private schools: for or against?

[Guest GhostRanger]

i am against private schools because they dont let you wear what you want to. What you wear is a way of expressing yourself, thats why alot of people would like not to go there. But, I do disagree with the one statement that everyone should have the same education, its kind of a socialist view, if everyone is supposed to have the same IQ, same living conditions, same everything, there is no will in the community to succeed or do better than anyone else. It slowly degrades society, just ask russia lol

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They let you wear whatever you want because they don't force you to go to their school. If you don't like the uniform - you don't have to go there.

[1_man_army]

 

 

 

Private schools reinforce already disparate opportunities between privileged and underprivileged groups.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Still, if nothing is done to make public schools better, why should everyone get a poor education?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So basically what your saying is that poor people have less of a right to an educatation than anyone else?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No matter what you say. In real life that's what matters.

 

 

 

Poor people DO get less health, education, entertainment, etc. You saying they have the right to get good education isn't going to change that.

 

 

 

My point here is: why should everyone get poor education when there are people who can get better education, and perhearps figure out a way to give everyone good education in the future?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some people are naturally more intelligent than others and given an equal playing field this would be reflected to a greater extent by a persons grades. Unfortunatly high school grades are slowly begining to reflect the quality of the school the student has attended.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Equality in schooling would better reflect the skills of a student rather than the ability of schools to force-feed limited syllabus specific information to students at the expense of teaching actual subjects.

[Jaakilju]

I'm all for them. People can pay for better health services, better food, better dental care, who's to say education is any different? Paying for an education is no different to pay for any other government-required service, it just depends on what you want your money to go to.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

 

 

 

I'll say it once again to you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Better food, better dental care and health services don't affect the rest of your life.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you're from a poor family, should it be so, that you can never even get to a better job? Never get to be 'rich' by your own merits?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And to that one guy who said that thing about communism. What's so totally wrong with communism? And btw, CCCP was a totalitarian country with a bit of badly managed socialism in it.

 

 

 

The Nordic countries have the highest level of education, and they're the most succesful welfare(read socialism/communism) states in the world.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Read that twice and try to comprehend.

[assassin_696]

And to that one guy who said that thing about communism. What's so totally wrong with communism?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It values the welfare of the state over the welfare of the individual, and the way that it is implicated often leads to terror methods and a select few gaining immense power with the rest not given the chance to ever rise beyond their caste. Ironic that.

[FuBai]

 

And to that one guy who said that thing about communism. What's so totally wrong with communism?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It values the welfare of the state over the welfare of the individual, and the way that it is implicated often leads to terror methods and a select few gaining immense power with the rest not given the chance to ever rise beyond their caste. Ironic that.

 

 

 

Don't let him turn it into a debate about socialism. There are other threads about that.

[assassin_696]

 

 

And to that one guy who said that thing about communism. What's so totally wrong with communism?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It values the welfare of the state over the welfare of the individual, and the way that it is implicated often leads to terror methods and a select few gaining immense power with the rest not given the chance to ever rise beyond their caste. Ironic that.

 

 

 

Don't let him turn it into a debate about socialism. There are other threads about that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fair enough. So to respond to his other comments. No it's not fair, but as proven in a lot of schools in rough areas, it's not necessarily a matter of funding or teaching, it's a matter of the kids believing in themselves. I'm presuming you live in America, the land where if you really believe in yourself and work hard, you can achieve anything.

[mad4u689]

I'm presuming you live in America, the land where if you really believe in yourself and work hard and were lucky enough to be born into privilege, you can achieve anything.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited your statement to make it more accurate :D

[assassin_696]

 

I'm presuming you live in America, the land where if you really believe in yourself and work hard and were lucky enough to be born into privilege, you can achieve anything.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited your statement to make it more accurate :D

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's more accurate, but still, there are lots of cases of kids who were born into terrible social poverty and difficulties, but managed to rise out of it and really make something of their lives. You don't have to be born into privelege to succeed, it just helps (sometimes).

