Communism.

[issy2]

Righto. Just spoke to my dad and apparently communism is where everyone in the country or whatever is Equal. But then, he said, the government ends up with a ridiculous amount of power. But isn't that just a result of communism, as opposed to pure communism?

 

 

 

While we're on the topic can someone explain what communism is in more detail and why the government would end up in complete, repressive control. (This is going by what my dad said to me, so I wouldn't be too assumptious.)

 

 

 

What does everyone have against communism?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just interested. Please, no Wiki links. I can't decipher all that waffle talk. So, if someone could basically just tell me WHAT THE HECK communism actually is, in simple English. And answer these two questions - how would the government end up in complete control? (Doesn't make sense to me) and what does everyone have against communism? Help needed, thanks!

 

 

 

And while we're at it... what's capitalism?

[Intarweb]

Communism basically establishes equality by all people by throwing away ideas of ownership. In a Communist state, no one would own anything, including property, and everyone would work for the common good.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The only time communism has ever been put into effect "successfully" has been when a dictator decides to make the country it governs communistic. However, the dictator doesn't want to give up its control and so it stays the "leader" - and the effect is that under the guise of "communism," the government takes control of everything.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Capitalism is an economic system. It establishes anywhere from free to a mostly free market, such as the United States. Capitalism is often seen as the opposite of communism because capitalism is all about doing business yourself, and therefore owning things, whereas communism is about no ownership. Capitalism basically just abolishes government-owned businesses and relies on the entire market to be run by the people - either privately or corporately.

[kido14]

If everyone made the same amount of money no one would have any incentive to do things like discover a cure for AIDS or anything like that.

[Viktorkrum77]

Communism is the lack of any class system. Everyone is equal, there is no money. But jobs are pre-chosen, and you get rations, so if you, for example, have to eat more, than you're out of luck.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It never lasts, because eventually a class system forms. Like, for example, when the farmer realizes the doctor gets the same thing as he does, but his work is easier, and so on and so fourth. And like when the people realize the government has all the power, and is supposed to be equal.

[Intarweb]

And like when the people realize the government has all the power, and is supposed to be equal.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That really is the heart of the problem. Communism doesn't last because it never actually exists. Communism is just a fluff word that dictators can use. They still own everything and, more importantly, everyone - but they can convince the people that everyone is "equal."

[Lionheart_0]

Everyone has explained communism basically.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In theory, it is a perfect lifestyle because everyone is equal, gets equal things. But greed is what ruins it. The leader becomes greedy, and gets more then everyone else. If greed did not exist, communism works.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for the fact that the people doing more have no incentive, thats bull. If a scientist has the ability and the tools to get a cure for AIDs, why the hell would they not Curing the world is better then any amount of money.

[harryp0tt3rules]

Communism in its perfect forum is completely equal, we have never seen that happen in the world.

[Viktorkrum77]

While we're on the topic, how does everyone feel about socialism?

[issy2]

But surely, if everyone is equal, there wouldn't be a government at all...

[Intarweb]

But surely, if everyone is equal, there wouldn't be a government at all...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ideally you're correct, but that's not realistic.

[Viktorkrum77]

But surely, if everyone is equal, there wouldn't be a government at all...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, there has to be someone to reinforce everything. And see, that's the core of the problem, as someone else mentioned already.

[indy500fan]

While we're on the topic, how does everyone feel about socialism?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I feel the same about Socialism as I do about Communism, both redistribute wealth according to "need" and not according to ability. Capitalism (laissez faire) gives you complete freedom, you only get what you earn.

[BlueTear]

But surely, if everyone is equal, there wouldn't be a government at all...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

AFAIK, most communism regime's - at the start at the least - claim to be transitionary temporary affairs that are to be abolished once the transition to full communism is complete. So far, no state has ever managed to get past that stage, 'cause hey, no "transitionary government" has been willing to give up the power once it has it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On top of that; Communism does not abolish the idea of ownership per se, just the idea of indivudal ownership. Everyone owns everything. Everyone works in their field (which could very well be chosen) and they are all cared for by the state, equally. The function of a doctor within a society is as important as waste disposal, or say, plumbing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Key problems; First of all, the lack of regulation on who does what. Adam Smith noted centuries ago that the market can adjust who does what; If there is no need for shoemakers, a shoemaker needs to find something else to do. Same goes for production. In a system run by the market shoes are produced to meet the demand. In a planned economy as in a communist state, the state decides how many shoes are produced. How many doctors are trained (The Soviet Union did this with five year plans IIRC). If you miscalculate, which you're bound to do when you're trying to predict every single need of an entire society, you have a problem. In a market economy, that problem adjusts itself.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I feel the same about Socialism as I do about Communism, both redistribute wealth according to "need" and not according to ability. Capitalism (laissez faire) gives you complete freedom, you only get what you earn.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All of your life you've dreamt about becoming a profession. You've good grades for it, you feel you know what your getting yourself into. But neither you nor your parents can pay for the education. Or you could, but then you fell seriously ill and when to pay for the medical expenses you had to spend all the money.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Where's your freedom now?

[Satenza]

Pure communism is a silly pipe dream, socities need leaders and a lack of having one always produces a ilegitimate leader which plunges the country into repression and a night watchman state which is good for no one but the leader(s).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However it's general idea from Marx mixed with ideas from people like Mill have contributed to the system of government we currently live in, and the majority of the western world share. We have contraints but also negative freedom to an extent.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pure communism never works, and in the end always becomes a society of indoctrination and massive restraint like that of Rousseau's ideal society. Which is mainly everyone beleiving that they are together and equal but in the end are dictated in many forms by a group of people. Communism i think is said to be a theory for the Gods as the makers of the system overestimated the nature of man. By a long shot.

