Everyday you go out to every group of homeless people you can find and give them some bread. You realize that you've given away so much bread that it would unwise to continue giving out that much at a time, so you start to ration your bread-giving a little. All of a sudden, one of the groups that sleeps outside of your house realizes that they can just steal your bread so they start doing that. Then, people like you think to themselves, "well it's out fault because we gave them our bread in the first place when we didn't have to." Ridiculous.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's our bread and we'll do with it what we please. Anyone who steals it needs to be properly punished. Any government that supports stealing our bread when it could give bread to its citizens should be treated like an enemy.