[1_man_army]

 

 

I'm presuming you live in America, the land where if you really believe in yourself and work hard and were lucky enough to be born into privilege, you can achieve anything.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited your statement to make it more accurate :D

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's more accurate, but still, there are lots of cases of kids who were born into terrible social poverty and difficulties, but managed to rise out of it and really make something of their lives.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Obviously there are exceptions to every rule. However, they are exactly that exceptions who, regardless of their plight, would have suceeded in life. Unfortunately there are others who because of their situation don't achieve what they potentially could have done if they had been born into better circumstances (this being the far more common scenario).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

----------------------

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Unrelated Note - I think in posts regarding wealth, class and sociological issues there should be some sort of prerequisite where you post your/your families socio-economic status.

 

 

 

I realise it completely unfeasable and verges on intrusive but it would be a great way of showing everybody's bias.

[Biabf]

I go to the same school as you mike :P

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you have the money, it's worth it. Mike will know that the school I go to is very expensive but you can good stuff like good sports centre, lots of playing gfields and good equipment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's only worth it if you can afford it. I wouldn't strain yourself to go to private school. I've heard of some people cutting down on stuff to go to private schools.

[Guest XplsvBam]

why not both? I think that having both is exceptional. My school claims to be private but they get money from the state so they are techiniquelly a public school. I'm not really sure how that works but it has way more opportunities then my old highschool (public).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Private schools are for some people and public schools are for some people. To each his own.

[dangeresque]

I dont agree with any of the againsts. Good grades in public school dont mean as much as good grades in private school. Also public schools are all diferent just like the private ones, so an equal education is hard to provide. I myself go to private school btw. I live in the province with the second worst public schools in the country, in the city with possibly the second highest crime rate per capita in the country. I pay for a decent education, and a better social atmosphere where I dont fear for my safty, and dont get ridiculed because im good at science and math. Also my class is smaller than 33 people. They public schools have to teach to the dumbest student. maby more later

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I go to school in a inner city school but there is no crime in our school, Nobody ever fears for their saftey, and nobody gets ridiculed because they are good at math or science. And all of my classes are less than 33 people...(even though that might be because we have a huge shcool..)

 

 

 

Oh and btw we have a very nice, large, clean school.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Granted htough that your school district sounds alot worse than mine does...

[thedepressedsquirrel]

These pros and cons have no meaning. Schools in the US differ widely. There are bad public schools, and there are bad private schools.

[Jaakilju]

 

 

I'm presuming you live in America, the land where if you really believe in yourself and work hard and were lucky enough to be born into privilege, you can achieve anything.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited your statement to make it more accurate :D

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's more accurate, but still, there are lots of cases of kids who were born into terrible social poverty and difficulties, but managed to rise out of it and really make something of their lives. You don't have to be born into privelege to succeed, it just helps (sometimes).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, I'm not from America. I'm from Finland. A terribly welfare state, in which I hate to live! I only get best education, free health care, free defntal care 'till 18, free everything. And we don't mind the taxes. All for equality and equal chances as much as possible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And yes, everybody CAN succeed in America, if they HAPPEN to be LUCKY to be born in a priviledged family. (Of course you can succeed if your poor, but it's a lot harder 'cause you can't even get good enough education.)

[mad4u689]

 

 

 

Unrelated Note - I think in posts regarding wealth, class and sociological issues there should be some sort of prerequisite where you post your/your families socio-economic status.

 

 

 