[indy500fan]

All of your life you've dreamt about becoming a profession. You've good grades for it, you feel you know what your getting yourself into. But neither you nor your parents can pay for the education. Or you could, but then you fell seriously ill and when to pay for the medical expenses you had to spend all the money.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Where's your freedom now?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You spend every moment you can trying to get into that profession. No one could stop you. You still have your freedom. Freedom doesn't guarantee success. Nothing is just going to be handed to you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If someone else pays for your education, what happens to their freedom? You are taking the products of their labour from them, and use the products for yourself. Sounds exactly like slavery to me.

[unknownmasterofnothing]

If you've watched charmed the tv show, the utopia is the same idea. Trying to have communism leads to a governemtn controlling everything, trying to make everyone equal. People do different jobs but recieve around the same pay. Property is divided and land. It makes everyone relatively poor. In china they have a different form of communism that embodies captialism. The purest communism, there is no dictatorship and everyone is equal.

[Satenza]

I think we have too much freedom to be honest, i personally believe in the perfect world that Postive Freedom would be best for everyone. This is where you are forced into doing what you as a rational person would do. For example if you had an exam the next day, the rational thing to do would stay in and revise. Using this concept of postive freedom you would be forced to do this. Under Negative Freedom we are free to self-destruct ourselves.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, i doubt if i actually lived in those circumstances i would be happy at the time. I'd much rather go out with my friends but in the long run it'd do me good to stay in and revise. I also agree with Plato and in the perfect world we should be led by a Philisopher King as a ruler as a pose to general selected people who go through no training.

[assassin_696]

Wow, I feel a big debate coming on...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Interestingly, a true communist state has never been established anywhere in the word. The idea behind communism, simply, is that the workers (proletariate) rise up and seize power from the government, establishing a temporary vanguard politburo style government to establish the communist state. After that the vanguard would dissolve as it would no longer be necessary and everyone would live equally.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No "communist" state has ever got beyond that vanguard government, partly because you'd need nearly every other country to become communist as well for it to work (not gonna happen) and partly because when the vanguard leaders get there, they find they actually quite like the power and control. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll go into my personal thoughts on it later.

[BlueTear]

You spend every moment you can trying to get into that profession. No one could stop you. You still have your freedom. Freedom doesn't guarantee success. Nothing is just going to be handed to you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can't conjure money from thin air no matter how much you'd like to. The idea that everyone, no matter the economic conditions they were born to - or changes to their economic status due to accidents or illness - can do anything they want if they just "put some effort into it" is nothing but myth.

 

 

 

If someone else pays for your education, what happens to their freedom? You are taking the products of their labour from them, and use the products for yourself. Sounds exactly like slavery to me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

First of all, a slave owns nothing, and is owned by someone else. Handing off a portion of the fruits of your labour - and since socialism tends to include money for the poor as well, you're not very likely to be starved by these taxes - to be used on providing the freedom of choice to fellow citizens is not slavery. Partly because when you grow up, after having gotten that nice Master's degree, or become a doctor, you pay the same taxes. You could see it as if you're actually paying for your own, past, education.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not saying it's perfect system, but a IMHO, a socialist democracy offers every citizen more freedom than a fully capitalistic system does - although a fully capitalistic system offers more freedom to the rich.

[Duke_Freedom]

Communism in itself, as an ideology, is not wrong, but the problem is that, in practice, it just doesn't work.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In my opinion, the most fundamental issue of communism is that it assumes that everyone in the world wants the best for everyone and that it assumes everyone is willing to participate in that. In other words, the fundamental idea of communism is that it assumes that everyone in the world is "good".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need." is one of the underlying thoughts regarding equality in communism. Objectively speaking, it seems fair.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, in reality, not everyone in the world is willing to do his fair share of that thought. Not everyone in the world is "good" and that in itself is one of the most fundamental downfalls of communism as it will result in:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

- A small group of people seizing control of the country for a variety of reasons. They more or less eventually turn the communistic system into a dictatorship.

 

 

 

- A lack of motivation to work hard because there is no real reward (for yourself) by doing so. This ensures inefficiency and low productivity levels. This also creates unfairness in itself, as people who don't do their best won't be punished for not doing their best.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Capitalism, on the other hand, focusses extremely on the "invidual". However, in a way, capitalism also fundamentally rewards and promotes egoism and inequality by doing so.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In practice, capitalism has it's own problems as well. They generally manifest themselves as huge economic and political scandals, like Enron for example.

[Satenza]

I think to sum up my thoughts of communism

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Man is not good enough for it.

[rocketman089]

I would like everyone to know i'm 100% capitalist.

[apinagez]

- A lack of motivation to work hard because there is no real reward (for yourself) by doing so. This ensures inefficiency and low productivity levels. This also creates unfairness in itself, as people who don't do their best won't be punished for not doing their best.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Besides that, another reason for the lack of productivity on communist economies is the excessive governmental control. A bureaucratic system ends up by not managing to distribute all of the resources as required for a dynamic Economy to work.

[Errdoth]

Basicaly, everyone is equal and recieves the same wage, blah, blah, blah. Thus meaning, a brain surgeon will receive the same pay as a farmer and we have a rediculous rebellion on our hands.

 

 

 

Greed is human nature.

[yomom1919]

communism is basically a perfect society, but human nature creates its defects.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

capitalism is basically people that compete in an open economy for the higest pay (or capital). amierca is highly capitalistic, along with most of the developed world. in other words, the person who works the hardest earns the most for their well being, and for their use specificly.