I realise it completely unfeasable and verges on intrusive but it would be a great way of showing everybody's bias.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hmm. I think this is a good idea, but as with everything, it must be taken with a grain of salt.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I come from a background of a lot of privilege. I got a great public school education, and was pretty much force-fed by the system into a private four year college. My high school experience was fantastic, and my college experience even more so. HOWEVER, I'm finally beginning to understand that not everyone is as lucky as I have been. I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's possible to overcome your biases, and I encourage everyone on tip.it to think critically about their own hidden assumptions and biases that they just take for granted.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(i.e. "Anyone could just self-educate on wikipedia and other internet resources if they wanted, from public libraries!" No, some people don't have the time because they're working two jobs while getting a crappy high school education just to help support their family.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I definitely didn't start thinking critically about my privilege until I got to college. I used to hate political correctness (because that's the cool thing to do), and I used to feel "above" those who lived in inner cities, never considering associating or becoming friends with "such people" who often even commit *gasp* crimes!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I encourage everyone to realize what they take for granted - all the power dynamics embedded into our institutions of law and education that help them get further ahead without even realizing it - and then do what is in their power to try to right the system. Don't start with a defensive attitude. Really question yourself :D I'm still in the process, but I feel much more aware.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Once you've examined your own privilege critically, do take action. For example, I'm going to be leading a math workshop in a prison next semester, because most people who are in prison have never had the same opportunities to learn math that I have. When they get out of prison, having basic mathematical knowledge is a skill necessary for many job markets, so that they can be rehabilitated into society, breaking out of the cycle and not having to resort to crime again. It's just a small step, but lots of small steps will bring about worldwide change, I hope :D

[justin_m23]

i wouldnt go to a private school, the conditions of these schools in my area are pathetic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In Australia, the majority of government funding is given to private schools, yet public (or state) schools still produce far better results on average (John Howard ftl).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

These private schools rake in millions each year from student fees and government funding but almost none of it is spent for the benefit of the students. It all goes to the pockets of the teachers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The students arent any different either. No matter where you go there is always going to be a trouble. But it seems that the drug issue this place seems to have is alot worse in private schools, as they have the money to spend on things like that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

but thats just my area :

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

oh and pompey, i expect those cookies to be sent within 10 working days :pray:

[warri0r45]

x_giva wrote:

 

 

 

and lacking in religious education.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I hope you mean studing it and not preaching it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

amen brother! lol :lol: :thumbsup: but seriously, i agree

[Guest]

I went to a state school, which coincidentally does a lot better than the vast majority of private schools.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Granted, it was also a selective institution.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The main attraction of private schools is, I guess, better teachers, since the good ones tend to get snapped up by the higher pay. Still, I wouldn't want to teach at a private school here, mainly because of the high proportion of snobby kids and parents who think their children deserve leniency and privileges beyond education for the simple fact that they pay more money.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm all for private schools because public schools are: corrupt (immoral), too crime filled, and lacking in religious education.

 

 

 

Well, I wouldn't know about you, but private schools have an equal tendency to produce idiots and sociopaths as public schools.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

WRONG! I know as a fact (much more than you would ever know) by going to the Private School which the Labor Party over here in Aus, always picks on during election time; that the media over exaggerates on anything bad that the Private Schools do just to get a good story for themselves. Far worse is going on in Public Schools which I know is a fact, from Past experiences and hearing others talk about such happenings. And if anything bad happens in a private school it is straight to the media, for them to make a huge fuss over.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

By the way there may be a few snobs in Private Schools here and there but most of the other people are just good genuine Aussies who have hard working parents who give up alot to send their children to great schools for better education, facilities etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh and if I could also place another argument on the side of those who support Private School Education. If you think about it, my parents are paying for the people's kids who go to Public Schools through them paying tax. And they still want to whine about having Private Schools. :roll:

[megakiller32]

 

 

 

 

Private schools reinforce already disparate opportunities between privileged and underprivileged groups.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Still, if nothing is done to make public schools better, why should everyone get a poor education?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So basically what your saying is that poor people have less of a right to an educatation than anyone else?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No matter what you say. In real life that's what matters.

 

 

 

Poor people DO get less health, education, entertainment, etc. You saying they have the right to get good education isn't going to change that.

 

 

 

My point here is: why should everyone get poor education when there are people who can get better education, and perhearps figure out a way to give everyone good education in the future?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some people are naturally more intelligent than others and given an equal playing field this would be reflected to a greater extent by a persons grades. Unfortunatly high school grades are slowly begining to reflect the quality of the school the student has attended.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Equality in schooling would better reflect the skills of a student rather than the ability of schools to force-feed limited syllabus specific information to students at the expense of teaching actual subjects.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Its why they give out Scholarships sorry, i needed to make that big and bold, because nobody realised :-k

[FuBai]

The argument seems to be not that we should remove public schools but make state schools better?

[Kwisatz]

You know, I don't like private schools. Maybe it's because my mother went to one and she's the most judgemental, illogical person I know. Maybe it's because all of the private schools around here breed a false sense of superiority, in a social, economic, and educational sense. Maybe it's because everybody I know except for maybe two people who go to private school are intolerant, spoiled, delusioned idiots. Maybe it's because there are four times (this is statistically accurate) more drug users in the private schools around here that can afford weed they buy with daddy's money than in my school.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't know what it is. Personally, with all of the AP programs and such available at my school, I like it the way it is. I only with it was a bit more diverse, ethnically and socially, rather than being 50% white prep, 30% scene, and 20% everything else.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On another note, I think that if you apply yourself and play your cards right you can get just as good an education in a public school as in a private one. You have a terrible teacher? Take initiative and find a tutor, or teach yourself what you don't understand. Not challenging enough? Then find something that is on your own time. To me, I can either go somewhere with elitists and have my parents pay thousands of dollars in tuition, or I could go somewhere a bit more representative of the real world and not have all of my academic needs spoon-fed to me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Which would you choose?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

**EDIT: Keep in mind also that just because you pay for a private education doesn't mean you don't pay for a public one as well. If you pay taxes, you are paying for a public education. Why would you want to pay for two educations and receive one? Analagously, the argument that "you pay for it so they do what you want" no longer holds true for private institutions - you can get lots of reasonable stuff done that wouldn't normally be allowed in a public school if you are a) nice or B) politely mention that your tax dollars pay the counselor's salary, and it'd be nice if they could transfer their child into another class because the Chemistry teacher is inept.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On a separate note, it angers me when inept people fail tests, study by rote memorization, kiss the teacher's butt until they get to retake it, and then get commended for being such a good student. To me, a good student is somebody that teaches themselves how to figure things out. Somebody that cross-references questions on a test when they don't know the answer or knows how to use their resources quickly and effeciently is a better student than somebody with a 4.0 that needs to tape record the study material and sleep with it. You shouldn't need an acronym to remember stuff; 75% of the time, there's some kind of common convention to the material that you're learning, and you should be able to learn one thing and apply it to many things, like word prefixes and suffixes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think I could get a 4.0 if I wanted to, but that would take up even more of my time. 3.7 unweighted is good enough for me.

[Darkluniux]

100% for.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My family is not rich, but my mother does many sacrificies in order to give me a good education. In my case, i study in a private school with good friends and those things, but in a block there is a public school i hope it gets destroyed by a flying saucer, why? Because it is full of son of criminals in liberty, it is full with the scourge of the insecurity, and full of people that dosnt want to study, just pickpocket or rob people, when the student of the private school walk to their homes may be attacked (like myself) by that scourge.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of course, not all people studying in apublic school are bad (thanks to god), for example, there is many applicated people what needs a better grad eof education, the grade a private school brings. For my, the public and private schools must keep, because the private is ever a good shield against dirty little criminals.

[1_man_army]

 

 

 

 

 

Private schools reinforce already disparate opportunities between privileged and underprivileged groups.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Still, if nothing is done to make public schools better, why should everyone get a poor education?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So basically what your saying is that poor people have less of a right to an educatation than anyone else?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No matter what you say. In real life that's what matters.

 

 

 

Poor people DO get less health, education, entertainment, etc. You saying they have the right to get good education isn't going to change that.

 

 

 

My point here is: why should everyone get poor education when there are people who can get better education, and perhearps figure out a way to give everyone good education in the future?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some people are naturally more intelligent than others and given an equal playing field this would be reflected to a greater extent by a persons grades. Unfortunatly high school grades are slowly begining to reflect the quality of the school the student has attended.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Equality in schooling would better reflect the skills of a student rather than the ability of schools to force-feed limited syllabus specific information to students at the expense of teaching actual subjects.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Its why they give out Scholarships sorry, i needed to make that big and bold, because nobody realised :-k

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry could you quote me the percentage of the entire private school population that is there via Scholarships clever clogs? Im willing to bet it is less than 20% if not less than that.

[Ss_J9_Goten]

 

 

 

In Australia, the majority of government funding is given to private schools, yet public (or state) schools still produce far better results on average (John Howard ftl).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

These private schools rake in millions each year from student fees and government funding but almost none of it is spent for the benefit of the students. It all goes to the pockets of the teachers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think it's the other way round. I'm pretty sure private get $4000 per student and public get $8000 per student.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your second statement is also untrue. At the school I go to most of the money from fees goes into building facilities. In the last 3-4 years, my school has built a library/computer/study area, a hall and are currently building a gymnasium. Each project cost several million dollars. I hardly think a gymnasium is going to fit into a teacher's pocket :wink:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Totally unfair, you're parents shouldn't have an effect on your possibilities in life, everybody should have equal chances.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I really don't agree with that. Let's, hypothetically speaking, take that to be law. Parents cannot have an effect on your possibilities in life whatsoever. Alright, so they can't put you in a school, because that's having an effect on your possibilities in life. They can't give you advice on what to do in life, because that's affecting your possibilities. See what I'm getting at?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you read all that, thank god this wasn't for nothing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I read it. \

 

 

 

And no, I'm not really seeing what you're getting, no, not at all.

 

 

 

Giving advice to children is not something that'll drastically change something in the kids life, and that and public/private-school discussion is not in any way comparable. I think it is totally wrong in every sence that someone succees 'better' at life because his/her parents happened to be rich. The kid had nothing to do with it, so he should just be equal to everyone else, at least in education. And btw, I don't think everyone that goes to a private school is a rich brat, just a way to get posts. :mrgreen:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I firmly believe everyone should be equal regardless what their parents/someone else/ did for them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In my opinion, private/public schools just make the gap between rich/poor people wider. And someone earlier compared this with steaks, but that is just idiotic. Having a steak doesn't effect the rest of your life, or chances of getting a job. Going to a private school (usually) does.

 

 

 

Get some frickin' arguments.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Finnish 15-year-olds score first in the industrial world on comparative tests of their academic abilities."

 

 

 

- Washington Post http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/05/AR2005080502015_3.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And Finland doesn't have any private schools, only public. All free.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let the record show that I am a nit-picker.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are good and bad public schools, just as there are good and bad private schools. If everybody should have equal education, then everybody should have equal jobs, health care, etc., because each of those affect your life. Which would mean there would be no point in schooling, as everybody would be considered equals, even though we know not everybody is equal. Or at least in brain power.

[BlueTear]

Let the record show that I am a nit-picker.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are good and bad public schools, just as there are good and bad private schools. If everybody should have equal education, then everybody should have equal jobs, health care, etc., because each of those affect your life. Which would mean there would be no point in schooling, as everybody would be considered equals, even though we know not everybody is equal. Or at least in brain power.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

See, here's where those of us who like the whole concept of democracy start objecting. Private schools, in the manner they work in most of your respective countries, provide education not based on the intelligence, willingness to learn nor ambition of the student. They provide education based on how much money your parents have to spend on it. Which sort of throws the whole "all men are born equal" out of the window.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have no problem with spending extra money on students that benefit from it, whether it's because they have a handicap that makes regular schooling difficult for them or because regular schooling isn't challenging enough for because they're plain smarter or more ambitious. But when the level of funds going into your education is decided by accident of birth... As Mad put it, it's a form of classism.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That being said, I have no fundamental problem with schools in the regime of someone other than the state, as long there's a rigorous quality control to ensure the level of education is on par with what the elected politicans have decided should be taught, and a system in which the wealth of your parents isn't the factor that decides whether you get to go there.